Chameleon combo:

3,3,3,1,1,CS...3...(air) 1,1,2...1,1,3,4


Taven combo:

1,1,2,CS...B+2...(air) 1,1,2...1,1,3,4

It's more of a chance thing - If you let out a fire from above in an attempt to get them to block and you know that you're close enough - Take the free throw.

I've just read that guys posts on DavesMK and he really is a Kai fanboy! LOL I like him as a character cos it's a real challenge achieving a victory but Kai is nowhere near as good as this boy seems to think?!

He's not lowest-tier but he's certainly near the bottom of the list! At least I'm realistic about that

I think his throw does 16% (correct me if i'm wrong)

I never played Kai for real but from my little expercience, the dude is just better than Shang, Sindel, Kobra making him Mid-Low,low,lowX5 tier.

Kobra is much better than Kai . .trust me. Not sure about Sindel, might be close.

I swear Kobra has like no mids?

Kobra's sword stance alone has a lot of mids

3,4,2,2 <
down+2

His axe kick hits mid

Kickboxing>1 hits mid

I believe if you sidestep then do the flaming fist punch, it hits mid . .still trying to test this.

Kobra has been toned down a lot no doubt from Deception . .but I can make him better than everyone else thinks he is.

I've shown that with Taven, Stryker and Hotaru on xbox live.

I'm trying to perfect Deagon, but its very difficult.

Kai sucks a hella lot more than Kobra for sure. Without shorin ryu though kobra is suffering thats for sure. Does anyone know any combo above 40 for kabal?

i really cant find one...there was one on the mkevolution vid that was figgin hard to do....

it was
Sun Bin: 1,3..cs..1,1,4..cs..1,1,2,CS=42%

which i cannot do! the cs after the 1,1,4 is figgin impossible to do! lol

Some more Fujin combos that I've discovered recently are:

Tornado Wind, 2, 2, air funnel, jump and hit 1, 1, D+4, 1, 1, D+4=11 hits 33%

Tornado Wind, 2, 2, air funnel, jump and hit 1, 1, D+4, 1, 1, 3, 3=12 hits 34%

I also did a few wall combos ranging from 35%-38% but you won't get many opportunities to use them.......

Attack 1 in Kickboxing hits mid? Is that something just online or is it offline too? Hmm, surprised I missed that...Oh well, I just use Machete anyway.

To hjs-q or anyone else who can help - in that tier list explanation on the first page, hjs labelled Daegon and Nitara as low tier. I thought that Daegon was pretty good (mid tier) and Nitara is awesome. I know you said it has nothing to do with how I personally play with them, but I consider both of them to be stronger (especially Nitara) then some of those characters you said were high tier (Shinnok, Kung Lao).

So can somebody please explain to me why Daegon and Nitara are so bad, and also why Kung Lao and Shinnok are so good.

Thanks!

Nitara besides her throw has baisicly, nothing.

Deagon - Fu Jow Pai got toned down a bit, his swords are bad, special moves are meh, throw is bad................

Shinnok - The dude is awesome. All his best moves are listed in the first post.

You can get d,f+2 from any pop up and throw.

Kung Lao - SF d+3 f+1 1,1,3,cs Sword b+3 b+2 Dive kick, Hat, Throw.

Kung Lao and Shinnok can be considerd Mid-High High tier.

first of, d3 into f1 with lao isnt a combo. and just cause that dont make him good. he also has 2 113cs 112 for 40%, still doesnt make him good. b3 in sword is 100% punishable on blokc near any wall. his d1 and d3 are ok.

1133 doesnt hit mid. 33 is slow as hell. lao isnt even in top 20. sure u can win with him, dont make him top 20.

i can do 113cs 112 113cs4 112 cs113cs4 cs11f3 still dont make him upper tier.

I like nitara but as hjs said shes nothing without a throw.her moves are slow and she gets punished bigtime.
agianst bums she wins easily against good players she sucks.

deagon is basically got sindels old stance but toned down and sindel was pretty crap anyway so there your answer why.his swords are ok but quan chis are better.

all characters can win fights its just some win easier.

lot of love jasmin
xx

I was going to ask about Nitara and Daegon too though I was beaten to it.

Nitara has nothing aside from her throw? Are you sure about that?

As for Daegon, yeah, the Drakeswords are bad since almost all mids in it are crouch blockable (BTW, refer to my previous post regarding the crouch blockable mids as I suggest you edit your first post and add that bit in.). What's bad about his throw?

I thought Nitara had some pretty decent combos with her Kama Style. I mean its not great...but its not horrible either. So Havik is no longer low-tier? Yay!

I have made a thread concerning the open air ground combos. My purpose is to help people learn how to do some of the tricky combos that are hard to do. It is considered a part of "Gameplay Discussion" but I don't want to plug an entire doc in the middle of the discussion that is already taking place. If any of this is useful please read about it at this link:

http://mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=98013

Thanks Hjs, Jasmine-Jade and everyone else who helped out.

Nice job on the combo list, the videos, and the tier list. Just thought I should point out that you don't have reiko on the list. I don't mean combo's, but his name doesn't even pop up.

no mk mka patch :(
i asked them if it would be possible to patch the gameplay bugs in mka..

"Unfortunately it's difficult to patch the previous generation of consoles. Especially the PS2 since it lacks a hard drive. Patching the Xbox version, while possible, probably won't happen as it may be considered unfair to the PS2 users. Perhaps the Wii version will have corrected some of the issues you mention.

Thanks for your feedback"
and my response to that: "fixing it on the wii wont help anyone that got it for the ps2 and xbox now will it?"

so, now i guess the main sales pitch for mka on the wii willbe "come play are awesome fixed gameplay engine, even though you already spent your money on the crappy version!"

if they would do proper testing on their shit before releasing it, issues like this wouldnt exist.

SUB7TH ~ Daegon actually doesnt have any mids in weapon. also every attack can be parried.

but now on to HJQ Daegon is not low tier, hes mid tier.

how to win w/

DAEGON

FuJowPai is still a very good stance. we can no longer do 1 or 1,1,1 but we can now do 1,1 and 1,1,2.

1,1,2 can be parry canceled or Jump canceled.
1,1,2 = free throw

d+4 and d+3 cant be parried.
sadly d+1 can be this ruins FJP's low mix ups. the d+1 came out fast after the d+4 in mkd, d+4 then d+4 just isnt as fast as d+4 then d+1 is.

then theres the 50/50 mix up w/ d+4 into throw or b+2. also most folks will try to parry after you do d+4 wait then do 1,1,2 free throw.

overall a person should just use in FJP
1,1,2 ~ PC and JC able ~ also a free throw
b+2 PC and JC able
and d+4 also PC and JC able


his weapon stance is actually the better stance it allows him to turtle & all the attacks come out fast and hit from a distance. well the good ones atleast.

dont use any of the low pokes they all suck d+3 can be ok but it can be Parried.

B+4 is great at countering and hitting folks that love to jump in the air. (like say **Jerak** it air juggles him after he does all his moves hehehe )

1,1 is super safe off and online its just safe. mix it up w/ 1,1,2,4 NEVER do 1,1,3 your left wide open the 4 isnt safe but it doesnt leave you open for long. *note after 1,1 your foe can block the 2,4 attack .

now what should be used to counter some one attacks in weapon is 2,4.
2,4 leads into a free throw for 30%. 2,4 hits mid when they try to duck the free throw. i think this is called block break?? IDK.

now you might be thinking but he has no mids in weapon HE DOESNT NEED IT. he has one special worth using thankfully b,f+4 hits mid and recovers decently. also if you use this special from a distance you recover on contact and can PC or JC.


i dont think its possible unless your name is CHECK to ever do his combos online, this is the one area he lacks in which makes him mid tier.

overall hes one of the bunch of characters that are balenced. not over powering but no way weak like a jinko, shang or sindel.

Cool tidbits on Daegon's gameplay.

Btw, I thought Drakeswords did have mids except that they were crouch blockable.

A very good list. You are missing many mid tier chars and a top tier that I see, but that’s not for me to decide so I won’t mention it, because top tier chars have nothing to do with opinion or my play ability, so they should come out eventually.

Sub zero should NOT be top tier btw imo. His freeze that comes out of the ground is crap, and his normal freeze is way slower than it used to be. His clone is what keeps him mid tier, again, imo.

Mokap kombo: F+2,1,1 1,1 2,3,cs 46%


You might also note that handicap affects the combo calculations greatly. I know a chameleon combo that does 40% at normal damage and 65% at 70% handicapped damage...

Gaijin

Thx.

Sub is really top tier.

Shotokan -

d+4 is unparryble kick.

3 is mid safe and gives a free throw.

Weapon b+2 is also good.

Ice clone is awesome

Ice pillar is nice for projectile abusers.

Nice throw.


Sub can turtle, he has nice damage, mids, safeness, unparryble.

Everything.

sub's pillar is his second best special after the clone. He is definitely top tier.

I of course expect at he people named SUB-ZERO5512 to disagree with me. Its not that subbie cant pwn. Anyone who has been to any REAL tourneys can tell you that while a character is bottom tier, you can still own with them, all tier refers to is how many powerful moves a character has in comparison with some other characters. Sub has some great moves, and I MUSt agree with the guy who said he was a great turtle, imo its the only way to play him, the un-parrayable kick is great, and not something I was aware of, but when compared with the likes of noob or sareena, his amount of powerful moves is not as high as many others, that is why he is not top tier imo.

Hear what I am saying, yes you can PWN with sub zero, but I do not think his array of moves qualifies him for a top tier char...