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Icebaby
06/30/2014 12:48 AM (UTC)
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Onaga Wrote:
fYou're going to look at the story mode they put together and tell me they really do give more than a rats ass about the story to their fighting game?
Look I like a good story in my games and I think it is just as important as the gameplay(depending on the game and the creators intention). The thing is, NRS doesn't. Nor do the rest of the fighting game developers. They made their intentions clear to us with MK2011. The story, the characters, that's not one of the main focuses of these games, it never was and we are just kidding ourselves with all of these discussions about depth and progression.


If Netherrealm Studios didn't care about their story, they wouldn't have given us a story mode at all. The way you're talking about it makes it seems that they just wrote something within a day and splat it into the game.

They might not be the best writing team, but I can honestly say they do care about their story.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 03:08 AM (UTC)
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riomarz Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


Her story isn't all about Kitana. It is about the deception brought upon by yes posing as Kitana, but only because she was ordered to do so to distract the edenian armies. But in doing so she realized the power she had and what seizing the armies gave her the ability to do. She is not focused on finding her or killing Kitana, she steps up to higher goals in these games when she finally gets in a position of opportunity.

Her history with Kitana before deception is the only relevance Kitana has in her story, which is only depicted to set up context for Mileena's actions.



The connection between Mileena and Kitana is always there though. All the time, Mileena is posing as Kitana. She hasn't stepped out of Kitana's shadow at all.


But understand why she is doing that and what it gets her.

Her storyline is not as shallow as "omg I want kitana's life and pretend I'm her forever and live in fantasy land"

It's her using what she is to her advantage and gaining resources.
Everyone thought "mileena" was improsoned at the time so she did what she had to. She is not focused on Kitana at all at this point. If she were she could just go try to kill her and live forever as her. It's called being smart and strategic and her knowing that if she reveals her identity as mileena the forces wouldn't follow her.

Yes mileena and Kitana are always connected, but that doesn't mean mileena is always in her shadow. They HAVE to mention this in her story so it makes sense as to why she is able to fool the armies, otherwise who would know. Mileena's story and direct relationship with the character Kitana herself is not there in these games, so how can she be in her shadow? "O cuz she looks like Kitana so she's kitana's shadow."

Reach further.




Also All the Armageddon non canon endings are ridiculous. Tanya a dragon caller, jade with a random scream power that opens pyramids, Kitana and her BFF li mei who never interacted before in a heroic girl justice group.





You're kidding me right? Everything she did in deception was to get back at Kitana LOL

"My hatred for Kitana consumes my every thought. But Baraka tells me that his new lord, the Dragon King, has possession of Kitana's body and uses it as his personal bodyguard. My only chance for revenge against her will be to serve Onaga and pose as the Princess, leading her precious alliance of Edenia and Outworld to their doom."

The girl is so stuck faaaaaar up Kitana's ass all she thinks about is killing her and getting back at her Thats the ONLY reason she posed as Kitana and took over her army. Anyone would be stupid to think that she's in her shadow because "oh she looks like her blah blah blah" its deeper than that, so who's reaching for what now?

Now i loooooove me some mileena It Truly is a tie between her and Kitana but i sort of lean more towards Mileena because i feel a little bad for her in all honesty. So im rooting for her return in MKX cuz now THAT will be the game where hopefully kitana is a non factor in any decision she makes, the mk9 retcon is sorta making sure of that. Mileena's time to get out of Kitana's shadow is now or never at this point.

so anyone saying that Mileena's whole purpose of posing as kitana was for herself, sorry to say but you may be a bit delusional. not to be a dick though just stating facts :)


Ok first let's get something clear. The argument is that mileena is in kitana's shadow in these two games. That implies that Kitana is overshadowing mileena. You are arguing that Kitana plays a larger role in both games and had a bigger impact and outshined mileena in both deception and Armageddon? Did Kitana even have a bio in Armageddon? I'm confused now because of the hundreds of fans who bitch about mileena being overrated and marketed as the poster girl for mk since MKD and having a larger role in the konquests but she was still in kitana's shadow somehow? Ok.

Congratulations for reading the backstory of mileena's mindset UP TO the point where she is in deception. (Update on the character since mk gold) How many years had it been since she was in the game? It's called plot context and serves as a story refresher. The plot of deception serves as her transition away from Kitana and Armageddon she continues as her own character without Kitana.


She commanded the armies to distract them for Onaga as ordered to aid him time finding the komidogu, but when she realized the authority she had over the armies, she shifted her mindset towards herself and her thirst to rule. She admits to keeping up the Kitana disguise until she corrupts the soldiers enoiugh to where they would follow her as mileena and seize outworld herself. She is hardly and in now way "up kitana's ass" this entire time.

Never did she ever attack or attempt to kill Kitana. So if you speak of "stating facts" then make sure yours are correct first.

"I do not relish serving Shao Kahn. I am destined for greater things. An entire realm was once in the palm of my hands - and I will not rest until I regain that status! " (but she has no desire to rule for herself and is completely still at this point, according to you, obsessed with Kitana).

And to bring it back to the original topic, this is why mileena is not in kitana's shadow. Kitana was a stale character in deception and Armageddon and was played out while mileena's story was written away from the sinking ship that was Kitana and transition to a character that had her own agenda and goals.

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riomarz
06/30/2014 05:07 AM (UTC)
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Ok first let's get something clear. The argument is that mileena is in kitana's shadow in these two games. That implies that Kitana is overshadowing mileena. You are arguing that Kitana plays a larger role in both games and had a bigger impact and outshined mileena in both deception and Armageddon? Did Kitana even have a bio in Armageddon? I'm confused now because of the hundreds of fans who bitch about mileena being overrated and marketed as the poster girl for mk since MKD and having a larger role in the konquests but she was still in kitana's shadow somehow? Ok.
So perhaps i misused the phrase "in her shadow". so i apologize. but shes still stuck up her ass just like scorpion is stuck up sub zero's

Congratulations for reading the backstory of mileena's mindset UP TO the point where she is in deception. (Update on the character since mk gold) How many years had it been since she was in the game? It's called plot context and serves as a story refresher. The plot of deception serves as her transition away from Kitana and Armageddon she continues as her own character without Kitana.
whether it be story refresher, plot context whatever you feel like calling it, it does not negate the fact that her only reason for going through with posing as kitana was to get back at her. thats it there was no "oh im gonna do this for the soul purpose of gaining power for myself and do this for me" no! she clearly states she wanted revenge end of story. it wasnt up until further through ( basically the very end of deception) she realized that she could actually stop posing as kitana to control the army as Herself. But her soul reason for even doing all of this was to get revenge.... for kitana..... again..... so congratulations yourself... need a step stool for that reach over there?


She commanded the armies to distract them for Onaga as ordered to aid him time finding the komidogu, but when she realized the authority she had over the armies, she shifted her mindset towards herself and her thirst to rule. She admits to keeping up the Kitana disguise until she corrupts the soldiers enoiugh to where they would follow her as mileena and seize outworld herself. She is hardly and in now way "up kitana's ass" this entire time.
And never did i ever deny this... but again... she wanted revenge. Thats what drove her to do this and get to that point. so yea... pretty stuck up there if you ask me...

Never did she ever attack or attempt to kill Kitana. So if you speak of "stating facts" then make sure yours are correct first.
of course she never attacked or tried to kill her in those games the bitch was already dead lol and being used as a body guard. so instead she chose to get back at her through other means, by controling her forces so... revenge.... again....


"I do not relish serving Shao Kahn. I am destined for greater things. An entire realm was once in the palm of my hands - and I will not rest until I regain that status! " (but she has no desire to rule for herself and is completely still at this point, according to you, obsessed with Kitana).
And to bring it back to the original topic, this is why mileena is not in kitana's shadow. Kitana was a stale character in deception and Armageddon and was played out while mileena's story was written away from the sinking ship that was Kitana and transition to a character that had her own agenda and goals.



kitana did get a little stale.. or a lot... wont argue there.
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riomarz
06/30/2014 05:10 AM (UTC)
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^^^^ holy cow what the heck did my phone do?.. awkward.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 06:13 AM (UTC)
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No the main purpose of her seizing or distracting the armies was to buy time for Onaga and his army while he attempted to fuse the kamidogu. It wasn't all just about revenge against Kitana, just extra incentive for a recently freed mileena. . But revenge against her wasn't what kept her doing it.

For your reference, Her bio in which she talks about being consumed with hate for Kitana is written from her point of view during the time period she was imprisoned to the point that Baraka frees her and tells her of the opportunity that presents itself with Onaga in charge. (Before she actually sets out and poses as her). So is she obsessed over her during this time period? Obviously. But NOT during the events of deception which take place after her Bio card POV is written. No where does it state this was her mindset throughout the plot.. In fact her Armageddon bio clearly states her aspirations grow beyond Kitana during these events.

Any Kitana-revenge related intentions become background during the events of deception, in which she is finally given the opportunity to rule. You can't argue that she is constantly strung up about Kitana up until the Armageddon battle thing. Kitana makes up about 10% of the big scheme plot line of mileena. (Basically the first five minutes of the 2 hour movie)

I don't need to reach for anything, it's obvious MIleena is not in Kitana's shadow nor was bound by a revenge plot against Kitana.
It's clear they wrote her plot as more than a revenge plot.


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oracle
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06/30/2014 07:26 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
And to bring it back to the original topic, this is why mileena is not in kitana's shadow. Kitana was a stale character in deception and Armageddon and was played out while mileena's story was written away from the sinking ship that was Kitana and transition to a character that had her own agenda and goals.
Bless this fan fiction.
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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 07:51 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:

I don't need to reach for anything, it's obvious MIleena is not in Kitana's shadow nor was bound by a revenge plot against Kitana.
It's clear they wrote her plot as more than a revenge plot.




If you wish to believe that, then alright.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 09:13 AM (UTC)
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oracle Wrote:

Bless this fan fiction.


Jaded-Raven Wrote:

If you wish to believe that, then alright.


Sounds like something I would say if I had no argument either.
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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 09:23 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:

Jaded-Raven Wrote:

If you wish to believe that, then alright.


Sounds like something I would say if I had no argument either.


The proof has already been shown to you. However, you interpret it differently than I do, and that's alright. I don't need to argue with you, you have already set your mind and instead of trying to convince you otherwise, I just accept that you think differently. However, I still disagree with you for the reasons already stated.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 10:03 AM (UTC)
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What proof?!

Please I would love to know how you interpret Kitana playiing a larger part in deception and Armageddon and how she overshadowed mileena. Oh wait, here is your logic:

Jaded-Raven Wrote:
You're missing the whole point of Mileena's MKD-MKA story then.

Mileena's whole purpose in those games was to pose as Kitana. She convinced the Edenian army that she was indeed Kitana and got high on that power which made her arrogant enough to think she could best the Dragon King's army and forever POSE AS KITANA!!!

Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


There is so much incorrect or mistaken in your understanding of these events.
However, I do love the irony of the first line.
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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 10:21 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:

What proof?!


If you've read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see the proof given to you. Also, if Mileena is so independent from Kitana, why do you discuss her in a Kitana thread? :P
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martin_m95
06/30/2014 10:39 AM (UTC)
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Why the f*ck does this thread still exist.
It's already proven that Kitana is not underdeveloped at all.
All I see now is offtopic stuff being discussed in it.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 11:05 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:

What proof?!


If you've read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see the proof given to you. Also, if Mileena is so independent from Kitana, why do you discuss her in a Kitana thread? :P


1. I'm discussing her In her because your comments YOU made about mileena and her inability to carry a story herself would annoy any mileena fan.

2. You are confusing mileena being independent of Kitana the character (which she is in these games as they have zero interaction) and mileena being independent of her looks/being the clone of Kitana (which no she's not, but that's her whole character, just as much as being princess of edenia is to Kitana or being god of thunder is to raiden).

And no there is never going to be a time where she isn't the clone of Kitana. Is that the point you are trying to make? But there is a time that her character conflict moves past Kitana and towards larger schemes.

3. For an example of a character being in kitana's shadow, see Jade.


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Chrome
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06/30/2014 11:10 AM (UTC)
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martin_m95 Wrote:
Why the f*ck does this thread still exist.
It's already proven that Kitana is not underdeveloped at all.


Yeah, she has double size D-cup bazongas and all! Werd.
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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 02:15 PM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:

What proof?!


If you've read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see the proof given to you. Also, if Mileena is so independent from Kitana, why do you discuss her in a Kitana thread? :P


1. I'm discussing her In her because your comments YOU made about mileena and her inability to carry a story herself would annoy any mileena fan.

2. You are confusing mileena being independent of Kitana the character (which she is in these games as they have zero interaction) and mileena being independent of her looks/being the clone of Kitana (which no she's not, but that's her whole character, just as much as being princess of edenia is to Kitana or being god of thunder is to raiden).

And no there is never going to be a time where she isn't the clone of Kitana. Is that the point you are trying to make? But there is a time that her character conflict moves past Kitana and towards larger schemes.

3. For an example of a character being in kitana's shadow, see Jade.




And unlike you, I don't deny that my favourite character is in Kitana's shadow. Because alongside Mileena, Jade is as well. I'm not going to go on a tangent, trying to convince people otherwise, because that's the truth for both Jade AND Mileena.
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oracle
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06/30/2014 05:36 PM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
3. For an example of a character being in kitana's shadow, see Jade.
Or Mileena.
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RedSumac
06/30/2014 06:27 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
And unlike you, I don't deny that my favourite character is in Kitana's shadow. Because alongside Mileena, Jade is as well. I'm not going to go on a tangent, trying to convince people otherwise, because that's the truth for both Jade AND Mileena.

I doubt it is the case right now. Starting with MKD, MK-Team did everything possible to make Mileena stand out more from Kitana and I think they succeded. She is no more in Kitana's shadow, however, she is still far from the most popular femeale character of the series.

Jade hasn't received such development, so being somewhat overshadowed by Kitana is completely normal for her.
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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 06:29 PM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
And unlike you, I don't deny that my favourite character is in Kitana's shadow. Because alongside Mileena, Jade is as well. I'm not going to go on a tangent, trying to convince people otherwise, because that's the truth for both Jade AND Mileena.

I doubt it is the case right now. Starting with MKD, MK-Team did everything possible to make Mileena stand out more from Kitana and I think they succeded. She is no more in Kitana's shadow, however, she is still far from the most popular femeale character of the series.

Jade hasn't received such development, so being somewhat overshadowed by Kitana is completely normal for her.


It was a step in the right direction, that I agree on.
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mkmileena
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06/30/2014 06:48 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:

What proof?!


If you've read the last few pages of this thread, you'd see the proof given to you. Also, if Mileena is so independent from Kitana, why do you discuss her in a Kitana thread? :P


1. I'm discussing her In her because your comments YOU made about mileena and her inability to carry a story herself would annoy any mileena fan.

2. You are confusing mileena being independent of Kitana the character (which she is in these games as they have zero interaction) and mileena being independent of her looks/being the clone of Kitana (which no she's not, but that's her whole character, just as much as being princess of edenia is to Kitana or being god of thunder is to raiden).

And no there is never going to be a time where she isn't the clone of Kitana. Is that the point you are trying to make? But there is a time that her character conflict moves past Kitana and towards larger schemes.

3. For an example of a character being in kitana's shadow, see Jade.




And unlike you, I don't deny that my favourite character is in Kitana's shadow. Because alongside Mileena, Jade is as well. I'm not going to go on a tangent, trying to convince people otherwise, because that's the truth for both Jade AND Mileena.


Ok to end this I'll just reply as you have been doing since you seem to think condescending dismissals work best.

You can't deal with reality, but we all have opinions although yours in greatly misguided. Unlike you I don't deny character that's a don't like the credit they deserve, but I won't go on a further tangent about it since you can't back your argument up with anything else than bias. I agree we think differently and if you chose to believe the world is flat that is ok too. But bless your edenian pride, it's cute.




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wdm6789
06/30/2014 08:18 PM (UTC)
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Why can't we all just stay cordial when we debate?

Jade and Mileena are supporting characters.

I love them both, but they are the Joe and Quagmire to Kitana's Peter.

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Jaded-Raven
06/30/2014 08:23 PM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
Ok to end this I'll just reply as you have been doing since you seem to think condescending dismissals work best.


I merely responded in kind with your replies.
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Shadaloo
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06/30/2014 08:50 PM (UTC)
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Onaga Wrote:

Look I like a good story in my games and I think it is just as important as the gameplay(depending on the game and the creators intention). The thing is, NRS doesn't. Nor do the rest of the fighting game developers. They made their intentions clear to us with MK2011. The story, the characters, that's not one of the main focuses of these games, it never was and we are just kidding ourselves with all of these discussions about depth and progression.


The MK series has, from day one under John Tobias, put a hell of a lot of focus into crafting its own mythology, far more than your typical fighting game. We've gotten to the point where backgrounds have their own stories. This is really not up for debate, man.
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oracle
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06/30/2014 08:54 PM (UTC)
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wdm6789 Wrote:
Why can't we all just stay cordial when we debate?
Have you ever been in a Kitana thread?
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Benetnasch
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06/30/2014 09:38 PM (UTC)
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It's difficult to made/construct a story for a character like Mileena, who was a secondary character for 12 years, and make her the most complex/intriguing female character in a few games; that's just ridiculous. Besides this, Kitana is a strong character in the entire saga, the lead female with a amazing fanbase. She continue to be central in the story and portrait of Mortal KOmbat as videogame. To rivalize with a character as popular as she is, as Scorpion or Sub-Zero in certain way, is not easy, and Mileena is a new favourite, not an old one.

Like it or not, Mileena is the only female since MKDA who receive a proper treatment, a robust background and the best revamp of the entire serie (her deception revamp, of course). Both Kitana and Sonya, the lead females for the first períod of the saga, pale in front of the development of Mileena since MKD, even count MK9. Jade and Tanya, other fan favourites, vaguely exist. Mortal KOmbat can continue without Jade, for example, but Mileena's or Kitana's absences will gonna be notorious.

If someone want to take the beautiful, graceful and (for us, her fans) astonishing reboot (in some sense) of Mileena's portrait since MKD and transform her in a mere shadow of Kitana, as Mileena was between MK2-MKG, fine by me. There is no proof in this topic, just mere interpretation. Mileena is the lead promotion female since MKD, more than Sonya or Kitana. And Kitana, however, is still more popular than Mileena. It's not easy compete with Mortal Kombat's history (and no story!)

Anyway: I hope Mileena and Kitana make the cut in MKX. The rest of females (except a in a few aspects) are almost accesories. With Cassie, the Sonya-spot has taken. Just one more thing: Mileena's fans are getting repetitive marking the underdevelopment of Kitana in everygame and the complexity of Mileena; Jade's fans are getting repetitive marking the underdevelopment of Mileena in everygame; Sonya's fans are gettin repetitive marking she was the first lady of the game; Kitana fans are gettin repetite marking the amazing fanbase of her favourite character as a valid argument to made her the most important character of Mortal KOmbat -looks like they are short of arguments, he-. Maybe the discussion could be a little bit more constructive if we put aside this originary and totally "objective" axioms in order to discuss the evolution of the character's story, personality, desires, relations, her importance for the saga overall and/or aesthetics. It would be nice
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wdm6789
07/02/2014 01:36 AM (UTC)
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Benetnasch Wrote:
It's difficult to made/construct a story for a character like Mileena, who was a secondary character for 12 years, and make her the most complex/intriguing female character in a few games; that's just ridiculous. Besides this, Kitana is a strong character in the entire saga, the lead female with a amazing fanbase. She continue to be central in the story and portrait of Mortal KOmbat as videogame. To rivalize with a character as popular as she is, as Scorpion or Sub-Zero in certain way, is not easy, and Mileena is a new favourite, not an old one.

Like it or not, Mileena is the only female since MKDA who receive a proper treatment, a robust background and the best revamp of the entire serie (her deception revamp, of course). Both Kitana and Sonya, the lead females for the first períod of the saga, pale in front of the development of Mileena since MKD, even count MK9. Jade and Tanya, other fan favourites, vaguely exist. Mortal KOmbat can continue without Jade, for example, but Mileena's or Kitana's absences will gonna be notorious.

If someone want to take the beautiful, graceful and (for us, her fans) astonishing reboot (in some sense) of Mileena's portrait since MKD and transform her in a mere shadow of Kitana, as Mileena was between MK2-MKG, fine by me. There is no proof in this topic, just mere interpretation. Mileena is the lead promotion female since MKD, more than Sonya or Kitana. And Kitana, however, is still more popular than Mileena. It's not easy compete with Mortal Kombat's history (and no story!)

Anyway: I hope Mileena and Kitana make the cut in MKX. The rest of females (except a in a few aspects) are almost accesories. With Cassie, the Sonya-spot has taken.

Just one more thing: Mileena's fans are getting repetitive marking the underdevelopment of Kitana in everygame and the complexity of Mileena; Jade's fans are getting repetitive marking the underdevelopment of Mileena in everygame; Sonya's fans are gettin repetitive marking she was the first lady of the game; Kitana fans are gettin repetite marking the amazing fanbase of her favourite character as a valid argument to made her the most important character of Mortal KOmbat -looks like they are short of arguments, he-. Maybe the discussion could be a little bit more constructive if we put aside this originary and totally "objective" axioms in order to discuss the evolution of the character's story, personality, desires, relations, her importance for the saga overall and/or aesthetics. It would be nice


Well then.

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