I didn't mean that they don't ever listen to fans, hence "limited fan input", I meant mostly they stick to their guns and do what they want at the end of the day. Which is fine, and they do listen to fans on a lot of things like getting fanservice characters into games when they can as DLC or Khameleon in Armageddon, etc.

The dlc should be interesting.

Speaking of NRS and fans, can you guys think of any other developer that breaks the fourth wall as much as Netherrealm does?

Like, you look at MK1, and there are literally hints to the players directly about Reptile, then the red herrings in the arcade menus. Inserting games like Pong just for shits. Characters like Mokap, "Friendship, AGAIN!?" I can't think of any other game series that interfaces with it's fans through their games as much as Mortal Kombat does.

FUCK KILLSWITCH. BITCH ASS MOD WRONGLY BANNING MEMBERS.

LMAO

Oh here go, I knew it'd eventually come to this:


Wanting reps from different eras and a more balanced roster = wanting Mokap and Kobra playable = we're all diehard 3D era fantards

Give me a fucking break

I would really want to know what if characters like Kobra and Darrius were introduced in MK1 and MK2, the same arguments and nostalgia shield would apply to them I bet.

They undoubtedly would. I wish people would admit that, I'm not even saying it's a bad thing nor would I hold it against them.

It's times like these I wish JAX007 worked at NRS. His updated designs of Quan Chi, Frost, Kenshi, Tremor and Tanya were drop dead gorgeous.

Good discussion honestly, I loved reading all of your guys' points. I believe personally that NRS does not hate the 3D era characters, they're just kind of hesitant to bring them back. I also agree that not every 3D character is worth salvaging, like Darrius or Kira. They never really had a fan-base at all and no one will miss them, but some are definitely worth saving.

I loved darrius and ive seen others say they liked kira. not saying i think darrius should be in MKx, cus he shouldnt, but all the charcters deserve to be given a chance to be expanded on eventually.

I'm not starting this thread to be a contrarian or hipster, in fact I like several of the new characters in this game.

I just don't think they're any more impressive than the batch of new characters we've been getting since MK4. I think each game has had it's share of awesome new character concepts but it feels like this game in particular has people really hopping on certain bandwagons and I'd just like to know some people's opinions on why.

I mean some people are praising them more than some of the MK3 characters.

I know not every new character will be a hit with a lot of people, but I always see people say "oh everyone hated all the MK3/4/DA/D/A characters for a good reason" when half the time I never remember any people saying that until years after the fact. Like revisionist history. I always remember people talking about enjoying the new characters and looking forward to them, both hardcore fans and new fans.

In my experience, and of course anecdotal evidence doesn't really mean a thing, but the people I see trash on the games inbetween MK3 and MK9 are people who admit to playing MKII once or twice as a kid and then only getting into the series with MK9, but then they talk about all those other games being trash when they admit to never playing them. It reminds me of people pretending to know about sports or comic books and talk like authorities on them while being totally unashamed of admitting they're not knowledgeable on the subject.

So what do you guys think? Are the people bashing old characters and praising the new ones just a vocal minority?

Are they just presented better? Is it some form of bandwagoning? Am I a loser? Yes is the clear answer to that last question, but what about the two before it?

They're presented very well this time around. I hate to use the blanket word but some of the old "new" characters of the 3D era came across as generic.

Everyone in this new one has their own personality.

Why is erron black better than mavado?
Why is Cassie better than Kira?

I have no better answer than effort. Similar archetypes simply look and SEEM better than before. Time will tell.

As a trilogy purist, for better or worse, these new characters feel more cared fored than previous ones by the creators.

If they don't give a shit about their new characters why would we? (in reference to mk5 and 6.)

Well, I'm not really fans of either of them to be honest. There's a decent amount of characters from the 3D games that I'd replace Erron Black with at the drop of his hat.

Both of them have decently unique movesets at least so I think they're comparable.

Kira just had moves from older characters if I remember correctly.

I honestly have no idea. Who's been saying it and how many? Don't recall seeing a ton of people saying so, but I will agree that in terms of character design, NRS seems to be on a roll with the new characters this time around. I, myself, have always been partial to roughly three-fourths of the newbies they bring out each game up until MKX, no idea why. For example;

MK2
Like: Kung Lao, Reptile, Shang Tsung, Kitana, Mileena, Shao Kahn
Dislike: Baraka, Jax, Kintaro

MK3
Like: Nightwolf, Jade, Noob, Rain, Cyrax, Smoke, Sektor, Kabal, Motaro
Dislike: Sindel, Sheeva, Stryker

MK4
Like: Fujin, Kai, Shinnok, Reiko, Tanya
Dislike: Jarek, Quan Chi

MK:DA
Like: Kenshi, Bo Rai Cho, Li Mei, Frost, Drahmin, Nitara, Moloch
Dislike: Blaze, Mokap, Mavado, Hsu Hao

MK:D
Like: Ashrah, Dairou, Havik, Hotaru, Kira, Shujinko, Onaga
Dislike: Kobra, Darrius

MKX
Like: Cassie, Kotal Kahn, Ferra/Torr, D'Vorah, Erron Black, Kung Jin, Takeda
Dislike: Jacqui

I think it's just a matter of resources and technology that help present the MKX characters in a better first impression than the 3d era ones.

Conceptually, I feel the MKX are way less interesting, namely due to their depence on each other and heritage ties with well known kombatants. Kotal is the only exception.

The 3d era characters were better stand alone characters. And were adapted into the story better.

I truly feel it's just a matter when each set of characters were introduced. If you take the concepts of the 3d era characters and have them first appear in this timeline with the design and gameplay caliber of MKX, they would be celebrated.

basically they just have the stigma with being associated with a shitty game, while these new ones don't.

By the nature of the games they're in, we know these characters better already, and the games not even released.

In the old games we only had bios and endings to tell us about characters - now we can tell who Cassie is just from her intro. Plus we get a full story mode to boot.

The characterization of all of them is so much stronger - not because the old characters were bad, necessarily... They just couldn't be shown to their best degree.
If Li Mei showed up now fully fleshed out, plenty would like her.


Plus, the 4-deception era did lose some relevance culturally, so people don't remember those characters as fondly. You'll always look back on the golden age with more affection than the bland years.

I would say that as of right now, I would place this new crop of characters as the best of their kind in the post-Trilogy era... but not by much. I've noticed a common theme when new MK games get introduced and released, and it's basically this:

- 1 character I thoroughly enjoy.
- 2 or 3 characters who, while flawed, are worthwhile and I'm happy they exist.
- The rest range from meh to a strong disliking.

It's held true for me throughout. In MK4, I really liked Kai. I thought he had cool tattoos, I liked his fatalities, and I really dug his story. The whole self-enlightenment quest trope is one I can usually get behind, and I believe it worked with Kai. It was a good way to write a one-off (until MKA) character. There were a few characters who did nothing for me, like Tanya, Jarek, and to a lesser extent Quan Chi, but I was alright with Fujin, Shinnok, and Reiko. They were fun characters, story and design flaws aside.

MKDA rolls around, and there's Kenshi. A blind swordsman? Sweet! ... AND he does telekinesis? Sign me up. I also felt that BRC, Mavado, and even Drahmin were pretty good characters (Drahmin only from a design standpoint, though... hated his gameplay). I could probably have done without the others. Li Mei and Hsu Hao just weren't handled well, imo. Frost felt redundant because of Sub-Zero. The story behind it was decent enough, but the logistics were a bit awkward to me. You could tell me that Nitara would never be in another game and I probably wouldn't object.

... then MKD happened. This game had the worst set of newbies, and yet I still say that the roster is better overall than MKDA because of the old school characters who came back. Anyway, my favorite character to come out of this game is Havik by a landslide. It's a shame his first foray into Mortal Kombat came as part of a storyline with three of my least favorite characters to date. Hotaru, Dairou, and Darrius, please stand up. I won't say I'm completely opposed to any of them returning, but it would have to be damn good to get me interested. I definitely was not a fan of Kira or Kobra, either. Ashrah was pretty cool, and for all the hate he gets, I really didn't mind Shujinko.

Fast forward to MKX. I'm really excited for Kotal Kahn. I'm absolutely looking forward to trying him out. Erron Black moved towards that territory as well, but I still don't feel like I know enough about him yet to judge. I find that Takeda and Kung Jin are pretty likable, too, even though I worry that they'll be a bit buried in the storyline by others. D'Vorah has a nice enough concept, and she's certainly unique in the MK universe. Cassie has already fallen flat to me. I don't see much to differentiate her from her parents, and her gunplay screams Stryker. I don't know much about Jacqui, but I'm going to make an educated guess and say that she won't be anything to write home about, either. Finally, I've never been interested in Ferra/Torr. I've seen that archetype before and it isn't one I've typically enjoyed, so I'm unimpressed.

Overall, I've found a bit more to like with MKX's new characters than those of the 3D games. This of course could all change once I get my hands on the game, and it probably will; I thought most of the MK4-MKD characters looked solid until I played the games, after all.

TL;DR - Looks can be deceiving.

This is how it always is. In five years everyone will disregard Kung Jin, Jacqui and D'Vorah while begging for Kabal or Smoke to come back

More work was put into them. Also 2D plane helped.

Unique, better story, better presentation though I couldn't care less for Takeda & Cassie. While the whips are cool, that skeleton mask, his voice and star wars swords are just killing his character. Cassie is just lame, awful look and two jokers + Sonya being in makes her annoying already. Jacqui remains to be seen, but other than the flamethrowers, I don't see the appeal. The other 5 are simply awesome:

* Ferra / Torr is unique, never been done, big monster with a little helper is cool in itself
* Kung Jin has some awesome moves, a nice design and great weapons
* Kotal Kahn is a character we've been waiting for for years + a Kahn who's actually fun to play with and not cheesy like Shao
* Erron Black is an outlaw cowboy, come on, how can you not find that cool
* D'vorah is finally a new animal inspired character with very unique skills

Definitely up there, only behind MK2 imo (Baraka, Jax, Kung Lao, Kintaro, Shao Kahn, Noob, Smoke). If I count Tremor and Predator, I might even lean towards best newcomers ever.

Honestly I do not have any prejudice or hatred towards any Mk character unlike some people around here but there are always some characters who shines bright at the very beginning of MK like Sub-zero and there are some characters whom are not be loved like the others . Nobody has to like every character but I think everyone should respect the art of the creators as well

Many of the 3D era characters weren't even real characters.

A good chunk of them were either last minute replacement additions or were originally only alt costumes for other, previously established characters.

When you make characters at the drop of a whim like that they are destined to be ill-conceived and not terribly well respected.

Its not just casuals who aren't huge on the MK4-MKA characters. I have been a die hard fan pretty much my whole life and spent a lot of time with every single game (Except Special Forces, that was a one time play through) and im not big on a lot of the newer characters introduced in MK4 on onward. There is handful of them I like (Shinnok, Reiko, Havik, Fujin, Drahmin, Kenshi, Onaga) but there are just as many I don't like and don't care to ever see again (dairou, darrius, Hotaru, Hsu Hao, Mavado, Jarek, Kobra, Kira)

I don't have a problem with the number of newbies, I believe is necessary if NRS is planning a new gen for MK. The hype might be overrating some, but they will have their chance to prove their worth once the games comes out. I do however have a problem with the selection of returnees, I don't think people would complain so much if they feel the roster majorly skipped everything after MK2. Quan-chi and Kenshi were no surprises and Shinnok seems to have been forcefully added for story needs. We have characters that were alive and kicking after MK9's ending (Baraka, Cyrax, Sektor) and dead ones that could very well sat one out for a game, the revived characters didn't include even one MK3 character.

The comic is awesome, but it actually accentuated the glaring omissions in the roster, presenting Havik, Fujin, Frost, Rain and Reiko with an active role in the story made people wonder: why the hell couldn't they be playable this time around?

Was expecting MK characters that weren't playable in MK9 (especially after half the roster died) that crazy?