I already inserted a picture of a dead horse being beaten. We are now officially at the level of beating a dead horse with the corpses of other dead horses.

I've actually progressed beyond caring, but rather I'm finding a bit of sadistic glee in how both extremists are so upset with how she should or should not look. I am ultimately of the opinion that, hey, it's puerile video game fantasy and that Sonya is still more conservatively dressed than 90% of all video game women, and also the hilarity that the people that CREATED her apparently can't decide what is or is not in character for her to wear or act like.

You can bet your bottom Sonya's gonna have a different alternate costume. I heard these same complaints about her MK:DA design when I first joined here years ago ("her boobs are huge and they bounce so much!" "Why's her shirt so small?" "Is that a thong?" "Why does she look like a shaved ape... and why does that turn me on?"), I heard it about her Shoalin Monk's version, I heard it about her MK vs DC version... and I'm hearing it now. And every time, without fail, fans warm up to the design and then, when the new one comes along, they go "why can't it look more like the old version?" I'm sure they'll say it again next game.

And as I've said in another thread, it doesn't matter to me what she wears.... I'm picturing her naked in my head regardless, whether she's wearing a bikini thong or full-body armor. Where there's a will, there's a vivid imagination that finds a way. Huzzah!

In the end, I suppose me and the "other half" are just simply more about visuals than realism. I have never stared more often at a newly-revealed Sonya, not even in MKDC, her first outing in "new gen". I like what I see a lot, and I am nearing a panic attack that stems merely from wanting to watch her whoop ass in those sexy twenty-three inch heels. If she doesn't look like she's working and on the clock, well, I don't give two rat asses. All I know is she looks good.

I do understand the logic some of you guys have presented, and yes, I in fact do agree that this outfit is not befitting a lieutenant. What it comes down to is that we, the "other half", are willing to let go much more easily for the sake of having a sexy + bad-ass Sonya. You guys aren't. You want Sonya to ooze professionalism out of her pores, and let her sexiness be a subtle hint of what might be. We just want our equation. Sexy + Bad-ass = Sonya. That's it. Nothing in MK screams "realism" to me, and if I'm willing to submerse myself in absolutely nonsensical fun, than I am more than comfortable watching Sonya throw a high kick in heels.

Not a single ONE really??? The number of times slut, hooker, whore, etc. is used on this forum is well I'll just post a few from this and some from others (one I can't paste is the title of a closed thread called "The girls look like whores..." Closed I add because there were other topics saying the exact same thing!). I really didn't want to post this HUGE a list but you did ask me too. Sorry. Although I am not attacking all of the posts below I am simply doing what Crow and Mick-Lucifer asked me to do and show them where the references to people yelling about "sluts, etc." is coming from so these are SOME of the posts where someone references slut or something derogatory even if (For some at least) the rest of the argument may indeed be about not fitting the character's persona.



Redeemed self in later posts so meh.



Hookers and a bimbo reference.



Porn star and a whore.



Of course to be honest I can't tell if he's supporting or countering the view due to grammar...



Well while he discusses Kira as the "slutty sonya" he implies that this sonya is slutty and therefore more kira. So both a valid point and a use of the the word "slut". lol



Makes reference to Mileena being slutty in between valid points.



Supports the look but still calls her a whore.. Trying to take back the word?? LMAO...



Biker Slut...



Apparently according to this false statistic you are ignoring 80% of the MK community when you say I have no evidence to back up my complaint on the OVERUSE of "whore" as a descriptive adjective! In your defense however, I wouldn't have gone THAT far with my estimate. I think it's more than a few but not 80%... lol.



Slutty, sluttiest, and skank.



Quoted person is (like me) annoyed at overuse of stated terms being used over and over and over... poster disagrees and lends support to use of said words.



Because revealing outfits automatically mean slut apparently.



Makes all valid points and once again speaks out AGAINST the constant need to call the girls disreputable just because of wardrobe choices. lol







I love queve's posts and once again queve comes to the rescue of the female cast. Honorable mention to Jaded-Raven as well...

.... can I please stop now this is way too long. Is this enough evidence... I think it is guys. I mean a lot of these are blended into actually VALID points but those points are diminished by constantly tossing around derogatory names and saying that the characters must be disreputable just because of how they dress. I reiterate again that YES the posters did have valid points about things not fitting in character by their opinion and those arguments would have been just as good as Queve's, Jaded-Raven's, Crow's, Mick-Lucifer's, etc. if they didn't have so much reliance on "ad hominem" (attacks against someone's or this case a character's character).

So I apologize for the long list of quotes but as I said you asked me to show you proof. It doesn't represent the majority of the posts and sure as hell doesn't represent 80% LOL but it is a repetitive minority. To Mick-Lucifer and Crow, you're posts have always struck me as intelligent and well-argued even if I don't agree with you some of the time. I often do agree with you on many points. You were never intended as targets of my rants as you were not the ones making the above mentioned complaints. In fact you both repeatedly tried to bring things BACK on topic to a mature and civilized debate as a forum should be. So hate away on me... lol. You asked for the proof and I asked for my soon to be ass-chewing. So I'll just sit back and laugh my ass off so there won't be any of it left for any one else!

Thank You BloodFang!

::wipes brow:: That was TOO long by my standards... seriously... don't EVER EVER ask me to do something like that again... lol. I must now keel over from abject redundany. I apologize to all of you (especially those without scroll-buttons), but nobody more so than those who don't need to be criticized for the RIDICULOUS overuse of calling someone "slutty" simply because of how they are dressed. HUGE derailing of topic here and I am sorry but I must come to the defense of even virtual fictional ladies and their freedom to wear whatever they want... lol.

Bloodfang, your post is a slut and I see too much evidence showing.

Yup, those were my initial snap reactions and I stand by them because those were, as stated, how I felt when I saw the picture of her. I didn't see Sonya, I saw some blonde chick in tight leather that looked more at home on a Harley at Sturgis than someone of respect and authority in a US government organization. As a fan of the SF characters I just think they deserve better and smarter designs. Again here's hoping they can come up with an alternate that I can dig because this current one doesn't work for me.

Whatever, as I stated before it is what it is. What it is depends on your perspective. The end.

"Slut" and "whore" might not be my go-to phrase of reference, but I think for all intents and purposes it's a fair enough shorthand for what most people seem to be trying to express. I'm not really seeing a lot of mindless conservative agendas being pushed here. If you accept that there's a reasonable argument to be made about the inconsistency of the design as a reflection of Sonya's character, then I think it's reasonable to also see these references as unelaborative remarks about the same.

I'd be very surprised if there were legitimate conservatives jumping on an MK board to talk about how much the older games' designs were better.

To me, the entire argument is about a shallow pattern emerging in the design of the MK women, which shows little to no regard to what we can source from their established character. Mileena could be rationalized, Kitana was a bit more of a stretch, and now Sonya requires the most grace to be deemed acceptable. Yes, there's an element of negativity with regards to the overt sexuality of the characters, but one would presume anyone complaining about that, regardless of their shorthand, is upset because it's motivated by cheap tricks. Not because they want women to be wrapped head-to-toe in cloth. Which is probably why the reaction has seemed quite ridiculous.

Using the words "whore" etc. does not necessarily mean the post is bad OR that they are saying it without reason. Just read! All of those people question whether she is what her profession is! They are just using phrases to describe what they think she looks like, but it has nothing to do with conservatism. It's again because she's Sonya, and because of what her role is. Perhaps they aren't as eloquent as I, but who is? But in all seriousness... I just don't use words like that in my argument, others do. I don't feel using the terms "whore" or "slut" mean they are prudes. Again, they aren't complaining for the sake of complaining, all of those complaints come in because the design is not befitting to Sonya.

Since seeing the HQ pic of her I like her alot more.

She looks tough and sexy. I dont think her costume is too vulgar. Im just gald she doesnt have a man jaw like in MKvsDC.

I'll have to vehemently disagree. I am not basing my argument on the grounds of fiction and whether or not ficition is applicable to either. I'm basing my argument on the commanlity between the EXTREMES of both overt sexuality and gratuitous violence. They are COMPLETELY and TOTALLY related. This is a game built on excess, and I don't see how you can't see the correlation personally. Go to sleep for a couple hours and totally miss my chance to defend my argument. Regardless...HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE WHO CELEBRATES IT!!!

This is not necessarily true. Play games like Resident Evil, Silent Hill or any other survival horror game. They feature heavy violence, yet there's little if any overt sexuality. The two don't correlate unless the developer wishes them to. There's no rule that it has to be this way.

Also, I wanted to reply to a point brought up by Garlador about this being the developers' creation. Yes, the MK team develops all the characters. But without the community there would be no video games. As you stated, Samus was not well received in Other M despite this being what some of her creators envisioned for her. You then go on to say you aren't worried because you doubt that Samus will ever been seen again. Why do you think that? If that's what the developers want for her, why would they change it? The feedback is why. Just because the developer thinks it is a good idea does not mean that it is. Therefore, much like those Samus fans, I am voicing my displeasure in their female character design in the hopes they will hear enough of us and change their tendencies to strip the personality from these characters by stripping off their clothing.

Of course, who has the real final say on what is "befitting" of Sonya? People rejected Heath Ledger's Joker PASSIONATELY when he was first cast... they said "this isn't the Joker", and the guy went on to win an Oscar for the role.

People complained about her thong, but she's officially worn one for two games and had thong-tan lines in another. So that's three games where a thong was an essential part of her wardrobe. Every single game has her wearing exceptionally tight shirts, exposing cleavage, side-boob, navel, and sometimes more. She's worn form-fitting pants in several games that show off her delicious stems and curvy behind. Can you name a single thing about her MK1-MK3 costumes that had even a hint of military in them beyond "she's got some green"?

I would like to plainly ask what is not befitting of her, because the same complaints I keep hearing over and over could be lobbied at almost every single one of her previous looks and designs.

And ultimately, NRS is the one that ultimately decides what Sonya's personality is and what clothes "befit" her. Ed Boon, her co-creator, is still having final say over her development. What I'm seeing is not arguments about whether Sonya's design is "suitable" for her, but rather other people upset she doesn't conform to their ideal standard and keep projecting that onto the character.

It could very well be that, no, this is Sonya. This IS how she dresses. This is how she behaves. If people want to focus on her T&A and overlook her actions, her poise, her personality and words, her background, and just how much ass she can kick, that's their loss.
As a passionate Resident Evil and Silent Hill fan, and Survival Horror game aficionado, that's really not the case. How practical was it in Resident Evil 3 for Jill to run around in a miniskirt and a tube top surrounded by flesh-eating zombies? Resident Evil 5 has a costume for Sheva that's just warpaint and leopard skin and is extremely skimpy and Jill Valentine's costume was so tight they actually modeled in camel toe for her (seriously). That excludes characters that ARE overly sexual, like Excella Giolla and Ada Wong (who fights zombies in a cocktail dress and high heels). Silent Hill is EXTREMELY sexual. It is arguably the most sexual game series ever made outside of porn. Silent Hill 2 has rape in it, seduction, strippers, the whole shebang. Silent Hill: Shattered Memories asks you about your own sexual quirks and the game gets more sexual the more you gravitate to those interests, including showing characters with more sexuality, cleavage, and monsters with enlarged female physiques. Silent Hill 4 had unlockable fetish outfits of lingerie and a sexy nurse, Silent Hill 3 had tons of unlockable costumes (including one where Heather transforms into a Sailor Moon knockoff, but not before getting naked), and Silent Hill 1's Lisa was revealed to have slept around for drug money. It's a pretty intensely sexual series, and even it's demented sexual, busty, deformed nurses are symbolic with the series itself.


As Crow mentioned, this reminds me of the debacle with Samus Aran in Metroid: Other M, except that WAS a genuine character shift. That was different than a purely aesthetic make-over (though 6'3" Samus DID shrink so that she was towered over by all the men.) From strong, independent, stoic, and brave to weak, codependent, chatty, and crying hysterically throughout the game. So, unless Sonya breaks down crying in front of Kano, gives Shao Kahn a stripper-pole dance, or ends up playing beach volleyball with Kitana and Mileena, I think people are blowing this out of proportion.

Exactly. If we don't tell the creators they are doing something wrong, they're just going to keep fucking doing it wrong.

That's just a bad way to look at things. "They made the game, it means they're always right" is the gist of your post. If we as fans don't complain, we don't get rid of terrible things like animalities, babalities, broken fighting engine or anything else they've ever done wrong. No one is perfect, and a good fan of the series is objective to the point where they can tell the developer of the game what it is they didn't like.

I am never going to be one of those fans that sit back and praise everything. I feel it is untrue to yourself and detrimental to the game in general. Without criticism you will end up with a lower quality product.

Man, if they weree truthful when they said they read most of the forums then they probably will take a little more time to tweak the design more because this topic is growing pages every day. I do agree it should be tweaked slightly.

I don't want to quote cuz it looks messy lol. However, @ Crow: I'm not saying that they automatically have to go with one another. I never said that there was some unspoken rule they had to go hand in hand. I'm just saying, when I see both in a form that's so extreme in a game/movie/etc I'm not offended or shocked by one more than the other. I was just curious as to how people could be more offended by one than the other, never stating that they must be together at the same time all the time.

Again, I don't think anyone here is offended. We are on a Mortal Kombat website and I highly doubt anyone is offended by breasts or ass. This argument is mostly an argument about character design. Just because there is a lot of gore in the game doesn't mean the characters can't be designed a little more seriously. Jill Valentine doesn't run around killing zombies in a bikini.

I've posted my opinion on when they dress their women up purely for sex appeal, and throwing all character backstory and logic out the window, so I am not gonna go on another rant...

But I DO think if they are gonna take that approach, and show thongs, have no bras, little to no clothing, and have high heels on etc. Sonya should be the ONE person that doesn't follow this trend. Even though others such as Kitana shouldn't be dressed that way either, Sonya is the biggest example of someone who would not, should not, and makes zero sense to have her tits hanging out etc. It just destroys her character and everything she is supposed to be about. I would expect such character treatment from another studio, but you would think NetherRealm would be a bit more protective and logical about their characters.

If this is the case, and they have no apparent value in keeping their characters consistent and sticking to their individual traits that set them apart... why not put Scorpion dressed in rainbows, give Sub-Zero fire, and make Jax white?

It's stupid to contradict everything that makes your characters what they are. They'd rather have Sonya be another run of the mill, dime a dozen, slutty dressed blonde, than actually have a female lead with an actual unique personality in that she's not trying to be pretty or cute...she's just trying to defend her world and takes shit from noone.

Oh well...

You're right, she fights flesh-eating zombies dressed like this:

And Ada Wong fights zombies dressed like this:
And Sheva has a costume where she fights zombies that looks like this:

Highly practical for the situation...

Well, actually in almost all of the Resident Evil games you can have an altenrate where the chick is basically butt naked. Sheva can fight in a Tribal outfit showing both her buttcheeks, serious boobage and a clubbin outfit where I swore I saw clit. Regardless, I get where you're coming from. Was just a question!

You describe Sonya as something she never was.

It is, given the game's storyline, so again you're making a bad point. In RE1 Jill was in uniform because the game's storyline called for it. In RE3 the city has been overrun and Jill is in a more casual attire. Sonya should be in uniform storyline wise for this game because she is tracking a federal fugitive and ends up in Outworld.

Alts don't count, also. They're alts for a reason.

LOL I'll just let it go. I don't think there's going to be a point where I can agree with you on this one, Crow! Mei guanxi (Chinese for nevermind, I try and use it everywhere now so I don't get rusty. )

That's a terrible excuse. After going through the ordeal in RE1, wouldn't Jill be MORE likely to dress UP when the zombie invasion flares up? I mean, she's wearing a long-sleeve shirt AROUND HER WAIST! ANYTHING is better than nothing to protect your delicious flesh from zombie bites. And ANYTHING is more practical to run around in than a miniskirt. She obviously has jeans or pants.

And whose to say Sonya doesn't strip down after starting the tournament? Look at the movie; does she end up fighting in all the military gear she starts off with? No, she fights in something more casual; short shorts and a wife-beater. Nothing about that really screams "military" to me.

And alts ALWAYS count if the fans make them count. Again, Kitana and Sub-Zero's alts in MK:DA were vastly preferred to their main outfits, enough so that they became their primaries in MK: Armageddon. And Scorpion's Deception alt was just a perfect recreation of his MK3 and MK4 uniform, which also became his primary in Armageddon. Don't be so quick to cast aside an alt costume. If Sonya gets an alt that fixes ALL your problems, you can just pick that instead, right?