The interpretation needed is the official one. And that is what Razor has presented.

It seems like Sumac is being deliberately contrarian in order to encourage debate where there is no debate applicable and the matter was made concrete with no vagueness or room for interpretation.

Like...if a person said "2+2 doesn't have to equal 4, it could add up to other numbers instead. I personally believe it's 4, but other people could have valid answers too"...that's stupid.

Sumac, you are telling me to stop arguing for the sake of arguing... that's what you're doing now. XD

So stop it!

It's funny that you've mentioned it, because it's entirely possible for 2 + 2 to not equal 4. And it's far from stupid.
And that is exactly my position here.

I personally would have stopped here, but if you want to continue this pointless exchange, I'll oblige.


If I was arguing, I would have decided when to stop it and nobody else.
But since I am not arguing...I won't stop. Because I am not doing anything.

Well this escalated quickly.

I don't know why I keep falling for it.

How do you even argue with someone who apparently doesn't believe in arithmetic?

Do not mistake plot for interpretation. The latter is independent of the source material in a sense that it comes intrinsically from the observer's previous knowledge and/or approach.

For example, let's see how feminist interpretation or marxist interpretation works on MK. Also, HOW the game interprets stuff is another deal compared to how you interpret the game.

I believe in aritmetic and that is why I said what I've said.
Ypu do know that there are others numeral systems, right?

I too hope future narratives avoid The One Being. DA-A really felt too big. In my opinion, thats one of the larger ways that those games lost the classic MK vibe. It all felt too nuch like traditional fantasy.

I'd rather the plots stay more focused on character relationships and human motivations. "It was foretold the world would end. Go save it!" type stories are kinda cheap to me.

Basically, a little more George R. R. Martin and a little less Tolkien.

Thre is no need nor obligation to hold onto the "classic" vibe forever.

Thank you RazorsEdge701 for always clarifying everything. The lore can sometimes be confusing.

Reading about the 'one being' here, i must say, i kinda like him.

Having known about him, without really 'knowing' about him, its really interesting the roles he played in shao and onaga's reigns and conquests to merge the realms back together.

And I'm all for anything that can rival an elder god.

I would enjoy it if it returns throughout the story. Wont be upset if it doesnt.

And I don't. Change everything, as far as I'm concerned. But having a cosmic threat that intends to dissolve reality is one thing that's just too much for me. I just don't care for a MK that is that close to traditional epic fantasy.

Like I said, for me interpersonal relationships and intrigue is what's most interesting. Once you go full cosmic, where do you go from there? For NRS, that answer was a total reboot, and it was probably necessary to get MK back to something resembling MK. DA-A just kind of spiraled into overblown, contrived nonsense, in my opinion, and it seemed like they kind of painted themselves into a corner.

I don't want to go down that road again, and I think NRS have learned that lesson. What we have seen of MKX, what with the struggle for power in Outworld, etc. seems like the team is on a great path. Hopefully one that is devoid of random, contrived super powered MacGuffins like Amulets and Kamidogu. Ugh.

That's basically the plot of MK1 thru 3 though. The reason the tournament was created was monks had visions that Kahn was coming to conquer the Earth and prayed to the gods to save them.

And the movie goes on and on about Liu Kang being "the chosen one" as if he was born to beat Kahn.
Not to mention that the entirety of MK9 is about Raiden trying to prevent a prophecy of the end of the universe from coming true.

I did consider that, but those stories seemed to me more about preventing invasion rather that reality actually ceasing. Invasion is fine. Earthrealm inhabited by Outworld monsters was plenty of fun.

However, those aspects of the plot were less interesting to me than the individual characters' stories. Stuff like Sub-Zero and Scorp, Lin Kuei/Tekunin intrigue, Goro's arc with Kitana, etc. were all interesting angles.

Again, this is all just my opinion. I'm very interested to see how this struggle for Outworld plays out in MKX.

DA and Deception had individual character subplots too though. Like Nitara/Reptile/Cyrax in DA was about as disconnected from the main plot as Sub-Zero/Smoke/Sektor/Cyrax was in MK3.

That's my point. They've ALWAYS been about saving the world with character-driven side stories happening as well. I can't agree at all that the 3D games "feel different" than the 2D ones do in terms of writing. Also, in terms of atmosphere and art direction, DA is very much a return to the style of MK1 and Deception is very MK2esque as well...whereas 3, 4, and 9's stages all depart heavily from the "kung fu movies and asian mythology" theme the series was founded on.
I could MAYBE see where things got "too big" or "too cosmic", but I don't know that I agree with that either when Shao Kahn's origin and motivations are taken into account.
Things only seemed less big before because we didn't KNOW all the backstory behind the guys we were meeting in the first games. They didn't up the scale, they just pulled back the curtain. If you think about it, the only difference between what Kahn's always trying to do and what Onaga tried to do is Kahn's godly cosmic powers come from eating the populations of entire planets like a really short Galactus whereas Onaga got his from maguffins that can be destroyed and without them he's no tougher than, say, Goro...because not everybody can be a god or soul stealer.
Besides, the One Being was NOT created to be a character. His story only exists to give the MK bible a Book of Genesis. All they did was personify the Big Bang. It's not meant to show up on the fuckin' roster and be a boss, it's meant to flesh out the mythology, to add to the worldbuilding. He's as much of a character in the MK universe as Joe Chill's revolver is in Batman. You're meant to read about him and go "Oh, so that's what the Elder Gods' deal is. I always wondered whether or not they created the universe and what their jobs are compared to Raiden...that explains it."
It's also probably Vogel's idea of a "clever" way to excuse retcons. Now he can just go "dreams don't make sense" whenever something about the MK universe is inconsistent. In that respect, it is kinda shitty...but it's too late now.

So the whole MK universe is a dream? Basically nothing in that world actually exists? But wait, what would count as genuine existence to begin with? Does *anything* exist? What if we're some crazy guy's dream and everything could just disappear if they wake up? *Hides under desk in fetal position* Now I'm sad. Thanks.

Hey hungry. what you doing on the computer? did you'll kill that guy again?
RIP Dashie

on topic:
fighting the one being as a boss just makes me think of master hand for some reason.

damn razor, you're a beast with the MK lore. Its a shame it all was basically thrown away with MK9

The whole OIA thing was pretty cool. I didn't care so much for Nitara. The actual DA wasn't horrible either. Especially since the Liu Kang suckerpunch was the most logical thing to happen in all of MK history. Dude has godlike fighting skills? Stop trying to fight him.

I get that the One Being was nothing more than another plot device (since he/it never actually does anything) but he/it is just tied into the whole Onaga, Kamidogu, Blaze, Armageddon clusterfuck in my brain. I really hated all that shit.

It didn't help that I never enjoyed the gameplay in those games either. I get that Midway was trying to keep in step with everyone else at the time, but in hindsight I'm sure they would prefer to have spent that time improving the 2D-oriented fighting like they are now. But yeah, hindsight.

However, I do feel like a noteworthy shift when Tobias left was that the dark, hellish, pseudo-Satanic aspects of the game left as well. Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, and even Quan Chi to an extent had a bit of that vibe back then. A sort of sacreligous thing. But to me, from DA onwards, stuff started feeling more like Masters of the Universe. I love Masters of the Universe, but I liked Asian Hell more. Basically, it's Cosmic vs Demonic. Skeletor Shao Kahn vs Occult Emporor of Hell and Master of Pain Shao Kahn. lolz

Like you said, the curtain was pulled back and what was back there was basically a dumpy little guy.

I don't expect MK to return to anything like the Asian demonic Hell stuff, but I'm glad things are skewing a bit darker with MKX.

Yeah i love reading his plot breakdowns.
I really wish Warner would release a MK Mythology book that goes in detail all the plot of MK1-7, plus with the added backstory that they added in the later titles (like Smoke's enerna history).

I personally liked the DA-Deception plot arc more than MK1-3. Stage design wasn't the greatest in the 2000s though.

One thing I've liked about most of the MKs has been how the story progresses from one game to the next, and the teases they leave behind. Although I'm probably one of the few that prefers the story telling of MKDeadlyAlliance over any of the rest of the titles. Awesome intro that sets up the plot, arcade ending that gives many truths about the future, but falsehoods as well so you weren't quite sure which ones were real. Plus the Konquest mode gave a lot of great story info of EACH fighter. Something none of the other games have done a good job with.

Well I honestly don't feel there was any kind of tonal shift in the switch from Tobias to Vogel...I'm not sure where it's coming from for you unless it's a subconscious effect of the switch from bluescreened actors to those goofy bulbous 3D models the PS2 era games used...

But honestly, for me, the game most similar to a cartoon was MK3, and Mythologies, 4, DA, and Deception all gradually brought things back more towards being like MK2.

Definitely agree with all of that.
Also, I like Onaga as a villain almost as much as Kahn, partly because of the way he was seeded into the lore ahead of time so well in DA, but mostly because of how epic the MKD opening cinema was. I still think that opening is the greatest cutscene in the history of the franchise. Certainly nothing in MK9 story mode comes close.

You mistaking, it wasn't thrown away. No need for sloppy statements.
And don't inflate Edgy's already big EGO or we soon run out of place on the forum.


You mistaking and overreacting about the situation.
The whole One Being deal was just a background, which provided additional information about MK universe cosmology. The rest of the conflict in MKD was traditional MK thing: "good guys try to stop evil guy from doing evil shit + some people minding their own business". There was nothing larger than life about it, just typical MK stuff and story could have been continued just as usual from there. There was nothing contrived or overblown, you just needed to pay more attention. Though, some people really have problems with this, which is baffling me.


Superhero tights aside, MK3 was more realistiс than MK2 when it comes to picture. MK2 had vibrant palette and looked more like a drawn picture. MKDA-MKA were quite cartoonish. Nothing similar in the picture for the classic parts. However, they were similar in terms of tone and atmosphere to their classic counterparts (MKDA = MK1, MKD = MK2, MKA = MKT).


MKD opening was good...but only, when it comes to animation quality. Storywise it was stupid as hell, so nothing greatest there. MKDA opening, while not looking as good, was better in terms of story.
And of course you need to use any opportunity to shit on MK9 as a pathetic fanatic blinded with his own headcanon as you are. Nothing new, really. But funny.

It's not boosting Razor's ego when all he did was to present the official lore. That just means he's good at reading.

Jealousy can be such an ugly thing.
On a more serious note, gotta disagree that the storytelling in the DA opening is good. It's an effective summary, but the narration is terribly voice acted and there's no real action in it save the far-too-quick Liu/Shang fight. What makes the MKD opening the best is that it strikes all the right dramatic chords and has a beautifully choreographed fight scene. The only other scene in the series that's in the same league is the Shaolin Monks opening, but it has its own flaws.