I don't know about all that now.

Yeah everyone in Tekken that's not Jin, Kazuya, or Heihachi is important to the main plot. But you could say the same about MK. Especially with Mortal Kombat 2011. That focused on Raiden, Liu Kang, Quan Chi, and Shao Kahn. Pretty much everyone else had nothing to do with the main plot.

Tekken also has notable sub plots as well. King, Paul, Nina, Yoshimitsu, and Asuka all have side stories that are pretty well known.

With Liu Kang dying in both timelines I'd say he is not the pivot of the story anymore.

You can't seriously be saying Tekken has a story. The endings are literally ALL comedy relief and one of the main characters is a bear that thinks he's people.

No it definitely does. It revolves around the Mishimas and the whole Devil Gene situation. Mostly about Jin trying to rid himself of the Devil Gene and Heihachi and Kazuya trying to kill each other.

It is certainly not as in depth as MK, but it does have a story. As for Kuma, he is in the same boat as mostly everyone in that he's just a secondary character.

I know it TRIES to have a story. I don't agree that it ever succeeded.

I've played most of the major fighting franchises and, being the kind of gamer/entertainment consumer I am, one who values storytelling no matter the vehicle used to deliver it, immediately looked into their lores. My opinions run as follows:

Street Fighter's seems shallow and meaningless to the casual observer, but has surprising depth, mostly thanks to anime and comic adaptations. (I also want to say I feel Assassin's Fist is the single best live action adaptation of a video game ever made to date and gamers as a people need to support it as hard as fucking possible if we ever want our material to experience the renaissance that comic book films have over the past decade and a half.)

Soul Calibur was ALMOST MK-tier in depth and detail for a long time, but lost its way with SC3 and never recovered.

Virtua Fighter...seems like it pays a little lip service to the idea of having story and bios/endings, just to follow the conventions of the genre, but seems to not actually care about it and is more focused on being as gameplay-centric as possible. I'd argue that's why VF didn't last long in the mainstream, all the characters come off as generic archetypes or templates with no identifying features beyond the martial art they use, so there's nothing for people to latch onto emotionally.

Tekken though? I without reservation rank it dead last in quality among what I've experienced. And I would bet real money it's worse than the ones I HAVEN'T tried like SNK stuff or Guilty Gear/BlazBlue too, simply because I can't imagine how it's even possible to top this level of garbage. (Plus I've heard GG is really good. I'd check it out but anime aesthetics and Japanese tropes aren't really to my taste.) Hell, I bet Divekick has better lore than Tekken, based on the same reason why I don't rank VF last: it's better to have no story on purpose than try to have a story and end up with bad comedy.

It's so bafflingly poorly done I can't even verbalize my feelings. I mean, have you seen Blood Vengeance?

I honestly and without irony believe that the live action movie did Tekken's story better than the games ever could, partly by leaving out the devil gene, mostly just by virtue of taking it seriously and bothering to be coherent.

I admit the execution of the story is lacking in every way. Especially with Tekken 6, by far the worst story of all the games.

I responded to the Tekken quote because it said people only know Jin because he's the main character in the main story, when really the subplots are more well known than the main plot.

Well as far as that goes, I feel like people know Eddy Gordo best out of all Tekken's characters since it was the first game to expose Capoeira to the mainstream so now whenever a gamer sees it in media, they usually specifically call out "Oh, he's like Eddy Gordo!"

I don't even think Jin is second, unfamiliar casuals would probably recognize Heihachi, Kazuya, and Paul Phoenix first for their more distinctive designs/hairstyles and the fact that Heihachi has been in crossovers.

Jin is definitely in the Top 5. He's been the face of the franchise since Tekken 3. And he has seen a crossover or 2 as well. Not as many as Heihachi though. But yeah Paul, King, and Yoshimitsu are easily more recognizable.

I've seen fanfics that have explored the Tekken characters better than the games had. It kinda sucks to get slightly interested in a character then have them get little attention. Have you played Eternal Champions? Thats another fighting game with an interesting story (the fatalities would have put MK to shame at the time it came out). Its too bad the series never went anywhere because I'd like to see more of it.

I was on the SNES side of the console wars as a kid, but my friend had a Genesis and Eternal Champions, so I played it once or twice. I recall it having a lot of downer endings (or bios?) about the main characters' deaths, sort of like a less edgy predecessor to the tone of Twisted Metal Black. That aspect of it left a big impression on me.

Maybe I am just too smart for you to understand correctly?
Or you just too limited in your vision and your approach for the things, so any kind of "out-of-the-box" thinking automatically causes you to rage on, because your "logic" can't compute it?
I've seen such people. They are quite petty.


You are delusional and idiotic.
Not all threads where I appear went awry. It's only happens, when people like you or you yourself appear and start spouting stupid nonsense. Nobody have appointed you in position to decide anything. You need to grow up for that.


You went of the rail dear.
You words are clearly mark that there is definitely something wrong with you.
Seems after so many time unchallenged and having flock of loyal asskissers, any opposition, no matter how minor it could be, throws you out of balance. You are fool, drunk with his own importance.

You think of yourself as the great good, but in reality you are the biggest problem. You so get used that everyone supports you, that as soon as somebody rises his voice, you immediately go into frenzied tantrum. You simply can't compute, how people can disagre with you, the great and always right Razor "mf-ing" Edge, the force of truth and justice!!

And this is your greatest downfall: as soon as you go of the rail, everyone can see what you are in reality: just a human being who think of himself too much. I am not alone in my opinion, there are others. But there are not as vocal as myself, because they know: opposing is futile, it's like convercing with toaster. I do it just for fun and because it always nice to see how supposedly mighty is falling. And you are falling, dear, so much. This is delicious.


Than you need better eyes or better glasses.


So, now you have become a social fighter?
Guess, I've really got you than. Which means I was right about everything that I said about you, which burns you deeply, so you become a provocator. Nice attitude...just who of us is more toxic in this case? Ha-ha-ha.

Nice way to demonstrate your closeminded approach. About Tekken I mean.

If you really believe all that, I feel sorry for you.

You're not some rising voice of dissent, you're just a jerk who can't be nice to anyone and can't admit when he's wrong.

I'm not a guy who goes around saying "I'm the Great Razor, I'm more important than everyone else", these are not events that have ever happened.

Anyone who knows how to use the search function can see for themselves which one of us contributes positively to the community and which one just runs around being an unwanted annoyance.
They can also see the jealousy in your motivation, your habit of targeting me, talking about me when I'm not even in the thread, how you've now added all this "ego" stuff to the narrative you're trying to sell...it clearly burns you up that I have what you call "fans", that other people see me as "the information guy" because YOU want to be the smartest guy in whatever room you walk into, to justify your pompous, condescending tone. You think you're such a superior intellectual...but gee, wouldn't a truly educated person have CORRECT data more often?
I'm going to let you in on the secret to my success, Chief: Why do people like me and agree with me so much? It's simple. BECAUSE I DON'T INSULT EVERY-FUCKIN'-BODY.
if you weren't so antisocial that even on the internet you have to act like a shut-in and lash out at everyone, and cared about being PART of a community and making actual positive connections with people when you post on message boards, you might have "fans" too.
Because what they're really called is "friends", people you talk to and get the fuck along with. That's all it fucking takes.
(And yeah, I'm so closedminded about Tekken. That must be why I've played the games AND bothered to sit still through 2 movies. Actually, I've seen all 3, just didn't bring up the anime one. Boy, I sure never did give that series a chance...)

I think I ate enough popcorn, so I just want to say that, while it's true that Sumac tends to be a bit of a jerk, he is also usually right. He failed to properly explain his argument this time, but that doesn't make him wrong. He said there can be more interpretations to to some of the information given in the game, and it is true. That information is usually given by random villagers around MKD Konquest, they could be wrong, misinformed, or directly lying. That whole mode is filled with continuity errors anyway, so it wouldn't be mistaken to doubt things in it.
Now, I'm not saying all of that is true, I do think what was told to us is the canon, but as I proved above, there can be other interpretations.

Sumac, I believe that is what you meant, but correct me if I'm wrong.


That said, feel free to keep personally attacking yourselves, it's always a fun read.

That's a matter where you have to consider creator intent. A lot of the stuff the villagers say about characters' backstories is just stuff they want us to know but couldn't fit in a bio.

To be honest, a lot of villager info breaks the fourth wall. If it HAD been written to sound like "this is something a random person who has never met Raiden would say about Raiden", then the possibility of it occasionally being misinformation in order to give the villagers more characterization would be a valid concern. But most of it's not written to have personality, it's often stuff there's no way a villager could even know, so you know in that instance, yeah, this is story titbits Vogel seeded in there to flesh things out for the really hardcore fans who care about little details.

And you especially have to consider the backwards speech where we don't even know what it says unless a fan with a lot of time on their hands specifically un-reverses those speech clips. And those clips were voice acted by Vogel himself.

That's not even a villager telling you that stuff in-universe. In-universe, that backwards speech is meant to sound like the gibberish of a foreign language. The subtitle, which is the translation of what Shujinko is hearing the person say, obviously doesn't even match the voice clip.

Shujinko's actually being told "Chaosrealmers worship water", while the voice clip that the player is hearing says "orcaM rorrE rof trohs si camrE", you see what I'm saying?

In the real world, the backward speech is John hiding easter eggs in the game for us to find and decipher.

As an earlier poster said, they don't trust the backwards clips because they're jokes. And that's true, SOME of them are jokes.

However, a significant portion of them aren't, they're obscure facts about the canon. Hell, many of them just restate stuff we already knew, like "The Void is a place beyond realms where the Elder Gods dwell." (which you could learn just by reading Scorpion's bio) or "Onaga took possession of Reptile's body in Outworld before stealing the Kamidogu and claiming Quan Chi's amulet for himself." (We already saw all of this happen)

So the likelihood that any of them are lies or misinformation because "this is just what the villager who doesn't know the true story thinks or is aware of" is nearly nil, it doesn't really make sense to do that in an easter egg.
As far as other interpretations of the "One Being's dream" matter go: Sumac hasn't offered any, nor explained any valid reason to believe that room for doubt or debate on the factuality of the lines from the game even exists. All he's done is ignored concrete statements of fact and suggested it might be vague when it isn't, to stir up an argument that we can't really have because there's no substance to debate upon.
If anyone ACTUALLY HAD an alternate interpretation they believed in, and EVIDENCE to support it, it would obviously be reasonable to listen and debate the pros and cons of the two interpretations.

YES!!! SMART HUMAN BEING - YOU ARE AWESOME!! YES!! That's what I wanted to say. And what I did said, but for some reason it was treated as thoughtcrime, warranting attacks, insults and general idiotic responses. To reitirate this again: in out world some people think that our universe is dream of some other being (beings). It could be the same with MK'verse. That is all. And I am not even claiming that this is absolute truth. But I already can feel that response from RazorEdge would be filled with hatred, brain-bending conjectures and vomit inducing amount of arrogance.
I gave my reasoning so many times already, that I could have put it in my signature.
It's not my fault, that you are like a locomotive - running on the railway and unable to see something from different perspective.


You gave me no reason to think otherwise.


Of course, you're not saying this outright, it would've been too much even for you. At least for now. But you are constantly do everything to create such picture. Your words, your attitude, your way of speaking to everyone.


You are delusional and projecting, dear. Not for the first time, though.
I don't have any jealousy towards you. I have a contempt for you, because I think you are an arrogant ass, who decided that he is always in the right and higher than everyone, and that should be put into his place. There is nothing else. I don't want followers or whatever. You are clearly trying to convince someone that it is the case, but it's just reveals what you'd like to have. Or what you don't have enough.


Now you decided to play in kindergarden, huh? Ha-ha.
Also, you think you are successful? You're even more delusional, that I thought. You are disliked by many here, dear. If your definition of being succesfull is to have few kissassers who ready to eat whatever you say, no matter the meaning, then you do not what true success is. You just want attention, which is clearly obvious in all your words.

To put it bluntly: I do what I want, when I want, where I want and I like it. I don't care about being part of community as I never was interested in such things. I don't want to be adored or followed. I have lost interest in such things long time go, if I ever had it in the first place.
I go here to make comments and occasionaly weed out stupidity, if I find it amusing or necessary. Otherwise I am indifferent to people as a whole, which doesn't mean that I dislike them. Well, most of them - you are not in that list, naturally. I maybe coming as rude and abrasive sometimes, but it's just because I tired of stupidity and lately there is nothing, but that in this place, which I hope stops, when new inforamtion will be revealed.

Being familliar with the story and understanding it - are two different things.

And yet a message board is a community whether you choose to be part of it or not. This place is not an empty vaccuum and when you run your mouth, everyone else who's here can read it and choose to respond.
And when your actions are judged by your peers, whether you believe them to be peers or not, and found wanting, you don't ignore them like someone who doesn't care would actually do, you attack them. (Often while simultaneously lying about what your actions even were, even though those actions are still there for everyone to see.)
That really says all that needs to be said.

I see. You have ran out of spitefull things to say, but still trying to make an impression by using general words and lukewarm insults. No wonder, after insult-diarrhea you made above.
Guess, you never tire from attempting to be the biggest fish in a pond, aren't you? But you have already established that with your own words. Heh. You becoming less interesting and more unintelligibly annoying.

See, there it is again. The insistence that I'm the one with the ego, that I desire to be "the big fish". You really are entirely about jealousy and projection. The repetition is so disappointing.

Other people on this board are not my fans, they're not ass-kissers, they're not sycophants, they're not NPCs that exist only to oppose or inconvenience you.

They're our PEERS. I'm not above them, I'm among them. I care what they think. That's why I can get along with other fucking people and you can't. Basic god damned social skills.

Crying "no, you!!"...how original. But somehow it fits you. Ha-ha.


Amount of hypocrisy in your words is a-ma-ZING.

This whole thread has devolved into a "No, you! No, you!" argument. How can you two care so much?

They should just oil up and get fucking, imo.

Lol, now that you mention it the sexual tension is palpable.

I stuck my dick in crazy once. Never again.

No Harley Quinn cosplayers, no furries, and no weeaboos, them's the rules. Sumac falls at LEAST under #3.

Wha...? If like some Japanese games I am weeaboo...? Oh, I guess I didn't expect, that besides, being EGOtist you are also slave of inane stereotypes.

You've got some neat talent, I give you that: every time when you try to insult me, you insult somehow makes more damage for you. It's odd, but welcoming thing.

Turning a topic into a disaster, a lot of people are interested in the lore don't get this thread closed down for others who want to learn. If you guys have problems with each other bring up with a Mod or Mick. Or, at least pm each other so you can talk it out, but don't ruin a thread for everyone just saying.