*raises hand*

I have a question I'd like to pose to the class.

Now, I DO believe NRS have every intention in having these new characters be mainstays. Of course not all(If we're talking 10-12) will make it in MK11 and may not progress, but odds are a good number of them will. I think NRS themselves loves the newbies they cooked up and so do I.

But...if most of these newbies are indeed drop kicked to the side and are never seen again(outside of Trilogy type games), then how will we justify that

Just curious. And no, this isn't me trying to throw shade about the roster or the roster number, I'm burned out on that whole debate.

I do believe that a fair amount of these new characters will be future mainstays. Cassie, D'Vorah, and Kotal all already seem like they could be very interesting moving forward. I'd check out Kotal in anything he was doing.

With that said, even if NRS does decide to not move forward with the new characters for whatever reason, I don't think that will really need "justification". Just like I don't think NRS needs to justify not revisiting Kira, Drahmin, etc. now. It's just not that big of a deal. They will have had a good splash in MKX (which seems like it will be extremely well polished) so that's already a good run.

I would be pretty upset if the new guys are only around for one game...I've seen many interviews where they claim the new guys will around fore years to come, so I HOPE they are serious about it.

I want the "New Generation"

HORROR SCENARIO DETECTED!

As Sonya Bland has to be in EVERY FREAKING GAME, and this Cassie daughter is here to stay, these FREAKING family members have to waste every freaking game that is still to come.

I hope Cassie replaces sonya, or she isn't so stay-worthy afterall.

One BBB (Bland, Boring, Blond) in a game is more than enough to handle.

My long winded post got skipped over, but I would like to reiterate the last paragraph and go into further detail now that I'm not rushed for class.

No era of characters have been proven to have been abandoned!

There seems to be this consensus, in several threads, that MK4-MKD era of characters were cast aside and forgotten. Where is the evidence of this? Before anybody jumps to start making cases and pointing fingers, let me make mine.

The characters of MK1-3 had to sit out from games after their debut, as well.
Here's a list of those who debuted in a game, then had to sit out in at least 2.
MK1
Sonya: MK2 and Deception
Kano: MK2, MK4, and Deception

MK2 (6 of 7 appeared in the next 2 games)
Baraka: MK3, MKDA

MK3 (2 of 11 appeared in the next 2 games)
Kabal: MK4, MKDA
Jade: MK4, MKDA
Sindel: MK4, MKDA
Sheeva: MK4, MKDA, MKD
Nightwolf: MK4, MKDA
Sektor: MKDA, MKD
Ermac: MK4, MKDA
Rain: MK4, MKDA, MKD
Stryker: MK4, MKDA

Notice how many characters had to sit out the game following their debut? And notice how many had to sit out more than once?

Let's take a look at MK4 and MKDA:

MK4 (2 out of 7 appeared in the next 2 games)
Fujin: MKDA, MKD
Jarek: MKDA, MKD
Reiko: MKDA, MKD
Shinnok: MKDA, MKD
Kai: MKDA, MKD

MKDA (3 out of 9(Frost and Blaze in unchained exempt) appeared in the next game (hasn't been a 2nd NEW MK))
Drahmin: MKD
Mavado: MKD
Hsu Hao: MKD
Nitara: MKD

It's worth noting, that there hasn't been another NEW MK since Deception, for MK4, MKDA, and MKD characters to be featured in. Also, one has to take into account some of these characters were killed in their respective game debut, or intend bio/ending of the following game. Thus, explaining why they weren't in that game. For instance, Hsu Hao being killed by Jax, Mavado by Kaba, Jarek by Jax etc.

So with all of that said, when you break it down and realize MKD was the end of the NEW Mortal Kombat storytelling(Armageddon was a trilogy 2.0, MK vs DC was a crossover, and MK9 was a reboot/re telling of MK1-3), so really, MK4-MKD characters have not been cast aside. Not in any different fashion than MK1-3 characters did before them. Especially when you look at MK3's debuting characters and the fact that they sat out the next 2 games. It's certainly possible if the timeline didn't hit the brick wall that was Armageddon, we would have potentially seen more returnees from 2 games prior and beyond. But not everyone needs to be brought back, nor do they have to be brought back immediately, otherwise it's "they threw them away".

Guys, the roster is now upwards of 65+ characters come MKX, people will be left out. That doesn't mean they are gone forever. And not everyone that debuted needs 2nd and 3rd chances. Just like any movie or ongoing story, you have your leading actors/actresses, your supporting actors/actresses, your one offs, your extras etc. etc. Problem is, people think everyone deserves or needs to be a leading actor/actress, and that's just not how storytelling works. You read comics, not every issue or story arch features every villain, every ally etc. You alternate. But some will be featured more than others. That's just how it goes. MK is no different.

All you had to do was count the number of boxes or do 2x12 and get 24 and add an estimate of how many DLCs you think will be in..

So it's not news.

Don't really expect you to understand, it's a writer's point of view. You create a character, you hold the responsibility to follow through with it and give that character a beginning, middle and end to its narrative arc, not to just give up half way through and say "To hell with this." If it's never published that's one thing (like many of the character outlines and sketches we've seen) but once its out to the public, that's a totally different ballgame. And again with the quota thing, you're making it sound like I'm making it a requirement to have so many characters brought back per title, I am not. So let me break this down for you; what I am saying is where the laziness comes through is the fact that they keep bringing back THE. SAME. CHARACTERS. and have yet to show me otherwise any such proof that they are willing to do so and put in the work for anybody else outside of MK1-MK3, Quan Chi and Kenshi.

Your argument about these new team members wanting to create new characters and maybe not wanting to work on the MK4 and onwards cast is plainly an easy way out because the same could apply to them not wanting to work on the MK1-MK3 cast as well yet clearly, there is no problem there. Why? Probably because they've had the spotlight before and don't need as much work done to them. Honestly speaking, I've seen more creativity on this board in the past 6 years in terms of ideas for character development than I've seen in any of the games as of late (which is why I won't even be bothered to go into my problems with MK9's story).

As a writer, of course I understand the need to have characters fill your story that belong and service your plot, but seeing as this game is a direct sequel to MK9 and spans the years of the said games I'm arguing for, there's absolutely NO valid reason what-so-ever that they shouldn't at least be bothered to put in ANY character from those games. No, I'm not saying ALL of them deserve a spot in the roster, I'm not saying all of them SHOULD come back either because lets face it, a good number of them were poorly handled in story, design and gameplay HOWEVER there are still those handful of characters that should return and deserve just as much of a re-do as Stryker, Sheeva, Rain and others from MK9. Failing to at least acknowledge and cover that ground, story wise, IS a complete failure and laziness as based just off of where the plot left off from MK9 alone and going in blind to MKX, I can think of at least 3 characters that could EASILY slip into any given plot that would drive the story forward. Of course the roster hasn't been fully revealed yet so I could just be speaking entirely out of my ass, but my point still stays until that day comes when and if I'm proven wrong.

That's perfect. As long as they're as exciting as the ones already revealed.

Can you not overreact to stuff? It's not the end of the world.

You're quite condescending and presumptuous, aren't you? You insist on continually bringing up that you're a writer and implying that it gives you a special insight into how NRS should be doing their jobs. lolz

I don't expect you to understand that there are crucial differences between writing a novel and writing a story for a fighting game. You are obviously convinced otherwise, just as you are convinced that NRS is doing its characters some injustice.

I'm done talking in circles about this and I'd hate to take anymore time away from your prized profession of crafting prose, Mr. writer guy.

And some people have the nerve to say these 2 characters get special treatment, when in reality they've sat out as many mainline titles as some MK3 chars.

And some people have the nerve to say "all the MK1 chars are overused" when in reality there's more MK1 chars missing from sequels, than MK2 orginals.

There is absolutely no difference what-so-ever between outlining a novel and outlining a story for a video game, especially for MK seeing as NRS now takes a more narrative story campaign over bios and endings. If anything, that gives them an even bigger platform for storytelling as they have to fill a 2-3 hour gap of cinematics.

And again with the words in my mouth, seriously? I never implied NRS are shitty at their jobs, what I OUTRIGHT said is the way they go about treating over half of their characters story-wise is lazy and has been lazy for years. They take the easy way out. Doesn't mean its necessarily bad, doesn't mean it's necessarily good either, it's a matter of opinion, and in this case my opinion is they are not doing most of their characters justice.

When writing ANYTHING, you make notes, you outline a story, you make sure your characters are fully developed, you look for plot holes and inconsistencies, ect ect. The only different is a novel is much longer than a game however the way you go about writing them? Exactly the same. There is just more cut and paste for a game.

As an aside, no idea why you're taking to calling me shit over such a pointless topic where my opinion is my opinion and I'm only arguing my point of view about how I feel they mishandle a lot of their characters unfairly and if you don't like it, then skip my posts? Easy as that.

I care about story and character development for ALL of the MK kast. If you don't, that's you and that's fine.

The reason I feel 24 is extremely disappointing is cuz not only is half of them New but it looks like we r getting everyone from MK1 plus Quan Chi n I guarantee shinnock will b there so that leaves about 3 open spots left n thats BS. So this is how its shaping up to be


Sub Zero
Scorpion
Raiden
Kano
Quan.Chi
Kotal Kahn
Cassie Cage
D'Vorah
Ferra/Torr
New
New
New
New
New
New
New
New
Shinnock
Liu Kang
Johnny Cage
Sonya


3 left hopefully will be Tanya,Havik n Reiko

DLC should sell very well.now that they r on ps3,ps4,xbox 360 n xbox one. I think they would be foolish to stop at 6 kharacters. With so many klassics being left out,they could bank on DLC,especially on 4 systems. I dont count PC, cuz DLC will being nothing to them lol.Id like to see 3 4 packs

Guest
Kitana
Mileena
Shang Tsung

Reptile
Ermac
Noob Saibot
Tremor


Kung Lao
Baraka
Cyrax
Sektor

Looks good to me.

Also, of the three extras you threw out, I think only Tanya has a real chance at this point, followed by Havik, with Reiko trailing far, far behind.

Seeing as I've been a bit of a downer in this thread, I would however like to point out that I do like the stylistic choices they're attempting, I like the four new characters shown and I like the basic premise for the story (as little of it we actually know).

I just want my points acknowledged, that I spent 25 minutes typing on my damn iphone. That took work. Real work... : /

lol I saw your post, cyborg and while I understand and see your valid points, I just cant help shaking the feeling of not even the team itself but Boons distaste with that era of MK in general. There are characters like Quan Chi, Kenshi and Tanya that Boon obviously likes (given that he answered my tweet once and replied he'd rather Tanya come back from a random group).

Then there are characters I think he doesnt care that much about that have so much untapped potential; Shinnok, Bo Rai Cho, Fujin, Reiko, Ashrah, Havik, Sareena...

Thats my biggest beef. If this game managed to give me even just two more of those (or any) besides Quan Chi, I'd easily admit I was wrong but I just dont see them returning anytime soon and that saddens me.

I also understand that we havent gotten a true sequel game since 2004 (10 years already?!?) but I cant help feeling they'll probably skip that era in general or dramatically change it as an excuse for them to either a) be dead like poor Moloch or b) not be involved (yet). Sorry for any grammatical errors but I'm not on my computer at the moment.

Ok my prediction for 24 characters:

Kotal Khan
Ferra/Torr
D'vorah
Cassie Cage

Raiden
Sub-Zero
Scorpion
Kano
Quan-Chi

New
New
New
New
New
New

Ermac
Mileena
Havik
Shinnok
Cyrax
Fujin
Kenshi
Reptile
Tanya




You made a very good point, we have only one official MK title for the PS3 era and it was sort of a compilation MK1-3, from this point onwards we will see if the post Mk3 characters were truly forgotten.

@blackcyborg: Well said but Sektor was in Deadly Alliance(GBA version). Other than that spot on.

As a publishing writer, I get what you are saying, but no. There are differences, quite a few. Concerning the problems we are takling about those are not that much relevant though.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to figure the portable games into that. If we count those, Noob was in Deadly Alliance as well. Kitana, Frost, Jax, and Blaze would be considered in Deception.

I struggled with UMK3, and MK Gold as well. Ultimately I figured those in, even though in Gold's case, it wasn't the standard version that everyone got to play.

Regardless, the point I felt was made, in that every game has introduced new people, that inevitably had to sit out a game or two afterwards, some not showing up for another 3 games. So it shouldn't be a cut and dry confirmation by any means, that the MK4-MKD characters were never going to receive another chance. The thing about introducing new characters is, is that there's going to be older characters left out. It happens every game, and the roster isn't getting any smaller.

But the cream always rises to the top, and the best characters have remained a part of the series. MK4 gave us Quan Chi, a great character, like him or not. He wasn't great just because he was given more chances, he was great because he had a unique look, unique specials, a great introduction, and was easily the best debut in that game. Tanya was decent enough to warrant a Deception role. So MK4 was not abandoned. MK:DA characters Kenshi, Bo, and Li Mei were all in the very next game.

People expecting every debuting character each game, to come back in the next game or two...it just doesn't work that way. It never has, for any game in the series. Like I showed above, MK3 characters had it the worst, most not returning until 3 games later.

Lastly, not every character needs to return. I can't emphasize that enough. Jarek, Hsu Hao, Kobra, Mokap, Blaze, Drahmin, Movado, Taven, Daegon, Darrius, Dairou etc. They were not the cream of the crop, so don't expect them to come back. The roster is ever expanding, constantly adding to an already high numbered roster. Only the characters with true potential, unique appearances, moves, story, and somewhat of a popularity backing them(a real fanbase, not just a "hey nobody cared for this guy, so lets all start liking him 10-15 years later" type of way...are going to survive. That goes with any franchise/series with so many characters. You have winners, and you have losers. None of this "everybody gets a trophy" of today mentality!

However...Fujin, Reiko, Tanya, Nitara, Bo, Frost, Li Mei, Havik, Ashrah, and Hotaru...I doubt we've seen the last of them.

I'd argue that it wouldn't need to be justified. That's simply the nature of the series.

There are differences, yes, as in the need for endless NPC dialogue, side quests, alternate endings if needed, blah blah blah. But as a narrative component, it's essentially the same with building a story including and concerning character development.

24 characters? Hmm... I can't say I'm surprised by this, because I learned to expect the wort-case scenario, which was 24 characters based on every version of the select screen seen so far.

I'm not quite going to put 100% of my belief in this just yet, but if it does turn out to be true, It's a little lackluster for me. I don't think 24 is a good number, and it's a stretch to say it's reasonable with people wanting a lot of new characters and still wanting a bunch of post-mk3 characters and the must-haves. Someone's going to be left unhappy.

Three variations per character does not justify having less characters in my opinion, because all the variations do is change a few of the character's special moves. It's not like they had to rewire the entire character to create another variation. If they really had to sacrifice anything character-wise for variations, I would say they're not really that worth it.

If this is true then I think this game will need a lot of DLC. And if that' the case I'll probably wait and see if a complete edition comes out, because as much as I love and want to support Mortal Kombat, I'm not going to pay extra for something I feel I shouldn't need to.

That is exactly not what I meant by differences.

The mere fact that it is a video game predisposes you to a certain method, aim and the fact that there is interactuivity severely restricts you. A story can only work if it is compatible with a video game model.

You cannot write Ulysses as a video game, and you cannot write a video game such as Ulysses. Or Doctor Zhivago. So no, there are fundamental differences.

And keep in mind, that MK is not a literary piece of art, because it wasn't intended as in the first place.