At least it'll refresh their rivalry. 'Cause so far Sub-Zero was only defending and generally was "meh" about their conflict. If both of them would actively oppose each other, instead assassin-victim dynamic, it possibly could serve for the benefit of both characters.

Ideally, I would have let go their conflict alltogether, because after so much time it is pointless and stale, but if NRS insists on its existence, at least there should be a way to make a bit more fiery. Turning both of them into enemies of each other could possibly do the trick. Once again, it's not an ideal solution as their conflict nowadays is forced beyond believe.

Besides, nothing stop anyone to have Sub-Zero and Kuai Liang as another character in the game at the same time.

Oh, and on the subject of Sub-Zero / Kuai Liang fandom. I find it hilarious as so called fans of Kuai Liang say, that he is "the most developed character in MK'verse" yet, actively oppose of the idea, that he can exist as something else, but "Sub-Zero". It kind of ridicolous if you think about. If you like the character for his development, wouldn't you still be a fan of this character if he further develops, but abandon some parts of his image?

What I mean, assuming Kuai Liang somehow returns from being cyborg and reappears, but not as Sub-Zero. He still has his personality and ideals intact, uses cryomancer powers, but just doesn't have ninja outfit and doesn't call himself "Sub-Zero". Yet, at the same time he receives great development and plays crucial part in the story. Now, I suppose, this so called Kuai Liang fans will throw a tantrum over it, which will really be hilarious: you like Sub-Zero, when he is Kuai Liang, but you can't accept Kuai Liang, when he is not Sub-Zero.

So what exactly you are fans of? Sub-Zero? But if he is not Kuai Liang, but otherwise identical, you are unsatissfied. Kuai Liang? But if he is not Sub-Zero, no matter how his character handled otherwise, you're still unsatissfied. So, you ARE NOT FANS of either character or his image, but closeminded bunch who can accept character only at certain condition, even if said condition limits character development and otherwise just a burden. Bottom line: this is the most ridicolous character fandom, I've encountered.


I don't have anything against any kind of Sub-Zero. Both Bi-Han and Kuai Liang are better developed characters than Scorpion and Sub-Zero is one of my favorite characters gameplay-wise in any MK...It's his salty admirers club I have problems with. And only with them. It would be a day, when I'll low myself to the point of having any kind of grudge against fictional character. LOL.
And nitpicking on my avatar? Seriously? What wrong with it?


No. Sub-Zero was introduced as a mere title. And it was brought up again in MK9. So, it is not stupid by any margin. It's not like the situation with Batman or Superman, who have been the same character for dozens of years.


OK, just as long as long as people like you stay confined in one single thread (and not make dozen of them) and will not run amok into the other threads wetting them with your salty tears about how your subby-hubby is not the same guy anymore.


Such matureness. Such manners. Ha-ha-ha. You are funnyman.

Never said I would be against Kuai being a different character other than sub-zero, it would just be odd. Then again a lot of strange things have happened since MK9.

Also mind you, there has been more than one batman.

Yeah see I was even kind of thinking about it in a batman sense. There are several characters who were interim batman, but we all know Bruce Wayne is the true one.

I see it like this with Kuai Liang, and on some level some of the writers must as well because they bring his ass back and they had him as batman's parallel in MKvsDC. Boon said that himself.

Now saying that this SUB ZERO is a completely new one... I'm worried about the story.

First of all... Why Scorpion is still after him... Probably for some idiotic reason

Second... If Ed is now talking about a sea of Sub Zeros at the Lin Kuei I dunno where the story about Cyromancers will go.

I knew there where different Sub Zeros at the Lin Kuei but I always expected to be connected by blood (grandpa, father, son, brother and so on)... Yeah even Frost

So it will be interesting to see how the new guy would be connected to them... And if not it would take the uniquness of Bi-Han and Co being cyromancers from outworld away

I'm actually worried for Kuai-Liang, as well. I sincerely hope he's not written off for a 3rd Sub-Zero in game. He's a great character outside of his identity as Sub-Zero.

I'm completely in support of MK's new characters, but I just hope they don't forget that their old ones have enormous fan-bases.

Mr Freeze confirmed

Yep, pretty much how i feel. I just hope we get some story elements revealed soon, but i doubt they'd tell us.

Glad you get it Scar! Exactly what I was saying. Hell I forgot Subby was like Batman's parallel. Very well said.

MKX's Sub-Zero is totally Frost disguising herself Mulan-style.

I know, but it happened only few decades after creation of the character. For the rest of the time Batman was Bruce Wayne. It's not like Sub-Zero who was changed after the first game and this change was constantly alluded throughout the whole series.


Well, there is a fact, that, if we go by original timeline, there were more cryomancers, than Bi-Han and Kuai Liang (and Frost). So they are already not unique by definition. They are just the ones we have seen.
And talking about Frost - she didn't has connection with Sub-Zeroes family, but had the same abilities as them. Basically, MK-Team already broke their uniqueness. And Frost was alluded to in MK9. As an Easter Egg, of course, but neverthless.


Hence he can exist as a great character outside of Sub-Zero identity. This can be sort of testament for his greatness.

I am worried as well but not necessarily about Kuai Liang,
I love Sub-Zero but was never a fan of the unmasked version. I though the masked version was always cooler. Mk 1 and trilogy were the mk i played the most.

I love Kuai Liang and his story it is a great character but I love Bi-Han as well, if it turns out that this Sub-Zero is Bi-Han i would have peace with it but I prefer it to be Kuai Liang, cause if it is Bi-Han then there is no Noob-Saibot and that is my second fav char :p

I just want it to be Kuai Liang or Bi-Han but plz no random new persone cause it is really stupid to say that there were many sub-zero and that the Lin kuei has a sea of sub-zero's cause that would imply the Lin-Kuei has the whole Cryomancer race hidden underground or somthing also it is just disrespectfull for everone who has followed the series and loved the characters that has become of the mk culture

I really am confused by Boon's words, i dont know if he is just being a troll, or clearly doesn't know the characters history.

Kuai has been carrying the Sub-Zero name for 6 games out of 7 at the time when Armageddon came out. Since MK2 came out in 1993, and Armageddon was released in 2006, that's just over a dozen years. For a video game franchise, that's a lifetime.

For all intents and purposes, Kuai Liang is Sub-Zero at this point, and Sub-Zero is Kuai Liang, just as Batman is Bruce Wayne.


So what you're essentially suggesting is that it's okay if some asshole warps back in time to the moment when Bruce's parents get shot. Only this time, his guy's time-fuckery leads to Bruce himself also getting shot and paralyzed from the waist down. So Bruce devotes his whole life to studying everything he can get his hands on and grows up to become the Oracle, and Batman is just some random kid he befriended and somehow convinced to join him on his crusade of vengeance while Bruce mentors him from his wheelchair.

You're saying that's okay.





Scorpion's gullibility and willingness to throw himself headfirst into another vendetta at the drop of a hat have practically made him into a running joke in the community by now. "Scorpion is not sharpest tool in shed, is he..?," we say.

Nobody wants to see him go back to being a perpetually angry asshole who punches first and asks questions never. The only person people want to see him stalk is Quan Chi, because that guy had it coming for a long-ass time.

How could making him antagonize Sub-Zero again (especially the exact same Sub-Zero that he's already killed once before) possibly work for the benefit of either of their characters?



Every time there's another trailer or a new piece of promotional material coming out that inevitably features Scorpion beating the shit out of Sub-Zero, someone inevitably asks: "So are Scorpion and Sub-Zero even rivals anymore..?" And then people who have been following the story groan and roll their eyes and explain that no, they actually haven't been rivals since the second game.

MK4 was the one time NRS actually tried to re-ignite that rivalry, and it fell completely flat. Most fans are still confused about what actually happened. They just remember that Scorpion turning vengeful again after everything he went through in the previous games was contrived and stupid.


So let me ask you, then:


If this Sub-Zero is a brand new character, what benefit could it possibly serve to have him start a rivalry with Scorpion? Do you think it's possible to have a Sub-Zero in this franchise who does not have a stupid rivalry with Scorpion? Or do you think it should be in the fucking job description to have Ghost Rider breathing down your neck as soon as you put on the blue uniform, regardless of whether or not you've done anything to personally offend him?

Is that what "moving the story forward" is supposed to look like?



And if this Sub-Zero is indeed a reformed Bi-Han, it'd be double stupid because it makes infinitely more sense to have Scorpion face him as Noob Saibot instead.

In his blind rage and unwillingness to break the circle of violence, he has succeeded only in making his murderer even more powerful. That's some powerful stuff. In comparison, having Scorpion face Bi-Han as Sub-Zero once again achieves nothing.

Not to mention that it would effectively erase the character of Noob Saibot from existence. I thought most people liked Noob. Are you one of the few who don't? Would you prefer to see him gone? Why?




What the hell kinda Kuai fans have you been talking to?

As long as Kuai is allowed to finally regain some semblance of dignity, it sure as hell sounds like a great idea to me.

Because reducing the most well-developed character in the OT to a walking refrigerator who gets punked out like a chump and ends up stuck in the shittiest realm of them all as a mindless zombie puppet is not just disgraceful, it's fucking offensive.


I'm a fan of well-written characters.

OT Kuai has been the shining example of that.


Removing the unquestionably best and most personality-defining parts of a character's biography and shoehorning him into a storyline dead end that prevents him from ever achieving the potential that we know he was capable of is not "handling him otherwise".

"Mishandling" is a better word.

As a Sub-Zero main I really don't mind if 'Sub-Zero' continues to be a title that is used by skilled Cryomancers in the LIn Kuei. The silly story really is second to how well he plays and his design; both of which are look fucking dope in MKX, so I'm happy.

You ever heard of Batman Beyond? Its way more than okay.

Seriously, T-Rex and RedSumac, your Batman comparisons are odd. There have been tons of Batmans. Jean Paul Valley and Dick Grayson come to mind. Not to mention Batman Inc. A group of international Wayne funded Batmen. Lets niot forget the rest of the Bat Family like Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Hood, etc. Bruce is Bats, but he's also very much a legacy character.

Aaaanyway, Sub Zero has always been a legacy title. Kuai Liang is just the most prominent holder that we have seen. Cryomancers are Outworld native, but they are not a single blood line. They are a race, albeit perhaps a dwindling one. Obviously, the Lin Kuei have rallied themselves in MKX after their (failed?) Cyber Initiative. Having a Sub Zero seems to be very important to the Clan's operations, so they seem to simoly have done what they did before our two known Sub brothers. They found and trained a Cryomancer.

There will be at LEAST one new Sub Zero in this game, and I am psyched to discover his plot. The Sub that we are seeing seems and sounds far more ruthless than Kuai's characterization has ever been.

Perhaps this one is just tired of all the bullshit, which would explain his new affection for chucking his clones at fools!

Well if the Lin Kuei have a sea of Sub Zero's hidden there I do not get the point about the Cyromancer story after all. Where are they all from?

As I said above... it would take away the uniquness of Kuai-Lang, Bi-Han and every prior Sub Zero, who I think where all family of the brothers, away... I know Frost was there... But we never had the slightest clue, where she is from.

And if this is true... We could have a Cyber Sub Zero easily without having Kuai Lang transformed... Simply take one of the Cyromancers and transform him

Sorry to dissapoint you but there are many Sub Zeros in the Lin Kuei clan. Deception's Konquest proved it since there were multiple ninjas dressed exactly like Subby wubby. MKSM had them too. It was full of cryomancers. I get that you like Sub Zero and you want him to be the only Sub Zero in the game, but following the canon story doesn't make it disrespectful just coz you don't like it. It's like me saying that having multiple Mileenas in the fleshpits is impossible, while it is. Perfectly possible. And it's not disrespectful just becoz I would hate to have many clones. It's just how the storyline is.

Beautiful post. agreed 110%

AGain proving you don't know what you are talking about, because just because they were "dressed in blue" doesn't mean they were cryomancers. When did you ever see them using ice powers? never. They were dressed up in a way to honor Sub-zero the grandmaster, but they had no Cryo powers whatsoever.

What in the world are you talking about? You DO know that the Lin Kuei is not filled with members who are just cyromancers, right? We have Tremor.

I never said the Lin Kuei are JUST cryomancers. I am well aware of that. If it was just Sub Zeros we wouldn't have Smoke, Sektor, Cyrax who obviously don't share Kuai Liang or Bi-Han's powers. I was refering to him saying that the Lin Kuei isn't filled with Sub Zeros, while we have seen people that resemble Sub Zero in the Lin Kuei multiple times in the story. I wasn't planning on using the word "cryomancers" coz story wise, we don't know it for sure. I just remember MKD and MKA conquests where you came across many people in the Lin Kuei Temple that resembled Sub Zero (and in MKA's case I believe before you fought them, they left an ice-smoke-trail behind them when they appeared), that's why I used the word. So it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to make it canon that some of those people have cryomancer powers and make on of them the MKX Sub Zero. It would make perfect sense exactly as having multiple Mileenas would despite how bothersome it would be to me personally as a Mileena fan for example. Boon himself practically admitted it in his interview. I don't know where you got the "AGAIN you prove you know nothing" part from. Whenever have I demostrated to you that I know nothing? Please stop having that negative and rude attitude towards EVERYONE who posts in this thread that doesn't agree with you or doesn't like Sub Zero. You are annoying. Just stop! As for the cryomancers part I already answered above.

This thread is a perfect example of how MK fans hate and despise change. Kuai Lang was Sub-Zero for a long time, and I appreciate that he has a large fan-base, but you guys just have to accept that there could be someone else filing the role of Sub-Zero. This is the perfect time to do it, seeing as Kuai Lang is dead and there is no visible sign of him coming back anytime soon. I've always assumed that Sub-Zero was simply a role that someone would play until they either died or gave it up and I've always assumed that there were hundreds of people outside Bi-Han's and Kuai Lang's family that were cyromancers, Frost being a prime example. Boon has said twice now that Sub-Zero is simply a role for someone to fill, and both times he strongly hinted that it was someone new filling the role.

Trying to make Batman and Bruce Wayne similar to Sub-Zero and Kuai Lang is useless, as Bruce Wayne was the creator of Batman and will always be the man behind the role, whereas Kuai Lang did not create Sub-Zero and will probably not always be the role. Just because he was featured the most times as Sub-Zero doesn't make the role his and his alone. What I find funny is that the person behind the role of Sub-Zero in this game has already been decided, and none of you can change that. I admit, I felt like NRS were going to go the cheap and lazy way by somehow resurrecting Kuai Lang and making him Sub-Zero again, but I personally hope that Kuai Lang stays a Cyborg and I hope he can become his own character, just like Bi-Han and Noob became their own character. NRS have grown some balls since MK9, and it's clear that they are willing to displease a few fans in order to really shake the foundations of MK and really give us something new. It's unfortunate that the people who they're displeasing are complaining the hardest. I mean, look how long it took for people to calm down about new characters, and now a new wave of fans have found something new to complain about.

Anyway, to the people who are general fans of Sub-Zero, the role is still in the game, so be happy that your favorite title is back once again. For people who are fans of Kuai Lang, accept that some characters need a break, and god forbid Kuai Lang needs a LONG break. The guy's been in every fucking MK game (except the first) and I think he's long overdue for a rest. Let someone else take the role and actually give the new guy a chance before you shit on him and continue crying about Kuai Lang. But who am I kidding, the people on this thread will read this post and then 50% of them will ignore it once they realize I don't agree with them and just go back to spewing the same three points they've been banging on about for the last five pages, but I don't care. I've given my two cents and I'm out. Have fun wallowing in this shit storm.

Couldn't have said it better^ I just disagree with the % of the people who will ignore it. I would say that 50% will instead start being rude again about how you don't understand becoz you are not a fan of Subby Wubby.

For those who are constantly bickering about the whole "Sub-Zero was a cyborg in the ending and cannot ever find a way to bring him back as a human," have you forgotten already Cyrax's Mortal Kombat Gold ending? The Special Forces managed to find a way to restore him back as a human. (Heck, even in Sektor's ending, this was shown) I'm going to imagine that the dead (or some of the dead) will come back to life in some magical way, thus having Sonya and Cage (or even Cassie for that matter) find a way to bring Sub-Zero back to life.

Of course, then there's the whole Scorpion rivalry, in which I'm not going to even get into unless we know his biography. Because I really cannot see him continuing to have this pathetic attitude towards Sub-Zero for all this time after he managed to get what he wanted back in 2011 by killing Bi Han.

The only reason why I cannot see them having a brand new Sub-Zero into this game mainly because of what T-Rex wrote. Everything that he wrote basically nailed every reason why I am not for it. But you know, even if this is a brand new Sub-Zero, it's not going to get in the way of me playing as him. It will still be Sub-Zero no matter what.

Besides, he's throwing his ice clone as a move. I cannot wait to do that!

I can understand why people would be upset with a whole new character replacing another character, even if he both looks and plays the same.

It's like Soul Calibur V. Namco replaced Taki with Natsu, Xianghua with Leixia, Kilik with Xiba, and Sophitia/Cassandra with Patroklos/Pyrrha.

Yes, they basically play the same, with some changes, and even look very much alike those they replaced, but in the end, they are NOT the same characters!

For someone who only cares for the gameplay, it isn't a problem, but for someone who cares about the whole character, the story behind it, having followed that character and had him as a favourite due to the WHOLE package... it has an impact!

And I find it disrespectful that there are people who just go "and so what?"...
It DOES matter. Maybe not to you guys, but to others. Please respect that.