To let you guys know as someone that's been on these forums since the MKDA days...yes. There has always been threads that talked/complained about the immature character designs for the female characters. You better believe people were wondering aloud why the character designers just had to depict Sonya with skin-tight-low-cut leather pants that unnecessarily exposed her thong.

This is not a new thing.

The point I was trying to make is: Mortal Kombat is NRS's creation it's up to them to decide what their characters look like and how how the characters dress. Maybe that is how a princess assassin looks in Outworld, no one has ever had that thought? Outworld is not Earth, we can't base their clothing on our standards because they're in an entirely different dimension. I have agreed on everything about Sonya, she doesn't need heels and she should be covered more.

As an artist myself, I know that everyone can create whatever they want to look like whatever they want it to look. But everyone should be entitled to criticism. And so far, my criticism has been somewhat negative to the choices the designers decide to make some of their characters.

However, let me explain myself about Kitana's outfit, seeing how she's the topic of this thread so far.

I have never once been a fan of Kitana's outfits. The only time I can actually say I sort of liked her outfit was her primary in Deadly Alliance and Mortal Kombat vs DC. There, they showed elegance. But then, they decide to just trash it up with the next game. In Deception, she has a blue alternate outfit to match Mileena's in Sindel's and Ermac's endings. Despite I can understand why they did this (just to not design a completely new outfit for her in endings), still. You go from a very decent look, to something 100% different, back to decent, and then back to 100% different. Like her fans, they change every single time.

And this is my point. They give her a look that speaks out as elegant and deadly at the same time. Had they continued to work off of her Deadly Alliance appearance, maybe, just maybe, I'd actually appreciate this character's outfits more than what they have been. But to get away from that kind of look just to make her more revealing is something that really annoys me. Out of all the fictional fantasy-like princesses that I've seen in the media, I really haven't seen any kind of princess that just wears outrageous outfits that doesn't fit the character. Kitana is that character. She's a fighting princess that never wears something that actually matches her character right.

So...I took some screenshots from MK Deception and found as many female civilian NPCs as I could to get a general idea of what Edenian/Outworld clothing garb is. This is what I found -

Edenia Female -


Outworld Female 1 -


Outworld Female 2 -


Outworld Female 3 -


Outworld Female 4 -


Outworld Female 5 -


Now going on these character models from MKD's Konquest it seems pretty clear that the way that Sindel, Kitana, Jade, Mileena, Tanya, etc. is not the standard garb of either Edenia or Outworld. The standard garb just seems as a generic fusion of a variety of Asian styles (Chinese, Mongolian, Korean, Japanese, etc.) with obvious fantasy elements. The closest any female character from Outworld or Edenia comes is of course Li Mei.



Now are the outfits worn by Kitana and company different due to status? Is it typical fighting/exercise garb of Edenia/Outworld? Does it even matter? I'll let you all decide.

The excuse that it is not Earth is probably the weakest excuse one could give.


Also, it's quite futile to bark up the tree now. Boon and co. seems to be on the maturity level of the Angry Video Game Nerd. Which isn't surprising.


If you want honest sex appeal and some thinking in your game, play Druuna. If you want to laugh and think sexy thoughts, play Leasure Suit Larry.

Apologies, I meant Sonya in recent MK titles. I wasn't clear on that at all and that was my bad. She didn't have giant breasts until MK:DA, and her outfits seemed to have decreased in cloth since then.

No, Sonya as played by Elizabeth Malecki or Keri Hoskins and up through MK4 seemed totally normal to me in that regard and not grossly over-sexualized in the least. Same goes for Bridgette Wilson.

I think that I cut off the first part, but Kitana and Mileena had very similar outfits in MK Gold, which appears to be based off of their UMK3 look (same goes with Jade). I don't think that Mileena really broke out in that regard until Deception, but if you disagree, it's cool.





First and foremost, let's not operate under the assumption that any of this data is gospel or that it's saying exactly what you or I think or want it to say. Let's get that out of the way.

You can look all over the internet and find different numbers and different statistics for virtually anything, and on this topic, I've looked. I've done my homework, as you seem to have as well.

I can see why you'd say "short-sighted" in the context of Mortal Kombat because it's a violent fighting game and violent fighting games are predomintatly played by men.

However, I'd argue that this doesn't have to be the case, and that by jumping to this conclusion about fighting games and men and molding the content of their games to this data (specifically with regard to women), it's possible that they've created, or at least hastened / enhanced a self-fulfilling prophecy.

MK wasn't always like this. Look at Elizabeth Melacki's character model in MK1 versus what Sonya's alt looks like in MK9 or in MKvsDC. Sonya in MK3 and MK4 is still far more conservative by comparison, or at least more believable, but you can see it changing over time until we have what we have now. Why was this change made?

Regardless, as far as being short-sighted is concerned, I think it's short-sighted to think that sex sells a game that sold perfectly fine without it in the past, because it very well could act to shut out a female market that's been growing by leaps and bounds in the last decade and not just Farmville players / old lady Wii bowlers.

Business Insider article on whether sex sells

MK was a violent fighting game series. Does sex actually apply to a violent fighting game? Should it be applied regardless? If the target audience is adolescent males or hell, males in general, is that the image that they should be given of what women should look like, body type, act like, etc?

Does this affect the way young men and older men perceive women and female attractiveness, especially when combined with the endless avalanche of other advertising that tells them what their role is, what they should look like, what's manly, what women should like, their role in society etc etc?

I'll leave all of this stuff; this hornets nest for another day rather than kicking it now, but suffice to say, video games have had an issue with gender and it seems to be worsening as the domgraphics are shifting, as if the marketing is becoming more geared toward men as more women join the market.

As for where I got my stats, my apologies, the data that I've been quoting for years now, which I believe was from the ESRB, is a bit outdated. It was probably a study that I read in GameInformer, but again, I can't remember for sure.

But what looks familiar to me are the ESRB stats that list the average gamer age in 2010 as 34, but now it seems to be more around 30-31.

Most stats that I've seen from both the ESRB, the ESA and articles referencing their studies and other studies say that women over 18 represent 30+% of the gaming population and that they are the most rapidly increasing group of gamers in terms of numbers.

In contrast, male gamers 17 and younger stands at 19% of the gaming population. The key here, and where I'd say that your stats are at least in dispute, is that according to Nintendo, 50% of Wii players were female. According to MS, 38% of Xbox players were women.

But regardless, I could sit here and throw out stats all day and you could throw out stats, but the fact of the matter is that women DO play video games, the percentage of CONSOLE gamers that are women is increasing, and whether it's 50%, 48%, 47%, 45%, 40% (I've literally seen all five of those numbers recently), women play video games and a lot more likely do it on consoles than the 15% to 25% your source is indicating.

I feel like the industry for a long time had this idea that women aren't there, and that filtered down to some gamers (not all!) that have this "make me a sandwich" view of women gamers.

The reality seems to be that a lot of it was the industry simply ignoring women, thinking that, "oh, women aren't buying Barbie Horse Tea Party 3, they must not like video games." Or assuming that most only play Candy Crush on their mobile device.

This may be anectdotal, but my lady plays Candy Crush, Kirby's Epic Yarn and Mario Kart, sure, but she also plays DOA, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur etc. I also dislike first person shooters and I'm definitely not alone in that regard, statistics be damned.

Bottom line: It's voluntary ignorance to put anyone in a box and say"you are this, therefore you like that." When the statistics aren't nearly as cut and dry as it might seem, no matter what the marketing ad wizards might read from the tea leaves. 38% or even 25% of 60,000,000 Xbox 360's sold is still a shit ton, and they weren't purchased to play Barbie Horse Tea Party 3. They're not waiting for a 360 version of Candy Crush.

Look, I'm not saying that women should be completely covered from head to toe just as I wouldn't say that about the men. I'm not slut-shaming or advocating high-modesty as some moral imperative. Not at all.

All I'm saying is that for both genders, I just want their apperance to be a strong extension of their character, just as their story, the way they talk, their attitude, their movement, whatever. Make them more believable. Look at Scorp and Subby in the new trailer. If we see Kitana this week and she's all boobs and fetish gear, I'll be a little disappointed.

Someone pointed out the fact that the women in MK9 are all the same height, have similar breast size, body type etc. I'd love to see in the next generation, the MK team look at this and do something more unique with the female characters than throw them in lingerie or bikinis in what's supposed to be a fight to death for the fate of the world. Maybe send the message to any female gamers out there, young and older and the guys as well that MK women aren't just hood ornaments.

That's my wish, unrealistic though it may be. Anyways, here are a few places on the interwebs with stats, though there are many MANY more out there.

Basic ESA "facts"

Older ERB stats

Yes criticism is good, but ultimately it's still up to the artist.

As far as Kitana goes, my point can still be made, she is their creation, it's up to them to decide what fits her character. NRS obviously felt her 2011 appearance was fitting, I agree with them. I know some don't agree, but in the end it's up to the artist, we should be more respectful of them. I think Kitana's 2011 costumes are great, there are a few things I would change, but overall I have been waiting for Kitana to get something new for a long time, she pretty much had the same costumes since MK3. We know she was originally going to be in MKD with a costume similar to Mileena's so Kitana's 2011 look was just a step in that direction, we just didn't get the MKD transition, so everyone shit their pants when Kitana finally got something new. Jade, Mileena and Tanya all got their transition costumes in MKD, did everyone complain that those costumes were not fitting of their characters? Assume Kitana was in MKD and had a blue version of Mileena's costume, would everyone still have been as shocked at Kitana's 2011 look? I like the purple MKDA costume, I just hated that it was purple. The MKSM costume was okay and her MKDC was probably the worst she's ever had. This is just an assumption, but maybe Kitana has more in her closet than the same blue leotard.

I absolutely agree with you there.
her mk9 primary and mk2 outfits were the best costumes she's had so far.

I think designs like the MKvsDC one are already better by default, because she at least looks like an assassin. The MK9 outfit still screams servant girl to me.

Overall I find the character designs we've seen in her ending, more interesting than any of the female designs we've seen in MK9.

See, I would say Hoskins definitely had "giant breasts". Her cleavage may not have been visible, but those are double-D's stretching out that spandex top with the bare midriff for sure. And Bridgette DID have her cleavage hanging out in the movie. It was obviously the only reason she was cast since she clearly didn't know martial arts and they never bothered subbing in a stuntwoman during her scene against Kano. They just wanted that shot of her hanging upside down for an extended period of time when she does the Leg Grab.

And her MKDA and Shaolin Monks outfits covered her up more than anything she's ever worn, those were actually really good costumes (I particularly miss her DA alt where she's in full uniform like she's going to a ceremonial function or something) so outside of complaints of her wearing her thong like WWE's Lita a couple times, I would say she wasn't "over"sexualized until the MK9 titty-vest.

Oh, Hoskin's breasts were definitely huge.

Her cup size is probably the only sexual attribute Sonya has, but like you said, they've always been covered. I don't think Sonya should ever be portray as a sexual person. Hoskins' Sonya should always be the template. She was perfect.

This is interesting. She wouldn't have got "something like" Mileena's MKD primary that outfit was out and out meant for Kitana. Looking at Mileena's MKD concept art puts her in something similar to her MKD alt and her 2011 primary. So yeah MK2011 was the direction they were taking her in anyway. Kitana's MK2011 alt is BASICALLY an ugly version of what she would've worn in MKD.

But that wasn't my question...

Because I wasn't answering it.

100% this!!
The DC outfit only worked in the sense that it had a superhero vibe to it, which I guess worked with the game.
But i'd love it if they just had Kitana (and the others) move away from the leotard . Surely even Edenian fashion changes over 20-odd years?! Have it as an alternate/DLC/secret, just change up the design somewhat.

Thank you NRS.

A world of yes.

D'Vorah, Cassie Cage and Ferra are exactly what I'm looking for.

The variation is already a lot better. We got a bug woman, a midget girl, and Cage's daughter, who actually has normal proportions and not a porn star physique.

Once again, InB4OMGMANFACELOLOLOLOL!!!!

Seeing the first two female characters released, I would like to assume that I doubt we'll see any outrageous outfits like we did in the last game. Just doesn't seem like the right tone.

Three females actually... Don't forget Ferra. lol

Haha ahh yes I forgot about her. And she's wearing a two piece. Well, it's not a bad thing that she's wearing that.

If Cassie Cage is any indication then I think that NRS has finally moved beyond the terrible female designs from the last game. I'm really pleased.

"Yay small boobs and full coverage!"

Wtf is this world coming to?

I think her face looks fine. Only gripe is I think she should look a tad bit younger. I'm guessing she should be in her early 20s? She's looking 30-early 40s there.