I like this design for Kitana. I'd change a few small details, but overall I'd love it if she looked like this in the next game.

I like this design also, just make it look like she came from Outworld or Edenia instead of some campy 80s Scifi movie.

Actually, yes there are. But you don't see it that much as how female characters have it. Though I will agree with Progressive. I can see why he found your post to be ignorant, and so do I. If a guy wants to see less skin and more clothing, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. And the way you wrote you post, you seem to give off that kind of judgment. If that's not what you were getting it, well, I'll let you appreciate unrealistic moving boobs.

There is nothing wrong with being "nit-picky" about something that makes no sense to them. I find this topic to be great to see how many would like to see more outfits that don't reveal a lot. Less is more and according to a lot of people here, they want to see that.

Yes, it's a game, yes, it's fantasy. But there is no reason to have no common sense to make a military-like character have an outfit that perfect represents that and not wearing an adult Halloween costume.

I want all the men to be in thongs. All of them. For every female character dressed like a slut, I want 3 male characters in thongs. Even if one of those characters are Bo'Rai Cho.

Here's a nice design I'd like to see NRS rip off, should they design a new female. DC's Katana.

This design is fine as it's what I've been saying, cover the top more and show legs off. But since we're gonna have multiple versions of characters I'd like a hooded Kitana or Skarlet, making her like Red Riding Hood.

*checks*

Nope. Definitely don't like titties.

What I said was meant to be tongue in cheek. No one has a sense of humor?

I agree with you that this is a good topic. I also agree with you about Sonya showing less skin. I said somewhere earlier in this thread that Sonya's primary would have been better if she had on a tank top or Tshirt under the vest and no high heels.

But as for the other females since they're pretty much all Edenian/Outworldian (what would you call that?) get creative, lots of skin and high heels, that's obviously how they dress. Look at Shao Kahn, he's from Outworld, All the females grew up in Outworld, it makes sense they dress like that.

I didn't answer your Shao Kahn argument because it's typical, inspid and because I already answered it earlier in the thread. But, since going back a couple of pages proves too much effort, let me reiterate. The depiction of Shao Kahn--and male nudeness in general--is not the same thing as female nudeness, because of societies preconceived (and admittedly wrong) notions about gender roles.
Shao Kahn's heaving muscularity depicts him as STRONG, POWERFUL and as a LEADER. Now let's take Kitana for instance who is supposed to fit the "warrior princess" motif. What does her depiction in skimpy clothing induce from the male audience? Giggles? Gawking? Crude, immature jokes? They see her as submissive, fragile, a damsel, etc. Even if this isn't the way her character is written these things occur to the player based on her appearance.
Sonya Blade is pretty well written in the last Mortal Kombat save the part where for some reason she can't seem to handle Kano as well as the fact that she is kidnapped by Shao Kahn, but that gets a pass as pre-established canon. But, how on earth can anyone take her seriously as a military officer with that outfit? It makes no sense. An argument could be made for Mileena to be dressed provocatively, based on her character...but, she is about the only for whom that case could be made.
You mistake my objectivity for prudeness. I am no prude! Infact, I'm quite fond of nudity and consider myself a bit of an exhibitionist, but it's all about context. I've no desire to rid the world of pornography, on the contrary, pornography is perfectly aware of what it is and so is everyone who indulges in it; all I'm asking is that Mortal Kombat displays a bit of that same self-awareness.

So just played some Deception so here is some overanalyzation.

Outworld fashion can be anything as it's a fantasy place. With that said though I don't necessarily buy the idea of females dressing in the style of characters like Kitana or whatever. I just recently played through MKD's Konquest and can say none of the female civilians in Outworld dressed in that fashion. It was the same cliche Asian-esque fantasy type garb.

Li Mei for example in both her MKDA primary and MKD alternate was clothed for the most part. True her MKDA alternate and MKD primary amounts to basically a bikini but she's not primarily depicted in that garb; Li Mei's MKD primary for example didn't show up in any story bits (excluding her Konquest model) until she became Onaga's queen in her ending.

I think the skimpy garb worn by the characters could just be excercise/fighting garb in the same way our athletes and fighters dress...of course with more fantastical elements. It could also be shown as being a character of power (royalty, close servants, etc.). Now if NRS just comes out and says that then I think most would have to just say "Hm, ok." That's kind of the problem I think as they haven't just tried to justify a lot of these character designs and the lack of maturity shown in the designs is just so blatant.

I think I could accept that Sindel for example would wear what she's wearing if there is an actual reason behind it aside from "lol ass." Anyway just my two cents regarding females from other realms.

I think your over analyzing and over thinking this. Maybe that's how you saw Kitana, but you can't speak for everyone on that. Also, Kitana was kind of a damsel in distress this time around in story mode anyway.

I assume most people who bought this game put very little thought, probably no thought at all into misogyny in the context of the female characters' costumes.

A few things about gamers:

Half of all gamers are female.
The average gamer age is 35.

Given those two facts, do you honestly think that no one, men or women, give any thought to misogyny in video games, including Mortal Kombat? That it's just a few hardcore fans in this little corner of the internet? If so, then you'd be wrong.

Sure, Progressive isn't speaking for everyone, but a LOT more people share his opinion than you seem to think.

Personally, I think that all clothing in MK needs to make a giant leap out of the 90's. MK9 was a start, but there's still a long way to go.

As for the ladies in the game, I'm kinda done with the whole "it's okay, they're from Edenia" line, like that's a perfectly plausible reason for why they're dressed that way.

From where I'm sitting, they're purposely meant to be revealing. Their fictional culture might provide cover for some hardcore fans, but for NRS, it's likely a flimsy means to an end, if they even bother to give it that much thought to begin with.

It'd be like saying that all women that fight with a pole twirl around it like a stripper in Edenia. It sounds kinda ridiculous as a line of reasoning when the real reason why they're portrayed that way is so blatantly obvious.

Now some might say who cares, because titties! To that, I say it's a video game. In the fighting parts, I want to see fighting with bad ass men and women, and it's kinda hard to see "bad ass" when I see some of these outfits. They undermine the lady characters a little bit.

When I see story, I want to see believable characters, not "it makes sense that Mileena dresses that way, she's crazy." Wait, what? Or "that's her personality." Since when? MKD? The fourth time she appeared in this series? That's not strange at all?

Also, slightly difficult, as others have said, to take Sonya seriously as special forces when she has the purposely gigantic breasts and the fetishized versions of military outfits.

I know it's ninjas fighting robots, but I'd like to see authenticity wherever possible and I'd also prefer not to be marketed to like I'm a sex starved 15 year old basement dweller that's never touched a girl and has heard of the internet. It actually borders on insulting it's so outdated.

Kids that grew up on MK are adults now. Time for MK to grow up too. If you skipped everything else, here's my drift: make a fun, immersive gaming experience. You can have sexy and sensual and alluring for both genders without it coming off like it came from the imagination of a horny school kid.

Well, there's Shao Kahn.

He's worth like, four dudes.

I love this paragraph. Not that your whole post wasn't great, but this one just stood out.

For someone who literally grew up with Mortal Kombat since the age of one (thank you older brother of mine) I have to say, this should happen. Not every single female should come from a horny school kid. And as you stated, "They're from Edenia" that whole sentence doesn't cut it for me anymore.

Looking at their art book (and sadly I lost it, but since it's so little, can you blame me?) looking at the female characters that had like eight of the same character drawn with different outfits, they really didn't have that much to work with. They had Mileena and Kitana wearing the same outfit and Jade had so many varieties, but none of them stood out for me as a royal protector of the "daughter" of Shao Kahn. (I am also not going on the whole, "Maybe Kahn likes his women dressed that way, including his adoptive daughter.") None of these three actually had concepts that looked decent enough, although the one they picked for Kitana shows more skin than the concepts that they had for her.

I'm not sure if posting pictures from that book is still not allowed on here so I'm not going to.

However, the other female characters did not show that many other concepts as much as Kitana, Mileena and Jade. Honestly, they really need to learn how a sketch book is supposed to look like. Take a look at Blizzard's art books.

There's no harm in asking a little maturity in the designing of these costumes, and it's not just going out towards the female characters. The male characters could also have some touching up to do. (Even though Sub-Zero is totally off the case. Such a badass)

Yeah.

Well said!

A woman being scantily-clad, given the appropriate context, can be an empowering image. To some, people like Lady Gaga fit this mold. To others, it is a positive image because it portrays a woman as independent, and not being bound by what a patriarchal society deems is appropriate for women. By extension, many of those people tend to find the cultural expectation that a woman wear a hijab (or other fashions that serve a similar purpose) sexist, and rooted in outdated ideas about modesty from a time when women were viewed as animals.

However, in a different context, a woman in revealing clothing is not a positive image. It conveys the modern idea held by some (horribly sexist) men, that women are little more than blow-up dolls.

As society began to shift, sexist fashion split into two main varieties. The first variety is the expectation that women dress extremely modestly (generally a religious view, or a view held by those who blame the victims in rape cases). The second variety is the expectation that women dress like porn stars (generally a view held by adolescent boys, and men with small penises).

What it really comes down to is objectification. The creators, developers, and target demographic for the Mortal Kombat series are overwhelmingly male. Common sense indicates that the fashion choices of Kitana are not based in her Edenian heritage; nor are they based in defying the religious ideal that women cover every inch of their skin. Kitana, Sonya, Mileena, and so on, dress provocatively, and look the way they do, to turn-on the guys who play Mortal Kombat.

These women aren't dressed in provocative clothing to make a point about outdated cultural ideals of modesty. They are dressed that way because it is less threatening for men with little penises to see women as sex objects instead of people.

I can understand some people claiming that Mileena should dress slightly more revealing than most because, of late, her characterization has been intentionally sexual (I assume it's because she's overcompensating for her Tarkatan features). I can understand some claiming it's acceptable for Sheeva to wear little more than a ribbon, because she's not generally portrayed as a sexualized character (although, I think her finishing pose in the most recent game would beg to differ). But people claiming that it's okay for Sonya to wear a barely-there vest and high-heeled military boots, are either woefully ignorant of cultural sexism, intentionally propagating said sexism, or can't see past their own adolescent, undeveloped sexuality.

I just want to say that though I agree with almost everything Baraka407 said, I do have two small points...



Technically, Mileena has been showing off the most skin on the roster since MK Gold, the first time she ever wasn't a palette swap.

And "Her face embarrasses her" has been there since she was created, that's the only reason her and Kitana ever wore ninja masks. They're not ninjas, their identities aren't a secret, it was to hide her teeth and the twins had to match. Extending that into "to draw eyes from her face, she shows off her body" isn't a leap out of character.



Does Kerri Hoskins have implants? I don't think Bridgette Wilson does...

I know there's no real impetus for them to deliberately model characters after actors who used to play them, but personally I would appreciate it if they started choosing to be consistent to past depictions, not changing facial features, eye colors, skin colors, and bodytype every game, I dunno...

I WOULD like her to cover them the fuck up and dress more like a soldier, of course. Or at the VERY least to wear Army-standard casual/athletic wear like an olive green t-shirt and camo pants or whatever when attending a tournament.

Source please.

Oh wait...it's probably this right here.

I know it looks super official and well researched but it doesn't clarify data points for it's gender and age demographic. Specifically, it lumps together medium demographics (console, mobile, and PC) when arriving at the gender demographics. As a result, the study doesn't take into account that CONSOLE demographics still show predominantly male (%78-%85) and predominantly 18 - 25 years. SOURCE: LINK

The INCREASE of the popularity in MOBILE gaming and SOCIAL network gaming skews this data and gives a false representation that women make up "half of gaming". So, that statistic is only true when we look at ALL mediums of gaming. SOURCE: LINK

I've already spent more time than I wanted to pointing this out but...women are oversexualized because target audiences of young males play CONSOLE video games. Is that a good thing? No, quite the opposite actually. But to be shocked that Kitana wears heels, or that Sonya has cleavage seems shortsighted.

TL;DR - Mortal Kombat has boobs and high heels because the target audience demographic (men) like big boobed women in stilettos.

And who else do we know, that is actually from Edenia? Rain. I love his design in MK9. His design aesthetics, is what I would positively describe as Edenian and Royalty. But all I see when I look at Kitana, Mileena or Jade, is random servant/slave girl number 6.

Now I'm not saying dress them like Rain, though they could do well to give the women some of his costume aesthetics. The veil alone makes him look like a warrior prince. But right now, when you look at Rain, and then look at Kitana, they don't look like people who came from the same realm, and shared the same culture.

Yea I like that, Lose the peacock tail, the upper portion of the mask and the..well pointy nipples and were good to go.

I still think you guys are taking this whole thing way too seriously. I grew up with MK I was 5 when I first played MK2 and have stuck with the series ever since. Did we have these same kind of arguments for the females in MKD? I wasn't on the boards back then.

I still see no problem with the way the ladies are dressed in 2011. It fits their characters (other than Sonya) and it fits what NRS has been doing for years. Jade's bustier could show less cleavage though just because her nipples should be showing that's how open her bustier is, but that's just lack of attention to detail. Kitana finally looks like a princess (an Outworld princess) Jade and Mileena got nice updates and out of the three Kitana is showing the least skin.

I think it's pretty valid to say they dress like that because it's their culture, that's how NRS wants them to look and MK is NRS's creation so we should be more receptive, appreciative and accepting of their art.

I would rather this discussion be about costume ideas for the MKX ladies instead of bashing 2011 in every post, I get it, everyone here is a feminist. I know this might be shocking to some but there are people who might just enjoy the game and the art of the game without getting butt hurt or offended by too much leg showing because it's "misogynistic."

Hardly any that I can recall. The impetus of the argument was Kitana and Sonya in MK9 specifically since they were more exposed than they ever were.

We also know Sheeva, Goro, Kintaro, Shao Kahn, Reiko, and Tanya. All of whom aren't very...modest in dress. Rain dresses like he does because the NRS is trying to make him look like one of the "ninjas" same for Reiko in MK4 because of being a pallet swap for Noob.

Nice outfit.
I did like her better with loose hair though.

I like it too, it could use some tweaking, but I would like something similar to this.

I always wanted to see what Kitana would have looked like in MKD. I know Mileena's costume was meant for Kitana originally, but you can tell NRS tweaked it to make it more Mileena. I wonder what it would have looked like for Kitana.

Considering what she looks like in MK9 they might not have tweaked it at all.

People can take this subject however they want, there's nothing wrong in discussing it. People were not satisfied back when 2011 came out in several of the character's outfits, so I'm bringing this topic back up to discuss BEFORE we see any of the female characters. And I have no idea how this forum was during Deception.



You don't see a problem, others do. You may not agree with what they have to say, others may not agree with you.




I'm not going to appreciate a character if they can't be designed on what they are. If Sonya is supposed to represent a woman in the military, she should look like she comes from it. If Kitana is supposed to be a princess and an assassin, she should look like it. Nothing in her design in 2011 told me she was either of those. In fact, she looked more like a slave than an actual princess. And no, the little tiara on her head doesn't cut it.



Asking the artists of Netherrealm Studios to give a little bit more clothing to the female characters is not being a feminist. That's asking them to treat women as equal as the men, and frankly, that makes no sense when this game has both genders getting the crap beaten out of them. No one here is asking them to be covered up completely. From what I've been seeing, and I'm not sure if you've been seeing this, a lot of people here are asking the creators to at least give them a costume that makes sense to what their character is.

Yeah, there are people, such as yourself, that would love to see characters in outfits that hardly covers anything, but there are some that don't. Respect what they want without resorting to saying people are way too nitpicky.

This discussion I made is not to talk about "costume ideas," if you want to talk about that, make your own thread. This thread was created solely on how people feel about the clothing choices that are given to the female characters. And not only just the Edenian characters, ALL of the female characters, even those who weren't around in Mortal Kombat 2011.