Im really worried about my Subby

•06/16/2014 05:55 PM (UTC) •

RoyalChakra Wrote:
You know? I have to say I now understand how you Sub-Zero fans feel. If my favorite was replaced with some other than who I'm used too I would be upset too. I get it now....

Thanks for thinking it through man. Really do appreciate it.

•06/16/2014 06:59 PM (UTC) •

Quakeman Wrote:

AJAX75 Wrote:
This thread is a perfect example of how MK fans hate and despise change. Kuai Lang was Sub-Zero for a long time, and I appreciate that he has a large fan-base, but you guys just have to accept that there could be someone else filing the role of Sub-Zero. This is the perfect time to do it, seeing as Kuai Lang is dead and there is no visible sign of him coming back anytime soon. I've always assumed that Sub-Zero was simply a role that someone would play until they either died or gave it up and I've always assumed that there were hundreds of people outside Bi-Han's and Kuai Lang's family that were cyromancers, Frost being a prime example. Boon has said twice now that Sub-Zero is simply a role for someone to fill, and both times he strongly hinted that it was someone new filling the role.

Trying to make Batman and Bruce Wayne similar to Sub-Zero and Kuai Lang is useless, as Bruce Wayne was the creator of Batman and will always be the man behind the role, whereas Kuai Lang did not create Sub-Zero and will probably not always be the role. Just because he was featured the most times as Sub-Zero doesn't make the role his and his alone. What I find funny is that the person behind the role of Sub-Zero in this game has already been decided, and none of you can change that. I admit, I felt like NRS were going to go the cheap and lazy way by somehow resurrecting Kuai Lang and making him Sub-Zero again, but I personally hope that Kuai Lang stays a Cyborg and I hope he can become his own character, just like Bi-Han and Noob became their own character. NRS have grown some balls since MK9, and it's clear that they are willing to displease a few fans in order to really shake the foundations of MK and really give us something new. It's unfortunate that the people who they're displeasing are complaining the hardest. I mean, look how long it took for people to calm down about new characters, and now a new wave of fans have found something new to complain about.

Anyway, to the people who are general fans of Sub-Zero, the role is still in the game, so be happy that your favorite title is back once again. For people who are fans of Kuai Lang, accept that some characters need a break, and god forbid Kuai Lang needs a LONG break. The guy's been in every fucking MK game (except the first) and I think he's long overdue for a rest. Let someone else take the role and actually give the new guy a chance before you shit on him and continue crying about Kuai Lang. But who am I kidding, the people on this thread will read this post and then 50% of them will ignore it once they realize I don't agree with them and just go back to spewing the same three points they've been banging on about for the last five pages, but I don't care. I've given my two cents and I'm out. Have fun wallowing in this shit storm.

Well it's no surprise to me that you might get ignored. You think you're special just because you're saying everything every other Subby hater on this thread have said a little bit differently? You literally have said nothing new. It's no fucking surprise that Sub-Zero is in the game. He will be in every MK game there is weather it's Kuai or not. This whole thread was created because I was just wondering if Kuai Liang would even be in this game at all and to me and i'm sure most Sub-Zero fans, he IS Sub-Zero.
Though at this point I'm not even sure if I want this Sub-Zero to be Kuai Liang, if he ends up being sinister. Also this Sub looked far more Chinese than Kuai in that reveal trailer. Kuai always had more of an American appearance since MK3. I'd rather have no character than character assassination, but we'll just have to wait and see.

I really don't understand the anger in the Subby haters, especially that dude with the Mileena avatar. Did Kuai kill your grandmother or something?

Yeah he's not even supposed to be Chinese to begin with his mother is American, and his father being a cryomancer technically is Outworldian. He stole both brothers and took them to the LK which is Located in China doesn't make them Chinese. Thats why i don't partically like calling them Kuai and Bi-han, in my eyes He will always be John Turk ( the actor who played both brothers) Just like John Turk said in MKDA extra features "The kid is playing Sub-Zero ( YSZ) and he doesn't realize im standing right behind him"

Before anyone says it i have nothing against Asians, just stating that they aren't Asians. oh and @ quakerman Projectzero just has an issue with most fans wanting YSZ to be Sub-Zero i don't why it bothershim and others, but i guess it's a sin to like what you like. go figure.

RedSumac

@RedSumac

•06/16/2014 07:08 PM (UTC) •

Quakeman Wrote:
I really don't understand the anger in the Subby haters, especially that dude with the Mileena avatar. Did Kuai kill your grandmother or something?

I already have stated in this very thread, that I don't have any problems with Sub-Zero, whoever he is. I don't like that he was a bit of Marty Sue since MKDA, but that's far from actual hate, just dissatisafaction with how MK-team handled character.
My only problem is with his fans, who tend to overreact and infect all other threads with their annoying cries.

And that's not Millena on my avatar. This character not even from Mortal Kombat.

Viser Wrote:
You know what i meant Sumac, and i might be in the minority on this but i still prefer to call him John.

I think you should start calling him George. And also start to pet and hug him.
It will not acomplish anything, but add creepyness. Some people are into that.

Human-Sub-Zero-4-ever Wrote:
I'm going to lose respect for NRS completely.

I think they'll get over it. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

OptimusGrime Wrote:
Probably. And why not? What, when all is said and done, would be the point of a reboot if the series followed the same path after the fact?

I attempt to explain this very thing to the people since 2011...but they still believe that next MK game will retell MKDA to a "T". Go figure.

Quakeman Wrote:
Also this Sub looked far more Chinese than Kuai in that reveal trailer. Kuai always had more of an American appearance since MK3. I'd rather have no character than character assassination, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Two things: in MK2 Kuai was clearly chinese.
In MK9 vignette both Bi-Han and Kuai Liang were described as being from chinese family. Their american heritage was not mentioned in any capacity, so it's safe to assume, that in MK9 they are just chinese, not half-american, half-chinese as in original timeline.
Bottom line: It will not be the first time, when characters chnage their etnicity in MK. And making assumptions about character behind the mask based on that - is rather pointless.

•06/16/2014 07:13 PM (UTC) •

RedSumac Wrote:

Quakeman Wrote:
I really don't understand the anger in the Subby haters, especially that dude with the Mileena avatar. Did Kuai kill your grandmother or something?

Viser Wrote:
You know what i meant Sumac, and i might be in the minority on this but i still prefer to call him John.

I think you should start calling him George. And also start to pet and hug him.
It will not acomplish anything, but add creepyness. Some people are into that.

Human-Sub-Zero-4-ever Wrote:
I'm going to lose respect for NRS completely.

I think they'll get over it. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

OptimusGrime Wrote:
Probably. And why not? What, when all is said and done, would be the point of a reboot if the series followed the same path after the fact?

I attempt to explain this very thing to the people since 2011...but they still believe that next MK game will retell MKDA to a "T". Go figure.

I mean John as in John Turk the actor who played both brothers. Why must you twist it around sigh.

Icebaby

@Icebaby

•06/16/2014 07:19 PM (UTC) •

How in the world is Sub-Zero a Mary Sue? Do you even know the term behind that name?

•06/16/2014 07:20 PM (UTC) •

Mary sure has "lore armor" and is just great from the start without having to grow as a person. So again Sumac is just trolling.

•06/16/2014 07:31 PM (UTC) •

RedSumac Wrote:

Quakeman Wrote:
I really don't understand the anger in the Subby haters, especially that dude with the Mileena avatar. Did Kuai kill your grandmother or something?

Viser Wrote:
You know what i meant Sumac, and i might be in the minority on this but i still prefer to call him John.

I think you should start calling him George. And also start to pet and hug him.
It will not acomplish anything, but add creepyness. Some people are into that.

Human-Sub-Zero-4-ever Wrote:
I'm going to lose respect for NRS completely.

I think they'll get over it. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

OptimusGrime Wrote:
Probably. And why not? What, when all is said and done, would be the point of a reboot if the series followed the same path after the fact?

I attempt to explain this very thing to the people since 2011...but they still believe that next MK game will retell MKDA to a "T". Go figure.

I wasn't referring to you, I was talking about the psychic guy or whatever his name is.

RedSumac

@RedSumac

•06/16/2014 07:42 PM (UTC) •

Icebaby Wrote:
How in the world is Sub-Zero a Mary Sue? Do you even know the term behind that name?

Yes, I do. I don't have habit of using terms I am not familliar with.
And in his case its Marty Sue.

Viser Wrote:
Mary sure has "lore armor" and is just great from the start without having to grow as a person. So again Sumac is just trolling.

Boo-hoo-hoo. Such an angry fanboy. Let your subby-hubby warm you a glass of milk. Or cool it...

Sub-Zero was a good example of Marty Sue by virtue of receiving constant and unneccessary upgrades in every game and at the same time, not having any significant plot relevance to the main story arcs. He was just getting more powerfull without much character development and any effect on anything.

•06/16/2014 07:42 PM (UTC) •

Interesting that you call him John, I always just called Kuai Subby or Sub-Zero and Bi-Han, just Noob Saibot or the elder Sub-Zero. The name Bi-Han is just adorable to me for some reason though. Also I completely agree about the whole cycromancer father thing.

And Sumac, even if they totally disregarded the fact that his mom was American in MK9, he still looks way more American in MK9 than in MKX (judging only by the who's next trailer)

About Me

•06/16/2014 07:51 PM (UTC) •

Pet names for Sub Zero? I feel like I've wondered into that weird part of fandom again...

There is clearly no logic to be discussed or found in this thread. Just talking in circles. Change is very very bad, apparently. Even the prospect of having Kuai Liang as a separate character from Sub-Zero isn't good enough. I'm kinda feeling Ed Boon's plight.

Oh he gets paychecks to deal with this shit? Nevermind then. haha

•06/16/2014 07:56 PM (UTC) •

DjangoDrag Wrote:
Pet names for Sub Zero? I feel like I've wondered into that weird part of fandom again...

There is clearly no logic to be discussed or found in this thread. Just talking in circles. Change is very very bad, apparently. Even the prospect of having Kuai Liang as a separate character from Sub-Zero isn't good enough. I'm kinda feeling Ed Boon's plight.

Oh he gets paychecks to deal with this shit? Nevermind then. haha

You clearly have a strange definition of "weird" considering the much odder conversations talked about on this site and around the gaming community. Clearly just goofing around.

And again, never said having Kuai Liang be a separate from Sub-Zero wasn't good enough, just strange to think about.

About Me

•06/16/2014 08:03 PM (UTC) •

Like I've said, Kuai returning to life and removing all the cybernetics as possible, leaving him a scarred and disfigured mess, would be a fascinating progression of his character, showing his unbreakable will and determination. Perhaps then he chooses to reform the Lin Kuei. Or even better, he chooses to leave the clan behind and make his own path alone.

Then we would have a similar situation to MK9, having both a Sub Zero character, and a Kuai Liang (Cyber Sub) character.

Chrome

@Chrome

About Me

•06/16/2014 08:12 PM (UTC) •

•06/16/2014 08:20 PM (UTC) •

RedSumac Wrote:

Icebaby Wrote:
How in the world is Sub-Zero a Mary Sue? Do you even know the term behind that name?

Yes, I do. I don't have habit of using terms I am not familliar with.
And in his case its Marty Sue.

Viser Wrote:
Mary sure has "lore armor" and is just great from the start without having to grow as a person. So again Sumac is just trolling.

There is no hope for having a normal conversation with you. I am done speaking to you. You are just a jerk for no reason behind a keyboard, and thats it.

•06/16/2014 08:22 PM (UTC) •

I think you misunderstood i refer to him as sub-zero just his real name i always considered John because of the actor who played him , and bi han. Look it up John turk

About Me

•06/16/2014 08:33 PM (UTC) •

Viser Wrote:

I think you misunderstood i refer to him as sub-zero just his real name i always considered John because of the actor who played him , and bi han. Look it up John turk

No, dawg. I get it. It's like calling Liu Kang Hung So Pak or Scorpion Daniel Pesina.

John Turk is not Sub's real name. He's just a dude that played him once or twice. I'm pretty sure that Carlos Pesina has played Sub-Zero way more than Turk, through mocap.

Calling him John Turk is pretty KooKooRoo.

•06/16/2014 08:35 PM (UTC) •

DjangoDrag Wrote:

Viser Wrote:

I think you misunderstood i refer to him as sub-zero just his real name i always considered John because of the actor who played him , and bi han. Look it up John turk

I guess you have point. played umk3 so much in my life just got used to "him" as the vision of Sub-Zero

Siroj

@Siroj

About Me

•06/16/2014 08:44 PM (UTC) •

Okay, I have to ask this since it's been 'bugging' me for some time now. Does it matter, in the end, who the man behind the mask is? I'm sure that almost everyone became a fan of Sub-Zero because of his moveset and looks, rather than his personality. Sure, the personality gives some flavor, but it's not the main reason you like Sub-Zero.

So what if this Sub-Zero is someone entirely new? He still plays like Sub-Zero. Will you suddenly stop liking the character and the way he plays, simply because he's not Kuai Liang?

Now my guess is that this Sub-Zero is neither Bi-Han nor Kuai Liang. I'm not going to like him any less (or more) because of it. Why should you?

I keep reading this nonsense about Kuai Liang being the 'real' Sub-Zero. Let's not forget that he only became Sub-Zero after his brother died. And I'm sure that his brother got that title after the previous Sub-Zero died. Either they're all the 'real' Sub-Zero, or none of them are.

So yeah, you need to stop holding on to the past and embrace whatever NRS is going with... otherwise you're going to end up unhappy, and the only person who's going to feel bad is you... and that's just silly.

About Me

•06/16/2014 08:47 PM (UTC) •

Siroj Wrote:
Okay, I have to ask this since it's been 'bugging' me for some time now. Does it matter, in the end, who the man behind the mask is? I'm sure that almost everyone became a fan of Sub-Zero because of his moveset and looks, rather than his personality. Sure, the personality gives some flavor, but it's not the main reason you like Sub-Zero.

So what if this Sub-Zero is someone entirely new? He still plays like Sub-Zero. Will you suddenly stop liking the character and the way he plays, simply because he's not Kuai Liang?

Now my guess is that this Sub-Zero is neither Bi-Han nor Kuai Liang. I'm not going to like him any less (or more) because of it. Why should you?

I keep reading this nonsense about Kuai Liang being the 'real' Sub-Zero. Let's not forget that he only became Sub-Zero after his brother died. And I'm sure that his brother got that title after the previous Sub-Zero died. Either they're all the 'real' Sub-Zero, or none of them are.

So yeah, you need to stop holding on to the past and embrace whatever NRS is going with... otherwise you're going to end up unhappy, and the only person who's going to feel bad is you... and that's just silly.

Like I've said, I'm actually PSYCHED at the prospect of getting a new Sub-Zero. I think a big part of what makes the character so interesting is the Legacy factor. I hope this new one is entirely unlike either of the previous two we have seen.

projectzero00

@projectzero00

About Me

•06/16/2014 09:06 PM (UTC) •

Lokheit Wrote:

projectzero00 Wrote:

Lokheit Wrote:

projectzero00 Wrote:

Lokheit Wrote:

He died, yes. So did Jax, Johnny Cage, Sonya Blade, Kung Lao and Kitana at the end of Deadly Alliance.

Exactly my point. Did Jax, Johhny, Sonya, Kung Lao and Kitana return for Deception? No.

Kitana returned (MK Unchained is Deception for PSP). They were found fighting for the bad guys on multiple endings and Liu Kang's spectre and Ermac helped with getting them to the good guys side again. At least 1 of them was playable, all of them were alive on the story and in the continuation of the story all of them were alive and playable without any scratch or mark.

And even if Kitana wouldn't have returned, the point is still there: characters have died before

You just don't get it. It's not a matter of if they were playable. Sub Zero is already playable, that wasn't what we were discussing! It's a matter of STORY. Storywise they were dead. As is Sub Zero. And he is back. I know that. I know that characters can be brought back. What the discussion was about, was WHO this Sub Zero is. And if they decided to kill a major character like Kuai, you can deff expect some changes in the next game. Exactly like what happened with all those characters in MKDA you listed.

I don't get the logic of your argument.

Those 5 characters died (in fact it was almost like MK9, most of the heroes dying in the same battle).

Next game they were already alive and 1 of them was playable.

That's what happened and they killed 5 major characters at the same time just to make them return.

I don't get the logic on your argument about how this can't happen again...

You said "expect some changes in the next game. Exactly like what happened with all those characters in MKDA you listed". But what happened with all those characters that I listed is that in the next game story they were all already alive and unscratched and one of them was playable. So if your argument is that the exact is expected to happen, then you're supporting that they will all return with that argument because that's exactly what happened.

No my argument wasnt about them being alive and what not. I meant that the team killed them in MKDA and even if they were ressurected later, they weren't playable in the next game. Whenever they kill someone in a game, 90% they don't return in the next game. Sometimes they make a cameo, but most of the time they aren't playable. That's what makes me think that even though Sub Zero is back, he probably isn't Kuai Liang. He might be, all we can do is speculate. It's just my personal opinion that they wouldn't have killed him if they didn't have sth big in mind for the next game. I already had the idea that they might bring another Sub Zero if he was human again in the next game, and Boon already hinted it in one of his interviews. And you remember what happened a few years ago when he hinted a new character being cybernated...

RedSumac

@RedSumac

•06/16/2014 09:44 PM (UTC) •

Quakeman Wrote:
And Sumac, even if they totally disregarded the fact that his mom was American in MK9, he still looks way more American in MK9 than in MKX (judging only by the who's next trailer)

I don't remember both Sub-Zero faces being shown without a mask, save for vignette, where they were depicted as children. So, I conclude that your argument doesn't have much basis.

If you take Sub's MK3 retrocostume as an example, than I must dissappoint you - it was specifically created as a homage to his MK3 appearance and probably doesn't have nothing to do with how Sub-Zero face actually looked in the game.
Besides, it's quite odd that Sub-Zero looks partially caucasian if both of his parents were chinese.

DjangoDrag Wrote:
Oh he gets paychecks to deal with this shit? Nevermind then. haha

More like free session with psychotherapist and vitamins. I would've need it, if I had to deal with such fandom on daily basis.

Viser Wrote:
There is no hope for having a normal conversation with you. I am done speaking to you. You are just a jerk for no reason behind a keyboard, and thats it.

There is possible to have normal conversation with me. For a normal logical person, that is. But since obsessive and illogical fanboys are quite removed from that definition, I must admit: we won't be able to have a normal conversation.
Boy, I think it's the only time when we agree on something. What an odd feeling...

Siroj Wrote:
Okay, I have to ask this since it's been 'bugging' me for some time now. Does it matter, in the end, who the man behind the mask is?

Oh, ou. More gasoline for the fiery party. Or should it be more nitrogen for the ice cold festival? Either way, thnigs can explode any minute now...

•06/16/2014 09:50 PM (UTC) •

RedSumac Wrote:

Quakeman Wrote:
And Sumac, even if they totally disregarded the fact that his mom was American in MK9, he still looks way more American in MK9 than in MKX (judging only by the who's next trailer)

DjangoDrag Wrote:
Oh he gets paychecks to deal with this shit? Nevermind then. haha

More like free session with psychotherapist and vitamins. I would've need it, if I had to deal with such fandom on daily basis.

Viser Wrote:
There is no hope for having a normal conversation with you. I am done speaking to you. You are just a jerk for no reason behind a keyboard, and thats it.

Siroj Wrote:
Okay, I have to ask this since it's been 'bugging' me for some time now. Does it matter, in the end, who the man behind the mask is?

Oh, ou. More gasoline for the fiery party. Or should it be more nitrogen for the ice cold festival? Either way, thnigs can explode any minute now...

Sorry for liking a character, and feeling passionate about it? Anyway thats fine you don't need to speak to me, all you're doing is trying to put me down for liking something. Carry on. You really are douchebag to people just because they are fans of character. Also i don't want to be that guy, but i promise you that you'd never run your mouth to people like you do here in person.