I kinda liked his ending in MKA. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if that ending is canon. Due to this, I say he should stay. He could end up being interesting.

Noob actually did have an MK3-era ending in Trilogy:
At first a passive observer, Noob Saibot would soon receive orders to side with the evil emperor Shao Kahn. Saibot's leaders in the Netherealm want him to join Kahn's battle to gain his trust and to gain entrance into the Earth Realm. When Kahn drops his guard, Noob Saibot is ordered to attack. With both the Earth realm and the Outworld's emperor defeated, the fallen Elder God known as Shinnok can take both realms and gain the power he needs to strike back at the Elder Gods who banished him into the Netherealm.

Anyway, I'm kind of torn on whether Noob Saibot should return. The revelation that he was the elder Sub-Zero from MK1 was a nice twist, and I like that he's stepping up and trying to rule the Netherealm...which BTW, they shold continue with if he comes back. Definitely do not want to see him become a henchman again.
However, I only want Noob back if...and only if....they don't pursue a rivalry with Sub-Zero. The Noob/Sub-Zero is boring, predictable, adds nothing to either character, and is really just a waste of both their time.

Sub-Zero is at a point in his story where he should be moving up. Having him try to "save" his brother, but ultimately confronting him...which is no doubt what will happen...is a detour from where his character should be headed. He should be dealing with new threats, enemies that reveal something new about him or challenge him in a different way, and probably move on to main event level stories. Fighting with Noob Saibot is just Subz fighting ghosts from his past, and he should be beyond fighting ghosts from his past now.

If they bring Noob Saibot back, the characters that end up having to deal with him should be either Scorpion or Sareena or both.

Now Scorpion....let me first point out that any rivalry between these two should not...repeat: NOT....be based on revenge. No one wants to see Scorpion simply go "Grrrr, I still hate you for killing me! Die again!" and Noob to go "You killed me, now I hate you! Grrrr!"
Noob Saibot should be the one to make the first move...forcing Scorpion to respond. But I don't believe Noob does feel a grudge against Scorpion. Since he's proud of what he is, he might even feel a little grateful. He could seek an alliance with Scoprion; suggesting "We are the same. We should be working together."

Now Scorpion, upon learning on Noob's true identity, could reflect on the consequences of his actions. Perhaps a little tempted to join Noob, but realizing that his blind, selfish revenge created an great evil, and just disgusted with what his former rival had allowed himself to become, he'd concentrate on destroying Noob Saibot.
And this helps Scorpion by having him finally grow up a little bit by taking responsibility for his actions and move on from the endless revenge shit.

Scorpion against Noob works better than Sub-Zero against Noob because they are two sides of the same coin. Both were manipulated by Quan Chi and killed. Both were used as his servants or weapons. But while Scorpion retained his free will and struggled to hold onto his honor, Noob Saibot lost his and became a pure evil wraith. Everything Scorpion does is for his family, but as seen in Deception, Noob no longer cares about his family. The original Sub-Zero created Scorpion. Scorpion created Noob Saibot. And in the end, it came back down to Scorpion and the original Sub-Zero.
It all comes full circle.

As for Sareena...
Let's say in the next game we continue with Sareena trying to help Sub-Zero to earn his trust...or maybe she's simply trying to find some means of purifying herself. Then she stumbles stumble across Noob's ambitions which could involve conquering and maybe assassinating Sub-Zero. But since Subz would be occupied with more important things, she decides she has to be the one to stop it.
But this becomes complicated when she learns Noob Saibot is actually the Sub-Zero she met years before in the Netherealm. Maybe she doesn't even stumble across his plans, maybe he comes to her, and tries to sway her to his side...using her alliance with his brother as an advantage.

So you've got Sareena stuck, not only the question of can she stop Noob Saibot from what he's planning, but how does she deal with the revelation that he is...or was...the man she may have had some feelings for. Further, suppose she's forced to kill Noob, then she'd have to worry about how Sub-Zero will respond when he learns she killed his brother. And finally, if Noob appeals to her darker, Demonic side, that's another conflict she'd have to overcome as she tries to stop him.
And maybe this can lead to interaction between Sareena and Scorpion, which could be cool.

By the way, I do want to make a small point about the Sareena/Noob thing. Most people expect the slight suggested "romance" between Sareena and the elder Subz to be a huge factor, but I don't see it being nearly as major. For one thing, whatever feelings Sareena had...they were for SUB-ZERO, the man who defied her masters and could've helped her.....NOT Noob Saibot, the pure evil, emotionless wraith who was Quan Chi & Shinnok's slave. On that subject, Noob is indeed pure evil and void of emotion. I don't see him harboring many romantic feelings for Sareena.
I only mention that because when I see people discuss the potential rivalry between Noob & Sub-Zero, everyone looks to Sareena as this X factor who's hopelessly in love with Noob Saibot or Sub-Zero and that will be what sways her to either side. It's a minor factor, but really not that deep.

As for appearances, I always liked Noob's theme. It's simplistic, but I liked the idea of his being a "living shadow." But if they run with the Ruler of the Netherealm thing, he should adopt a more imposing and authorative look. Less ninja and more...I don't know. Something big and scary...like the Witch King of Angmar or something.
But he should, however, always retain a faceless appearance. Whether it's a mask or he's just shrouded in shadow, we should never see Noob with human features...like his Deception primary. Because then he doesn't look like Noob Saibot anymore...just some S&M gimp.

He really needs better special moves though. I don't think the ninja stars suit him. When I imagine a wraith, I think of....wraith-like powers. I liked the Ghost Fireball and Shadow Throw from Trilogy. They should bring those back and think of some new stuff...because Noob's special moves sucked in Deception/Armageddon.


But anyway, whether he should stay or go...I'm definitely open to his coming back. But like I said, I ONLY want him back if they don't tie him to Sub-Zero. And unfortunately, I really don't see that happening....which is why, I'm going to vote GO. But, if they were to focus him on Scorpion and/or Sareena and allow Sub-Zero to do what he should be doing in the story (as well as give Noob better moves), then I'd welcome him back.

But the love of God, do not....DO NOT...make him Sub-Zero again....or even a fucking hybrid. It baffles me that there are people who actually want to see Noob Saibot become Sub-Zero or even half Sub-Zero.
"But he'll have shadow-ice powers! Doesn't that sound cool?"
No it doesn't. I don't even know what fuck "shadow-ice" powers are supposed to be. We already have a Sub-Zero, and I'm quite happy with him. If we need another character with ice power, hey we still got Frost. This is even worse than demanding Reptile become human again or Raiden go back to "light."

The older Sub-Zero gone. He's Noob Saibot now. LEAVE IT THAT WAY!

I'd love to see Noob Saibot come back more evil and pissed off than ever. Here's a great warrior character, and needs to stay that way. I say stay.

I liked Nitara, but I never really felt she fit in with the rest of the MK universe, which is largely oriental/fantasy based. She has a cool story, don't get me wrong, but I really don't see the team doing much with it. I could be wrong, and a game focusing on her realm might be kind of cool, but right now I just feel she detracts from the overall feel for the rest of the game.
My verdict: GONE

I like this character. A lot. I remember my reaction of shock when I first found out he was/is Sub Zero's brother for the first time when beating MKD. I certainly think the rivalry can be developed further, and get extremely messy with the family ties there. So far, he has a pretty generic goal of taking over the Netherealm, but I can see him having much larger and much more personal ambitions in mind, and I would love to see what those are in the future.
As far as redemtion goes, it may be possible, but highly unlikely. Even in MKM:SZ Raiden hinted at the darkness in his soul. He didn't seem pleased about it, but at the same time he didn't seem to want to do much to change it. I'm not sure about the story as I am a little rusty, but I wonder if Sareena knows if that is the same person that tried to come to her rescue so many years ago. If she doesn't, what would she do if she found out? Would she care? Does Noob even recognize her at all? A tension there would be interesting.
For a character that started off as just a simple black palette swap with backwards names, he certainly became a much deeper character than a lot of others that have come and gone.
My verdict: STAY

Noob...

I loved his plot revealing that he was the original Sub Zero. To me, that's one of the biggest plot reveals in MK of all time. It's right up there with Liu Kang's death in the opening of MK:DA.

My biggest thing with him is that he has SO MUCH potential. There are so many other characters that he can have a story with. Sub Zero (and no, I don't think a feud between the two would be boring, but I would agree that they had their confrontation in Deception, so I'm fine leaving it at that), Scorpion, Sareena, Quan Chi, Shinnok, the Lin Kuei in general... the list goes on.

My biggest gripe with Noob is his look. His MK4 look with the hoodie or whatever was stupid, even if I totally dug him using a sickle cane. His looks in MK:D were rather ho-hum, as he was just a ninja with black and a ninja completely covered in black.

To me, there's more that can be done with him, even if I'm not entirely sure myself what that look should be. Oh, and as others have said, never pair him with smoke and make him a dual character again. It was a decent idea, but to me, that's something you do when you introduce a new character, not when you're bringing back two established characters.

So yeah, he's sort of the character that's always in the background and he's insertable in to several plots. I'm all in favor of a universal donor character like him.

VERDICT: STAY

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gone: 27, saved: 15

Saved thus far: Baraka, Drahmin, Ermac, Fujin, Hotaru, Kabal, Kai, Kano, Kenshi, Kira, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Nitara and Noob.

I wouldn't want MK completely rip off Dracula, a Buffy villain (awesome show) or Underworld, but to me, those characters had a defined look to them. Nitara had a head band, a bikini and wings. It doesn't exactly scream "unique" itself.

She almost but not quite had a sort of gypsy look to her. I think that could be played up a bit more, but for God's sake, ditch those stupid wings! Either let her fold them down like a cape (ala Gargoyles, another awesome show!) or just ditch them entirely and give her some sort of black shadow wings that pop out from her back whenever she rush/retreats backwards or flies briefly etc.

First of all, if he ever appears again, please make the announcer say his full name (Noob Saibot), not just Noob- that was ugly. "Noob Saibot" sounds so cool, "Noob" does not.

Anyway, I want Noob Saibot back and I want to see at least some confrontation with Sub-Zero. Why? Well, I myself have an older brother and if I knew something was wrong with him there's no way I'd be able to simply ignore that. It's my brother, it's a very special person to me, one that I grew up with, shared laughter and pissed off parents with. Sure, not all brothers are "good brothers", but even then, I don't think you can just ignore the blood bond. What I'm trying to say is that Sub-Zero and Noob Saibot don't have to be exclusively focused on each other, there are other things for them to do, but it'd be a shame for me if they totally ignored each other. I especially feel Sub-Zero would be the one to look for Noob Saibot, rather then the other way around. More info about their past and childhood would be nice too.

As for the whole "maybe there was some romance once" thing with Sareena, I don't care. I think it should be left in the past, as back then he was a different character. And yes, DON'T EVER CHANGE HIM BACK to Sub-Zero again or even worse, make a shadow/ice hybrid- that's bad!

As for Saibot's looks, I like his MKA primary and I agree it's better when no skin is seen on his body.

His specials have always been fun to me, even the stars in Armageddon (loved the sound they made) which could be used in the middle of the combo, unlike most of the other projectiles.

So yeah, Noob Saibot STAYS.

... ... ...

My verdicts so far:

STAY: 22

GONE: 20

I say STAY to Noob.

But not right away. I acknowledge there's still a lot you could do with him, but I'm burned out on him and it'd be good to have him sidelined for a game or two so that the next game he shows up in, it'll be a surprise since that's what he's best at. Surprises and being a hidden character.

I also agree he should never EVER regress back to being a Sub-Zero or any kind of Sub/Noob combination. He's perfect as is right now.

Noob Saibot is cool. STAY.

Noob is a big time fan favorite and is becoming an icon in his own right...like it or not. i agree with icebaby that he needs to look more of a shadow and i also agree he could use some improvements with moves...using ice maybe but like its been said "do not make him sub-zero again". I agree completely agree on that. otherwise it is an obvious stay. i think people would be upset if he did not make the roster actually...if he does not he should be a definite for DLC atleast.

Good ideas from all around on what could be done with Noob in the future. I say STAY. Guy's got more than enough potential to go around.

Noob should stay, but he should be retired down the line.

Noob Saibot is an awesome character and the fact that he is the original Sub-Zero is just awesome. I disagree with Xiahou Dun in leaving Sub-Zero to other things besides his brother because there is so much potential there. Sub-Zero has been hinted in Deception as growing incredibly powerful as he stirred up alot of commotion in Outworld when killing an entire platoon of Tarkata by himself, then being hunted by Hotaru and his life being saved by Kenshi who killed Hotaru.

If I were Noob Saibot and I was a wraith who was corrupted with power I would find my only ties to my humanity as a weakness, therefore Sub-Zero must be killed, now this can tie into basically the whole central plot of the next Mortal Kombat. Sub-Zero is now the most deadliest mortal to the main villains since Liu Kang's death and Sub-Zero is not as noble as the Shaolin champ. If I were Quan Chi and saw this and knowing I did not have control of Noob Saibot anymore I would lure either Sub to Noob or Noob to Sub it makes no difference one of them must die and whoever survives I'd kill them myself.

Sareena is tied into this story as she seeks refuge with the Lin Kuei from the likes of Quan Chi and Shinnok which can lead to an epic confrontation Shakesperian style. Noob is using Sub's former ally against him Smoke who's humanity can possibly start resurfacing again when being in the presense of the Lin Kuei.

But what I think would be so awesome is that when things are looking so bad for Sub the infamous wild card will arrive, Scorpion. I think it would be a battle between Sub and Scorp over the fate of Noob Saibot, Sub of course would like the chance to bring back Noob's humanity and thinking their is a chance, and Scorpion to find peace in his soul must rid the world of his creation and himself. It would be a dramatic bloody clash of all these different characters who will manipulate, betray, and form alliances with each other. Sub-Zero will represent the hope that good can come out of the most evil places and Scorpion will represent that one must deal with their past before moving forward and Noob Saibot will be the key to all of this.

Sub-Zero

The resolution of the Noob-Smoke vs. Sub-Zero conflict was one of the things I was so hyped up over for MKA....and they had Taven come along and whip both Noob and Smoke's asses. Biggest goddamn failure that game made plotwise.

So now Sub's working on restoring his soul. I think most people would prefer that it doesn't work - having him go back to being Sub-Zero would be ridiculous. He's better the way he is, and while I'd love to see Smoke get his soul back, I don't think Noob would benefit from being saved. He was never entirely a good guy to start with. As I'll elaborate on when I get to Sub-Zero, I think it time for that character to pass the mantle on to a worthy successor, and I'd be intrigued by the prospect of Sub-Zero embarking on one last attempt to save his brother's soul - or stop him altogether, only to be killed by him. Not saying I dislike Sub or anything, but if the two HAVE to have a death match, I'd prefer Noob come out on top.

He's made strides since his transformation; I love the fact that he's whipped up his own Brotherhood of Shadow, and I'd like him to gain control of the Netherealm. I've said elsewhere that not many people would mind if Shinnok were to get killed off and never return; what I'd like is to see a struggle to fill that power vacuum between Noob, with his new Brotherhood of Shadow, and Scorpion with his freshly-undead Shirai Ryu. That would be a satisfying depiction of the full-circle notion, to me.

I don't think his old tie to Sareena needs to be brought up; there's no evidence to suggest that she even knew it was the guy who'd once spared her life that she helped Sub-Zero stave off (according to her MKA bio). She appears to be mixed up with Quan Chi for now, anyway. But if they do, I wouldn't mind her coming to the realization that while she may not be good-natured, she could easily serve someone more deserving. She'd be a great ally.

Should his humanity be restored, I also can't imagine that Smoke would be too happy to have been used that way - another thread that could be picked up on. Maybe he could spy on Noob on Sub's behalf with intentions of his own...but I'll get to that later.

And I concur with almost everything said gameplay-wise: Call him Noob Saibot, damn it. I don't want the floodgates opened to more ridiculous internet jokes like him having a "Troll Hammer". I mean, really?

Definitely needs his shadow-based moves back. While the shuriken don't suit him much, I'd prefer something new and shadow-based over the monument to evil that was his Block Disabler. Never was a single move so abusable.

Bottom line, there's WAY too many places for Noob to go to for him NOT tocome back. We're waiting.

Verdict: STAY.

That's the whole point, man. She doesn't know yet.

What WOULD Sareena do if she found out the man she admired for his free will and refusal to bow to Quan Chi, who inspired her to turn against Chi and escape the Netherealm herself, had been turned into a creature with the exact opposite personality? That's an interesting character thread worth following.

I liked the idea that MKA presented for noob. Becoming something, not a wraith and not lin kuei, but somethin else. I feel having a really dark hybrid would be amazing for him. If he stays as he is, Id like to see him have more than a troll hammer and ninja stars. His moveset has been extremely weak.

Verdict: STAY (But with a little revamp)

As far as his look is concerned, I think I am one of the only ones that prefers his shadow look with no substance to him. I remember in MKT when they first gave him some depth I was kind of disappointed. I liked the flat blackness of the character. To me, it gave him more of a mysterious appeal. I would like to see that return, but with graphical enhancements that would kind of make him appear to leave shadows of himself behind him for a split second after he moves. Not sure how else to describe it other than comparing it to how Alucard moves in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Just sort of giving him a bit of displacement as he moves, so you are never sure exactly where he is. With today's technology, I think Noob Saibot could be given some pretty cool effects as a shadow-being.

Yeah, it's strange when you think about it, but Noob has been in MK2, the MK3 series, MK4, MK:D and MKA. Basically, the only game he really sat out of since he first showed up all the way back in the 2nd game was MK:DA.

Not many characters can make that claim.

So I totally get how you could be burned out on him. That makes perfect sense to me. I think at this point though, I almost see him as the type of character that should always be there, just not always in the forefront as a selectable character.

Maybe have a game where he goes back to being a hidden, unselectable character. Maybe you get some sliver of reference to him in the next game through someone elses ending or bio or something along those lines, but then he comes back as his own, selectable character in the following game to sort of connect to that reference.

To me, he's sort of the "staple" hidden character in MK. Not a symbol of the series like Sub Zero and Scorpion might be, but (and maybe this is just for me) he's sort of the symbol of the secrets that can be found in an MK game. If that makes any sense. Reptile could've been that character, but putting him on the select screen in MK2, UMK3, MK4 and MK:DA kind of did away with that for me.

Anyways, I understand what you're saying, but I think I'd rather just see him fall back to the background for a game or two, rather than disappear entirely.

I'm still not convinced anything worth-while will come out of pursuing a Sub-Zero/Noob Saibot feud. If they were going to do, they should've struck while the iron was hot after Deception. And they kinda-sorta did. But now it's after Armageddon...move on.

I just don't buy Sub-Zero feeling the need to make amends with his past via saving his brother. Mainly because....Sub-Zero made amends with his past back in MK4. You know, wearing the uniform of his brother, joining the fight against Shinnok, confronting Quan Chi, and settling his issues with Scorpion.
He's moved on.

Like I said, I think Sub-Zero is at a point where he should be moving up. If he's to have a secondary feud with someone, it should be Sektor or Hotaru. Or maybe even someone brand new. No more being haunted by ghosts from his past. And not even just Noob Saibot....as has been suggested, where could an issue with Noob lead..? BACK to Scorpion...ugh.
I want to see someone who'll challenge Sub-Zero in a new way. If they bring Sektor back, I'd like them to acknowledge he represents Subz' potential for evil. Or play up how Hotaru can represent conformity against Sub-Zero's individualism...because one of the big things about Sub-Zero's story has been how he's surpassed his brother and forefathers and become his own man.
Pitting him against Noob Saibot just lumps him back into family issues and all it reveals about him is that he (typically) hopes that even a seemingly pure evil being can be redeemed. Bleh.

Which is another thing, I really have a problem with Sub-Zero being presented as this wishy-washy child hoping against hope his brother can be saved. I prefer to think of Sub-Zero as stronger willed than that.
Not to mention...a sibling rivalry where one hopes the evil one can be reformed..? Didn't Kitana & Mileena do that? And didn't that resonate more because Kitana was an evil person who turned good and Mileena represents the evil in her in physical form?
Oh yeah...Raiden's also going batshi nowt. Won't the good guys....like, for example, his "brother" Fujin....be struggling and hoping against hope he can be saved and brought back? And won't that resonate more because Raiden's been so established as the good and benevolent leader...so his corruption would be a tragic loss?
It's not so much a matter of it's been done....it's being done better.

Also, if we have Noob target Sub-Zero because he fears ties to his previous life...why's he only attacking now? Why not go after Subz during MK2? Or MK3? MK4? Deadly Alliance? He didn't even go after Sub-Zero in Deception...Sub-Zero stumbled onto him (for some reason). Why attack the Lin Kuei in Armageddon? Because Quan Chi told him to.
I don't know, just seems to me Noob Saibot isn't that concerned about past ties to his humanity. I think his humanity is long gone.

Now of course, the question to be raised is: if Noob comes back, how/why is Sub-Zero NOT trying to find him. I'll grant, it would be rather odd of Sub-Zero to completely disregard his brother's presence if he knows he's around.
Key thing: IF he know. Say after Armageddon, Noob disappears and Sub-Zero assumes him to be dead along with the numerous other casualties during the battle. But, Noob actually isn't dead, he's just retreated back to the Netherealm to gather his strength and make his plan.
And thus...we go back to my earlier suggestion where maybe Sareena simply stumbles onto Noob's ambitions and since Sub-Zero should be off doing other things, she ends up being the one that has to take of it. And Scorpion....well, I don't know how he finds out who Noob is and what he's up to, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure something out.

And you know what, this can actually play into Razors suggestion of keeping Noob around...but not bring him back right away...which I wouldn't mind.

Speaking of Sareena....and I say this from a more mercenary perspective...another reason I really don't what the focus to be Noob Saibot vs. Sub-Zero is because I know...I just know...if they go down that road, and thus play Sareena as stuck in the middle.....where do you think she's going to end up?
I've waited too long for her and she has too much potential just to get Gwen Stacied in a lackluster rivalry that only really "needs" to happen out of sense of plot obligation.

Noob: Once they introduced Noob I was getting tired of so many ninjas, and to me he isn't that cool looking or interesting. He is just all black. That's it. I don't see how that is so cool. There is also something about him being the original Sub-zero but he came back as Noob. I don't know and I never really cared. I always saw him as a quckly rushed character. Reancactment: "We need another ninjas!" "What color should he be?" "I know make him completely black. Yeah that's different." "Ok. What about the name." "I know just Boon and Tobias backwards. Noob Saibot. There is our last character for UMK3. Good work team." It may sound like I hate him, but really I just think there are more interesting characters and ninjas for that matter.

Verdict: Never knew much about him, and I have no interest. Gone.

Not saying it's not a good plot thread to follow up; it is, just not in Noob's main plot. I should clarify, as I wasn't too lucid while typing last night. I think Noob's got quite a bit on his plate already without pulling Sareena back into his main plot. Should this occur, I'd prefer it be a tale told from her POV - while Noob's off building a power base in his own plot, she discovers his identity in her own - kind of like how Sub-Zero's main plot in MKD didn't involve Noob and Smoke at all - things only went down in their ending. I'd save this for the Sareena portion of this thread (this is why I didn't elaborate about Smoke earlier). I think Saibot should focus on his play for power.

BTW, was there really a romantic attraction on her behalf? Trying to remember my MKM, and all I recall is that she wanted him to help her escape the Netherealm.

...except Noob Saibot first appeared in MK2.


Nothing overt. It's just in the way she acts around him. Kind of.

agree completely with jb, noob is such a sucky character, no offense to his fans but I don't understand what the fucking big deal's about him. So now we know he's the Sub-Zero in MK1, great, now what? Frankly, I think that is too convenient a plot twist IMO. We already have the "lost his humanity" angle with Sektor, why do we need another character with this gimmick?

Verdict: go

Fair enough. I would agree, in fact. It's just that the way you said it the first time made it sound like it wasn't worth delving into at all.