Jack is bad ass in T5.

I never really got in to him before, but now he looks too good to pass up.

The jack I liked the most before was Gun Jack in Tag.

I'm absolutely sure if Tekken 5 does great balance wise,it will be huge.

Even if the balance isn't top notch I wouldn't think that could hurt the game. Balance, so long as it's not too messed up, isn't the biggest issue and won't be the only reason people stop playing. MVC2 is probably the most broken fighting game ever made and it still can draw a crowd. So, yeah, if T5 has VF4:Evo balance then awesome but even if it's no different than T4 i don't think it will drive people away.

Tony,I actually meant unbalances like T4 Jin.Hopefully,something like that will never occur again.It seems Tekken players really do care more about balance issues than some other fighting game fans.I don't know.

Anyway,people,check out
http://games.kikizo.com/news/200411/050.asp
...if you haven't done so already.

Why is Kazuya dressed like the Joker?

He always had that costume.

Since Tekken 2 at least. I never played Tekken 1.

I think it looks kool.

Back to the game play stuff.

What would you think if you could do quick dash / side step in any direction.

Like in every game now you just tap up or down and you step to the Left and Forward or Right and Forward.

What if tapping any of the six up or down arrows would cause a quick step or side step in any of those directions?

like Kazuya's diagonal step when you tap >.


I'm trying to think of new ideas for movement.


Example of use:

Similar to how the side step attacks work in Tekken.

But if you do a uf, u, or ub side step, you will do a different side step attack.

Like with the 8 way attacks in SC2.

How about it?

So that this doesn't interfere with jumping or crouching.

That could be done like in SC = tap block+ up or down to jump or crouch.

Or tap up+ attack to do jumping attacks like in VF4.

I'd also like to be able to do a quick dash to the side= Like when you tap >> in tekken, but you would tap u,u or d,d to do a tekken tag style side step.

Sometimes whey playing MKD I wish I could do that.

Did I stomp you guys?

keep it up!

I think the thing with movement is that the freedom of movement needs to be directly proportional to the offensive options able to control that movement. For example, it'd be screwed up if two characters can move around all over the place but at the same time don't have the tools to beat the opponent's movements. I think it'd be awesome to have those options but I'd like to see diagonal thrust attacks in conjunction. Johnny Cage doing his Shadow Kick in all directions for example. Also lunging grapples might be neat. People could have a lunging command throw that is unsafe as all hell but goes up and forward or down and forward. Maybe look something like Paul's Phoenix Tackle but be a throw. The escape window would be smaller than normal throws to balance the risk a little.

Great idea Tony, that opens up a large new widow for enovation in fighting games. With the directional attacks combined with free movement.

Nice!

More ideas...........................

A special throw escape animation for when you have your back to the wall.

You could struggle a little then kick the opponent off with one leg.

Like you push them off with your leg while you have your back against the wall.



An idea for a jugle breaker. similar to how you can throw fireballs and normal attack after being hit in the air in MVSC2.

You would pop the opponent up, then you would juggle them, but on the last hit. The one that knocks them far away. Some fighters could do air special moves before they hit the ground.

This could be done like a throw escape or a tec. roll. When you take the last hit, you tap your command.

You only have a very small window in which you can imput the comand.

It could be general like (1234) or it could be character specific like df+1.


Examples=

Scorpion's teleport punch, not the kick. So it flows with his falling animation.

Smoke's teleport uppercut

A fireball = any number of fighers can use this. Raiden, Liu, Kabal.......

Teleport

TK throw = Kenshi could flay his arms to the side and the opponent would go flying to the left or right.

----------------------------------
---------------------------------

This move could be used in combination to the other idea I posted about making the fighter bounce further away if you tap Back right when the pop up hit's or once per juggle hit.

So it could look like this.

Sub Zero in Shotokan VS Scorpion.

Sub = 1,2,<2

Scorp=.......>, db+1

Or like this

Sub= 1,2,<2,...,1

Scorp=..............>, db+1

Or the last way

Sub= 1,2,<2,...1,2,
Scorp=....................db+1

****Click here to watch an animation of the last example.****

Using this technique would require special timing and skill to use.

Also, if the move would be considered cheap then, the Attacker = Sub in this case would be able to cancel his recovery animation to a side step or dodge if he taps Block at the right moment.

It's like parry timing.


This would be both useful and kool to watch IMO.

Bleed, those animations you do are awesome. Considering that's how concept and design works they're super useful. I think that considering the juggle system in MK:D, although better than DA, is already a little wonky it could be useful to take out the juggle limit completely. Now with the current physics that would allow infinite juggles. But something I think may work is if they want to keep the current physics, an air recovery command could be used like qcf+1 or something that wouldn't do anything by itself per se. But if done during the rising or falling animations of the juggle, not while being hit, the character will right himself and then gain air control. This way, juggles can still play a large role in the game. Even after the air recovery is done the juggle can continue. But this way, it leaves the person being juggled with the responsibility of ending the juggle asap as opposed to forcing the juggle to stop.

If you guys think up of all these things why dont you make a better game?
since you know what is wrong with this game make a game that is better. And dont say it cant be done, just look at counter stike.

Funny you should say that since it's something i'm very serious about doing. I want to make all kinds of video games. I want to write comics too but that's a whole different thing. I actually plan on starting my own development studio sometime down the line after I graduate. My biggest problem for me right now is that I don't know any programming languages so I can't make anything by myself. I'm somewhat familiar with java and general programming conventions but that doesn't do me much good. I could teach myself since there's tons of stuff on it but even if I do learn how to program an engine, I can't draw and I don't know jack about music. So if I made a fighting game on my own the best I'd end up with is a nice engine, different colored stick figures for characters, and no sound whatsoever. When I finally get started the first real game I'll work on will probably be a shooter along the lines of Abadox, Axelay, or Ikaruga. Then I'd take steps into more complicated genres.

I like the idea of righting your self while being juggled.

Sort of like In SC2 where sometimes you can land on your feet after a juggle.

Instead of having auto juggle limits like in MKD, It should just be that you knock the opponent further away.

To save your self from a juggle I'd like it if on the last hit you could rotate the joy stick on the way up and down to make your character land on their feet.

Or if you tap (1234) you will right your self and land on your feet like in STFA3. But This might only work on pop up attacks.

When you right your self, you can do an air block.

So this would save you from a follow up after the initial pop up attack and from follow up attacks when you are laying on the floor.

The air block could look like Kano's canon ball = you ball up like in a fetal position or like the air block stances in 2D games.

If hit during this block animation, you will be knocked back and land standing up. = as if you hopped back, if hit with another pop up attack during this stance, you might do a back flip instead of just a hop back animation.

Excellent thread. I hope somebody from the designers would read it. Say, lets fight for it everybody.

Gamespot has a bunch of new T5 beta movies for the PS2 version. there is also a new developer interview.

Go here

Nice stuff, Bleed.

Hey, what's the news with Soul Calibur III? I've been hearing conflicting news that it's in development now for the current generation and that it's in pre-planning stages for the next generation. I've also heard that it's going to be console only and online like MK is now. Are these just rumors? I haven't been able to find any evidence backing up these claims.

Well, I hope SC3 is released on the next generation of consoles, that way, the consoles will have more power, which means better graphics and better gameplay, and better gameplay combined with better graphics equals a very happy cartmansp...

BTW, the idea of having to correct yourself midair and being able to attack after being knocked into the air are pretty damn cool. I'm positive that at least one member of the MK Team has seen this thread, I just hope that the MK Team realizes how good these ideas are and decides to use them...

If the MK team was interested in what we have to say they'd have shown it by now. This stuff in this thread is great and it's been around for months. Plus considering the past year's worth of awesome discussions it's hard to believe this thread would get any more attention than all the others. We've been dying down not necessarily because we're losing interest, well maybe a little of that too, but more because we're running out of things to say. Collectively, we've come up with multiple ways to do every single element of a fighting game. By picking and choosing this suggested counter system and this suggested juggle system and so on, one could theoretically make multiple different fighting engines. As of now, attracting the attention of the MK team is a pipe dream. What I think would be worse is that maybe we did attract the MK team and they brushed off everything as random MK bashing like half this site does.

Yeah, I don't think they pay too much attention to these threads.

It doesn't show in the games they make, but I still have fun coming up with stuff.

I don't know anything about SC3, I haven't looked in to it yet.

I hope it comes out on the next gen systems also.

Yep, that sucks...

But, I'm sure that Mortal Kombat's biggest selling point (blood and gore) will start to run out. MK already lost it's shock value and Ed Boon said himself that it is hard to come up with ideas for fatalities. Mabye, if the MK Team keeps using generic fatalities, it will turn a lot of fans away. And eventually, the majority of MK fans (the ones that want more blood and more characters) will become the minority and the ones that want to improve MK's fighting engine will become the majority and Ed Boon will have no choice but to appeal to us...

But the MK franchise might be "dead" by the time that happens, and trying to sell an MK game will be hard, even with a good fighting engine...

Another thing that can happen is, if the MK franchise runs out of steam, Midway might go out of business and some other company could buy midway and revitalize the MK series. Mabye a company that takes advice from their fans a lot more.


But the thing is, almost all the video game websites and video game magazines give MK games high scores, and as long as the MK Team sees these reviews they'll think they did a great job with the game. And I think the reason most of these people rate MK so high is because they remember playing it when they were little and feel like they owe it to the MK Team. If MK: Deception had the exact same fighting engine, story and character design it does but didn't have the history it did, it would probably get some pretty bad reviews...

All we can do do now is post our thoughts, hope, and wait...

The plan is to make SC3 console only while developing good online architecture and competitive verve. Don't know if it's going to be on next gen or not, though.

MK is the biggest enigma of all fighters. The majority of its fans couldn't care less about its core gameplay, which is the very essence of a fighting game to begin with. Infact, the very demographic that the game caters to is that of ignorance, sheep hearding, inconsistant bias and fanboy'ism. Which, by the way, is the same demographic known to shell out the $$$ on garbage that is tasteless, superficial and underdeveloped.

Tony hit it; we've said all we can say. Infact, we've said the same things over and over for so long, it has become somewhat of a game to simply find new and creative ways to express these views, beliefs and needs.

This enigma of MK projects itself as "all that which isn't a fighter." There is nothing mechanically sound about MK. There isn't any method of logical comprehension. There is nothing "new" and "cutting edge." Simply Midway PR and devs saying that there is; going back to the whole demographic stereotype of sheep hearding.

"MK is supposed to be different." Being different does not constitute nor' defend poor design and propostorus conceptual ideals. Again, these flaws are not seen because of the ignorance. Even after preaching and preaching and continualy proving these concepts to be horendous; many people simply choose to ignore, to shun, etc. They make a cognative choice to defend garbage; often bringing up ideotic retorts which have no relevancy to actual gameplay. Such as story, "character design" and so forth. All of which are even more subjective than gameplay because you can break down gameplay into components, into that which works and that which doesn't. It is an interactive, functional system; or, at least that's the idea behing gameplay.

But, alas, why should Midway care? Attach some random bullshit story to prolong another random, bullshit story. Make universally cosmetic females which apeal to pre-pubecent boys. Apply that which is convienent. Why not? Who is going to know the difference? Not the MK "fans" that's for sure.

Feed them sugar coated baby shit, and they'll come back for more....MK, the true enigma of VG world.

Amen! some good points is this thread, lets hope the MK team will read this and think seriously about the points that are made.

ouch, harsh, but necessary words were said....

I want MK to change desperately..... i really do......