Maybe Outworld is too warm for an undershirt. Or maybe she was trying to look like a slut to blend in to the nightclub where she was trying to catch Kano (in the movie). I really like her new outfit - some of you guys really take things too seriously.

Maybe her alt will be a nun outfit... but I'd make her look like this

If ever I need a dose of disappointment, this thread always seems to do the trick.

"Dignity" is not the word I'd use in this situation, they aren't real people. If anything, I'm more worried about my own "dignity" than the female characters. Any time there is a cash transaction involved, I want to feel like I'm buying a good product I can be happy with. Therefore, when I see something I don't like I am going to complain so perhaps my purchase is a little more satisfying. Not that I base buying this game off what attires the characters are in, but it doesn't mean I want to simply admit defeat (though very tempting at this point honestly) and move on. If I go to a nice restaurant and they prepare my steak to perfection, it doesn't mean I want a dried up lump for my baked potato. It's a side item, but it still has some value by itself and isn't something I would ignore simply because the steak is great.

I've already shared the reasons why I feel the way I do about these costumes, but each time I see someone new in the thread make some awful reference to "nuns" or potato sacks I feel compelled to post. I don't feel the community actively reads the messages posted by other members, at least not in full, and that's a huge problem on a website driven by its forum.

I'm pretty much there now. I'm pretty convinced the MK Team doesn't know what it is doing with its franchise character/story wise. I have been since Shaolin Monks, but never really wanted to admit it. My hopes were raised sky-high when MKD came out. The amount of attention they put into the atmosphere, story, and character development looked like the franchise was heading in the right direction. Then, it all kinda went downhill.

I will say it again. I do not like these new costumes. Yes, I feel they are too revealing. NO, I don't want potato sacks, and if THAT is ALL your collective imaginations can come up with as an alternative then I would suggest that maybe you have some problems seeing female characters any other way than half naked. But MOST important, I feel these costumes (except Mileena, since they turned her into a flirty beast in MKD) do NOT fit the characters or their alignments. And yet again, I have yet to see anyone tell me specifically how these costumes DO fit the characters, All I get is "this is a fantasy game", which somehow trumps character development, or "all fighting girls dress this way", to which I would say we are not talking about all fighting girls, we are talking about these characters and their outfits not fitting their character. Oh and the ever popular "they use sex as a weapon", because we ALL know that has ALWAYS been Sonya's and Kitana's gig as well, and NOT just Mileena's, right? And if the MK team cannot get simple costume designs right for the characters they have devoted so many years into developing, then I hardly think they will get the storline right either. And it's a freaking RE-TELLING for crying out loud. It should NOT be THAT hard to stay true to most of the original MAJOR factors of the story while still changing bits a pieces up to keep it fresh and different, it shouldn't mean that the characters would change so drastically that they are hardly recognizable (I'm looking at you, Nina Williams, and you, blue-clad slave girl Princess Leia).

It seems to me that the MK team really doesn't know what to do with its own characters and story (an embarassing place to be IMO), and is covering that fact up with overly sexually expressive female characters and nearly ALL of its focus on blood and gore, because that must be all that MK fans want anyway, right? The only redeeming factor about this game to me so far is its gameplay, and the jury is still out on that one.

The using sex as a weapon argument bothers me a lot because it not only misses the point of the characters but also misses the point of the phrase itself. When people talk about women using "sex as a weapon" they mean it figuratively. It doesn't mean women will strip down to bra and panties to gain the advantage in a street fight.

Thank you Crow and Skaven13! Two level-headed statements I wholeheartedly agree with!

Ha ha ha.... wow, 28 pages of whining... all because of a little cleavage...

I mean, I'm a passionate Mortal Kombat fan, as loyal and enthusiastic about the series as they come, since the first day I played it in the arcades during the heyday of Genesis blood code goodness. I was one of the people that complained heavily about Sonya's thong and exposed nipples in the past...

... but aren't some people taking this a LITTLE too seriously?

Even IF I agreed they "ruined" Sonya (they didn't) and stripped away her dignity (they didn't) and broke her as a viable gameplay fighter (they most certainly didn't), the fact remains that Sonya ISN'T REAL. She's a fantasy woman in a fantasy game, and honestly she's always been a dream girl for many people. Sonya has ALWAYS been DAMN SEXY in practically every single appearance she's had, always sporting skin-tight clothes, a rocking midriff, busty breasts, and such things as high heels, navel piercings, and nipple pokies in the past. And I'm okay with that. If they wanted a modestly-chested, stern-faced, realistic military girl to be who Sonya represents, they shouldn't have hired a Playboy supermodel to portray her in MK3.

(I may or may not have just wanted an excuse to rave about Kerri Hoskins)

Sonya Blade is the epitome of sexy. She's chesty. She sports tight cleavage and rocks a muscular midriff. She kicks ass in sneakers, high heels, and combat boots. She's got a butt you could bounce a quarter off of and washboard abs that make grown men cry. Is it any wonder one of her finishers is a sexalicious "kiss of death"?

BUT.... Sonya's sex appeal has always been a part of her character. So many people seem to forget it. She's got an extensive past, including a dead brother and a dead partner. She's got an intensive drive for justice. She's stubborn and difficult to work with, even amongst her friends. She trusts few people and always tries to do things by herself. She's sexy, but her attitude towards her own beauty has been a "so what? I'd kick your ass whether I looked good or bad" approach.

Too many people are trying to label her with just one label. "Military chick". "Femme Fatale". "Token Blond." Sonya is a culmination of EVERYTHING, with the exclusion of very little.

Is she a military woman? YES, absolutely. Her behavior is strictly professional. She carries herself like a soldier, is disciplined, patriotic, and respected by her peers. Her outfits have always had a very military olive-green tone, or camo-patterns. Even her new outfit sports a military vest and dogtags.

Is she a talented, athletic fighter? Yes. She's an expert at Tae Kwon Do. Her patented leg grab is hardly military-standard teaching. Neither is her ring-toss, flying kicks, and finisher moves. She's got something special in her that makes her far beyond just a "military girl" or even just a normal fighter. She's got something special, whether it's magic powers or just inherent special abilities. She can scrap against demons, wizards, and gods without the need for a gun or grenades (suck it, Stryker), and she has always been one of the "chosen" souls of Mortal Kombat... for a reason.

Is she a beautiful, gorgeous woman? Yes. And to me she doesn't care one way or the other. She'll go into battle wearing a military uniform from head to toe (like MK:DA's alt) or in skin tight spandex (MK1-MK3) or tank tops and thongs or an open combat vest. She's not entering the fight to "look good". She just wants to get the job done and knows she's coming out of the brawl covered in bruises, cuts, blood, and her outfit ripped up and shredded. Which is fine, so long as her opponent is bloodier and more broken by the end. Her beauty is something natural to her, and while fanboys may ogle her chest, and detractors may lament her thong and ample bosoms, she is what she is... and I think if she could speak on the matter, she'd just roll her eyes and go "get over it"... then kick someone in the throat.

To many fans, she's never looked better. To the layman, I don't think her appearance will ruffle any feathers. To those that want Mortal Kombat and its women to drop any pretense of fanservice and blatant sexuality and to grow up and approach the series with realism and maturity... well, I think it's a bit of a lost cause, because that's the reasons so many people like the franchise (myself included)... and even then, once people see how well she behaves and plays in the game, the argument about how she looks ultimately becomes a cosmetic complaint, no different than wrapping paper on a great gift or a questionable cover to a phenomenal book. So long as Sonya delivers the goods in the areas that matter (story and gameplay), she'll continue to be an icon for the series and one of the leading ladies in the fighting game genre.

Well said, Garlador.

We're all fans here, and I do understand the need (or should that be 'want') to shout out about things you're passionate about. But in the end, it's best to take a step back and think to yourself 'why am I getting so upset about this?'.

I like Sonya's look right now, but if they decide to give her a shirt under that jacket and remove the heels, then so be it. Doesn't mean she's going to be any less special.

Now bring on the gameplay videos so we can see her in action!

1. Again, being a "fantasy" game does not mean that aspect should completely trump character appearance and personality. Throwing in overly sexual females "just because we can" doesn't really do the characters they have worked so long to create any justice.

2. You can have a grown-up, more mature character and STILL rely heavily on fantasy (throwing pink ring projectiles?), while not needing to rely on sexing up the females just because they can.

3. A fantasy game CAN be "fantasy" and still have the characters be who they were meant to be. A "fantasy" game can still be a "fantasy" game without over sexualizing the females. I know it's hard to imagine, I know, but it can be done.

4. We don't konw what she can do in-game yet, so that is out for now.

5. Again, someone needs to tell me how this outfit, in regards to Sonya, DOES fit who she has been portrayed to be all these years. If this is a re-telling, it should NOT be deviated this far from the character. Using Kerri as a reference point, and the fact that she poses in magazines, is moot. She is the actress that PLAYED Sonya Blade, not Sonya Blade herself. Since Kerri is attractive, then Sonya would be attractive as well, I understand what you are trying to say, but because Kerri bears-all in magazines, does that automatically mean Sonya shows her stuff off as well? Does showing as much as you can automatically mean you are "sexy"? I would argue there are different aspects to Sonya's character that made her "sexy" throughout the years, and many of them have been pointed out: she is tough, she is athletic, she is independant, and physically attractive. Not a single one of those aspects would require her to start flashing cleavage left and right for the sake of "fantasy". And she hasn't really needed to in the past (with the exclusion of MKvsDC). Sonya is sexy on her own. Increasing her cup size 5 times per game, and making it a point to show off how big they have gotten is not really necessary. And all of that is only speaking to how Sonya would be potrayed as "sexy".

Not only that, but this outfit, not only being uninspiring, is unfitting for who Sonya has shown herself to be all these years. Again, when you look at her newest rendering, how does this outfit suit "Sonya Blade" (Not Kerri Hoskins)? Aside from "it's fantasy" or "she's hot" or "guys like it", I haven't heard one iota of a reason that it does suit her. And again, if they can't even get this right, I am in serious doubt as to whether or not they will get the story to this franchise right, even a freakin' re-telling (and for those that say story doesn't matter or that it is not popular, comic books, movies, and tv shows, more than most video games have had, based on this mythos would say otherwise).

Completely ridiculous. So when someone doesn't agree with your way of thinking, they get classified as "upset" or "taking things too seriously"? But you aren't taking it too seriously by writing essays on a fictional video game character drooling over her sex appeal? Again, that's completely ridiculous. You say she isn't a real character, but you then describe her as if she was. I'm perfectly fine with arguing, but I'm not going to do so if all I get for my trouble is "y so srs! LOL". No offense intended since I value your input in the community and respect your level of devotion, but sometimes your posts honestly make me draw back in my chair. I'm well aware Sonya is fictional, but sometimes your posts are just a little "out there" and it makes me wonder if you know that too.

I'm fairly sure I posted all my thoughts on this matter in a fairly informed, mature light that eloquently stated how I felt about the matter at hand. What's most annoying is the return response of not disagreement but outright dismissal; I don't expect everyone to share my viewpoint but I certainly expect them not to demean it.

As for your wrapping paper argument, I much prefer my steak and potato comparison. Character design is important to me, it's not just something I throw away for unwrapping cheesy gore or even the gameplay itself. As I said before, simply because the most important thing in the game is great doesn't mean you can ignore all the other things that make the game great as a whole. Character design is one of those things, and as I've said all along, I will say how I feel about it in an effort to influence the creation in some way. I give the team their due praise when what I see impresses me, but it doesn't mean I am going to praise everything mindlessly. I simply do not, and will not ever, like this type of character design. I don't believe any good fan of something should not criticize that which they are interested in. I try to share my opinion on that in the most thoughtful and mature way as I can, it isn't intended to go beyond what the topic is; Mortal Kombat character design. Simply because someone doesn't like it doesn't mean I take it too seriously. I don't think that's too difficult to understand.

No offense, Crow. I've always enjoyed your comments and rants as much as the next guy and I love your passion for the series. And I never addressed you personally... but are you telling me you AREN'T upset at how she looks and that you're not taking her appearance very seriously?

To me, as much as I get invested in the story and characters myself, I can divorce myself from extremely intimate attachment to the game series. I love Sub-Zero as my favorite character, but I wasn't happy with his alt in MK: Deception... didn't faze me in the slightest. Sareena is my favorite MK female, and she's gotten the short end of the stick more times than I care to mention. In fact, I outright HATE those stupid pink lips she has in Armageddon... but she's still my favorite character.

... and never once have I actually DISAGREED with you, Crow. In fact, I do seriously think an undershirt and flat-soled boots would be an improvement for her design. If they changed it, I would not be going "change it back" and bemoaning NRS self-appointed censorship.... but at the same time, that doesn't matter to me so much as how she plays, what personality she expresses, and what her story involvement might be.

So, yes, I find 28 pages to be rather amusing considering we haven't seen a single video of how she plays, how she behaves, what her storyline might be, or even what her alternate costume might be. We just have a few images of her that just so happens to show some cleavage (I preferred MK4's side boobs, myself). The only thing we have discussed, to exhaustive length, is whether or not she needs a few inches of fabric to cover her chest and the height of her heels. As I joked earlier, we've spent 28 pages talking about women's fashion and shoes...

I'd take any complaints more seriously if we had something more to go off of. Gameplay perhaps. Or a story trailer. Or even a snippet of her voice acting. Or EVEN a high-resolution screen shot (rather than magazine scans). Not even Scorpion or Sub-Zero have had discussion lasting this long... and this is all about Sonya's clothes!

But I enjoy this. I don't get upset. Honestly, this is greatly amusing to me. I don't see it as a big deal either way and in fact I wouldn't mind her having an undershirt. But I see the humor of both extremes, which I've mutually poked fun at. Sorry if that offends you, but if you can't see the humor in 28 pages centered on breasts and ladies shoes then I don't think I can change your mind. I never said your arguments aren't well constructed or valid, but at the same the detractors and supporters of both sides have good, and silly, claims.

I just see it as fun fantasy. Glorious excess. I'm pretty much okay with anything NRS does so long as the end product is FUN and, in the end, a great game. It amuses me to see others get bent out of shape on either side of what I perceive to be a purely cosmetic opinion (and if her alternate covers her up, then the argument is even further moot). We don't have any good info to discuss. I WANT to talk about how she fights, what moves she has, what her combo potential is, what her finishes are, what her X-ray will be, whether there are details were aren't seeing, her character trailer, what's her win poses, what about her intro, or even just her round-over taunt, or maybe what her voice actress sounds like, or how her hair animates, what kind of battle damage she'll sustain, whether any new storyline info will drop, her connections to the Black Dragon, maybe info on how or why she joined the Special Forces and partnered up with Jax, whether she'll still have hinted feelings for Johnny Cage, how much of her MK1-3 storyline will be covered, will she have any new abilities, how will her moves look in this new game in glorious HD, etc.

There's a lot we COULD be talking about... but I love how passionate people are about her shirt and shoes.

OMG!!!!!!

Garlador, this was simply and absolutely done just for you. No question about it.

Period:

Sonya Blade Speaks! Kerri Hoskins on Sonya and Mortal Kombat: NEW INTERVIEW

Well, its also for all MK Fans out there and (specifically) for Sonya lovers, but, Garlador is Kerri Hoskins' biggest fan (ever), so, I dedicate that link to him.

PS: I will address yours and Crows fantastic posts later.

Haha Queve, I swear... everytime I see you post something about Sonya, it's like you're having an orgasm or something.

It's not encouraging when a poster goes off on a rant-a-thon and feels the need to write a book to back up their opinion. *looks at above statements*


Is it just me that looked at Sonya's new looks and thought "Goodie, another reason to call someone 'Boobs McGee'."? I don't think that's standard Special Forces uniform.

It'd be fantastic if you could take something that apparently obvious for granted, but it seems further elaboration is commonly necessary, if only for inordinately enthusiastic fans to completely disregard it and spend weeks talking about phantom ultra-conservatives with an imaginary sinister agenda to push habits on everyone. Hey, man. It's just a video game. Why take it seriously enough to have a sensibily measured opinion, geez?... Roll on butt battle and volleyball mode, hur hur.

Opinions will vary, and alas, something as simple as expecting a modicum of design sense and consistency for a character does not apply. The delirious get richer, and the jaded become moreso. Then we all come back to do it again and see who wins the crapshoot during the next game.

Words, they don't come easy.

Haha!

The "Wonder Bra"

...

Okay, I'm done.

I find this a bit hypocritical. You say that your "opposition" are being underhanded by writing you off as a prude, but then you write them off as being delirious. There is some truth in both these arguments, but in neither case does it apply generally.

You touched on the true situation: Tastes, perceptions and opinions vary. People see or expect things to be a certain way. Some people are happy with what is, and not all because they are "delirious". Some are unhappy, and not all because they are "ultra conservative".

This one's going to run and run for a lone time - it's like Israel vs Palestine.

Knowingly droll, for sure.

For reasons I don't fully understand, some of the female characters seem to attract attention from certain fans that I think really could fairly be called deliriously positive. I think they've got one-up on the ultra conservatives by way of the fact that they actually exist, but yes, it's an unfair generalization.

At the end of the day, there seems to be a perspective that's coming from fairly conventional wisdom and common sense. A desire for consistency of characterization, overdue interesting design, and goals a bit more lofty than pubescent fantasy. Then there's a perspective that's quite happy with what we're getting, and actually actively petitioning to disregard conventional wisdoms and common sense. Literally describing these things as negative hindrances in decompressed longform with arbitrary pictures and bolded text.

Porno chick in army bikini cosplay? Hot! Relevance to Sonya? Naught.

Opinions will vary, not always with great reason. That's a little disappointing. It makes it easy to be a bit droll, a bit glib.

What constitutes consistent characterisation and interesting design is subjective. I think what we've seen so far meets those goals, at least as much as in previous games.

I think that overmuscled men and sexy ladies is just part of the culture of comicbooks, action movies, videogames and stuff. It's a visual language that many people understand and enjoy.

I don't have a problem with people having opinions about what they like and don't. The problem I have is when people think theirs is the only logical opinion to have, and I think this is why this thread is so long!

I don't get it. Because if this were Scorpion or Sub-Zero in wildly inappropriate or uninteresting costumes people would be going apeshit. So why is "you're taking it too seriously" such an easy response when it happens with Sonya?

Scorpion is wearing a Reebok hoodie and acid washed jeans? It's just fantasy! Get over it!

What you didn't quote is the direct reference to people who are actually quite literally petitioning against rationale and cognitive brain function -- taking it "seriously" -- which isn't a subjective opinion at all. That's a knowing and expressed disregard for common sense.

Granted, I already mean to give you that there isn't necessarily a single unimpeachable vision for a character, but when they have a clearly stated profession, and are typically depicted as a certain personality type that respects the expectations of that profession, then hiding behind the notion of interpretive subjectivity is a bit shallow.

Maybe the fact that MK has been slow to embellish upon the handicapped results of the early games is someone's idea of an argument for a less than complete vision in 2011. I think we've come far enough since the nineties to assume that the series is certainly looking for evolution, and that it's perfectly reasonable to hold the series' icons to a standard that requires a bit more than vinyl off-cuts and a badge to complete their picture of this world and it's inhabitants. I'd mention those goals above and beyond pubescent fantasy, again.

There is not one single definitive unimpeachable vision of the truth.
That's fine. I completely agree with you with regards to that. I think, however, that this thread has actually been extended greatly by a perspective that has total disregard for any tangible reference or precedent, and a stubborn opposing point of view that's more demanding, if not a bit more grounded. That, and now some people are discussing the discussing of this topic.

I'm sure not everyone who's opposed to the current Sonya design is in agreement with exactly what she should look like. I think they'd draw upon a bit more than the mere premise of the concept of fiction to come up with an alternative, though. I'm also sure they wouldn't all be arguing against the expectation of impossibly fantastic physiques, either.

Like I said, I agree that *some* people are saying this, at least to a degree. However, there are also other people, myself included, who are genuinely happy with what they've seen, not because they are indifferent to it, or because they blindly support everything.

The thing with game characters is that they do change around a bit, given that their "personality"is just what's made each game. People read into it a lot, and have this idea in their head of what they want, or think is right or whatever. I'm sure there are things they could do to characters that I would think out of character, or lame or whatever, but this isn't it.

For me I see enough things carried through from game to game, and I look at MK's "special forces" as like GI joe or something. Not "Who Dares Wins". I think Sonya and Jax have the best look they ever had.

More power to you, sir. I cannot begin to imagine why you feel that way, but I wish you well in all your future endeavours.

And the 90s comic book era along with it's poster boy Rob Liefeld are often reviled, or at least lampooned, because of that two dimensional attitude. Comic books are overall better now because they grew up. What's taking video games so long?

Thanks dude. Same to you.

Are you joking? Sub-Zero has had so many looks that deviate from the "norm" (blue-clad ninja type), and his fanbase was surprisingly receptive to changes.

Here he is as a maskless, shirtless Caucasian dude with a prominent bright red scar:


Here he is as an armor-clad, Shredder samurai warlord type with a pimp collar:


Here he is as a bald, rat-tail haired monk type covered in big, heavy-set robes:


Sub-Zero is my favorite character,and I still prefer his ninja look (specifically his MK:DA alternate costume), but I didn't throw a 30 page tantrum just because they created wildly deviant outfits from his standard ninja getup. I embraced the new spins and takes on his design and character and enjoyed the visual make-overs he received, not because I was particularly fond of them, but because they kept things fresh and new and because I knew he'd still be a fantastic character to play as with a gripping storyline to follow.

That's how I feel about Sonya... or basically anybody in the game, really.

So, yeah, it's not like I'm impartial to Sonya. My favorite character has gone through drastic changes as well and I didn't mind. As a CHARACTER and a FIGHTER Sub-Zero is still the bee's knees, and if Sonya plays as strongly as she always has and keeps her empowered take-no-crap-from-anyone personality and driven mindset, there's not a single thing that would turn me off from her in this game, especially not an odd costume or a little cleavage. As I mentioned, Sub-Zero has had more revisions than she ever did and that's done nothing to lower my affection for the character, and neither does Sonya's new outfit.