Red, you are correct in saying that F+3 in MKD will beat an uppercut. But you are still thinking in terms of MKD. I have already stated that there were no INVIMCIBILITY frames in MKD, meaning that any QR attempt could be hit. In MKA, the wake ups cannot be hit by the aggressor, I repeat, cannot be hit by the aggressor. Knowing now that the wake up attack is invincible on start up, how are you going to hit someone out of it? The answer is..you can't.

The only thing that you can do is not attempt to follow up any moves that you have used to knock down an opponent, or just block the oncomming wake up. Even if the wake up only does 5% damage, that can mean the difference between a win and a loss if the time runs out, or if you are low on health. Remeber, I have played an early version of the game and even back in May, many of MKD's problems were resolved. They basically cut and pasted all of the repairs they made to the Gamecube version to fix the bugs, into MKA. No more F+3 and throw for Bo. If you try it, you will be thrown instead. It's too bad he was not selectable at that time, I would have loved to test it.

I think we should play each other on Day 1 when MKA comes out. I want you to use the MKD tactics that you're used to and see how well you do against the new features in the game. You will find that you will need to use new strategies against your opponent.


Peace

malone i understand what u are saying, but there are ways around everything, jutsu avoids all high hits, wake up uppercut, would wife right though jutsu.

plus all gameplay and what is changes once u go online, so how will the 5 frames differnce in lag time to real time affect all these things. like throw escapses if its 7 frames offline, that makes if either 2 or 12 online. and since one since has frame adv , proven, how will that effect the wake up.

just like the parry, since what on ur screen isnt whats on there is terms of distance, and moves, first hit will be hard to parry online.

I want to know if we can parry the low wake up kick?

Thanks Malone, Red misunderstood what I meant.Thanks for answering though.

As for the turtling game, as I said initially it's apart of the game which as you said there's nothing wrong with that, IMO it's a key part of the game especially with parries now in there.

For the dude that posted before me, I believe there's some kind of kick move besides the uppercut you can do on the wake up as you're coming from the ground, I thought I saw something like that in that Drahmin vs. goro vid.

Red, you are still thinking in terms of MKD's gameplay. If you tried to jutsu my wake-ups all the time, I'll just hit you with a low wake up attack, problem solved. Judging by my time with DOA4 online, wake-ups will be very effective online with MKA, lag or not. I believe the online portion will have adjusted frames to compensate for the inherent lag of the game. Either way, this game is not MKD. It may share similarities, but it is not the same game. Just wait until you feel how much better the game plays next month and you will see what I am talking about.

By the way, if I can parry online with Street Fightr 3: 3rd Strike, I'm sure I can parry in MKA online. I'm not worried about any lag. You will get used to the timing for the game.


Peace

SF3 online omg, man I got owned in that game by you.BTW, don't play this gentleman in that game unless you want to lose ^^ lol.

Remember that malone?I was doing some impressions to the t but it didn't matter lol.

Anyway, I think I'll do a lot better though since as you know I'm more of an exclusive MK buff, I'll play some other fighters but MK is the one I concentrate and give my all on all the time because I'm determined.

But if you play MK:A like you did SF 3 man, lol it'll be nothing like the Mileena from MK:D am I right?

You will be tough I predict in MK:A to play, should be fun!

BTW, how are parries performed in SF3 if you don't mind me asking man?I've been playing some SF 2 since that's my second favorite fighter next to MK.

MKF, no offense, but you made yourself look hella ignorant over the last 3 pages. Some of the things you say in reference to MK/Tekken literally make me roll my eyes and sigh.

Some of the stuff MasterMalone said was MKF-eque, too. It was weird.

Anyway, I said 2 months this game would be a turtle fest guys! Get ready for some clock running.

None of you take the clock off? Or is that not an option online?

Anyways, looks like Onaga will rock from that short vid, doesn't really look like Moloch could hold his own against him, all he was doing was 2 hits at a time or wtv. Hopefully he'll be worthwhile playing.

if this game is a turtle fest you can easily jump in looking like your going in for the attack but dont and your opponent will miss parry then you can punish. there will be so many ways around turtling just use your head.

not sure why people are worried about dairou

the glitch with dairou is you can be jumping before the ts drop is connected, and you wont leave the ground. the only way u will leave the ground is if you tap down before u jump aka jump cancel

this could have been caused by 2 things: sidestep, which locks the character onto the ground in mkd ( the down part of forward back down is the sidestep/ tracking) and the other, what else? LAG

but if you have trouble with ts any other way,you are a complete scrub, so just thought i should point that out,itll hit the ground slower now, just the question is: even if your holding jump, will you jump out of it in time or have to jump cancel?

we will see

LOL! I do remember playing you that day. I still lived in North Hollywood, CA back then . Those inpressions were top notch, I hope you take my advice and find an agent to promote you for voice work for television commercials or cartoons. You would be great.

To answer your question:
In Street Fighter 3, the parry is performed by tapping forward at the exact moment that your opponent hits you with an attack. To parry low attacks, you must tap down. You can parry multiple times as long as the attack is sustained, such as in the case of a multi-hitting move. When you attempt to parry in SF:3, you are effectively letting go of your guard and risking damage if you mis-time your parry attempt. You can also parry fireballs and any contact supers. You cannot parry throws or special command throws with the exception of Alex's Jumping Clothesline attacks. The only way to master the parry is to force your opponent to play by your rules and anticipate his next attack.


Peace

Not you too versatile.

Let me put it to you guys this way so that there is no more of this nonsense. My knowledge of fighting games should never be questioned by anyone here. I have been playing fighters competitively before most of you could could even read and write. Don't forget, I am 32 years old. The first competitive game I played was Street Fighter 2 back in 1990 at a 7-11 convenience store in Reseda, CA. I was in 11th grade at the time and I focused on learning that game until my hands exploded into mush. From then on, it was over. My love for fighting games grew immensely. I went on to play obscure games like Fighters History, World Heroes, Fuun Saiki, the orginal Guilty Gear, VF1-4, Tekken 1-3, Soul Calibur 1-2, All of the KOF series, the list goes on and on. I studied priorities of certain attacks even before people began discussing frame advantage/disadvantage.

I come from the camp that started using the term "2-in-1" which today means to "buffer". I was part of the group that made the distiction between chain combos and "links". I was there when the first guy came back from a tournament in Japan and introduced "Kara throwing/combo's" in SF:3. You may question my knowledge for some reason or another, but I advise you that it is vast in this subject so don't get it twisted.

My point is this:

Because I play at an arcade where 3D fighters are not viewd as "Superior", both you and m2dave have begun to make snive remarks about me, and it's not cool. If you go to Family Fun Time Arcade in Granada Hills, CA you will notice that the T5:DR cabinet is lonely while Street Fighter 3 is being played to death. Even whack ass games like Rumble Fish get more play there than T5 does. I'm not saying that T5 isn't a great game, what I'm saying is that I'm a product of my environment. I don't view T5 as a superior game in terms of play mechanics to Street Fighter at all. My opinion is my opinion and it should be left at that.

Like I told m2dave, I would never make funny remarks about you because I know better. I'm just asking for the same respect from you guys.

Peace

Anyone who thinks he knows absolutely everything about a subject and can't be taught anything by anyone else is an arrogant fool and deserves to be treated as such.

And who are you to say that nonsense?

You are a rude fellow, so you will be treated as such:

Unfortunately, your intelligence seems to be somewhat impaired, so I won’t be too harsh. However, had you read the post in its entirety and comprehended my sentences, you would have never posted such an unsolicited piece of slander of my character young man. My apologies for not reducing sentence structure in my post down to your reading and comprehension level. Never once in my post did I mention the phrase "I know everything there is on the subject and can no longer be taught anything by anyone else". I guess I will break down my post for the remedial MKO members such as you.

To the intelligent MKO members, you need not read the following, for you have already understood the original post:

I only meant that everyone who knows me already has an understanding of the level of knowledge I possess for fighting games in general. For someone like Versatile or m2dave, who both know me, to question my knowledge and even make funny remarks about me was somewhat disturbing. I was basically explaining my reason for not adoring Tekken as so many here do. Of course anyone can be taught new ideas, new material, and new ways of thinking. I am definitely no exception here.

I know this because I have to. I'm an Instructional Design Specialist for a mortgage company. My job is to employ the Adult Learning Theory for use in the development of training material that is facilitated to both existing and new employees. Of course I can be taught new things by anyone. I just recently learned that you're pretty damn rude. Anyway, you don't need to know my business, nor should you even care. The fact remains that my post really should have been none of your business. If I have offended you beforehand with my previous post, my apologies. But, since I know this to be untrue, you deserved this reply.

Peace

please dont cuss each other, were having a discussion, so just keep it at that

We're not questioning your knowledge of fighting games, but let's just leave that topic alone.

It's not arguably that VF4 is the most "technically perfect" 3D fighting game of all time. It's so perfect it's almost disturbing. The only "bad" part is the big time learning curve. I would never get into it because of that.

Tekken is more popular and played by more people across the world than VF for that very reason. It's not as brain-dead simple as MK, but also not as "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO DIFFICULT" as VF. It's a decently skillful fighter, and I personally do not bring it up because I think it's gameplay is the shit. I bring it up because it's gameplay is SOLID, something MK's gameplay has never been, and MK can benefit from having stuff implimented from that game as well as others.

mastermalone, I see that not only are you an arrogant individual, but an unpleasant and hypocritical one.

I am not the rude, obnoxious person who goes on Internet message boards and dictates to everyone that no one can question anything I say on a subject - that is you, as evident by your remarks. If you are going to make monumentally arrogant remarks like that then people will respond accordingly.

If, as you seem to claim, you simply have poor communication and writing skills and you didn't verbalise your thoughts coherently enough to make it clear what you were saying, then all you had to do was clarify yourself in a subsequent post.

You didn't. What you actually did was respond to my ONE LINE comment with a 5 paragraph, rambling, insult-strewn tirade.

I didn't even make my original comment about you - it was just a general comment. To which you responded with the kind of immature, ignorant, long-winded personal attack typical of your kind of angry, hateful, low intelligence message board poster.

From reading your posts it's clear you don't know everything about fighting games and perhaps more importantly, you know precious little about manners also.

(By the way - if you're going to spend 5 or 6 paragraphs insulting someone because they pointed out something you said, it's kind of pointless ending that post with 'Peace').

please stop with all the big words! my head hurts! lol


so you cant be hit during wakeup? so then if a guy is layin there on the ground..you couldnt..lets say, hellfire him? if you cant hit someone in wakeup with certin atacks, that will be a big mistake.

how so you ask? well, lets say i have 80% of my helth, and you have 50%. i get knocked to the ground and lay there til time runs out and get a cheap win...unless theres a time limit on how long you can lay on the ground.

This will be my last post to you because this is plain and simply ridiculous. I am one of the most civil members of MKO. I am also a very nice guy contrary to your belief. Let it be known that if you had never posted this quote:



I would have never replied to you with that "poorly written, poorly communicated post." One thing is certain; you clearly understood it, which is the reason you opted to match wits with me. I will assume at this point that my communication skills are not as inadequate as you make them out to be. Anyway, for you to state that your post was general in nature, and not directed towards me is not true. You deliberately quoted a portion of my post and responded with what you claimed to be general in nature. Whenever you quote someone, it normally insinuates that your comment is in regards to them, not the general public.

Understand that I do not question the knowledge of the game play aficionados such as Versatile, m2dave, HDtran, Tony the Tiger and maybe even you. I have no idea of what you know or do not know about fighting game aesthetics. Will I ever question you about what you know about fighting games? No, I would not, unless you have demonstrated a genuine lack of knowledge on the subject. I would then come in and politely add a comment to help boost your knowledge. Be advised that you should refrain from criticizing someone’s communication skills when your own leaves something to be desired.

This example of your communication skill does not convey a complete thought, and it is a run on sentence.

"If, as you seem to claim, you simply have poor communication and writing skills and you didn't verbalize your thoughts coherently enough to make it clear what you were saying, then all you had to do was clarify yourself in a subsequent post."

Do you mean that I claim to have poor written and communication skills? Do you also mean that I claim to lack the ability to "verbalize" my thoughts to clarify the meaning of my sentences? I have to admit, I had trouble with this one.

You may want to include semicolons to break your sentences up, or just create separate sentences all together. In closing I would like to say that you clearly attacked me with your original post. If you were not trying to include me with that "generalization", you should have phrased your post as follows:

"You make it seem as though you know everything there is to know about fighting games. There is always something to be learned about fighting games and no one will ever be the undisputable subject matter expert of fighting games."

That is a true statement which I will not dispute. You could have done without the words "arrogant" and "foolish" in your post. I would have never done that to you.

Take it easy.

I'm pretty sure there is a time limit. NOt 100% though. Also, I believe that if you just lay down, you can still be hit by some attacks. Example, hellflamers.

When you actually do a "get up attack" you are invulerable for a few frames, not when you are simply lying there.

If you can parry everything what's the point in attacking? Parrys = broke.

You have to have skill in order to predict your opponent's next move, not to mention parries must be timed correctly. If you don't time it right, you will be left open to an attack. With time you will develop skill with parries thus making your opponent and yourself think more strategically durring the match. This will prevent players from going on a mad rampage all day like they do in MKD.


Parries = Necessary.

Peace

Scrybe: parrys have been in many games in similar forms. They're only broken if they're too easy to do with out too much of a consequense for a miss. As mastermalone stated the balance for this in street fighter 3 was that if you mistimed a parry you ate the next attack. Judging by the lag time for the parrys in MKA I don't think throwing them out left and right would be wise. This all of course is totally neglecting throws.

Now before I continue I'd just like to state I play at about an average level and have played many of the fighters made to date. I am aware of high level play, how it works, and what to do in it, but I just find that I personally just need to spend too much time practicing at that point before it's fun. Now to continue I have a couple of questions and some general thoughts.

First question is what will the affect of the air combo system have on gameplay? Is it just an extension of dial a combo. Basically will it actually add more to the gameplay or is it just to make things look a little more interesting?

Second: Does anyone know how big the tweaks to the old movesets are going to be? I mean I know the tiers are guessing right now, but do you think they'll be almost the same, tweak out some of the more overpowered ones and buff the weak ones, or serious overhauls? It's seems to me like some characters especially are heavily screwed going into this if they don't get some major buffs in the move list are plus the lack of style change combos is a significat shift for the game itself. Well up to a point anyways.

Now for my general observations. First of all I do agree that with the serious problems DA and D the MK series really should borrow from maybe Tekken or the other 3D fighters. That said if it becomes too much like them I'll probably stop playing all together. MK needs to find balance in its own way. Currently my favorite 3d fighters are probably VF 4 for balance and SC 3 for general fun since Create a fighter is a good time killer. The problem is as stated with alot of games right now you start with a movelist of 30+ moves and combos. By the time you're done you're looking at about 5-10. This means you can get some pretty heavy tier differences in the game by the time it's all said an done. If MK needs to be balanced, but I'd like to see if it's possible for them to find a way without turning it into a 3 character, 30 move game total. I still doubt that's going to happen but it'd be nice.

Still the single biggest thing that's caused major problems for the last 2 is glitches and oversights. Scorpion in Pi gua in the first one was amazing thanks to back dash cancells. Glitches in the second along with 50/50 games make Bo Rai Cho a monster. They really need to catch these early on since they totally ruin the game. It's like the G22 glitch in Soul Cal.

As for the game becoming a turtle fest I guess it's possible. Really though I wouldn't guess too much this early, and that also kinda depends on what you consider a turtle fest. Basically high level play is usually defensive to a point with only safe combo's and moves being used(hence the 10 move list problem), but I really think we'll have to wait until it's out before we truely know.