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Mortal Kombat (2011)
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ZeroSymbolic7188
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 •04/13/2011 02:34 AM (UTC) •
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Here's one for ya. A bunch of MEN are arguing over how a WOMAN should be portrayed.

That to me is much bigger statement about society than anything else.
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 02:36 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
"It's so cool and funny to see someone get ripped and half...but this woman twirling on the pole is unacceptable."

This is one of those arguments that I thing *sounds* like it makes sense on some level, but when you break it down, you see it's really apples and oranges.

On one hand, you have people getting ripped it half in media. Let's just abstract that one to violence in media, since getting ripped in half is a relatively uncommon way to go, even in the realm of fiction. tongue

Then you have the countless issues and debates surrounding how women are portrayed in the media.

Debate on each of these topic can (and has) filled libraries and while they do sometimes overlap, I don't see how it's necessarily useful to say "Well, we have violence, so let's not worry about how we portray women." Or vice-versa!

See what I'm getting at?


Well, Mortal Kombat have both people-ripping and sexy women. If you like one thing but don't like the other, well, that sucks for you then.
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Kombat_Vet
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 •04/13/2011 02:37 AM (UTC) •
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I get what you're saying FROST. My original point is that people are very much entitled to feeling as if this game objectifies its female characters. I just think it's ironic that people are choosing to take the moral high ground in regard to a game in which mutilation, murder, and gore are utilized for comedic purposes. I suppose that's why the blatant sexed up women in this game do not bother me. I can keep the game in perspective. I don't think viewing women as sex objects is any more or less okay as finding comedy in murder. But I enjoy the game nonetheless.

I just find the irony amusing.
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*Kano*
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About Me

Fact: Quoting game designers in an attempt to prove or disprove a theory about the future of the MK franchise is a fool's errand. Sometimes what they say on the subject proves to be accurate, other times it does not. Somehow life goes on.

 •04/13/2011 02:38 AM (UTC) •
0
"Here's one for ya. A bunch of MEN are arguing over how a WOMAN should be portrayed."

That's a good thing. Men should have a healthy interest in that particular debate, at least as long as they're the ones shaping many of those portrayals.
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FROST4584
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 •04/13/2011 02:43 AM (UTC) •
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Jaded-Raven Wrote:
FROST4584 Wrote:
Kombat_Vet Wrote:
I think it's a hot pose. MK was built around the idea of NOT being PC. I never understood the outcry for this game to stop being provocative. Provocative is what makes MK MK. It's what made us love this game as kids. It's what made our parents hate this game when we were kids, heh. I love the pose. I hope they continue to push boundaries.

I don't even consider this a blatant sexualized thing. It's more a subtle innuendo than anything else. At least for me.


That’s the thing, these characters were never based on these concepts of the oversexual stuff. We now live in a day in age where you can turn on the TV and now see half naked females. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of not all comic book females are inherently sexy, but they body figure , face, and breast size. Very few of comic book characters dress as little as the females in this game.

I bring up comic books because, Mortal Kombat not only got its start from Chinese/Japanese mythogy, but comic book archetypes. Kitana was based on Psylocke from X-men, her design was sexy because it complemented her, at the same time not taking outfit overboard to a point were her breasts were falling out of dancing on stripper poles. The point I am making more and more characters are so wrong to what they really are. Jade spinning around like that is so out of place, like so many things about this games presentation of long running characters. To the point they aren’t the same characters the MK team claim to be “revisiting”, not even Mortal Kombat at all.

This game seems like a joke on the whole MK mythos that Tobias established so well. Including Jade, who like so many others out of character.


A word of advise then... Don't buy the game. You'd hate it.


I never judged MK overall on just the story. It’s the combination of the game play and storyline, which drew me to Mortal Kombat. I'll getting MK (2011) for the gameplay. The storyline/ characters are a joke, and I have no doubt it going to get far worse. Everything I’ve seen in storyline mode makes no sense at all. Raiden “mental message”, characters appearing in places which contradicted thr who, where, why they came from.

What a way to ruin Tobias’s mythos , by turning itself something to typical of what “modern” entertainment females.
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Garlador
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 •04/13/2011 02:44 AM (UTC) •
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FROST4584 Wrote:
This game seems like a joke on the whole MK mythos that Tobias established so well. Including Jade, who like so many others out of character. Shouldn't MK (2011) represent characters , as they were of the time?


Ha ha ha. Oh, nostalgia. How blind it makes people.

Tobias's storylines were nice, but hardly THAT great. Seriously. Do you want to go back to the Tobias era where Johnny Cage was killed and resurrected every game, where Scorpion was just sort of "there" without any reason, where guys like Jarek were running around, where the rainbow ninjas were running amuck?

Those characters HAD almost no personality. They were generic stand-ins, ciphers for you to project onto, but unable to emote or express anything other than a few endings. Characters were painted in broad strokes, while the later games narrowed all their focuses, honed in on their strengths and weaknesses, and refined and ultimately defined who these characters are.

And the women of MK were super-sexy back then as well. This whole "make them sexy now" thing is misguided since they've always been insanely attractive women in super-skin-tight outfits.
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ZeroSymbolic7188
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 •04/13/2011 02:45 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
"Here's one for ya. A bunch of MEN are arguing over how a WOMAN should be portrayed."

That's a good thing. Men should have a healthy interest in that particular debate, at least as long as they're the ones shaping many of those portrayals.


Thats a pretty good point man, and I agree that women in real life should not be treated or viewed the way this game portrays them, but the fact is that these women are not real. This is a game and in a game we can be over-the-top.
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Kombat_Vet
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 •04/13/2011 02:45 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano*, for me, it's not apples and oranges. It's apples and oranges for you because you don't view violence as more of an epidemic than objectifying women.

This game crosses the line on so many different levels. For you, the woman issue is the deal breaker. But I'm sure there's a mother out there who lost her son due to some form of violence that might not appreciate the way this game utilizes it for entertainment purposes.

I guess my concluding point is that one isn't any more or less "wrong" than the other.
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 02:46 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
"Here's one for ya. A bunch of MEN are arguing over how a WOMAN should be portrayed."

That's a good thing. Men should have a healthy interest in that particular debate, at least as long as they're the ones shaping many of those portrayals.


Are you saying that there's something wrong with the female body? That women should cover themselves up and feel embarassed about their selves? Are you saying that the women who like to show their bodies are sinners and whores and should therefore be stoned to death or be thrown into a bonfire? Are you saying that sex is bad and the devil will take our souls down into Hell forever to be tortured if we like sex?

There's nothing wrong with sexy women in video games who play on their sexuality. Women in the real world do so as well, and they are beautiful and natural creatures... well, except for those whose had any plastic surgery done, of course.
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*Kano*
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About Me

Fact: Quoting game designers in an attempt to prove or disprove a theory about the future of the MK franchise is a fool's errand. Sometimes what they say on the subject proves to be accurate, other times it does not. Somehow life goes on.

 •04/13/2011 02:48 AM (UTC) •
0
"And the women of MK were super-sexy back then as well. This whole 'make them sexy now' thing is misguided since they've always been insanely attractive women in super-skin-tight outfits."

Well, yes. And Jax, Liu Kang, and Johnny Cage all had sexy muscles and even less clothing. But you didn't see them rub themselves down with oil or do Chippendale's dance routines before and after fights, either.
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 02:49 AM (UTC) •
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FROST4584 Wrote:
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
FROST4584 Wrote:
Kombat_Vet Wrote:
I think it's a hot pose. MK was built around the idea of NOT being PC. I never understood the outcry for this game to stop being provocative. Provocative is what makes MK MK. It's what made us love this game as kids. It's what made our parents hate this game when we were kids, heh. I love the pose. I hope they continue to push boundaries.

I don't even consider this a blatant sexualized thing. It's more a subtle innuendo than anything else. At least for me.


That’s the thing, these characters were never based on these concepts of the oversexual stuff. We now live in a day in age where you can turn on the TV and now see half naked females. There is nothing wrong with that. Most of not all comic book females are inherently sexy, but they body figure , face, and breast size. Very few of comic book characters dress as little as the females in this game.

I bring up comic books because, Mortal Kombat not only got its start from Chinese/Japanese mythogy, but comic book archetypes. Kitana was based on Psylocke from X-men, her design was sexy because it complemented her, at the same time not taking outfit overboard to a point were her breasts were falling out of dancing on stripper poles. The point I am making more and more characters are so wrong to what they really are. Jade spinning around like that is so out of place, like so many things about this games presentation of long running characters. To the point they aren’t the same characters the MK team claim to be “revisiting”, not even Mortal Kombat at all.

This game seems like a joke on the whole MK mythos that Tobias established so well. Including Jade, who like so many others out of character.


A word of advise then... Don't buy the game. You'd hate it.


I never judged MK overall on just the story. It’s the combination of the game play and storyline, which drew me to Mortal Kombat. I'll getting MK (2011) for the gameplay. The storyline/ characters are a joke, and I have no doubt it going to get far worse. Everything I’ve seen in storyline mode makes no sense at all. Raiden “mental message”, characters appearing in places which contradicted thr who, where, why they came from.

What a way to ruin Tobias’s mythos , by turning itself something to typical of what “modern” entertainment females.


Yes yes, praise Tobias, for he is a god amongst men and all that crap.
But seriously, you are taking this far too seriously. In the end, it's just a game.

*Kano* Wrote:
"And the women of MK were super-sexy back then as well. This whole 'make them sexy now' thing is misguided since they've always been insanely attractive women in super-skin-tight outfits."

Well, yes. And Jax, Liu Kang, and Johnny Cage all had sexy muscles and even less clothing. But you didn't see them rub themselves down with oil or do Chippendale's dance routines before and after fights, either.


Jade aren't doing those things either.
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ReptileFinally
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 •04/13/2011 02:49 AM (UTC) •
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HOT!!
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ZeroSymbolic7188
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 •04/13/2011 02:50 AM (UTC) •
0
Jaded-Raven Wrote:
*Kano* Wrote:
"Here's one for ya. A bunch of MEN are arguing over how a WOMAN should be portrayed."

That's a good thing. Men should have a healthy interest in that particular debate, at least as long as they're the ones shaping many of those portrayals.


Are you saying that there's something wrong with the female body? That women should cover themselves up and feel embarassed about their selves? Are you saying that the women who like to show their bodies are sinners and whores and should therefore be stoned to death or be thrown into a bonfire? Are you saying that sex is bad and the devil will take our souls down into Hell forever to be tortured if we like sex?

There's nothing wrong with sexy women in video games who play on their sexuality. Women in the real world do so as well, and they are beautiful and natural creatures... well, except for those whose had any plastic surgery done, of course.


I think there has to be a middle ground, and I think mortal kombat has that middle ground. You have sexy characters like Jade and Kitana, but you have female warriors like Sindel and Sheeva (yeah its obviously slanted but the point is that there is representation of both.
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FROST4584
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 •04/13/2011 02:50 AM (UTC) •
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Kombat_Vet Wrote:
I get what you're saying FROST. My original point is that people are very much entitled to feeling as if this game objectifies its female characters. I just think it's ironic that people are choosing to take the moral high ground in regard to a game in which mutilation, murder, and gore are utilized for comedic purposes. I suppose that's why the blatant sexed up women in this game do not bother me. I can keep the game in perspective. I don't think viewing women as sex objects is any more or less okay as finding comedy in murder. But I enjoy the game nonetheless.

I just find the irony amusing.


I'll put it like this, would you like it if someone did a rebooted the original Star Wars films where, princess Leia, is a blonde dizz? Han Solo, a tall roid looking dude? Luke a skinny "nerd" with glasses?

My point is like Star Wars, MK had a unique cast of characters with their stories. Their goals reflected their personalities. Jade was never like this, along with so many others.
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Theonlydairoufan
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 •04/13/2011 02:52 AM (UTC) •
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HENTAI CUMBOT
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*Kano*
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About Me

Fact: Quoting game designers in an attempt to prove or disprove a theory about the future of the MK franchise is a fool's errand. Sometimes what they say on the subject proves to be accurate, other times it does not. Somehow life goes on.

 •04/13/2011 02:53 AM (UTC) •
0
"Are you saying that the women who like to show their bodies are sinners and whores"

Women can have all kinds of motivations for their actions. But we're not talking about real women with minds and motivations of their own. We're talking about portrayals of fictional women, and in this case, ones that seem to be drawing pretty heavily on slut/whore/bimbo stereotypes that are often criticized as quite negative, unfair, and even deplorable. Again, it doesn't make for a good direct comparison.
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nok_su_kow
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 •04/13/2011 02:55 AM (UTC) •
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Theonlydairoufan Wrote:
HENTAI CUMBOT


Possible DLC?
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 02:56 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
"Are you saying that the women who like to show their bodies are sinners and whores"

Women can have all kinds of motivations for their actions. But we're not talking about real women with minds and motivations of their own. We're talking about portrayals of fictional women, and in this case, ones that seem to be drawing on the slut/whore/bimbo archetypes pretty strongly. Again, apples and oranges.


It's not apples and oranges. You want women in videogames to be portrayed in a way that honours real-life women, yes? Or is that not the case? How exactly do you want women in videogames?
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*Kano*
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About Me

Fact: Quoting game designers in an attempt to prove or disprove a theory about the future of the MK franchise is a fool's errand. Sometimes what they say on the subject proves to be accurate, other times it does not. Somehow life goes on.

 •04/13/2011 03:00 AM (UTC) •
0
"Or is that not the case? How exactly do you want women in videogames?"

Good question. I suppose I would answer: I like to see woman characters shown ways that don't depict them in accordance with stereotypes based on their gender that have often been criticized as misogynistic. If that makes any sense.
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 03:01 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
misogynistic


You really like that word. What does it mean?
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Theonlydairoufan
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 •04/13/2011 03:02 AM (UTC) •
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Theres a fine line between partial nudity and mortal kombat hentai
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*Kano*
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About Me

Fact: Quoting game designers in an attempt to prove or disprove a theory about the future of the MK franchise is a fool's errand. Sometimes what they say on the subject proves to be accurate, other times it does not. Somehow life goes on.

 •04/13/2011 03:04 AM (UTC) •
0
It refers to ideas and attitudes about women that are considered hateful, demeaning, unfair, etc. Wikipedia and other sources have much more elaboration on the topic.
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FROST4584
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 •04/13/2011 03:06 AM (UTC) •
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Garlador Wrote:
FROST4584 Wrote:
This game seems like a joke on the whole MK mythos that Tobias established so well. Including Jade, who like so many others out of character. Shouldn't MK (2011) represent characters , as they were of the time?


Ha ha ha. Oh, nostalgia. How blind it makes people.

Tobias's storylines were nice, but hardly THAT great. Seriously. Do you want to go back to the Tobias era where Johnny Cage was killed and resurrected every game, where Scorpion was just sort of "there" without any reason, where guys like Jarek were running around, where the rainbow ninjas were running amuck?

Those characters HAD almost no personality. They were generic stand-ins, ciphers for you to project onto, but unable to emote or express anything other than a few endings. Characters were painted in broad strokes, while the later games narrowed all their focuses, honed in on their strengths and weaknesses, and refined and ultimately defined who these characters are.

And the women of MK were super-sexy back then as well. This whole "make them sexy now" thing is misguided since they've always been insanely attractive women in super-skin-tight outfits.




Cage died only once under Tobias’s run. This isn’t hidden at all under 40 pages of text. The characters back then were defined by their goals. You didn’t need a movie to tell who these people are and what they want, the game told you who they are and what they want. Kitana, Mileena, nor Jade never came off as sexual characters. As I said, you could read and know about a character by reading their bio.

Also, could you please tell me something you didn’t know about a character, before Deadly Alliance, which Vogel took over? I can’t think of anything, since Vogel just gave the characters a new direction. I knew Cage was cocky and eager to prove himself from day one. His bio told you that.

What “later” MK games ” the later games narrowed all their focuses, honed in on their strengths and weaknesses, and refined and ultimately defined who these characters are.”? I don’t recall any of that.

For example, Sub-Zero in MK3 was one of his defining moments in the series. Everything from defying the Lin Kui and searching for his friend says a lot.


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Garlador
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 •04/13/2011 03:06 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
"Are you saying that the women who like to show their bodies are sinners and whores"

Women can have all kinds of motivations for their actions. But we're not talking about real women with minds and motivations of their own. We're talking about portrayals of fictional women, and in this case, ones that seem to be drawing pretty heavily on slut/whore/bimbo stereotypes that are often criticized as quite negative, unfair, and even deplorable. Again, it doesn't make for a good direct comparison.




Does this confuse and offend you?

I shudder to think at what you'll do if you play Duke Nukem's "Capture the Babe" mode which involves spanking some naughty gal's bottom. You'll have a conniption fit.
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Jaded-Raven
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 •04/13/2011 03:07 AM (UTC) •
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*Kano* Wrote:
It refers to ideas and attitudes about women that are considered hateful, demeaning, unfair, etc. Wikipedia and other sources have much more elaboration on the topic.


Uh-huh... and what does it have to do with Jade twirling around a staff?
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