Its a debated subject at the momment.

One group believe this Sub-Zero is Bi Han free from Noob Saibot.
Another believes this is Kuai Liang fusion with Noob Saibot
Third group believes this is a new Sub-Zero.
Last group like me wants to believe that this is a resurrected Kuai Liang. Most likely from Quan Chi.

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Shadaloo
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06/23/2014 04:53 PM (UTC)
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
Shadaloo Wrote:
Scar_Subby Wrote:
"I tire of maintaining our innocence". Now, that is a line I could see coming from Kuai. Why? Because of MK4's storyline. Look it up. I don't feel like describing it here (Mk4 Scorpion's ending). Also, does Kuai know that Bi-Han murdered Scorpion? He may not know. So, he may presume him innocent. Hence "OUR innocence". Bi-Han is not innocent of anything though. He DID murder Scorpion.


Scorpion's rage isn't just over his own murder (which would be kinda petty); it's for that of the entire Shirai Ryu and, most obviously, his own family. That's the last thing Bi-Han said before Scorpion incinerated him upon seeing Quan's vision of the massacre - "That is not me!"


All I have to say is Duh! I know this.

I'm simply saying, Bi-Han can't proclaim innocence when he did murder Scorpion. Scorpion still has legit beef with that douche. Also, why would it be petty to be pissed over his own MURDER?

Kuai is innocent on all counts though.


Revenge for his own murder isn't a plot point that really stands out anymore and makes for pretty weak storytelling these days where everyone and their mom gets killed off and comes back every other MK game.

Sure, he's pissed he got killed, but the loss of Scorpion's family and clan as the prime factor in his own vendetta has been pretty well established as taking precedence over his own death starting from MK4 on ("You will pay for the massacre of my family and clan"). Bi-Han can rightfully continue to proclaim innocence over those deaths; to believe the Sub-Zero in the trailer is *just* denying he killed Scorpion is willfully blinding yourself to the rest of his background.
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Scar_Subby
06/23/2014 06:04 PM (UTC)
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Shadaloo Wrote:
Scar_Subby Wrote:
Shadaloo Wrote:
Scar_Subby Wrote:
"I tire of maintaining our innocence". Now, that is a line I could see coming from Kuai. Why? Because of MK4's storyline. Look it up. I don't feel like describing it here (Mk4 Scorpion's ending). Also, does Kuai know that Bi-Han murdered Scorpion? He may not know. So, he may presume him innocent. Hence "OUR innocence". Bi-Han is not innocent of anything though. He DID murder Scorpion.


Scorpion's rage isn't just over his own murder (which would be kinda petty); it's for that of the entire Shirai Ryu and, most obviously, his own family. That's the last thing Bi-Han said before Scorpion incinerated him upon seeing Quan's vision of the massacre - "That is not me!"


All I have to say is Duh! I know this.

I'm simply saying, Bi-Han can't proclaim innocence when he did murder Scorpion. Scorpion still has legit beef with that douche. Also, why would it be petty to be pissed over his own MURDER?

Kuai is innocent on all counts though.


Revenge for his own murder isn't a plot point that really stands out anymore and makes for pretty weak storytelling these days where everyone and their mom gets killed off and comes back every other MK game.

Sure, he's pissed he got killed, but the loss of Scorpion's family and clan as the prime factor in his own vendetta has been pretty well established as taking precedence over his own death starting from MK4 on ("You will pay for the massacre of my family and clan"). Bi-Han can rightfully continue to proclaim innocence over those deaths; to believe the Sub-Zero in the trailer is *just* denying he killed Scorpion is willfully blinding yourself to the rest of his background.


Yeah, but the main argument here is that Scorpion calls him "murderer". He doesn't even say of what. Bi-Han is a murderer. He murdered Hanzo. He is a murderer.

Kuai is innocent though, and there's a good chance he doesn't even know his brother is guilty of anything...Yet.
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Shadaloo
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06/23/2014 07:14 PM (UTC)
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Scar_Subby Wrote:

Yeah, but the main argument here is that Scorpion calls him "murderer". He doesn't even say of what. Bi-Han is a murderer. He murdered Hanzo. He is a murderer.

Kuai is innocent though, and there's a good chance he doesn't even know his brother is guilty of anything...Yet.


It's pretty obvious what. Like I said, Scorpion's prime motivation is the loss of his loved ones. In no reality is he coming at Sub-Zero angry over just his own death, not these days. To reiterate: Bi-Han can claim innocence over the loss of the rest of the clan and the family. We've seen him do it before his death. There is absolutely no reason Bi-Han can't be the one speaking that line.
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Kaber
06/23/2014 09:24 PM (UTC)
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Scorpion didn't say he was out to avenge his own death instead of the whole Shirai Ryu (especially his wife and child) anywhere in MK9.

And why would any of the Lin Kuei want to maintain their innocence for Bi-Han killing Scorpion? He was from an enemy clan.
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Scar_Subby
06/24/2014 12:23 AM (UTC)
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Shadaloo Wrote:
Scar_Subby Wrote:

Yeah, but the main argument here is that Scorpion calls him "murderer". He doesn't even say of what. Bi-Han is a murderer. He murdered Hanzo. He is a murderer.

Kuai is innocent though, and there's a good chance he doesn't even know his brother is guilty of anything...Yet.


It's pretty obvious what. Like I said, Scorpion's prime motivation is the loss of his loved ones. In no reality is he coming at Sub-Zero angry over just his own death, not these days. To reiterate: Bi-Han can claim innocence over the loss of the rest of the clan and the family. We've seen him do it before his death. There is absolutely no reason Bi-Han can't be the one speaking that line.


Yeah, but honestly I could still see that line coming from Kuai more than Bi-Han. It's like he's saying okay I've been reasoning with you, but I'm getting tired of this shit. Bi-Han killed Hanzo with him begging. I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel the need to reason with anyone. The "Shirai Ryu Dog" line, now that sounds more like Bi-Han.

Also, I could say the same thing for the grandmaster playstyle. I imagine that will relate to story. Which brother has an actual reason to want to beat Sektor's ass and take over the Lin Kuei? Bi-Han has never shown to have beef with Sektor and, if he somehow makes it back to life, what is his motivation to go back there? I've already argued he really didn't care a lot about Kuai. So, that's not legit motivation. It's just hey I want the Lin Kuei Sektor! Hell, Cyrax has more reason than him to try and take that mantle.
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RazorsEdge701
06/24/2014 12:56 AM (UTC)
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The part of the intro that throws the whole thing into the air for me is "OUR innocence".

Scorpion only blames ONE guy for anything, so who the hell is the plural referring to?
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
The part of the intro that throws the whole thing into the air for me is "OUR innocence".

Scorpion only blames ONE guy for anything, so who the hell is the plural referring to?


Didn't someone suggest that "Our" was reference to Himself and his Clan
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Keep dunking your Kenshi breadsticks into your Skarlet sauce, people! The main course isn't coming for a while, and you never know when it's going to be disappointing.

06/30/2014 02:24 AM (UTC)
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Something I just kind of realized.

Let's assume the new Sub-Zero is indeed a brand new Sub-Zero.
Let's assume that Bi-Han was vaporized from the Soulnado or is still Noob Saibot/alive.
Let's assume Kuai Liang is still dead/zombified or is the new Noob Saibot.

If the new Sub-Zero obtained his name by being the new cryomancer working for the Lin Kuei, then why isn't he a cyborg?

If the Grandmaster or Sektor is still the leader of the Lin Kuei, then wouldn't the Lin Kuei still be a group of cyborgs?

Unless:
a) Someone with half a brain, Bi-Han, Kuai Liang, or Cyrax took over the Lin Kuei.
b) The Grandmaster or Sektor (unlikely) decided against the cybernetics plan.
c) New Sub-Zero took the name of Sub-Zero, yet isn't a member of the Lin Kuei.
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xysion
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06/30/2014 02:49 AM (UTC)
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Another thing is that SubZero has got no pupils like Scorpion, a feature associated with undead or god beings in Mortal Kombat. I am thinking it is Bi-Han.
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Insider2000
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Keep dunking your Kenshi breadsticks into your Skarlet sauce, people! The main course isn't coming for a while, and you never know when it's going to be disappointing.

06/30/2014 02:56 AM (UTC)
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Sub-Zero has had no pupils before, though.

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Icebaby
06/30/2014 03:30 AM (UTC)
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Insider2000 Wrote:
Sub-Zero has had no pupils before, though.



And so did half the roster of Deception...
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Chrome
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06/30/2014 09:41 AM (UTC)
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Perhaps it's the two Sub-Zeros monged into one.
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thisiscourage
06/30/2014 10:59 AM (UTC)
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Would be a really cool twist if we found out at Noobs arcade ending that "saibot" is actually Kuai liang.

I think it's pretty apparent given boons description of a sea of Sub Zero's that it is a new subby. Probably escaped sectors cybernetics plan.
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Icebaby
06/30/2014 11:52 AM (UTC)
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thisiscourage Wrote:
Would be a really cool twist if we found out at Noobs arcade ending that "saibot" is actually Kuai liang.


That would make no sense at all. Saibot is Noob's own shadow that he can control, it's not a soul.
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thisiscourage
06/30/2014 12:10 PM (UTC)
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Saibot is clearly more than a shadow, it is a being so-to-speak, it has its own identity. Sure Noob controls it, but only because it is a part of him. A part of him that manifests itself as a shadow with physical properties.

There have been more absurd things to happen in Mortal Kombat than assuming Kuai's soul can be absorbed and controlled by Noob, especially since they are blood related.
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Icebaby
06/30/2014 12:34 PM (UTC)
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Noob only has powers to control his shadow and use it as a way to attack, he's got nothing on him to obtain a soul and use it for his personal gain. Kuai is a slave to Quan Chi right now until proven otherwise that he's somewhere else. (Since obviously nothing yet has said where he's at yet) Noob has never shown an interest to enslave his brother. We've seen him kill his brother in Deception and got his butt handed to him in 2011. None of the confrontations shows Noob interested in doing anything else to his brother other than to kill him. Exactly what purpose would there be to enslave his brother?
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thisiscourage
06/30/2014 12:54 PM (UTC)
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An unwillingness to merge together ay? Sounds like your saying Quan Chi must enforce it. I like the way you think.. ya, make his secret weapon even more powerful.
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J-spit
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06/30/2014 01:32 PM (UTC)
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This Sub-Zero mystery dinner deal has to be purposeful.

He has little things here and there that remind me of Kuai Liang (all metal/steel/aluminum mask) and Shao Kahn (his sash and "jacket" have that unmistakable shingle style pattern from Shao's MK2/3 days).

Idk what to think, but these things have been on my mind since I first saw him I detail.
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Scar_Subby
07/07/2014 04:31 PM (UTC)
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Has this Sub-Zero been confirmed as Bi-Han? It seems like every forum I read people are saying that Sub-Zero is Bi-Han.

I have seen no real evidence to point in either direction though.

Seems like this "Soulnado theory" has run rampant.

I see Noob Saibot and Bi-han as one.
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RazorsEdge701
07/07/2014 04:55 PM (UTC)
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thisiscourage Wrote:
Saibot is clearly more than a shadow, it is a being so-to-speak, it has its own identity.


There is nothing anywhere in canon to suggest that Noob's shadow clone is more than just him using the power to control his own shadow and has a mind of its own.
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Icebaby
07/07/2014 04:59 PM (UTC)
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Scar_Subby Wrote:
Has this Sub-Zero been confirmed as Bi-Han? It seems like every forum I read people are saying that Sub-Zero is Bi-Han.

I have seen no real evidence to point in either direction though.

Seems like this "Soulnado theory" has run rampant.

I see Noob Saibot and Bi-han as one.


I've seen nothing saying that this is indeed Bi Han, and I certainly hope it's not.

I made a huge tangent on another site claiming that I most certainly hope this isn't Bi Han for the sake of still keeping Noob around.

You can't just have Noob suddenly get his "soul" ripped out of him, replaced with another so that soul occupies Noob's body while Noob's soul suddenly goes into a body that supposedly his old human self. That's dumb, because then that means that Noob won't be Noob anymore, it'll just be some random person who is living in a body they probably either won't know how to control or somehow randomly knows everything about it and becomes the next Noob.

Nuh uh, I refuse to believe this is Bi Han because of that entire reasoning.

If it's a descendant, so be it. I came to my senses and will be okay if this is an entirely new Sub-Zero. He can either be that or Kuai Liang who somehow managed to find a way to get all the cybernetic parts off of him. I don't want this to be Bi Han.

Not to mention, here's another tangent I wrote about:

Noob and Scorpion N-E-V-E-R fought each other. I'm going to assume Noob either didn't care about it anymore or the writers truly screwed up on that part. However, why would Bi Han get transformed into Noob and not fight him, then suddenly magically find a way to get re-transformed back into his human self and randomly restart the rivalry again? Noob/Bi Han obviously can remember things, since clearly he remembers his brother so I doubt he has memory problems of Scorpion and everything that happened around that issue.

I seriously cannot see this be Bi Han. Just because then it kills off another character, and I refuse to accept that another soul can just occupy that body and everything is fine and dandy with that.
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07/07/2014 05:02 PM (UTC)
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"Our" is likely just referring to the clan. MK9 depicted a large group, if not the entire Lin Kuei, slaughtering the Shirai Ryu. I bet it is for simplicity of presentation with what MK9 had shown the player. Clan vs Clan.
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RazorsEdge701
07/07/2014 05:03 PM (UTC)
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I'd like to point out that the worst thing Soul Calibur ever did, the singular, tangible event you can point to as the moment when the story stopped mattering to those games, was when Nightmare and Siegfried were separated into two characters with some bullshit story about how the sword didn't need to possess people anymore, it could just magically possess the suit of armor and walk around all on its own.
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Scar_Subby
07/07/2014 06:13 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I'd like to point out that the worst thing Soul Calibur ever did, the singular, tangible event you can point to as the moment when the story stopped mattering to those games, was when Nightmare and Siegfried were separated into two characters with some bullshit story about how the sword didn't need to possess people anymore, it could just magically possess the suit of armor and walk around all on its own.


It would be the same here. I'll lose faith in them.

I use Noob Saibot's ending in Deception as to why they aren't two separate entities. It clearly brings up again what Raiden told to Bi-Han. If Bi-hqn didn't change a horrible fate awaited him. It then says his soul was tainted with evil, and that the evil of the netherealm basically just made that evil grow (although some sort of Quan Chi magic was involved somewhere I'm sure. Either way it basically confirms to me that Noob Saibot and Bi-Han are the same.

The dumbest arguments I've heard are Boon tweeted there's Noob and there's Saibot. Some people spin that as Bi-Han being separate from Noob Saibot. However neither Noob nor Saibot = Bi-Han and Noob Saibot. My best guess is there's Noob and his shadow that he controls. Simple as that. Only makes sense that a guy who has shadow powers can control his shadow.

People then say the elder gods will save him. However, the soulnado is DONE. It's already disappeared from existence and the elder gods have no idea an attack is.coming. So, unless someone already saved him cough *Havik* cough. Then he should be dead. Also why would the elder gods save him? Didn't he royally piss them off and almost allow Shinnok into Earth at one point?

Also, people expect him to retain his personality if he emerges as Sub-Zero. Yet, they say Noob Saibot is the evil in him So, if Noob Saibot is wiped from him then theoretically he's just Kuai Liang. He would be fully good.

There's just too many questions to be asked of this dumbass theory, yet people have flocked to it like moths to a flame.

Quan Chi controls the dead. He has given new bodies or changed the form of multiple characters including Scorpion, Noob Saibot, Sareena, Kia, Jataaka, and in MK9 brought Sindel back. He also has control of Kuai right now. Kuai is also STILL named Sub-Zero. Yet, people think it would be bad writing to bring back Kuai and they support that mess of a theory for Bi-Han.

It's Bullshit.

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