And who gave you the responsibility to define what an MK fan is? News flash...being a fan of something does not mean you have to be a fan of only a certain part of it and support only that one particular part. If you honestly think MK is defined only by John Tobias, why not just declare yourself as a fan of Tobias, instead of MK, and go hang around his boards or games?

Guess what, it doesn't matter what game or year someone starts liking MK for, they are still a fan of MK. You do not determine what makes an MK fan, and honestly it's guys like you that ruin everything to begin with. All you do is linger in the past and stick around only to voice your displeasure of how "things aren't like they used to be". You are no different than your typical snarky stuck up fanboy that thinks he's above the rest.

I am simply going to have to withdraw from this discussion, because I thought we were attempting to have a logical mature argument/debate over a meaningless video. Instead it's just boiled down to people overexaggerating and claiming to be superior for having a certain opinion, and acting as if those who do not agree are simply unimportant and wrong. You claim to be in your 20's, yet maturity does not come with age. So I reccommend growing up mentally, and freshen up on your social skills.

To Garlador... honestly, I couldn't give a single care about what people say is "cool". I'm not a MK fan because I want people to think the series is cool, I'm a fan because I personally like it, not because of what the mass media or the internet thinks. I also noticed you used Street Fighter as something people find "cool", and again... why exactly? Street Fighter is the most boring and predictable series alive today, but it is 'cool' because the games are just fun to play. It certainly has nothing to do with some big "mature" evolution. And once again, MK will still be a laughing stock without a good engine. With a decent engine and using the same concepts the story has always had, the series would be "cool" again. The problem has always and always will rest on gameplay, not the storyline.

I'm calling your statement about the people that like this video not being real MK fans simply because it is a different take on MK, pure jokess.

But that's not how business and commercial art works.

... and MK and WB are commercial companies that, as much as we want to ignore it, have the bottom-dollar in mind.

If the mass media and internet love it, and it becomes successful and makes them money, they'll do it.... and I'm okay with that.

So, in no way do I mean this to be rude in any possible way, but the MK team doesn't care if you don't care if it's cool or not. They'll do what they feel is best for the series, not necessarily for the fans. It's the way the industry works.

... and I support their decision, whatever the next direction will be.

No. It is not a different take on MK. It is simply not MK (except the names). MK is all about ninjas, outworld, netherealm, magic, sub bosses like Goro, Kintaro, Motaro, Elder Gods, Rayden etc. It is not about some thriller movie with gore in it. That has nothing to do with MK.

Baraka as a rasta man? Reptile is some kind a freak? Shang Tsung is a Chinese Triad???????? What the hell?

You mean the same way they listened to so many fans that screamed for fatalities after MK:DA, and so they catered to those same fans and at the same time produced the most broken engine of any modern fighter in MK:D? My point is that just because the majority wants something doesn't make it right. If you could go back in time knowing what you know now, would you support the fluffy additions made to MK:DA for MK:D, or would you rather focus on an issue the minority cared about, the fighting engine?

Personally, I'm not a fan of much that came after MK4, MKSM had great gameplay even though the story was mediocre, but the rest of the games were atrocious in both gameplay and story. Tobias really set the tone for what MK was, when he left, it lost the delicate balance between visceral fighting game and farce. Since then, it's devolved into shameless self parody and this clip has done little to bring it out of that rut. Sure, it's sensational and a thousand little Saw, Jason and Freddy fans will get their jollies off on it and the internets will be abuzz about it for a few weeks, months even, but it will come and go like the Max Payne movie, a crappy sidenote to an otherwise stellar franchise.

Ahem....
definitions of fans of MK aside, I just saw the video, and would like to share my thoughts.
First off, I have been a fan since the beginning. I was there in the arcades playing when MK1 came out, and remember the hysteria when MK2 hit the scene. I have been following the series wholeheartedly since then and yeah, I was disappointed with MKvsDC because I felt it did not mesh with MKs atmosphere very well.
And now this.
To put it simply, this has to be the worst idea for a recreation of Mortal Kombat I have ever seen. Period.
Is it a crime drama? A martial arts flick? A horror movie? I'm not sure what I just saw.
One of the things I love about Mortal Kombat is its atmosphere. You have these different fantasy realms with fighters in it all fighting for their realms, or personal agendas.
That WHOLE concept is thrown out the window now.
You have characters that are fantastical in nature. Baraka is part demon, and Reptile is, well, a reptile from another realm. The mystery of who these characters are, where they come from, and how they became who they are...
that WHOLE concept is thrown out the window now.
MK has a deep sense of mysticism at its very CORE. You have mystical realms. Mystical powers. Mystical legends.
Yes, now THAT whole concept is thrown out the window.
If they are stripping all of this out of MK, what are they going to do with characters like Raiden, god of thunder? Make him an attorney with the nickname Lord of Litigation?
To be fair, the part with Scorpion hinted, HINTED mind you, of SOME sense of mysticism...but for the most part, this is a very stripped down version of the franchise, a version that takes nearly every aspect of the franchise that made it special and says "screw you...we can make it more real and make it believable", when in fact it seems more rediculous than the original plot.

If they go this route, it will be the nail in the coffin for me, after nearly 18 years.

I've been accepting disappointment from MK for the past 10 years, why stop now?

I'm going to pray that's a joke.

Honestly? Yes. I would support the fluffy additions made to MK:D. And I would have continued to support their inclusion and refining in MK:A and future MK games. I would have also liked the fighting engine refined as well.

I can have my cake and eat it too. I happen to really enjoy MK:Deception as well, despite it's flaws. As I've mentioned numerous times before, you have to try new things, and fail often, before you get things right.

Nintendo is riding high on the Wii, but they produced the hilarious Virtual Boy flop. Street Fighter IV is the fighting game people wanted, but they had to endure Street Fighter EX series first. Batman had to get Batman & Robin before The Dark Knight.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, of course, but it goes both ways. In five years, maybe we'll wish we'd taken a direction like this while we're surrounded by MK: Special Forces 2. You don't know.

I just hope for the best, dare to innovate and reinvent.

Games, to me, are like musicians. The ones that change their image and reinvent themselves are the ones that are loved and remembered. The ones that are stagnant and resist change dwindle into the past and become fondly remembered, but irrelevant, products of their time.

If you're referring to me, quite honestly it is a joke, like this thread. With the amount of maturity that's going on in it, I'm disappointed with how horrible everyone is acting over a fucking video clip of a game. Seriously, but I did throw that out there as a reference. If we can accept change in the real life, why can't accept it in a freaking video game.

What game series really has succeeded in "reinventing" itself? I can't think of a single one, honestly. Not a single one. Street Fighter did not do this, at all. The series has always been the same. So has Tekken, so has Soul Calibur, so has Virtua Fighter. These are just fighting game examples.

Would you say series like Mario and Zelda are irrelevant because they have resisted change? The games are virtually the same as they have ever been, minus the transition to 3D.

Which game series has succeeded in reinventing itself?

Let's see: Resident Evil 4 was a significant shift for the series, both in terms of aesthetics, gameplay, puzzle-emphasis, enemies, story, location, and practically everything, becoming one of the highest rated games of all time.

Metroid Prime successfully moved the series from a side-scrolling shooting game to a first-person adventure game that I distinctly recall fanboys raging about for months about how it was going to be "ruined" and that they'd never buy it and that it would suck, only for it to be the highest rated game in the franchise and one of the most critically lauded games ever.

Grand Theft Auto shifted from an over-the-top, fairly plotless and mediocre game into a defining poster-child for the sandbox genre in Grand Theft Auto III.

Metal Gear totally reinvented itself with Metal Gear Solid on the Playstation and paved the way for cinematic, fully voiced, narrative-based games and reinvented the entire stealth genre as well.

Street Fighter II, the most beloved fighting game ever, was a sequel to a forgettable beat-em-up that entirely changed the focus of the series and practically invented a whole new genre of games.

Red Steel 2 totally altered everything the original game had, changing story, style, setting, gameplay, music, and even visual aesthetics, becoming a critical success that trounces its predecessor's attempt in every conceivable way.

And those are just a few examples.

No offense to any of thos series. But they dont have the stress on plot anywhere near the amount that MK does. I play tekken to death, yet its just mild plot devices and a few people fighting for the power of the mashima zaibotsu (spelling).

its really not hard to follow. but if i walk up to somebody and start talking about the Kamidogu and the one being. I then go into talk of the amulet and the battle against a fallen elder god that leads into a deminished elder god coming to the aid of earth...

LOL. what do you think people are going to think? All of my friends have been subjected to MK because of me, and even thos who have been around since 1991 still ask me things about the plot because its such a multi-pathed story.

The other games have gameplay, but put them all together and x10 and you still dont have anything like what we have with MK. Its the reason the series is still going. Im not looking to start arguments with SF fans etc... but its my opinion and I feel its supported quite well in comparison.

Ive accepted the fact that we could verywell be dealing with a reboot. After MKA, I feel its probebly the best. Knowing the path and all the new elements they want, start it over and give us something thats been planned out 3 games ahead of time. A deeper story that we had with more connections between plot devices.

I was here in 1991 (although a very young child) and I'll be here until 2091 and beyond for this series. I feel it will only get better with the budget and levels WB can give to the creative team. Boon himself sais this game looks wicked and WB representatives are saying they are very proud of what they have on a general note. If this was something they were unsure if we would accept, it would be much different.

Nothing to worry about I am sure everything will turn out just fine. Its natural to clash. Im clashing against myself after seeing that new video and conceptual approach to something I love so much. And then I look at MKA... story was a huge build up and now it cant go anywhere. A reboot is the best thing unless they pull soemthing out of their ass by discrediting Dahlia and make her influenced by the one being, have a shard of his conciousness come and be defeated, kamidogu spread and start it all over again on equel ground.

But I doubt we will be seing that happening. So lets just wait until E3 and see what happens guys. No use going into a rage blackout hahaha

None of those examples are 'total reinventions' in the slightest.
They altered and shifted surface elements common to long running aesthetics, but none of them changed anything fundamental to the series. Likewise, they didn't erase what came before it. In most examples, they added to, or embellish what was already there.

Games like GTA and Metal Gear took what was done and iterated on it in the same way MKDA (and MK4) was a step up from the digitized games. So to compare the Rebirth concept, and anything like it, with those reinventions would of course be the antithesis of what those examples stand for.


Also, why fear consistency? :crazyeyes:

Resident Evil 4 is still Resident Evil, and if you need to lie to yourself and say that it still doesn't feel like Resident Evil that's just fine. Leon is still Leon, the story did not change at all, it developed. It wasn't rewritten, it wasn't changed. The entire plot is still canon and all the characters are still exactly the same.

Same with Metroid. All the core aesthetics remained the same. Same lead character, same story, same everything but some gameplay differences. That is again not the level of "reinventing" we'd see by taking Rebirth here and making it the future of Mortal Kombat.

Grand Theft Auto is still about being a criminal, stealing cars and doing various acts of questing related to crimes. They merely evolved it into 3D, not an reinventing in the slightest.

Metal Gear was always a stealth game. You cannot compare NES games to Playstation games and make the claim it "reinvented itself" because it did not. It still starred Solid Snake, it still had everything the fans remembered from the old games. It was merely expanded for 3D and modern systems at the time.

Games with one game in the "series" are not really a series for those last two examples. So I still see no examples that could compare with taking what is Mortal Kombat now and making it into this Rebirth thing for good.

hahah reboots are fun. People get sad.

It's not the video that's bothering me. In fact, it looks like it would be a pretty cool movie adaption.

What bothers me is how the MK fans responded to this. Mortal Kombat vs. DCU, a fantastic game that combined great gameplay with a great crossover. Probably the best Mortal Kombat since the MK3 era. What do fans do when they hear about this? Sell their collections on ebay and go play Call of Duty, cuz dats wat mature peeps do.

Now this clip comes out. It takest all the mysticism of Mortal Kombat and tosses it out the window. Reptile has skin disease and Baraka is a doctor.

.....k

The fan reaction to this? To doctor Baraka? Something more ridiculous than Raiden fighting Wonder Woman in Hell? The reaction is, "its so mature and realistic! What a beautiful take on the MK franchise!"

da fuck?

Now I realize what the majority of the MK fanbase is. Blood obsessed pre teens who go nuts over dark and gritty crap. What I always thought was that the majority of MK fans loved MK for it's characters and it's themes. I thought fans liked using undead hell spawns bent on revenge to fight four armed dragon humans to decide the fate of the world.

Guess I was way off

Also, for the people who think the haters are hating because they are afraid of change, shut the fuck up. This has nothing to do with the fear of change. This has to do with the fear of changing a franchise to the point that the only thing it shares with the source material are names.

Just in case anyone hasn't seen this yet, it's an interview with the guy that plays Johnny Cage in this video. It was posted via Ed Boon's Twitter:

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/film/article/exclusive-interview-with-mortal-kombat-actor-104127

I just hope the Mk Team does a better job at rebooting the franchise than the Rebirth did. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but obviously if we're talking about the games here, there's no reason not to keep the characters closer to their original selves. It's gonna be madness for sure though come e3...It's not gurranteed to be a reboot, but at this point I wouldn't be suprised if it isn't. The Team has said after MK:A that that's what their plan was before MKvsDC was put in front of them.

Please, tell me what Red Steel 2 has in common with Red Steel 1? Or how connected Grand Theft Auto III is to Grand Theft Auto 1? Or even how the genres of Street Fighter 1 and Street Fighter 2 are similar? Even Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy IV are very different, with no connection of characters, summons, combat, exploration, story, music, visual aesthetics, etc. FFXII could've been released by a different company altogether and nobody would've thought it was a Final Fantasy game (unlike Lost Odyssey, which is more like its original games than FFXII).

I see more similarities with this MK reinterpretation than most.

We still have an Asian villain organization a tournament involving deadly fighters.
Johnny Cage is practically identical. Reptile still rips off and eats heads. Baraka still cuts things up with sharp teeth and arm blades. Jax is still partners with Sonya in a special police division tracking down serial killers. Scorpion is still an assassin with a spear hunting down his rival Sub-Zero.

That's more in common with the established games than Resident Evil 4 has with Resident Evil 3.

Ohhhhhh, okay. You're joking!
Haha! Sorry, I didn't get it at first. Nice!

Yeah, these bozos have no scope for the difference between the superficial and consistency within a franchise. It's wacky! FFXIII iz not a RPG like da FFVII. 3D car steelen iz diffrnt 2 da 3D carz. loool Classic!


Only because Bob and Dot were too busy arguing to save the game.

Not to get mixed up in this reinvention argument as well, but I thought I'd throw out an example, and just see what you guys think.

Splinter Cell: Conviction

It changed up it's way to play and appealed to more people than just stealth game fans, but still managed to keep the stealth as an option and possiblity, and the game ended up getting awesome reviews and revitalized the sries after Double Agent made people lose interest.

An example of a game series losing it's popularity because it refused to change is Tony Hawk. That game got old after Thug 2, and it has yet to rekindle it's fanbase with a new and improved game. They just seem to get worse. Meanwhile, The Skate games picked up all the fans who wanted something fresh.

I am not picking sides on the matter, because really I prefer MK to stay the same but with improvements, but wouldn't be totally against a new take...I just wanted to present some examples to see what you think.