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zerosebaz
06/27/2014 12:43 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:


T-rex Wrote:

I think that we can both agree when I say that more than any other fighting game franchise out there, MK has the potential to be a sprawling dark fantasy epic that could easily carry a full-blown RPG on the scale of Mass Effect. With a team of good writers, the universe, the lore and characters are developed enough and expansive enough to support it. So then use it. Develop it further. Do something with it, for fuck's sake!

I agree with that, though I believe, MK can become much more without fucking overdramatizing everything and turning characters into permawoobies. That is what I want.


I agree.

I feel MK9 added a lot of unnecessary drama to the table. All of KItana's "arch" feels really overdramatic, and it's not something that happened only in the storymode, but you can see it in some bios and endings as well. Take Sonya as an example, we got that story with her missing dad so she is now all about daddy issues. I hope they reduce that kind of things in the next game.



RedSumac Wrote:


However, since it's nigh impossible, I take what I can. Mindless hatred is not the way to go, especially in case of something that you have zero influence on. You can rage for all you want, but its doubtful that WB will take MK seriously and turn it into second Star Wars or something. They were not able to release Comic Book series about it or make a damn movie, which was supposedly in preproduction for the last 3 years. So, there is no reason to expect MK becoming something "more". More it's as sad as it's real.


Yeah, that is sad but true. The people writing the MK storyline have been almost the same for a long time now, so I don't think we'll get a change in the quality of the things we are getting. What I would love to get again which has been lost for some time is those tiny bits of information you would find scattered around the Krypt back in MKD and MKDA. Little things like knowing the story behind Moloch's chainball or Shang's ship were cool. It let you get some more knowledge about the world and helped with that idea of having a really broad universe.


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riomarz
06/28/2014 06:15 AM (UTC)
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i dont think she was underdeveloped at all in the old timeline cant exactly say the same with the new one though... But i honestly think that kitana was underdeveloped because there was a lack of Mileena and the whole sibling rivalry... Which pisses me off a bit cuz they murdered not just Kitana's story but Mileena's as well (who got the worst end of the stick).

Honestly from the very beginning of the story mode all they had to do was basically swap Jade with Mileena and throw some dialogue between the two and have jade pop up every now and again leading to her chapter where she goes on her mission to save kitana...

kitana and mileena was the biggest thing i was looking forward to with mk9 and they disappointed me with their retcon TT~TT
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wdm6789
06/28/2014 02:01 PM (UTC)
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riomarz Wrote:
i dont think she was underdeveloped at all in the old timeline cant exactly say the same with the new one though... But i honestly think that kitana was underdeveloped because there was a lack of Mileena and the whole sibling rivalry... Which pisses me off a bit cuz they murdered not just Kitana's story but Mileena's as well (who got the worst end of the stick).

Honestly from the very beginning of the story mode all they had to do was basically swap Jade with Mileena and throw some dialogue between the two and have jade pop up every now and again leading to her chapter where she goes on her mission to save kitana...

kitana and mileena was the biggest thing i was looking forward to with mk9 and they disappointed me with their retcon TT~TT


^

I agree, except I did like Kitana and Jade being the throne candy. Would all three of them (Kitana, Jade, and Mileena) standing up there by Shang and Shao Kahn's thrones be too much?

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RedSumac
06/28/2014 06:25 PM (UTC)
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riomarz Wrote:
i dont think she was underdeveloped at all in the old timeline cant exactly say the same with the new one though... But i honestly think that kitana was underdeveloped because there was a lack of Mileena and the whole sibling rivalry... Which pisses me off a bit cuz they murdered not just Kitana's story but Mileena's as well (who got the worst end of the stick).

As was proved in MKD, Mileena can have a good story without Kitana.
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oracle
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06/28/2014 07:03 PM (UTC)
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Except her story in that game was being Kitana. MKX will be the true test tbh.
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riomarz
06/29/2014 01:24 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
riomarz Wrote:
i dont think she was underdeveloped at all in the old timeline cant exactly say the same with the new one though... But i honestly think that kitana was underdeveloped because there was a lack of Mileena and the whole sibling rivalry... Which pisses me off a bit cuz they murdered not just Kitana's story but Mileena's as well (who got the worst end of the stick).

As was proved in MKD, Mileena can have a good story without Kitana.


If that's truly the case then what happened with MK9... lol... not saying her story in deception was bad cuz it wasnt. Deception was definitely Mileena's Moment of shine. But Mileena's whole story revolves around kitana even while dead. Mileena's sole purpose in life was to replace her thats why she was created.

BUT with this whole retcon I think MKX will definitely be her moment of shine again and Since Edenia was never saved Mileena's story can actually not revolve around kitana cuz she wont have to do any pretending to rule and take over an army. this time she'll be ruling over outworld (hopefully, if she's in the game),
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RedSumac
06/29/2014 02:49 AM (UTC)
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riomarz Wrote:
But Mileena's whole story revolves around kitana even while dead.

It wasn't the case in MKD (and MKA by extension). Mileena was finally, for the first time ever, her own character and Kitana wasn't much of a factor. And whatever the purpose she has been created with, it shouldn't limit her possible character development and be a permanent factor in the her story.
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RazorsEdge701
06/29/2014 04:52 AM (UTC)
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oracle Wrote:
Except her story in that game was being Kitana.


I'm not the one who posted it, Sumac. That means you have your own permission to actually fucking read it.
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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 08:18 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
riomarz Wrote:
But Mileena's whole story revolves around kitana even while dead.

It wasn't the case in MKD (and MKA by extension). Mileena was finally, for the first time ever, her own character and Kitana wasn't much of a factor. And whatever the purpose she has been created with, it shouldn't limit her possible character development and be a permanent factor in the her story.


You're missing the whole point of Mileena's MKD-MKA story then.

Mileena's whole purpose in those games was to pose as Kitana. She convinced the Edenian army that she was indeed Kitana and got high on that power which made her arrogant enough to think she could best the Dragon King's army and forever POSE AS KITANA!!!

Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.
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mkmileena
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Ethereal, ravenous, piercing. It's Mileena bitch.

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06/29/2014 10:00 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


Her story isn't all about Kitana. It is about the deception brought upon by yes posing as Kitana, but only because she was ordered to do so to distract the edenian armies. But in doing so she realized the power she had and what seizing the armies gave her the ability to do. She is not focused on finding her or killing Kitana, she steps up to higher goals in these games when she finally gets in a position of opportunity.

Her history with Kitana before deception is the only relevance Kitana has in her story, which is only depicted to set up context for Mileena's actions.

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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 10:15 AM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


Her story isn't all about Kitana. It is about the deception brought upon by yes posing as Kitana, but only because she was ordered to do so to distract the edenian armies. But in doing so she realized the power she had and what seizing the armies gave her the ability to do. She is not focused on finding her or killing Kitana, she steps up to higher goals in these games when she finally gets in a position of opportunity.

Her history with Kitana before deception is the only relevance Kitana has in her story, which is only depicted to set up context for Mileena's actions.



The connection between Mileena and Kitana is always there though. All the time, Mileena is posing as Kitana. She hasn't stepped out of Kitana's shadow at all.
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RedSumac
06/29/2014 11:53 AM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
You're missing the whole point of Mileena's MKD-MKA story then.

Mileena's whole purpose in those games was to pose as Kitana. She convinced the Edenian army that she was indeed Kitana and got high on that power which made her arrogant enough to think she could best the Dragon King's army and forever POSE AS KITANA!!!

Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.

Nope.
Mileena in MKD maybe is posing as Kitana, but it figures less then expected in her story. It's just an element of it. What matters is that her personal story have nothing to do with Kitana. She is not trying to usurp her place, kill her or something else. She doesn't care about Kitana in those games and fulfills her own plans. Basically her story has nothing to do with Kitana. Her MKA bios states, that she is waiting for the moment, when Edenian army will be corrputed enough, so she can rule them as Mileena. She is no more Kitana's shadow at this point. She finally grows as her own person and MKA bios just proves it.

And using MKA endings as prove of anything...is a mauvais ton.

Just in case:
Mileena Wrote:

I had planned to continue my charade until the Edenian forces could be corrupted enough to follow me as Mileena, the true conqueror of Outworld. But my plans were foiled when the fortress was attacked — Shao Kahn had returned!...
...I do not relish serving Shao Kahn. I am destined for greater things. An entire realm was once in the palm of my hands — and I will not rest until I regain that status! Though it will be impossible to rule Outworld now that Shao Kahn has returned, there are other realms ripe for the taking. Edenia will be mine!
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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 11:55 AM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
She is not trying to usurp her place


That is EXACTLY what she is doing!
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RedSumac
06/29/2014 02:17 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
That is EXACTLY what she is doing!

But, this is exactly what she is done in MKD, already!!
After that she aims to stop disguise herself as Kitana.
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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 03:37 PM (UTC)
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RedSumac Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
That is EXACTLY what she is doing!

But, this is exactly what she is done in MKD, already!!
After that she aims to stop disguise herself as Kitana.


Which fails and then her MKA ending once more shows how much in Kitana's shadow she is.
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mkmileena
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06/29/2014 06:35 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


Her story isn't all about Kitana. It is about the deception brought upon by yes posing as Kitana, but only because she was ordered to do so to distract the edenian armies. But in doing so she realized the power she had and what seizing the armies gave her the ability to do. She is not focused on finding her or killing Kitana, she steps up to higher goals in these games when she finally gets in a position of opportunity.

Her history with Kitana before deception is the only relevance Kitana has in her story, which is only depicted to set up context for Mileena's actions.



The connection between Mileena and Kitana is always there though. All the time, Mileena is posing as Kitana. She hasn't stepped out of Kitana's shadow at all.


But understand why she is doing that and what it gets her.

Her storyline is not as shallow as "omg I want kitana's life and pretend I'm her forever and live in fantasy land"

It's her using what she is to her advantage and gaining resources.
Everyone thought "mileena" was improsoned at the time so she did what she had to. She is not focused on Kitana at all at this point. If she were she could just go try to kill her and live forever as her. It's called being smart and strategic and her knowing that if she reveals her identity as mileena the forces wouldn't follow her.

Yes mileena and Kitana are always connected, but that doesn't mean mileena is always in her shadow. They HAVE to mention this in her story so it makes sense as to why she is able to fool the armies, otherwise who would know. Mileena's story and direct relationship with the character Kitana herself is not there in these games, so how can she be in her shadow? "O cuz she looks like Kitana so she's kitana's shadow."

Reach further.




Also All the Armageddon non canon endings are ridiculous. Tanya a dragon caller, jade with a random scream power that opens pyramids, Kitana and her BFF li mei who never interacted before in a heroic girl justice group.



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RedSumac
06/29/2014 07:09 PM (UTC)
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mkmileena Wrote:
But understand why she is doing that and what it gets her.

Her storyline is not as shallow as "omg I want kitana's life and pretend I'm her forever and live in fantasy land"

It's her using what she is to her advantage and gaining resources.
Everyone thought "mileena" was improsoned at the time so she did what she had to. She is not focused on Kitana at all at this point. If she were she could just go try to kill her and live forever as her. It's called being smart and strategic and her knowing that if she reveals her identity as mileena the forces wouldn't follow her.

Yes mileena and Kitana are always connected, but that doesn't mean mileena is always in her shadow. They HAVE to mention this in her story so it makes sense as to why she is able to fool the armies, otherwise who would know. Mileena's story and direct relationship with the character Kitana herself is not there in these games, so how can she be in her shadow? "O cuz she looks like Kitana so she's kitana's shadow."

Reach further.




Also All the Armageddon non canon endings are ridiculous. Tanya a dragon caller, jade with a random scream power that opens pyramids, Kitana and her BFF li mei who never interacted before in a heroic girl justice group.




You got it!!

In MKD her story is not about desire to replace Kitana, revenge against Kitana and is not about Kitana in general. Aside from Mileena posing as Kitana her story doesn't have nothing to do with her, and Mileena does whatever she wants to do. How her story ended in MKA is unknown.

Well she dies, of course, but what had happened before...it would have been interesting if part of the Edenian troops still willingly followed Mileena's command, even if Kitana had returned, fully aware that Mileena is not their princess.

And as I said before - there is no rhyme nor reason for using MKA endings as proof of anything. Most of them are completely disconnected from general story and characters themselves.
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Onaga
06/29/2014 07:23 PM (UTC)
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Why do we(you) care? Who cares about character development anymore with MK?
Ed and the team made it loud and clear with the last game that they don’t and that the majority of the people posting in this thread have been liking Mortal Kombat for all the wrong reasons.

It's just a fighting game with some characters with some silly little bios to justify why these "people" are punching one another in the face. There is hardly any thought or sub text with these and anything there is, we just invented. It's just a fighting game. *shrugs* the story doesn't matter.
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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 07:40 PM (UTC)
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Onaga Wrote:
Why do we(you) care? Who cares about character development anymore with MK?
Ed and the team made it loud and clear with the last game that they don’t and that the majority of the people posting in this thread have been liking Mortal Kombat for all the wrong reasons.

It's just a fighting game with some characters with some silly little bios. There is hardly any thought or sub text with these and anything there is, we just invented. It's just a fighting game. *shrugs* the story doesn't matter.


If NRS didn't care, they wouldn't make such an elaborate Story Mode.
The whole "the story doesn't matter" arguement is such an archaic way of thinking. In today's world, the story is as much a part of videogames as the gameplay is.
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Onaga
06/29/2014 07:46 PM (UTC)
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Onaga Wrote:
Why do we(you) care? Who cares about character development anymore with MK?
Ed and the team made it loud and clear with the last game that they don’t and that the majority of the people posting in this thread have been liking Mortal Kombat for all the wrong reasons.

It's just a fighting game with some characters with some silly little bios. There is hardly any thought or sub text with these and anything there is, we just invented. It's just a fighting game. *shrugs* the story doesn't matter.


If NRS didn't care, they wouldn't make such an elaborate Story Mode.
The whole "the story doesn't matter" arguement is such an archaic way of thinking. In today's world, the story is as much a part of videogames as the gameplay is.


You're going to look at the story mode they put together and tell me they really do give more than a rats ass about the story to their fighting game?
Look I like a good story in my games and I think it is just as important as the gameplay(depending on the game and the creators intention). The thing is, NRS doesn't. Nor do the rest of the fighting game developers. They made their intentions clear to us with MK2011. The story, the characters, that's not one of the main focuses of these games, it never was and we are just kidding ourselves with all of these discussions about depth and progression.
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Jaded-Raven
06/29/2014 07:53 PM (UTC)
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Onaga Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Onaga Wrote:
Why do we(you) care? Who cares about character development anymore with MK?
Ed and the team made it loud and clear with the last game that they don’t and that the majority of the people posting in this thread have been liking Mortal Kombat for all the wrong reasons.

It's just a fighting game with some characters with some silly little bios. There is hardly any thought or sub text with these and anything there is, we just invented. It's just a fighting game. *shrugs* the story doesn't matter.


If NRS didn't care, they wouldn't make such an elaborate Story Mode.
The whole "the story doesn't matter" arguement is such an archaic way of thinking. In today's world, the story is as much a part of videogames as the gameplay is.


You're going to look at the story mode they put together and tell me they really do give more than a rats ass about the story to their fighting game?
Look I like a good story in my games and I think it is just as important as the gameplay. The thing is, NRS doesn't. Nor do the rest of the fighting game developers. and that's why we get a scene like the Sindel slaughter.


Yes, I look at it and can honestly say that yes, they do care.
Just because you don't like it doesn't change that.
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Spider804
06/29/2014 08:50 PM (UTC)
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Obviously they do care about it as MK is the closest to a coherent story, or a story in general, in a video game series to date. They just have an odd way of showing it.
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RedSumac
06/29/2014 11:22 PM (UTC)
0
Onaga Wrote:
You're going to look at the story mode they put together and tell me they really do give more than a rats ass about the story to their fighting game?
Look I like a good story in my games and I think it is just as important as the gameplay(depending on the game and the creators intention). The thing is, NRS doesn't.

Hey, whatta we have here?? Another whiner? How surprising and original.

I'd say they do give more shit about story than you do in a bathroom after a hefty supper. They do make their intention clear - to familiarize newcomers with the basics of the story and wipe the state clear from stuff they did after MKDA. If you don't like it then do us (people who liked MK9 and have faith in NRS) a favor - don't go into story discussion threads and don't spoil them with your hatred. Our quota of snobby critics-wannaby is already filled to a brim, thank you.
And please get rid of stupid havbit of saying "WE". Nobody have authrized you to speak on behalf of all fans of MK. There is no "WE" There is only "YOU". Remember that. Please and again, thank you.
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riomarz
06/29/2014 11:50 PM (UTC)
0
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
mkmileena Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
Her story is all about Kitana in those games. Even her MKA ending is all about her and Kitana switching bodies, so Mileena would keep on posing as her.


Her story isn't all about Kitana. It is about the deception brought upon by yes posing as Kitana, but only because she was ordered to do so to distract the edenian armies. But in doing so she realized the power she had and what seizing the armies gave her the ability to do. She is not focused on finding her or killing Kitana, she steps up to higher goals in these games when she finally gets in a position of opportunity.

Her history with Kitana before deception is the only relevance Kitana has in her story, which is only depicted to set up context for Mileena's actions.



The connection between Mileena and Kitana is always there though. All the time, Mileena is posing as Kitana. She hasn't stepped out of Kitana's shadow at all.


But understand why she is doing that and what it gets her.

Her storyline is not as shallow as "omg I want kitana's life and pretend I'm her forever and live in fantasy land"

It's her using what she is to her advantage and gaining resources.
Everyone thought "mileena" was improsoned at the time so she did what she had to. She is not focused on Kitana at all at this point. If she were she could just go try to kill her and live forever as her. It's called being smart and strategic and her knowing that if she reveals her identity as mileena the forces wouldn't follow her.

Yes mileena and Kitana are always connected, but that doesn't mean mileena is always in her shadow. They HAVE to mention this in her story so it makes sense as to why she is able to fool the armies, otherwise who would know. Mileena's story and direct relationship with the character Kitana herself is not there in these games, so how can she be in her shadow? "O cuz she looks like Kitana so she's kitana's shadow."

Reach further.




Also All the Armageddon non canon endings are ridiculous. Tanya a dragon caller, jade with a random scream power that opens pyramids, Kitana and her BFF li mei who never interacted before in a heroic girl justice group.





You're kidding me right? Everything she did in deception was to get back at Kitana LOL

"My hatred for Kitana consumes my every thought. But Baraka tells me that his new lord, the Dragon King, has possession of Kitana's body and uses it as his personal bodyguard. My only chance for revenge against her will be to serve Onaga and pose as the Princess, leading her precious alliance of Edenia and Outworld to their doom."
The girl is so stuck faaaaaar up Kitana's ass all she thinks about is killing her and getting back at her Thats the ONLY reason she posed as Kitana and took over her army. Anyone would be stupid to think that she's in her shadow because "oh she looks like her blah blah blah" its deeper than that, so who's reaching for what now?

Now i loooooove me some mileena It Truly is a tie between her and Kitana but i sort of lean more towards Mileena because i feel a little bad for her in all honesty. So im rooting for her return in MKX cuz now THAT will be the game where hopefully kitana is a non factor in any decision she makes, the mk9 retcon is sorta making sure of that. Mileena's time to get out of Kitana's shadow is now or never at this point. so anyone saying that Mileena's whole purpose of posing as kitana was for herself, sorry to say but you may be a bit delusional. not to be a dick though just stating facts :)
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wdm6789
06/30/2014 12:33 AM (UTC)
0
riomarz Wrote:
"My hatred for Kitana consumes my every thought. But Baraka tells me that his new lord, the Dragon King, has possession of Kitana's body and uses it as his personal bodyguard. My only chance for revenge against her will be to serve Onaga and pose as the Princess, leading her precious alliance of Edenia and Outworld to their doom."


I was impartial in this debate until I saw this.

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