In my humble opinion, i dont see sub-zero in anywhere other than the lower tier.

I have been a true sub-zero fan ever since the start and no doubt i will still continue to strive against the odds, but sub-zero just doesnt have what it takes to be a decent character.

Taking out dragon stance was ok, but they could have at least given him a decent combo that at least hits low just once! I mean, the opponents virtually never have to block low against sub-zero. All his combos hit either high or mid. Shoulder block is even more useless now with the absence of good lows. d+3 is what i sometimes use online for mixups but that just isnt enough.

And the new ice pillar move has ridiculous recovery time. After a whiffed attempt my opponents are literally breathing down my neck waiting for the move to finish so they could try to punish me.

Kori stance is the same as before which is a good thing.

So, in conclusion, they took the MKD sub, took out his dragon stance , and didnt update the shotokan movelist so subzero could have a better mixup game. I mean ok, 3 hits mid but whats the point if you dont have a few decent low moves.

Well, this was just my opinion. Feel free to comment.

Cool, thanks fenix. That sounds kinda cool about the spam. Even though it's still in, it sounds like options are beginning to show up. I may pick this up for the Wii, lol. Reptile looks fun as fuck to play, too.

Oh, and is the button layout the same as D?

still 1,2,3,4,cs,th,bl

Can't jump straight up (u is sidestep like t4) except buffered during some moves or after a launcher. Can't use moves involving up after a launcher unless buffered, thanks to air kombat.

-F.

You're kidding right? This game leans more towards defense. Sub-Zero has pretty much always been a more defense-oriented character.

I too am disappointed that he has Shotokan instead of Dragon.

I agree about the Icy Pillar and Kori Blade.

You're belitting about attack 3 in Shotokan hitting mid, and you forgot about Sub-Zero's D + 1 poke in that style. Also, he can do the Ice Clone in the air.

So overall, he's not a low-tier character.

Check, pm me cyrax's infinite dude.Thanks.

okay i think i found my first infinite i gotta test it against someone else tho.

its with smoke all u gotta do is throw and when hes stunned back up do sticky fingers then throw again and repeat ( nm i tested it with my brother u can block the sticky fingers (guess midway isnt as dumb as i thought)

Sorry but that will only work in practice, or a dummy who doesn't know how press the block button. You can no longer combo after Smokes throw because your opponent can cancel the stagger animation from the throw by pressing block.


Peace

uh yeah i have 1 question? how the hell do i o the fatalities after i beat someone it says finish them and every button combo i hit its either <><>square and it doesn't work pls help me out

ok mkf, i will

this time i found a unescapable air infinite with quan chi. its really hard to do, ive only gotten 2 so far, but it works.

more as it develops

Sub-Zero seems to be low-tier to me as well actually. He doesn't seem to be much improved.... Only real improvement I can see is the 3 mid kick. Sub-Zero just not the best to do mixups with. I think the wake up in the game ruin's how good of a mix up game Subby could have. As is, doesn't seem to be that great of a character and seems to me to be low tier, maybe low-mid at the highest. I'll still play with Subby no matter what though... All I know is that I've now played with about half the roster I believe, and Sub-Zero I'd say is one of the worse character's I've played with so far. I hate how he still does less damage if you freeze them first....

I wanna try to keep this shorter, but I've played with a bit of other characters today. Won't talk about each of them, but here are some thoughts....

Well first off only boss character's I haven't played with are Shao Kahn and Kintaro. So far though Motaro seems like the best boss character. Maybe Goro or Kintaro are though. Not 100% certain, but so far of the boss character's I'm likeing Motaro the best.

Seems like a lot of character's from Deception still really seem to be the same, but with one less style. Like Nightwolf and Ashrah seem to be the same for example. Anyways so far for me, seems like every one from MKD seem to be the same for the most part. Maybe a little bit new for some. Haven't played them all yet though....

Reiko I'm not all too sure about.... Crude Hammer sucks. I forget the name of it, but his hand to hand style is good. 3 being a mid pop-up and has good lows. It pretty much has a good mixup game still, but it is still weak. Well screw 3! Reiko's spin kick special move is a mid popup wich if you use that instead of 3, you can deal out more damage. Like 30%+. Overall he still isn't the most damaging character from what I can tell, but has great mixup game with his style being fast with that fast special mid popup move. His other special's seem to be alright. His charge is meh... His throwing stars projectil is weak and meh.... His teleport slam move from what I played seemed to be safe on block, but I'm not certain about that.

Overall I dunno for sure where I see Reiko standing in this game... No doubt at the least in mid tier....Don't think I'd say top tier.... so maybe upper-mid tier.... Honestly not sure exactly how good Reiko is overall, but does have a pretty good mixup game from what I can tell, wich will probably make him upper-mid. Lack of power though pretty much needing to use his special move to do a 30%+ damaging combo from what I can tell.... Not sure, but thinking he maybe not some one I'mma be useing a great deal unless I end up with him a lot of the time when I pick randomly... The thing is is that Quan Chi for example has a good mixup game and can dish out really nice damage like 40% or so.

Darrius.... cuz of the wakeup in MKA, Darrius' 3 in guantlets and his throw move mixup is pretty much eleminated wich makes me sad Reason is because on wakeup, YOU can do mixup with low kick or mid kick. Cuz of that you can't safely be right up close to the opponent when they are down. So since you gotta stay away, if they just get up, they got enough time to get out of any mixup possibility. The mixup with Darrius will still probably be his main mixup I'm guessing, but not being able to really try it safely when the opponent gets up off the ground imo really hurts his game. Makes it so when you will go for it is while they are standing up moveing around and being close. Would of been nice if Darrius obtained a really good low, wich if I recall right he did not. Overall Darrius doesn't seem as good as he was in MKD. I'd say mid tier.

Shinnok - He seems pretty bad to me actually. Just nothing all that great about his styles from what I can tell. His special move that the skeleton hand comes up is unblockable it seems, but you can't juggle off it from what I tried. Seems like some thing to use while opponent is down in wakeup game, or use it after doing a combo and you knock them down seemed to work for a little more damage. Overall Shinnok don't seem that great.

As for the rest of the character's I've played with so far haven't really made me feel like it is worth mentioning them. Either they are same as before, or just not all that good from what I can tell.

just to confirm, i just did 32 hits 26% with Quan Chi

Its an Inf, and not escapable,in air

Shang has it too

not that hard either

oh yea on some really dumb shit, scorpions throws is a otg if u hold block and stay on ground or roll after holding block. it hits the same way as bo's did in mkd

if u just get up normal, scorpion cant reach u in time

just thought that was funny

later

Shangs is nearly impossible compared to Quans, i can only do like 3 or 4 , too hard to time the frame, its different after every set

peace

I'm not sure if this was intentional or is a glitch, but you can cancel the startup of a parry by attacking or changing your fighting style during the beginning frames of start up.

This adds extra range to attacks and throws. Have fun with it.

Also from what I've seen Shujinko takes more damage than other characters.

Don't you guys think air kombat adds new complexity to the tier list? Right now I don't always react fast enough off the lauch to achieve anything worthwhile, but it just seems that if I really get good at it, even with a low combo character, this will make up for it.

Yeah I noticed that with shunjiko to. It's like he's always in weapon stance. Also on reiko has anyone tested much with his projectile? What i've found nice is that if it's blocked it pushes the oppnent away from you which can give you time to recover, but I'm not sure if they have to block all 9 stars or if they can block the first 1-3 and then just walk up and nail you while you're tossing out dummy ones.

Check can you get some videos for us of these combos?


Also I want to play u

some MKA matches


here are soem matches i capped last night while playing. i didnt edit the video so that some folks can see how the lobby looks like now, and that it shows every one who is online even if they are playing some one. it also shows who they are playing.


one issue w/ the video i forgot to fix the sound, so its ok at the tart but 5 mins in it gets louder and crackeyer ( making words up as i go)

characters i use in vid

DANCOCK he owns all!!
Shinnok
kitana
sareena
tanya
quan chi

i was lying down on my bed while playing so i did fuck up a few things while playing. i didnt respect any of my foes.

i did how ever have to get up playing my last 2 matches, you'll see why.

i just fought a really good shinnok player (i wish i remembered his name) but hes around rank 50.

what he does is go into amulet weapon stance and use 8+triangle which is def the longest sweep in the game and mix's up with his combo (i think its circle,circle,square). it really does work wonders because after u sweep u can do that unblockable skeleton grab for more %.

i just fought a really good shinnok player (i wish i remembered his name) but hes around rank 50.

what he does is go into amulet weapon stance and use 8+triangle which is def the longest sweep in the game and mix's up with his combo (i think its circle,circle,square). it really does work wonders because after u sweep u can do that unblockable skeleton grab for more %.

pighut IM me on AIM, sodano49

dan, i wanna play u too, its been like 4 days

peace

Can you put it on youtube?

LMAO Dan, that other KaF at the end was hilarious! Good stuff.

The KAK is so much fun, lol have you guys seen any nice ones online?I have, a few.This one guy made a NICE oldschool Rain down to the T.NO joke.

I made two so far, my friend jason LMAO and one of the many KAK's of my own.

You can make them broken obviously if you know what you're doing lol.But it's all fun, I don't look for infinites or anything I just put together a nice creation both look wise and gameplay wise.

hehe, this is funny

the player 2 glitch is back

i finally picked liu kang today and decided totry his player 2only combo from deception, it didnt work, so i plugged the controller into the second side, and wouldnt you know it, it worked..

this was a major glitch, now its just stupid that it still exists, and player 2 can still do things player 1 cant

so that leads me to believe the wall otgs dont work for player 2, as they didnt in mkd for player 2

the problem is player 1 will still recover faster than player 2, and being on the second player side today, it felt sluggish and not even playable from that side, even though it can do the bigger combo

there were only 3 or 4 characters in deception that could do bigger combos on player 2, liu kang, shujinko, nightwolf, and kenshi, 3 of 4 cant even use what they once had,but liu kangs was in his first stance


its really sad to see it back, thats all ill say, with the fair warning at e3, to still see it. this will effect online, player 1 will still be to avoid tracking, ive already seen sidestep cancel. and its been confirmed rather late in the mkds lifetime, that only player 1 can do it online.

im sure dave, thug, versatile, karate,konqrr can all vouch for me on the above statement, hell... me and thug are the ones who tested it.

welcome back P2 glitch, you sorry sack of shit.

I've played around with air kombat with every character I've played with so far. For some of the weaker characters, the best damaging combo I could figure out how to do at the time would be with useing air kombat. Like with Frost for example. Do like 30% involving some air kombat was the best I could figure out damage wise. (I think I maybe came across a Frost infinite as well, but haven't tested it. I owned CPU Shao Kahn by doing a tactic that it seemed to be like an infinite, but maybe just cuz of the AI. I dunno yet.)

Anyways air kombat isn't really that useful for a lot of characters.

Overall air kombat I don't think will effect tier list at all, and personally air kombat is a let down to me. Plus the air kombat infinites Check has been talking about??? Sounds like Air Kombat is broken some, but isn't that useful for most characters anyways. But yeah I don't see how it will be effecting tier list.

Anyways hey fyi, KINTARO OWNS!!!!! Seriously Kintaro is pretty nice! Well atleast damage wise. He has the boss qualities so he can't be thrown by the smaller characters and projectiles don't do nothing on him and he takes less damage. All good.... Well his d,b+1 special that sucks them in you hit them it pops them up. Do a juggle combo then with 4,2,1 for like 39% it was if they are in hand to hand, 45% if in weapon stance. And from what I could tell it seemed to be a pretty safe special move considdering how much range it has. Also his b+4 seemed to be a good low, but he has a couple other lows as well. Not sure where exactly that specific special hits, if mid or just high. Anyways he seems to be pretty good overall. Not certain, but I think he maybe missing a good mid hit in Saber Teeth, wich is better than his hand to hand style from what I could tell.

Johnny Cage has also surprised me. Shinto Ryu seems to be better than it use to be... Maybe cuz of the damage it is capable of now :) Keep this part short.... Cage seems good with Shinto Ryu. Only thing I'm not sure of is weither or not it has a good mid or not. Any one know if 2 in Shinto Ryu with Cage is a mid??? Or if 4 is a mid??? Hard to test against computer. (My brother is away and haven't been able to test much with friends yet, and I don't play PS2 online.)

There are some characters that seem interesting that have some nice moves that could of been key to them being great characters, but seem to be lacking in other area's. Either that or I'm starting to lack in my testing with some characters lol! Anyways I'm talking about Sareena and Jarek mainly. Sareena with f,f+1 being a mid popup, and that very fast projectile of hers. Yet it don't seem like her styles are good enough to make her overall a really great character... And same with Jarek it seems. Good specials, but I'm not so sure his styles are good enough to considder him to be a great character in this game. Both still in the mid tier imo. Stryker and Kai also kinda seem to fit into this catagory. Although maybe I'm missing some thing and I've started to slack in my testing and just need a break or some thing??? Those are actually the last 4 characters I played with so I dunno....

One last thing... Kung Lao.... Wow.... It was b+3 I think that is that low pop up... wait what? a LOW popup move??? CRAZY! OK cuz of that move, plus just being pretty good all around it seems to me, he is atleast upper-mid tier to me at the moment. He has great mixup game as far as I can tell with his Broadsword with that popup low and the mid attacks he has like f+3. And I was able to do 39% juggle combo's with him in Broadsword stance. Shaolin Fist however doesn't seem as good as it use to be. To be honest I got caught up in how much fun his Broadsword is, so maybe I missed some thing with Shaolin Fist, but yeah either way Broadsword seems to be his bread and butter in this game :)

Well that is all for now.... I only got like 20 more characters to play with. Maybe a little less.... Man there is so many freakin characters......