Actually,both TTT and T4 were quite unbalanced.Maybe one more than the other,but I don't want to get into that.

I don't know,man.The damage was still kind of high IMO.People were doing EWGF,EWGF, 1,1,1,1, DEWGF with Kazuya I believe.Almost 50% of damage,if not 50% of damage.There were a bunch of other high damaging combos with characters like Raven and Hwoarang.

Marduk was kind of toned down I believe from the beta testings.He could do d/b+1+2, U/F+4, 1, Air Throw, which did like close to 60% of damage I believe.I assume the combo was either toned down in damage or you cannot do all of it (i.e. you cannot do the "1" in it).

Depends on what the arcades set the damage level to I guess.

I think somebody on TZ said that the damage settings might be all the same for all Arcade machines in the US.This far from confirmed of course.

What if they had a stun meter in MK7.

So you can break combos by just blocking normally like in other games, but if you are dizzy, you will not be able to break combos for a short period of time maybe a damage limit to it.

It could be that if your dizzy meter gets to a certain level, more attacks will be able to stun you and you will be unable to break combos.

I'm thinking something like the critical status in DOA3 when the opponent is stunned and unable to block.

Example of stun meter levels.

It would have 4 levels.

Level 4 = You can block during combos and do reversals while being hit like in DOA.

Level 3= You can block during combos

Level 2= You stun easily but can still block during combos

Level 1= You stun easily and you can't break out of a combo.

The meter fills up pretty quick and different attacks could knock you to different levels. = a weak attack will leave you at level 3 or 4, a med strength attack could move you down a level, a strong attack on counter hit will put you at level 1.

It could also be made kind of hard to knock someone in to the low levels, so you don't have any cheapness going on.

It would all depend on the attack and the properties given to them.

The dizzy meter may also effect other areas like your balance. Using Paul Phoenix as an example his d+4 sweep.

When you are at level 3 or 4, you don't have any block stun like in T3 and T4.

When at level 1 or 2, you have block stun like in Tekken Tag and T5.


It would be a way to implement both ways of using combos and adding some variety to game play tactics. It would also open up a lot more custom combos and set ups.

I think I'd be good if once in a while you could use a guaranteed string not too damaging though. Depending on the damage or if it's a juggler, it could be limited from 2-6 hits


In old kung fu movies you can see this happening, when both fighters are fine they can block during a combo, but if they take a strong hit, sometimes you will see a 11 hit combo connect.


To defend against a stun, you would have a sort of power up or something that you bring you back to normal. It could be an adrenalin rush, something like that.

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New special move idea.

Similar to Reptiles force ball.

The fighter would throw a ball of energy that explodes with proximity, so when the fireball gets close to the opp. it will explode.

You can throw the ball straight = Will launch the opponent back, can cause wall stun.

Throw it to the sides = explodes and throws the opponent side ways = good for positioning and ring outs.

Throw it low = Pops the opponent up towards you. Like Hotaru's fireball.
You can use the low blast once during a juggle to bounce the opponent back towards you when they get too far away during a juggle.

Force field = just make a large energy ball all around you and if the opponent touches it, they are popped up and back.

The energy ball could be blue, kind of electric gassy looking.

once again, this thread is brilliant. I'm agreeing with everything. I also had the charge moves, but I recommended them for MKD. Projectiles need to be more powerful, but of course you need a way to get around them. So here are a few ideas:

Raiden
All his moves are charge moves. To get any real damage effect, it would take a good time to charge the electricity. Of course they can't be simply blocked if thrown, but they can be sidestepped, and also have a good reasonable charge time.

Scorpion
Spear can be thrown and can't be blocked but has to be wound back up. Allowing him to yank his spear back is an option, so it functions also as a weapon. So rope physics are needed. Making some interesting whip combos with the spear could be pretty cool. Fire breath shouldn't be blockable, but should take a while to generate.

Liu Kang
Flying kick should be based on how long you run at the person.

Okay you get the idea, and this applies to other characters.

Also I think block itself shouldn't be so reliable. You do have the slight damage when you block, but why not increase the damage throughout the match. If you were blocking the same attack over and over, the hands are gonna get tired and yes hurt more. I'd also like to see some blocking with legs too, which could maybe lead to some counters.

^^^^^

Great ideas!

MK team I hope you're listening.

I hope the MK team reads this stuff and also reads the reviews for other fighting games so they don't make the same mistakes.

I really like those ideas. The stun would make battles more intense and the fighters will have to be on their toes if they want to win a battle...

The new "force ball" moves also kick ass...






For Raiden (I think Bleed already mentioned this) I think his electricity could last longer and do more damage. What I mean is, let's say, for a ground attack, Raiden shoots electricity at you while you're on the ground, but if you rapidly tap the button you used to attack, the electricity would continue to shoot out of Raiden's hands (like in the MK: D intro when Raiden was frying Shang). The move would have a time limit, like 4 seconds. While your electrocuting your opponent, he would start squirming around on the floor, yelling in pain. This move could also be done next to a wall. If your opponent's back is to a wall, and you do this move, the force of the electricity would launch the opponent into the wall and continue to electrocute him...

If it launches them to the wall and they are still off the floor, the electricity could keep them up there off the floor, when it stops they would fall to the floor.

That'd be really cool to see...

I posted an idea a long time ago about just frame blocking.

The idea was that normally if you hold block during recovery time, you would have to wait a pre set time.

But if you tap block right when the opponent attacks you would do a quick block animation that flows with your recovery animation.

for example if you throw a high kick, you would be able to do a High / med just frame block. The animation would be that you put your knee up and block your face with your arm. Like How Sagat blocks.



Now I just went to TekkenZaibatsu and guess what I find!

Just frame block in Tekken 5

Look on the right where it says Tekken 5 Short clips.
Feng parry JF block.

good stuffff.....

Wow, Tekken 5 is looking kick ass. Makes me want to get a Playstation 2...

What about a just frame command throw that does no damage. Let me explain. It's kinda reminiscent of the position change in Tekken where there's no real attack being done but depending on where the throw was performed, from the front, side, or back, the resulting position would be different allowing for a different outcome. The normal throw would do damage but when it's a just frame and I approach someone from the front and do the throw he'd be placed flat on his back, from the side he'd end up back turned, if from behind he'd end up on his stomach. The benefits arising from the lack of direct damage would be a significant increase in frame advantage allowing for potentially even more subsequent damage than the normal throw could have done. Of course, this throw would have a smaller escape window (if the game has 10 frame windows normally this would have maybe 7 frames) but if it is broken the opponent would get a lot of frame advantage as well. High risk/High reward?

Nice, it's a good set up move.

If they have the jab and side step technique from VF4 where you can cancel recovery frames to a side step, you could do something like this.

combine it with this attack= (Spinal touch) = It's a Med punch to spine. It looks like a strong gut punch to the lower spine that makes the opponent bend backwards then fall to their knees.

Use it like this in a combo....

Jab, sidestep, just frame side throw, Med punch to spine = back stun to collapse, wait a sec. till the opponent falls to their knees and do a Crouching Back throw.

Crouching back throw could do like 45% damage.

Jab = 5% damage

Spinal touch = 15%

for a total of 65 % damage.

Nice!

Awesome. And that damage would be earned. The timing involved in all that, plus the risk of the throw being broken makes it more fair than the 65% damage someone can do in Deception with little more than a 50/50 and a string.

I dunno if this was mentioned but what about simple rising attacks? I mean every so once in a blue moon I get knocked down, and would love to surprise the person who is now running at me. So to balance this out we'd need ground attacks. So maybe combining it with some of the dizzyness ideas in the thread, you maynot be able to getup right away (start hammering the buttons), and then the opponent can try to step on you or something. So here come a few ideas:

Raiden:
rise: body rages electrcity and sends the person back a few steps
ground: inverted superman dive onto the person, electricution

Liu Kang
rise: dragon tail sweep
ground: Bruce Lee style jump on back and twist

Scorpion
rise: ring of fire, circle whip of spear
ground: stab with spear blade, fire raise

etc
No I didn't mention different possibilites for one rise/ground attack, but multiple rise/ground attacks, which could attack various points on the fighter and have strengths and disadvantages. Keep the fighter guessing. Also now as typing this I thought of just a few defensive rises (you shoudn't attack all the time, keep them guessing).

Sub-Zero
defense rise: ice roll back

Raiden
defensive rise: modded angular teleport

Also in terms of background levels, can we get something not so level? I love DOA3s levels, not all being even ground.

Here is a another variation to the combo.

Add a kick to the ass that makes the opponent stumble forward 1-2 steps then fall on their stomach.

It's just a basic df+k like Akira does only that you happen to be behind the opponent and they are crouching, you will have the special effect.



Jab, ss, JF throw, Spinal touch, kick in the ass, ground follow up


If you are aligned with the wall the opponent would bash their head to the wall and stumble back and fall.

So it would look like this.

Jab, ss, JF throw, Spinal touch, Kick in the ass = wall stun, back throw.

this could go in to the 70% damage range.

The back throw would probably do more damage than a wall combo, but whichever does the most damage would be the one to use.

I'd be kind of funny to watch.

Wait, now let's go over board!

If you have the wall bounce like in VF4, you could do this....

Jab, ss, JF throw, Spinal touch, Kick in the ass = wall stun, wall combo, ground throw or stomp attack = ala Tekken.

80 to 100% damage.

The victim would have several places in which they can escape though.

1 = off the side step, some attacks can't be avoided by a L or R side step.

2 = Throw escape on the just frame throw

3= Wall tec. recovery after the kick to the rear.

4= Tec. roll after the wall combo.

Whoah!

Dejavu....

I thought of that same idea last night I even wrote it down and made a few sketches.

Here is what I wrote.....

Moves that can be done when floored.

Normal stand up attacks = like in VF4.

Reversals = Aoi in VF4, This might be able to go in to a throw chain.

Timed guard = time it like a reversal.

Combos = Lei wulong and Voldo

Stance change

Roll

Stand up

Stay down

Fireballs = depends on the fighter.

Some teleporter fighter like Smoke could fall to the ground and immediately go in to his teleport punch = smooth motion. Must be timed like a tec. Roll.

Some fighters could use special moves just for ground purposes = like instead of a roll back, you could do a flying or teleport move = like The wolves’s fireball in Dark Stalkers.

There could also be a similar move that would have you fly towards the opponent and trespass them.

....
Up up and away....

haha....I was thinking of bumpin it too.

I had an idea that I posted in another thread a long time ago...

I think that all the characters should have only one hand -to-hand style and one weapon style. But instead of changing styles with the stance change button in MK: DA/MK: D, the only way to take out your weapon would be to press a certain button combination, like in MK4. Once you press the button combination, a little animation would show you taking out your weapon (Sub-Zero would quickly create a sword with his hands, Scorpion would pull a sword out from his back, If Noob Saibot's weapon is a scythe next time, a puff of black smoke could come from the ground and once the smoke clears a scythe would be there and he would grab it, ect...) I'd really like to see these character specific weapon animations. Don't think this would eliminate style branch combos. In fact, it would make them look cooler...


Lets say the button combination to Sub-Zero's weapon animation was down, down-back, back + 1. Subby could have a combo that includes his weapon. The combo could be something like... 2, 2, 4, 3, down, down-back, back + 1

After you press down, down-back, back + 1, Subby could put his arm over his shoulder as if he is about to swing a sword. Then, quickly, the Kori Blade would materialize out of nowhere and Subby would slash his opponent. The combo would be fairly quick and it would look really fluid...


Another example is for Noob Saibot, using the weapon animation I listed above...

Lets say his weapon animation button combination was forward, back + 3. He could have a style branch combo that went 4,2,1, forward, back + 3

After you press forward, back + 3, the puff of black smoke would come from the gound. Then, quickly, Noob Saibot would reach for it with both arms at once, instead of one, and as he pulls it away from the smoke, he'd slash his opponent...


This little addition would make the combos look much more fluid and much cooler...

man you sure know a lot of stuff about games i play games too i see the differences but not that deep and thecnical like you work in game industry, mk is different of tekken im fan of tekken series.
first my character in mkd was scorpion now i changed with shujinko, man i hate people that use only 3 moves i know they are cheap players but they have no fair play i try to use some combos and combinations and some use with nightwolf this pattern lool :shoulder,lightning,throw its an example there are so many and some caharacters like dairou ?lol.tombstone move?loooool.............
shujinko it has so many moves that i forget them i think im stupid

They really should make the style changes with weapons a motion like it was in Mortal Kombat 4....

Am I the only one that believes that MK Deception has TOO many buttons?

Cool stuff so far guys. What about fighting style selection? Meaning you pick your fighter and then choose from one of three fighting styles. With each style having different properties and assuming the game actually has decent balance this could ensure that no two fights look exactly alike.



I'm out of time right now, but I'll put this in more detail later.

Great ideas cartmansp.

That would look great in game.

I think the commands should be fast like normal fireball commands.

like roll motions or simple 2 direction commands.

something like d,d,b,b+1 would be too hard to link to a combo because it's a little long. I'd rather have it be something like d,b+1 for normal combos.

Then maybe you could have a more powerful weapon link attack that could have the longer command. d,b,d,f+1 but still a slide motion because it's easier to input faster.

Think about linking super moves in Street fighter or King of Fighters.

Those would be extra strong weapon link attacks.


There could also be a way to pull out a weapon by throwing an attack.

There could be a few ways to take your weapon out.

db+1, df+1, bf+1.

db+blk would just take the weapon out without attacking.


Now how would you take the weapons out with normal fighters like Darius?

Maybe all the fighters come with the weapon strapped to them.

Now that I think about it....I think the style change button should stay how it is now.

1 = it's an easy comand for a general move = pick up and play.

2 = You can do any weapon attack instantly if you press sc + a weapon command = Variety

3 = It's fast, an overly long animation would make it unsafe to change styles like in MK4.

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About the choose your style idea.

It sounds good, but then if you check out the reviews for Kakuto Chojin, you'll see that they had the same idea. Choose style 1 = Kakuto or style 2 = Chojin.

The review said that the fact that you couldn't use both styles at the same time was bad and it caused a lower rating.

I can see where they get that idea. When I played the game, there were some moves from the fighters other style that I wished I could do with the normal style. It's like a bummer.


IMO the best thing for them to do is to have 1 hand style which could be a mix of several styles in one. Then have 1 weapon style.

Either style can have several different stances like what Lei Wulong and IVY have.