Dude, seriously, I am sick of this "I don't want a Tekken clone" crap. Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, Tekken, freaking Tobal are all solid games. They all make sense while the new MKs do not. And guess what? They're nothing, I mean NOTHING like each other. Tekken came out after Virtua Fighter but is it a VF clone? Soul Calibur came even later but is it a Tekken clone? NO! When are people going to get it through their head that MK will not be a damn clone of something else if it does things right? If you think that MK is going to be a Tekken clone if it actually does something right then prove it. Tell me exactly how. If you don't cite specifics then I'll assume, as will everyone else, that you don't know anything about either MK or Tekken beyond aestetics and therefore don't know enough to make the assessment that any solid fighting engine is a clone of Tekken. I probably won't get a real answer to this. I probably know what It'll be so let me save everyone the trouble.

"It's my opinion so back off. Tekken has teh movement and stuff so if MK does teh movement then it'll be Tekken. MK is about magic and fatalities so that is what makes it better than Tekken. Tekken is teh slowness so if MK does teh throw escapes it'll be teh slowness too and MK is not teh slowness but fast as it should be. I don't need this because I'm a true MK fan and if it takes shoddy animation, infinite combos, and game destroying glitches to separate it from Tekken then so be it. It's called an opinion and doesn't need to be backed up with facts."

If you honestly think that MK will be a Tekken clone if what was mentioned in this thread is added then at least prove that you know something about Tekken. Otherwise this arguement isn't worth it's weight in salt. And what's with this "MK has it's own feel" arguement? MK's aesthetics like magic and crap isn't a feel it's just that, aesthetics. It's "feel" right now is choppy, glitchy gameplay. Do you like having infinites? Do you like everything being punishable on block? Do you like "flight mode"? That is MK's feel right now.

I would've said that but I was trying to be polite



But seriously though, Tony is right. Putting all these gameplay ideas in MKs fighting engine wouldn't make it a clone of anything, in fact, it would make Mortal Kombat the most unique fighting game out there...

I'm sorry, cartmansp, but we've been hearing that arguement for the last year. A YEAR. And every single time it's been debated there has never been any substance behind it but it keeps coming back. No matter how often it's torn apart based on logic alone it keeps coming back. I don't like the tone of my recent posts either. I'll try to calm down and not freak out over this so I apologize in advance for the rudeness of that post.

Nothing is wrong with stealing gameplay elements from other fighters.In fact,Tekken 5 did from the Virtua Fighter series.Namco officially once stated they wanted to go into a the same direction the VF series is going.I've been visiting TZ for almost two years now and nobody made a big deal out of it.

The second thing is that even if the MK team stole some gameplay elements from other fighters,the average fan wouldn't probably even notice.You'd have to explore the engines in both games (i.e. Tekken and MK) in order to jump to that conclusion.Let's not get silly,in both fighting games,the casual gamer doesn't explore specific gameplay elements and compares them to other fighting games.Thus,at the end,it's irrelevant.

Give MK what it needs.Move properties,unique frame data for every move,frame advantage and block stun,throw properties and special throws,throw escapes,make the walls useful by adding wall stuns for God's sake or something,add parries and reversals to make the gameplay more interesting,etc,

Shit,there's sooooo much to add if one thinks about it.

Also,I did write some gameplay related shit at www.gamefaqs.com as well.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=919922&topic;=17017101

I knew MK:D was going to suck from the beginning.Thus,I want people to realize why it's like that.It's not long as Tran's but I believe I covered some good stuff to keep people interested.I'm not a big MK fan,but MK needs help.

I think MK is the most unique fighting game and it should stay true to its bashee style of game play. Like I said why should all games go for realism. As long as the collision and timing of attacks are dead on with no delay there should me no problem with any MK fighting engines and the creators should realize that. There also should be evenmore emphasis on gore detail . MKD is the best MK to date to me. I actually went out and brought MK2 and I could not belive that was fun. I geeked on it back then though, even XBANDed MK3 .

I use to be close minded when it come to MK but then I got my hand on DOAU two days ago and while playing online with DOAU I realize that I must break down and learn the gameplay. After playing DOAU and going back to playing MKD I can see the flaw in the gameplay and somewhat limited to what I can do with the combo. There are room for improvement for the next MK game but it is up to Boon to see that.

This is the ONLY thread in here that tells the truth...

Its like I cant even really take the game seriously anymore....

Well Tony, I was trying to express a concern I had. I'm sorry it somehow offended you. Yes, I do know about Tekken. I am sorry you, and many others, cannot accept that some people just do not find it fun. I am also convinced from the attitudes on this thread that some people just cannot accept the fact that people really DO find MK fun as it is.
I was not here to argue, just express a concern I had, that is it.
Given your attitude, I would rather not waste my time speaking with you, as anyone that seems to disagree with you, or anyone that seems to have fun with MKD, obviously is a moron and knows NOTHING about fighting games. Riiight.....
And I WAS polite
Have a day.

Now since we have fatalities o plenty the gameplay should be a little more technical is what everybody is saying right? Ok a little more maybe but not too technical. The game should never be as technical as say,VF where you have to learn all you counters your tech hits your reveresals then your counter reversals then your reverse counters , counter counters, tech reresals then your reverse reversals.....Its like Boon said this is not a reality based game. So maybe they will throw some of that stuff in the next one for the technical fans to it more in depth but not too much because thats out there already.

I indeed did apologize about the tone of that post but you need to understand where I am coming from. I, along with everyone here, has been hearing that arguement forever and every time we get nothing backing it up. The point is, you say you have fun but you are unwilling to admit the game is glitchy as all hell. Big glitches. What's fun about that? You still didn't answer my question. I supose I was right about my assumption of your answer though. The MK engine does not make sense. It's not logical. That is a fact. It can be proven and if you want I can do that. I just want someone to finally use facts to back up the "It'll be like Tekken" arguement. Why is it so hard to get a response to that?

Even in the sense of aesthetics, and atmosphere, MK still craps out. The atmosphere is not allowed to extend its full range to players due to mediocre graphics/visuals and mosty uninspired attacks and fatalities.

And on the subject of realism...Tekken is not realistic. No fucking way. It just has a fighting enging that works. Pretty damn well too, I should add. Most of the attacks several characters have do not exist. Someone try and tell me where they have seen an exhibition match between two Tae Kwan Do specialists in which one ofthem pulls off Bob's u/f+3,4,3. Or tell me where you have seen any martial artist pull off Law's 3+4, then f,f+3 to juggle.

Tekken is more realistic in terms of move properties and animation than MK (Eg: Dragon 1,1,2 vs King's f,n,d,d/f,f+1+2; one of them looks like it could actually bounce the opponent), but it is nowhere near exhibiting true realism. It feels much better, too.

Eg: How in the fuck can Dragon b+4 hit mid and b+2 hit high, when they both hit at the same height range?

Appology accepted.
I can though, and do, understand your passion to make MK better.
As for an answer, it is just a concern of mine, not an arguement I am trying to make.
I love MK. Always have. Yes, I do want it to be better, but I ALSO want it to play differently from other fighters. Adapting many of the solutions in this thread seem to be adapting many of the same mechanics that games like Tekken and VF use. And, in using the same mechanics, it seems it would turn MK into another one of THOSE games. THAT is why I was saying what I said. And then again, there ARE some things in this thread that are universal to fighting games that SHOULD be incorporated. I can see that.
Maybe it would make the game better. But it could also go the other way and indeed turn it into a tekken clone. It could go either way. And that is something I just do not want to see happen.
I am trying to be as clear as I can here. Yes, I want MK to be better, but I also have fun as it is now. And I do not want it to turn into just another fighter clone, albeit with blood and gore. I want it to play DIFFERENT. If it could play different from all other games, still retain it's MK feel and style, and still be a huge improvement, then yes, I would be in fighting nirvana.
IF it could be done.
Time will tell though.

I just royally kicked JAX007's ass, and he quit. He called me a loser, because I was 'running around in circles'.

In case you didn't know, that's the fucking point. You move around to evade shit. Don't be angry because I am doing what is supposed to be done in a game like this. Blame yourself for not being able to block effectively, and blame the developers for giving you such few options.

Seriously now, this is why MK fighting games are horrible, and will stay like that.

Here's a tip: Stick to MK Art. At least you're good at that, eh?

Do you think that Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and Soul Calibur are clones of each other? They are all solid games but are nothing like each other. It's like how The Undertaker and Hulk Hogan are different. They both know the basics of how to take hits without getting hurt and how to hit people without hurting them but they are completely different in style. MK's style is not going to be affected at all. The style and core engine of a fighting game are two completely unrelated things. One does not affect the other, ever. Right now, MK's engine is glitchy and broken. Is that a good way of separating it from the "other" games? How is applying proper frame calculations and move properties going to make it a "clone"? Is Bon Jovi a clone of Elvis because they both sing?

The Tiger is right MK will always keep its style eventhough it looked as if MKDA had more Fung Fu than most MK's . If that game had all the fatalities this one has and was a bit faster It might be better than this one.

OK WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!? I don't even play online! Whoever is using Jax007 is not me.

Fuck this person, Im highly pissed right now.

Online's a disaster too but admittedly not because of Midway. Who disconnects, who complains about throws being cheap, who cares so much about their record they won't even play someone in a friendly match but talk shit anyway, who is stealing usernames. Sadly, there's no way to fix this. Online play is like a welcome mat for the crap you'd never see in a real arcade.

I think this thread brings a lot of good points, however, I still believe MKDA was a step in the right direction; MK1-4 were terrible games objectively; they're atleast starting to go somewhere.

Indeed; that was HIGHLY uncalled for, Star. Even if it was our JAX007.

LOL!! I thought it was kind of funny, actually. Internet thugs jacking usernames; just too good, lol.

Yah, online is wonky. Heh, one aspect that's nice about arcades is that if a fool gets pissed and just leaves, your buddy gets a free round or two, lol. Good stuff.

Peeps always act like clowns, though. It's a lot easier to call something "cheap" and bitch than it is to actualy take personal responsablity for sucking. Some dudes just need to channel that negativity into something posative; all zen style. Like a ninja, woot!! ^_^

What I believe they need to do more is refine the martial arts in the game. A Mountain Punch would not effing pop your enemy into the air. Hell, nobody would be knocked into the air that high with one simple hit. Sai style should have more defensive moves and counters. There should not just be one generic block, but many different defensive moves, depending on the style. And Breakers shouldn't suck so much.

I think you understand my concern Tony. Neither of the games you mentioned are very fun to me, and do not hold my interest that long. That is what they have in common, for me. And the day MK becomes like that, as I said, is the day I quit playing. Fine, I hope the devs do apply move properties, proper frame calculations..etc etc. Then we will see if it really does improve the game, or if it does lose its MK feel afterall.
And nope, never seen Bon Jovi in a white vegas suit, nor have I seen Elvis don lavender pants....



Do you think that Virtua Fighter, Tekken, and Soul Calibur are clones of each other? They are all solid games but are nothing like each other. It's like how The Undertaker and Hulk Hogan are different. They both know the basics of how to take hits without getting hurt and how to hit people without hurting them but they are completely different in style. MK's style is not going to be affected at all. The style and core engine of a fighting game are two completely unrelated things. One does not affect the other, ever. Right now, MK's engine is glitchy and broken. Is that a good way of separating it from the "other" games? How is applying proper frame calculations and move properties going to make it a "clone"? Is Bon Jovi a clone of Elvis because they both sing?

I think people are getting the wrong idea...

Some people think that if we improve the gameplay, it will take away from the unique atmosphere (like blood, gore, character developement, story, unique levels, sinister feel, ect.) and that's just not so...

Mk can have it's own, creative, style and a good fighting engine...

I sorta look at MKD like MK2. The only change in gameplay was the back-kick, the rest was all about adding content.