I can't even look in Verse's high level thread anymore let alone post in it. It's just rediculous that every other post is about what new glitch is abusable. Now we've got that "flight mode" garbage that gives me a chuckle. Ed Boon pushed Ray, the only guy who seemed to know what's going on, away from MK. It just feels so stupid now. I look back over the last year's worth of gameplay topics (I have them all archived on my harddrive) and I can't help but think of how stupid we were and still are to a point. It's stupid that over the last year our expectations lowered so much. At first we were having great discussions about really in depth things. After a while it changed to just wanting something that's actually functional and we didn't even get that! I'd be happy with Toshinden's engine right about now. But isn't that the problem? Our expectations are as low as a game that was a PSX launch title and we still end up being dissappointed. They say they improved the engine from DA and I suppose those improvements included adding more infinites than DA, more glitches than DA, and "flight mode" just for kicks.

MK fans have a stereotype of being dumb as silt. I'm starting to believe it. We're morons. Either morons who don't know why the game sucks or morons who do know but stick around anyway. People will blast me as an "MK Hayt3R" and you know what? I don't care. Those people are the first type of moron. I'm the second type. There have been games that I looked forward to but ended up kinda sucking before but it's different for MK. If a game sucks then it sucks and you move on. But for me I see so much more potential in MK so I sometimes take it too personally when that potential is wasted. Once again I appologize. I just need to get this off my chest.

Well, I think that the MK team does use this site as a kind of "demographic and user" source. Though, I think they simply grab up and jock what they see to be accessible, mainstream and - most importantly - convenient to implement.

I am utterly disgusted with MKD - mechanics and gameplay wise - more so than DA. With D, there seams to be more of an attempt to make it an actual fighting game. However, it IS the most broke, half assed piece of trash ever made. More so than MvC. Least the broken shit in MvC was semi skill based, to a point. A random scrub just can't run in and bust out Iron Mans infinite.

This garbage in D is simply mind blowing, though. Just amazing how messed up this game is. We, as players, should not have to deal With this garbage. And anyone who tries to defend it saying something like "everyone is broke so deal with it" or "there are three or four broke character that can hang" or some other, scrubby shit is retarded. I'm sorry, really, but I'm am extremely fed up with what we've been fed.

Float jumping, EASY AS HELL infinites, corner trap throw glitches, straight up broken moves, everything. Plus, the game STILL doesn't hold a shit lick worth of decent mechanics. I'm just sitting here, thinking about it, and shaking my head. I honestly do not understand. I mean, it's not like these are little things. They are major "hey look at me, i'm fucking broke and destroy the game" issues.

Exceptions should not be made in an attempt to "mold" it into a semi playable and competitive game. We should not have to break the intended mechanics in order to win and be competitive. That is not an option. If such is the case however, it is NOT a good product and it should NOT be supported.

It's kinda funny. I hated on DA because it lacked depth, logic, at least applicable mechanics. I figured the same would happen With D, knowing the track record of MK and my past experience with similar situations. Oddly, that wasn't the case. The D is simply a shit sandwich. It is broken, to the point of being almost un-playable. And this is happening now...NOW!! Can you imagine wtf is going to be out there in three of four months?!

Because of that realization, we develop ideological concepts aimed at the MK dev team. We - or at least me - ask our selves, just what the fuck are they thinking? Do they even understand wtf a fighting game is? Do they not understand the fundamental flow and purpose of it? Do they not know how to test properly? Do they even care? How many of them smoke crack on a regular basis?

"Shakes head..." I'm kind of in a haze over this situation. My mind is buzzing, I have yet to slow myself down and try to develop a coherent thought. Give me a few weeks and I think I'll be able to express myself a bit more elegantly and efficiently.

Peace and love ya'll.

Awesome thread, haven't read all of it but that's because it is massive. This could be a sticky.

Well, what I thought in my own mind has come true. I didn't develop any high expectations for MK:D after playing MK:DA for a month max(I'm being generous). Sure, I bought into the "maybe, it will...."(The moron in me), but I honestly had a feeling that the puzzle game would be the best feature in the game, and I believe that is the case.

Don't get me wrong, I love fighting games, and I also love puzzle games, but I like fighting games a WHOLE lot more. Since, MK cannot prove to me that it is a fighting game, I enjoy the puzzle. It is really sad, that I have over 400 games of puzzle Kombat played, but only 190 or so(to beat the game with every char) and about 50(online) of actual fighting matches. I can gaurentee more than that when Tekken 5 hits the shelves.

I keep seeing threads claiming that people are playing with cheese, or playing a certain way is cheese, and people, overall, are bitching about other people's play style online. Have these people, who complain about the cheese, ever thought and said, "Wow, this is the MK team's fault for making a broken game??" No, they just complain about their opponent being cheap. You guys, in this thread, said that you would show them the game's faults, and now, it's not poor game design(couldn't be that), it's you all's cheese.

I even read one post that talked about a guy doing the same 2 things over and over(high attack that breaks low & throw) to win a match. Hmmmm. Didn't someone in here constantly talk about 50/50 mixups? OF COURSE.

I don't post often, but I came in here to read because I love this thread, but now I am getting upset(Actually, I've been upset, but needed to rant). What really pisses me off is fight night. "There are infinites in every fighting game, it's unavoidable" WTF!!!! Sure, infinites have popped up in other fighters, but as you all stated above... extremely hard to find, very hard to perform, and never an insane amount(infinites are not in every fighter to my knowledge). It may be unavoidable, but how many have been found in MK in the first 3 weeks????

This kind of attitude from the MK team shows me how serious they are in making this a polished game... Unavoidable??? That may be, but the next installment sure won't be unavoidable for me to purchase.

On a further note, to the one's complaining about the 50/50 mixup when they get up after being knocked down. I've seen people retaliating in these kind of threads that say, "We don't want MK to be like other fighters.", but in all honestly, a wake up system would help this out tremendously, and it has been advocated by many in these kind of threads.(it is probably why other top fighters have a wake up system implemented, so people can't cheese on 50/50 when a fighter tries to stand)

Making the game deeper, doesn't make it like other games, it just gives you more options. Scorpion can still have his spear, but when he gets knocked down from missing... he shouldn't be 50/50'd to death because he can't attack back while on the ground. Nor, should he be punished with an infinite combo that ends the round. Ridiculous!!

Just my thoughts. I don't blame the players, I blame the game. At least, in other fighters, I stand a chance by being creative.

I really wanted to play this seriously. I really planned on learning the ins and outs of the game and playing competitively online. That's not going to happen now. I notice that theres new Xbox Live and PS2 Online tournament boards on this site. I wonder how much use they're going to get? You can't even ban things in this game for tourneys because the list of banned crap will be longer than the list of what's allowed. MK:D goes beyond broken. T4 Jin is broken, MVC2 is broken, MK:D is rubble after an explosion. I don't care if this game fell apart after a year or so. But to find all these glitches and bs mechanics within the first couple of weeks? This tells me something. They had two years worth of development time so theoretically they had nearly that much time for play testing since they used much of DA's engine from the start. What they apparently missed in quality assurance was found within two weeks of release by people on this site. Not even a large number of people. What the hell are they doing over in Chicago? Play testing involves finding problems. They get PAID to break the game and can't do it properly in two years time while a handful of people on this site can do it in two weeks? WTF? I usually don't like to make comments about how someone does their job if I haven't done it myself but this time I think it warrants saying that a gorilla with cerebral palsy is more qualified to work as quality assurance at Midway than the people they have there now.

Dude, no joke. While I was typing up my last post and watching the world series I was, infact, eating.....saltines.....how's that for irony? 0_0

SleepWalker is right....don't hate the players; people, hate the game.

Trust me, no one will sticky this, unfortunately.

I hope the mods will sticky this thread.

Sorry, but for some reason gameplay is looked on as evil. Discussions of it will not be endorsed by MKO.

Not necessarily, as Versatile's High Level gameplay thread is stickied.

The reason is more probably because MK is being 'bashed', when we are more or less describing it pretty accurately. �_�
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they were thinking of a way to ban us all 'elitists', as most of them call us.

I was thinking of something earlier about MK.Since MK is the most over the top fighting game out there.Why can't they take realistic things and make them exaggerated?BTW,I hope they remove the Death Traps and just have them for the end of the match.They over did it in MKD with the Death Traps.

They need to take the Death Traps and make them stage fatalities.....

Regardless...... If there is ANY thread in this room that deserves to be stickied, its this one

I suppose what we say isn't exactly the most widely accepted viewpoint on this site but everyone who disagrees needs to at least admit it to themselves that we back up what we say pretty damn well. If they can't see the facts then they're just fooling themselves. I'd like to see someone back up the opinion that deception is fine. Problem is, there's so many braindead people on these boards that their idea of backing up their opinion is saying it's an opinion. Well then if that works then it's my opinion that the earth is flat. So defending Deception is like defending the flat earth theory. There ya go. Defend away. The MKO staff doesn't help matters much by ignoring these threads but stickying a thread about a Special Mortal Kombat: Deception Promotional Set.

This is an accurate critique of the game, why wouldn't the owner/mods want to sticky this? Are they afraid of getting left out of more invites to Chicago?

Why would a high level thread make it and not this - actually, why don't we copy and paste this stuff into the high level gameplay thread since that is what it is about?

Yes,still the best thread around.

I cannot add much since everything has already been said.

It's very unlikely,however,that MK will ever be good again.Boon is earning enough money and the majority of the fans don't know or don't care.It's really like a cycle or a trap that the series cannot get out of in order to improve things.While other companies advance,Midway seems to be going downwards with the MK series gameplay wise.In addition,Boon's ignorance and disrespectful behavior could clearly be seen at Fight Night.It was just pathetic and completely unprofessional.Oh well,you guys keep doing what you're doing.In any case,Tekken 5 will be out soon and that shit should be worth playing competitively.

It really is frustrating to know what they could do with this game, then seeing what comes out.

They do keep falling in the same trap and keep making the same mistakes and coming up with entirely new ones.

I don't know.......I seriously think that either the people working on MK don't really understand what a good fighting game is. Either that or Boon is too stubborn to take on other peoples advice and ideas since he is the lead.

I think that might have been one of the reasons for Ray getting booted. I think Boon saw the Game play thread Ray made and got offended by it. He has reason to be offended because some people are overly harsh. But then he has to realize that we are the fans asking for something that would make the game better. Don't take it as an insult, take it as a helping hand or constructive criticism.

We are only trying to help them out.

I'm like 90% sure MK will never be the fighter we hope for unless they get some new people working on it or they open their minds.

I don't know these people so I don't know how they think, but this is what I gather from their work.

Keeping in mind that Ed is the lead and decides what will be in the game I could be wrong though, they could do it as a majority rules type of thing. Whatever.....


It would help a lot if they hired some of the people in this thread to help them out with the game play design.

Hire some people that really understand fighting games.

I know one thing for sure, making an MK game every year is going to produce some low quality stuff.

They are putting waaaay too much strain on them selves and it's going to explode in their faces.

I might be under estimating them, but I have to say, I see this problem coming from a mile away.

1 game every 2 years would be better.

Another problem could be that they won't try harder unless they are forced to. We can ask suggest and beg for better game play. But if the game keeps selling like it does with the system it has now, I don't think they will try to out do themselves just to make the fans happy.

Money is #1 and if they can slack on stuff and still make the big bucks, then why try harder?

That might be one of the problems too, but I'm just speculating. I don't know what's really happening.

It's just that when you see such enormous errors in game play design over and over. One has to wonder what's going on?


I hope that now that they are pumping out an MK every year, they don't waste 80% of the time on extras and mini games.

Please Ed don't do this again, ficus on the game play.

If there is a side game, don't make it so it takes too much time from the really important part of the game.

Remember how every body loved MK2 and they still do.

That game wasn't packed with extras and people still bought it and still love it to this day.

If you want to expand on the MK franchise, make the side games separate, have a different team working on them, like what's happening with MK Shaolin Munks.

This will make a lot more money than having all that in 1 game.

Here are some ideas for what to do with the Side games.

1= have adventure games like MK Shaolin Munks sold separately. This is an excellent idea. Props to whoever though of that.

2= Make more 2D games. You hear a ton of people talking about how they liked the 2D games better. Well....if you make them, they will sell. I know I'd buy them in the blink of an eye. Just remember to have online play. Even Boon him self said he'd love to make more 2D games. DO IT!!! Make at least one but make it awesome and add the new technology for special effects. I say give it at least 1 game and see how it does in the market.

3=Small games like Puzzle and chess can be put straight in to the Main MK fighting game as mini games.

A good game engine is the super-unlockable.

I wish

Hmmmmmm.....

Where to start.....

First off let me extend a BIG thank you to everyone involved in this thread. A big thank you to everyone over the past YEAR+ who fought the good fight in trying to get people involved in the gameplay improvement aspect of this game.

I don't want to say that as a group we failed (lmao) because A lot of you still hold out hope for MK7( LMAO again).

The amout of time you all took to make the threads, gather info, converse and explain your point IMO is astounding. I doubt that many of you will find a lot of threads on your own board (assuming this is not your primary board) that have a lot of member who will break it down to such a level that even the noobs can understand.

On page 2 of this thread I said my last word on this game and eased on out. I came back only to see if I was right or wrong. I made GARUNTEES about this game. And I was right. We all were right.

You know what it means to be on point about this game about a year before its release? We were shitted on from getting info from vids and breaking it down. Flamed for not actually playing the game. NOW we have have the game. Was I right or was I right? Were we right or were we right?

I said this in aug:

"Good thread.

But I can safely say that nothing will change in MK. Not the way we want. Not matter how much we try. It's sad. but you'd have a better chance getting capcom to make new sprite for a non-existant 2D game.

So, as menthol stated long ago, time to ease on out and let those who can overlook the flaws in MK play the game.

I, and many like me cannot over look that flaws mentioned in this thread and play the game. So we gotta go. It's only fair. I'm sure when MK:D comes out it'll be flawed in the gameplay dept but wasn't every MK? God damn....that's sad.

I love MK. I am not just a MK player but I also collect all things MK. I will COLLECT these new mk's.

I doubt I will play them.

Not with CFJ and SF:AC (arcade perfect) online.

Peace."


I mean seriously, WTF is that?

I may have been one of the more brash posters on here with B00gieman, Neuro, wanderer, Men, etc but we all had it right. I give props to all of us we had it right from day one and weren't taken in buy big brested renders and cool right outs.


I can't even bring myself to play this game again.

I commend you guys. You are, without a shadow of a doubt, the TRUE MK fans on this board. WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more that I ever could be. More than every other poster on this retarded MKD board.

You don't suck Midway cock for cookies and tours.
You don't breakdown this game for cash and trips.
You don't hide your ture opinions to get to chat with the MK team.
You don't distort the fact to get a few more sales of this shitty-ass game.

I sware to GOD this place is backwards. Why the fuck is this thread not stickied? Is this a board reflecting the MK community or not? Are we the MK community or not? Is there not a well spring of info here free of use that can improve the game for ALL here or not? WTF is this garbage?

MK community my ass. It's sad that we the MK fans who want something credible and a little something more in the gameplay, something like the genre STANDARD in mechanics and tech play get huddled into one or two threads. It fucking sick. I makes me sick to see that a game I loved so damn much that I used to play so much is now just a random piece of garbage. Yeah, read that last sentence again.

For those of you who will to give MK 7 a chance, I ask you why?

Bleed, out of everyone here man, I know some of the shit you posted along with style was deep. Shit that should be in. That would Make MK a lot better. I commend you on your venture to get MK to some sort of even playing field with other games let alone fighters.

Tony, that first rant you posted has gotten mad respect from every fighter board I posted it on. They ALL feel you. They ALL know you're right. You want better, you hope for better but you get shitted on. Yet, you still hold out hope. A trooper. The knoweldge that you are not alone in your disgust for this trash should make you feel a bit better. You did deserve better.

As frot he rest of you, keep fighting the good fight IF you think it's worth fighting for. I personally don't. MK2 till now midway + Boon and company have done NOTHING, NOTHING to show me MK is nothing more than garbage. ANYTHING they have done to make the gameplay better has made me laugh. UMK3 is the best they will ever do. And the main reason why that game is good is due to the large roster and the fact that is MK3 revamped many times. I won't give the time of day to MK7. I won't spend the time and effort like I did for deception and DA trying to get discussion on gameplay going. I won't. I ask you all not to do the same.

Cause I'm I'm making another garuntee: MK7 will be shit just like DA and Deception. Think I'm wrong? Just wait about a year.

I'll still be around. I'll read the threads you all decide to make to get discussion started but I'll stop myself from posting. Lord knows it will do no good here.


Peace.

0_0

That was one of the greatest posts I have ever read. Simply beautifull. Thank you, col, thank you.

I agree. Thank you, Colguile. If not for the small little community within the community I've found myself fall into then I wouldn't have stayed here very long. As for your question why I'll give MK7 a chance? Heh, I don't know. My common sense tells me otherwise but then again I'm an MK fan so I don't have common sense. I won't buy MK7 outright, though. MK lost the right to that and entered the rental first zone after this mess. I guess it's just hard for me to let go of a game that was there for me since the beginning. Whether this logic makes sense or not is up for debate but Mario has been there for me since day one of the action platformer generation and I still love Mario games and have never stopped playing them. Same goes for Zelda, Castlevania, Megaman, etc. All those games are still around and all sell well. What I'm saying is that Mortal Kombat was there from the beginning of the fighting generation so like those other games it's hard to just walk away from.

Megaman is a good example. Look at the reviews of X7, Command Mission, and most of the recent Megaman games. The games are not that good. The reviews reflect that. MK is an anomaly. It's the only game series that has floundered on quality so much yet still makes a lot of money and gets great reviews. By not seeing the flaws the self proclaimed MK fans are doing the series a great disservice. You're absolutely right. MK7 will be garbage. But I guess before I walk away I have to at least give the series a last chance, not for Boon or Midway, screw them, but for me and that little grade schooler that had so much fun back in the early 90s.

MK has entered the dangerous "extended rental" zone as well for me. To give you an idea -- I pre-ordered every home port of the mk games months in advance.

I just cant be bothered to fight AGAINST the MKD* engine. I have no idea how the dev team can go and say "well i think its fluid enough, send the disc to the QA"

I'm giving up

Sorry guys. Even with all the explainations on this thread, I still like my MKD. Why? Because it has its own feel. To me, that does not make it garbage. IF I have fun, then it's not garbage to me. I have said it so many times before. If I want Tekken, I will play Tekken....etc. But I don't. I want MK. The day MK turns into a Tekken clone is the day I quit playing.
I have said THIS before too. The MK team has one heck of a challenge. They have to make a brand new fighting engine in 3d while still maintaining that classic MK feel to it. Given that, I would say they succeeded. Here is a question: How do you retain the classic MK feel WITHOUT turning it into another Tekken clone? How?
I'm sorry, but from what I am reading on here, it sounds like MK would turn into bloody Tekken. And to me, that is just not fun.
I appreciate the fact that MK could use improvements (as could all fighting games) but turning it into a Tekken clone has always been a huge concern of mine. I want it to be seperate. I want it to play differently. And it does. Now, if there is a way to add what all the "hardcore" gamers want, and have it still NOT be a Tekken clone, ok, I would probably be all for it. But as for now, the ideas mentioned, sorry, they just do not appeal to me, and I am sure that I am not alone.
Do as you wish with this game. I am going to continue to have fun with it.
Later.

I use to say almost the exact same thing, but then I got my hands on a really good fighting game and I realized how crappy the MK:DA engine was.

I/we don't want MK to be exactly like other games, I/we just want it to ,at least, have some of the essential fighting game elements (Counter moves, multiple throws, frame advantage, fluidity).

You should read through all the gameplay threads if you want to see some great ideas that would improve the fighting engine...

Well, I will read it again then...but from what I have seen, I am pretty convinced that doing many of these things will turn it into another Tekken clone, and I really do not want to see that happen to my MK. I just can't seem to get into Tekken, or VF. My friends and I get really good with them, but they still don't hold our attention as much as MKs gameplay does.

You should read through all the gameplay threads if you want to see some great ideas that would improve the fighting engine...