Gone.

I don't even consider him canon.

Hell no

He doesn't even deserve to be debated

no, a gimmick fighter.

i'd like to see chameleon return if we get more info about his race and his connection to reptile. plus his look was cool in mka which i wouldn't change.
but i would say if he returns he needs a new moveset instead of mimicing other fighters specials.

maybe have his fatalitys be 1 button presses that steal say sub - zeros spine rip and scorpions toasty. it would randomly give you a fatality from any of the characters that appeared in the game.

new moves chameleon could have are - acidic wave, crawling dash, tongue attack, jump and bite, and camo.

I'm actually going to go against the grain here and say yes. He's the perfect fusion character.

Don't get me wrong: I still think the very notion of Noob-Smoke is completely and morally offensive. Those characters needed their own slot. But Chameleon has no story value, and truthfully, he has so much design potential. I say fuse him with another bonus character (Zebron, motherfucker!), and we have something really cool.

Again, he shouldn't take up a whole character slot, but I vote yes.


Gracias. Let's hope our votes count in the long run.

Blaze: He was a lame Human Torch rip off, that became a lame magma monster cliche. I won't mind it one bit to see him leave.

Chameleon: S/he seems like a mix of Reptile from the games, mixed with the Reptile from the movie. Either why s/he needs to leave and never come back. We already have too many ninjas, and s/he is just a rip off of one of them.

Good-bye Chameleon. However, I'd keep Khameleon (female) because her story can get more interesting especially with Reptile.

Bo' Rai Cho
This thread has made me appreciate Bo' Rai Cho even more for some reason. I think a lot of it is due to the unanswered questions I have about him. Why did he want to help Earthrealm in the first place? Just what does he see in Li Mei? Is there a father/daughter thing there? Does Li Mei perhaps have feelings of transference for Bo' Rai Cho? How does Master Cho feel about his "failures" in Liu Kang and Kung Lao (both characters falling to Shang Tsung and Quan Chi)?

I agree that the farting would need to go, and that he would need to be taken more seriously (leave the humour for the sunniness of his personality), but I feel big BRC could still offer a lot to the series. More so than most other characters, anyway. There is a lot he could also give the series by dying, but I feel that there are enough questions about him to push him forward.

Chameleon
Everyone else except Chameleon wins. Fatality.

cat grass demon yellow salt melon fire.

If you couldn't make sense of that, it's because it didn't make sense. There wasn't any structure or logic behind what I said. I appreciate that you hold your thoughts in high regard, and you like your own ideas, and maybe some like-minded people would, too. But Razor and baraka are right. There needs to be structure and logic not only behind actually sentence structure, but behind actual creative ideas themselves.

Writing is an art, and like any art, it does require a natural talent to fuel it forward. Throwing random ideas at paper might work in school, to entertain your friends or even in Hollywood blockbusters (HEYYOOO!!!), but what Razor essentially said was that there are rules behind writing -- because there are. These can be for things like marketability, and to limit redundancy.

If you want to make money with writing, you can't just put crap on paper. The easiest way to do it is to follow a structure, or formula. Now, I'm can't remember what you actually originally suggested for Baraka, I think it was -- so I'm not saying that your idea is crap. I'm just saying that it's naive to believe it comes down to a matter of creative opinion. The sad truth is, some opinions are better formulated, have evidence behind them, and have logic and structure applied. These will tend to have more weight than someone who just yells out "purple moth fire!"

I'd love to see Chameleon return, but I'm of the mind that he doesn't need any kind of story. He's not a character, he's a concept. "What if we put all of the ninja's powers in one guy?" That's what he is and that's all you need. Best case scenario, he'd be a reward for completing some aspect of the game. Perhaps collecting all Achievements or Trophies.

your doing it too now!! this time instead of dissecting my ideas your dissecting my argument. and in some sense of imagination...cat grass demon yellow salt melon fire could being explanatory of a type of fire. there may not be such a type of fire but it can be made to exist in a story.

i give up with this forum lol. think i will just not post anything and just follow news like a good fan should. my opinion has no matter anyway.

yep...im that serious...good bye MKO.

Oh come on, your opinion matters just as much as anyone else's here. Which is to say not at all, but at least were all on even ground.

How about, let's all stop arguing and get back on topic please. Can you please evaluate more on why you want Chameleon gone.

Sorry, You-Know-Who but have you ever read post modern poetry? You know... Art?

"How do you see me with your green flowery eye socket receptors?"

That's from "Howl," one of the most highly regarded and well known poems of the beat generation by Alan Ginsberg.

So yeah, somewhere, "cat grass demon yellow salt melon fire" might have meaning and might be liked by people that hear it and put the sounds of the words with the images together.

There aren't "rules" to good writing as far as creativity is concerned. You can like an idea or dislike it, but disliking it doesn't lessen the validity of an idea in terms of it's right to exist.

Now yes, if you're talkinga about marketability, then absolutely, there are preestablished formulas. You want to write a thriller novel? There are several plotlines and cliched twists etc that are at your disposal.

You want to write a pop song? Take a look at the 25,000 pop songs that came before yours. It's not hard. Talk about love in it and you're aces.

But if you're talking about art, about real art and creativity and imagination... Those don't have to adhere to what some suit or even what common society thinks is "good" or "art."

Wait... What were we talking about? Oh yeah, Chameleon. I didn't like the whole idea of having a character that just took moves from other characters. I don't like that Kira had Kano's cannonball, which was a signature move for him and then she took Sonya's kiss. Lame.

All characters should only have their own special moves and not get any from anyone else. So yeah, that's why Chameleon is a big G-O-N-E in my book. But I already gave my response.

Who's next Icebaby??

I seriously almost spat the water I was drinking all over my computer screen when I read that.

Priceless!

Thanks Temp!

Icebaby, I knew that you were going in alphabetical order, I just wasn't sure who was next. Sooo... Cyrax, eh?

I actually kind of like Icebaby's idea of ditching the cybernetic armor. Maybe have him look more human, but still having some machine parts like an arm or maybe half his head looks robotic after a fight ala Terminator.

As for his moves, I was never a fan of the bombs. Once you saw the double bomb a few times, it sort of became boring. The net? I liked it, even if the move itself looked kinda ridiculous. Maybe if they give it back to him, he just captures an opponent and they're stuck in it until he hits them. No more of the wacky net flying across the screen with someone flailing around in it.

Other than that, I think that being at least part machine should give him a ton of potential for moves. I'm thinking Boba Fett style fire, or that wire thingy (I know, very descriptive). My point is that his move arsenal should be one of the best in MK and it's not right now, but could be in the future.

His story? Eh... I'm not a fan. I like that he went good. I have no problem with that. But he's just (and this is one of MK's biggest story problems) really a lackey for the Special Forces. You know, just another member of the group. He needs a WAY better story than that.

A feud with Sektor? That has potential. I'm just not sure that I want to see two robots in MK again. Too many bad memories of MK3.

VERDICT: GONE (not forever, but I don't need to see him for a while)

I'm a big fan of Cyrax. Wish they'd never took away the net, it hurt his popularity a lot, I suspect.

Storywise, I think he'd have a bright future if they stick to his OIA field agent role. It really works well for him.
For instance, what I would do is, since I feel that Sonya and Jax are getting old and have been boring for a few games now, I'd kill Jax off and have Sonya promoted to General or something like that so basically, she's got a desk job staying at the base and giving Cyrax orders over the radio while he does all the grunt work, making him the main character of future Special Forces plots.
Of course, with Sonya's popularity, you can't actually leave her out. She'd still be playable as a hidden character, or say Cyrax gets captured in a game and she has to rescue him, a role reversal from her getting captured and Jax having to rescue her in MK2.

Keep him. How can you not love having a robot in a game centered on magic kung-fu? It's a welcome change of pace.

Care to explain how you reached this conclusion?

I used to like Cyrax a lot more, but he seemed lose something I can't put my finger on. I think it might because, in my eyes, his story is over. He was a soulless cyborg, malfunctioned & got kind of mixed up, and now he has his soul back and he's a good guy. I really don't care for the Special Forces sub-plot and of the cyborgs, I prefer Sektor. If they brought him back, I couldn't really say what would "fix" him in my eyes.

Personally, I think he should just end. He doesn't really need to continue, and I don't think he warrants a new story arc. Cyborgs in general are, for the most, part only accepted grudgingly and if they keep any one around I would run with Sektor. I think maybe Cyrax could get killed by him...assuming they brought him back...thus further establishing him as a more legitimate threat to Sub-Zero or whomever.

I'm not strongly opposed to Cyrax's return, but I going to vote gone.

Keep him because he is one of the few cyborgs MK has.

Cyrax was one of my favorite characters to play as in MK3. I can't believe the MK team kept his bombs but not the net. I always liked pulling his combos off, too, because they were somehow easier than other characters'.

But storywise, I think he's run his course, unless something drastic happens to make him interesting again. The concept of a man trapped inside a cyborg's body, with half his thought process being computer-based, is really compelling, and Cyrax lost that when he regained his full functionality. From here on out, I think Smoke can maybe fill that role if he ever gets free of Noob Saibot. He has much stronger dynamic with Sub-Zero, who I'm sure is still suffering from having a former friend who only fights on his side when specifically programmed to do so.

But, yeah, hero Cyrax makes a nice addition to the Special Forces team, but I don't think he's got a strong enough hook to be a playable character anymore. Give his net to Smoke and Sektor and we're good on our cyborg quota.

I've always said, a humanoid martial arts Zebra is just one step below godhood in my book.


In a few seconds, I'm going to cough. When that happens, it's going to sound lot like "Smoke! Smoke, Damn it," but in fact, I'm just coughing.


I think at one point this was true, especially during the MK4 period, but I think MKDA and MKD polished up the cyborgs enough so they would work outside of the MK3 aesthetic . And speaking seriously, I don't ever want to see Smoke as a cyborg again, at least not in the retro mk3 sense. The nano-nonsense was okay in theory, but in practice it looked awful. I hope they do something with Smoke in the sequels that isn't monumentally retarded... like turning him to a giant nano cloud... assholes.

In regards to Cyrax, I have the same sentinments as Nightwolf: if he's in the game, he needs to do something. His setup is great, but they failed to launch his character in MK:DA.

That said, I have a lot of tolerance for Cyrax that I don't have for Sektor despite that I like the characters equally. Reason being is that Cyrax has solidified as one of the definitive good guys along with Kung Lao, Sonya, and Subzero. Sektor, although an excellent villain, stills seems stuck in subplot hell along with Mavado, Drahmin, etc, and I don't see that changing. If they want to do the Tekunin plotline right, I say they go all the way and turn Sektor into a final boss.

Anyway,I think there's a lot of design potential for Cyrax, so let's see what Boon has in store for him. I would say yes.

Well I think if they keep Smoke around, they should continue to evolve him into a more ethereal form...maybe like a smokey ghost-like phantasm being or somesuch.

In essence, making him cease to be an actual cyborg.