See, this is what I don't get about SJWs.


Wouldn't they prefer their own original characters?


Isn't turning a straight male character female/black/gay/whatever instead of creating unique minority characters, y'know... one of those evil tropes they hate so much?


I have issues with it simply because it's so goddamn weird to me that, instead of inventing new and original ideas to empower women or dismantle the patriarchy or whatever the fuck their endgame is, they take existing, established characters, and transmogrify them into something else to fill the minority quota.

You're not actually creating something new - you're changing or taking away something that already existed.

Personally, if I were a minority, I'd be fucking insulted, because it feels like they're saying "Hey look, we care, but not enough to make an unique character. But don't worry, we took this already established one and slapped a pair of tits on it, aren't we so progressive?"

Isn't it interesting that minorities are just that?....

I do not want homosexuality brought into Mortal Kombat. This is a fighting game- bottom line.

Sadly, many people being educated today, particularly in western culture are being breast fed such incorrigible and diabolical propaganda from various institutions.

And these 'lemmings' under the tutelage of such licentious teachers have the audacity to tell me and my fellow peers that- "you should accept that". It amazes me how people are so easily lead; they act so imprudently, parroting such garbage.

Homosexuality is not only morally bankrupt, it is biologically wrong.

Proponents of homosexuality are responsible for the decay of denizens morals.

It's pure Marxism. And what was Marxism for the educated members of this board?

Close thread; end of story.

You're so weird. Can we be gay together?

Doing something new/original is too much work for them and it's not quick and easy enough to get virtual pats on the back from their internet friends, but they can just say "What if Spider-Man were gay" and get called brave and progressive.

Nah, I don't think you two could ever be happy together.

What Outworld emperor practiced that one again?

Oh, you...

Wait, wasn't I trying to kill you earlier?

*pulls out chainsaw*

You're the little bloke who didn't get my llama quip?

Y-yes. Sorry. The m-mental acuity that must have gone into making such an stereotypical and p-predictable remark. It was intimidating enough that I focused on your inability to properly spell "you're" instead. Sorry again, sir.

Thank you. One has to adjust the joke meter when applicable.

I did my best to parse this properly but I don't know how to do all the better formatting on here.

"Also, what's the deal with everyone trying to attach gay subtext to Johnny Cage, the guy who's been chasing after Sonya throughout the comics, the movies, and the games (esp. apparent in MK:DA and MK9?)
At least pick a remotely sensible person to apply that theory to."

No one is trying to attach gay subtext to Johnny, but rather demonstrating that he is very visibly straight, and that his way of being straight could very easily be applied to a gay character.

"The only way this would work and be accepted is if NRS introduced an entirely new character and they happened to be gay. Like it could work for Takeda, Erron Black and Kung Jin because they're all new and we barely know what their story is at the moment."

Yeah sure, why not. That makes sense, and I wasn't just arguing that it should be an old character made gay.

"And do we want to open that can of worms? Mortal Kombat used to get criticized for being violent and if they start adding gay characters there will be people who criticize them for representing homosexuality in a negative light and will never shut up demanding an apology of some sort from NRS."

That's a very strange example of what would happen. Most of the time the complain would be that they're a stereotype, which if they decide to make them flamboyant and wearing a rainbow cape, would happen. But done relatively tastefully, would only go down well and bring some good publicity.

"It's just kinda cool to have diversity. I think it's awesome we got Jacqui in this game, now we have another black fighter to play as. Tekken just got a middle eastern guy who as an awesome design. I don't think its too much to ask for a fighter who is a bit different from the others. It cool from a design/backstory point of view. It doesn't have to actually factor into the game's fighting mechanics/ story mode at all. It's more like "Hey, that character is *blank* just like me! Cool.""

Exactly.

"In all seriousness, sexual orientation should have nothing to do with a fighting game. Purposely having a gay character just for the sake of it will cause backlash by the fanbase. Some may like it, but I think looking at the big picture it will hurt the franchise more then it will help it. As mentioned by gay MKO users on this site (majority) seem to dislike the idea so it serves as a quick reflection on the idea of a character that is gay/lesbian.

In my opinion, fighting games that have obvious gay/lesbian characters are just seeking cheap heat/pop with those characters. It's poor, lazy, and demonstrates a lack of creativity by the designers and producers."

Then why have all these straight couples and love interests? If you argue that it's for the sake of having children, why not have an adopted baby? Or is having only straight characters and the typical family set-up the 'creative' option, as opposed to diversity? Because whilst diversity for diversity's sake could be seen as uncreative, I think it's already more creative than monotony.

"I do agree that homophobia will always be an issue in the gaming community (including in here), but the truth is there are no openly gay characters in Mortal Kombat because their sexuality has zero significance in the storyline."

The storyline could very easily have relevance to a character's sexuality. In the exact same way that Johnny Cage's overt heterosexuality is important: characterization. Look at my next two posts for an example of a storyline affected by a gay character.

Sub-Zero - "Takahashi Takeda. Jacqueline Briggs. Kung Jin. You are not welcome here... Especially you, Jacqui."

This was really funny. I just wanted to say that.

"MK9 Smoke had a certain vibe that made a lot of people think he was gay, without him ever coming right out and saying anything. Some people hated him for various reasons, but he proved to be fairly popular overall. That's a step in the right direction, I think.

If they did make a character who was clearly gay or bi, they'd have to do it carefully. If it's too obvious they're just doing it for the diversity, then it's a contrived effort that loses its meaning.

It's somewhat paradoxical, but the best way to draw positive attention to a minority position is to carry on like everything is normal instead of drawing attention to it. In real life this translates to, "If you want to be treated the same, stop rubbing it in people's faces how separate and different you are." In media, that means seamlessly integrating characters who can easily be interpreted as gay, but never saying anything about it, so that the character is cool on its own merits and their sexuality becomes cool by association. Characters like Smoke, and to some extent Rain, do that pretty well. So do games that let you choose your protagonist's sexuality as an inconsequential background option, like Mass Effect and Fable.

P.S. -- There really is nothing wrong with having discussions like these. Part of the reason I think this thread is succeeding better than the others is that the opening post seems a little more like a person is inviting a reasonable discussion, and a little less like a political antagonizer or someone who wants to add tacky elements to the game that would do far more harm than good. It's fairly civil in here, and that's why this is the first such thread I've bothered to participate in.

I applaud this thread."

I thought this was well written. (Thanks btw.)

One caveat I would include however, is that 'homosexuality' like Smoke in MK9 isn't in any way representation, because it's not canonical and easily explained away. It feels like it essentially amounts to hey gays are OK but just icky enough that we can't actually mention them.

"There is nothing wrong with having this type of discussion whatsoever, but this often?

Nah man that shit grows tiresome real fast, as it's been stated before
diversity for the sake of diversity falls flat and seems forced. Has a characters
sexual orientation been relevant in MK before? Absolutely not so why start now?"

Well people have this conversation often because we want to be heard and we want things to happen. Much like how Tremor is brought up so much and now he might be DLC because people have payed attention to it.

Also, if you think it gets tiring dealing with gay people who talk about their thoughts on better media representation imagine dealing with bad media representation. We're tired too. :/

And the last point about it not being important, please re-read the main post. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND BLATANT WITH MANY CHARACTERS.

I feel like it amounts to people assuming things about Smoke because they like the idea of it. Which is fine really, but even when I look at this cutscenes with the idea in mind that he would be gay for Kuai Liang I don't see it.

That scene where he ran to Cyber Kuai didn't really help matters. lol

I'm quoting this separately because it's in my opinion, the worst post in here.

You took what I said out of context.
I did not say that it needs to be a character changed to be gay. I said that " the character [does not need] to have a focus on their sexuality" BECAUSE they do not need to be written any differently from a straight character. I.E. Imagine creating a straight character then changing them; you do not need to think of how to make a character gay or write them much more differently beyond their sexuality.

And for anyone talking about story significance. Think about this as an idea:

The four main descendants are all in the group they're in now. They are the same characters. However, only Takeda, Kung Jin, and Cassie are biologically the children of other characters or 'champions', if you will. Jax is gay, and adopted Jacqui, raising her as his own.

However, she feels conflicted because the rest of her group has inherited great power from their parents who are powerful warriors AND been trained by them. However, she has only been trained, and so is insecure about her abilities compared to the rest of the group, and doubts herself. Over the course of the story, she grows to realize that she can hold her own and joins the other warriors in the final battle, confident in her skills, despite not necessarily having the genes of two champions like for example, or any inherited powers. She gains confidence even though she is initially jealous and insecure.

Character development, story significance, gay representation.

"Sub-Zero? Is that - anh DAMNIT this fucking wedgie"

This is pretty good. Mind if I shamelessly steal it?

I didn't know he could get a wedgie in all that armor.

For what? Lol. Sure feel free.

But send me whatever you're using it for.

Diversity is good? Are you serious man?!

You minority sympathisers label people that detest homosexuals "ignorant" and "bigoted". Yet, not one of the proponents of homosexuals will enter a polemical debate with worthy rhetoric.

I think it would be best you researched the matter a little more thoroughly.

It's diversity that has been (and is) the destruction of Europe, USA and Australia. The malignant tumour continues to thrive right under the noses of ignorance; people that feel that liberation of a minority benefits society. It does not.

The person who commenced this thread should bury his head. I find your discourse extremely offensive. It has no place on this forum.

I really, REALLY hate these goddamn threads that seem to pop up once a month.

People who are begging for gay characters in Mortal Kombat will never be happy regardless if they throw gay characters in the game or not, because if they ever do make it in all you will do is bitch about their treatment as a character or the fact that all they do is portray negative stereotypes about the homosexual community.

Please stop making these threads special snowflakes.

Kiwi, we articulate it differently, but I welcome your post this heinous thread.

I have no problems whith gays, in fact a few of my friends are homosexual, that is why (notice no 'but') I will explain why this would be a terrible idea.

Sexual orientation was never a part of MK really. Aside from some romantic relations hinted at (notice, not even a kiss going on on scene) in the games' few characters, MK never really explained the sexual orientation of characters like smoke, Hsu-hao, Darrious, Kano, etc.

Now let's just say we put in a homosexual character into the game. How would that be represented? As there is no representation of sexualism really, just hints and mentions, would there be a hint at the character being romantically involved with another of his/her own gender? Would that add depth? Would you main that character just for that reason? Would it really change anything rather than point out "oh yeah, and he is gay btw".

Or do you want this character to be represented as gay, and have his style/moves reflect that? Then tell me, how does gay fighting look like? This is a game about ripping other characters apart. Is there a homosexual or a heterosexual way of doing that?

Can a character be gay without over exaggerating the fact that he or she is gay? In the end why does anybody care? It doesn't matter. That is equalism, actually, that gay characters are not singled out. Who knows, maybe Kai for e.g. was gay. Would knowing that make any change in his character? Because sexual orientation is not definitive of someone. It does not make them uniquie, or stand out. If it does, than that is by itself not politically correct.

Also think about the implication. A game where you can dismember/gut/castrate (Cassies X-ray) gay people? Do you think NRS wants the media shitstorm they would get if that happened?