Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:

Three words: Rampant Sonya fanboyism


Pretty much.
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oracle
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11/24/2010 03:55 PM (UTC)
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LeoBrZ81 Wrote:
The way I see it (and this is perhaps why I am so accepting of these additions), every person in the world, regardless of their professional position, will more often than not wear pieces other than their uniform. I'm sure Sonya wears PJs to go to bed (or a sexy lacy lingerie... black... with red accentuations... with see-though......... never mind). And I'm sure when she's out and about shopping for groceries or picking a bar fight (?), she rocks a casual attire. I'm also sure she has some sense of fashion and looking good despite being hard-edged, and would throw on a pair of high-heeled boots once in a while. Hey, who knows: maybe she thought she'd look stylin' rocking those boots with a couple pieces of her military gear and attire! I don't know, maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I just can't bring myself to relate to you guys being so startled over the specifics of what she's wearing :-/


Honestly for me it's less about what Sonya is wearing personally and more about how her boots are legitimate combat boots with a stripper heel attached. To me it looks totally ridiculous and is the worst part of her outfit. I'm all for Sonya being put into different things or things that she hasn't had on before AND I loved the heels from the MKDA alt but the difference is those boots look like boots that would have a stiletto heel. Combat boots don't you know?

queve Wrote:
Same could be said about the straps around Scorpions huge muscles. It is clearly there to give it a "feel" and a "cool" look that adds to the design. I love it. I actually wish she had more random straps around her.

If she had the same strap design on her other arm I'd be more forgiving about it but the way it is now it's like they decided she was too "empty" looking and just put anything on her to fill her out and make the outfit more interesting.
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queve
11/24/2010 04:12 PM (UTC)
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oracle Wrote:
LeoBrZ81 Wrote:
The way I see it (and this is perhaps why I am so accepting of these additions), every person in the world, regardless of their professional position, will more often than not wear pieces other than their uniform. I'm sure Sonya wears PJs to go to bed (or a sexy lacy lingerie... black... with red accentuations... with see-though......... never mind). And I'm sure when she's out and about shopping for groceries or picking a bar fight (?), she rocks a casual attire. I'm also sure she has some sense of fashion and looking good despite being hard-edged, and would throw on a pair of high-heeled boots once in a while. Hey, who knows: maybe she thought she'd look stylin' rocking those boots with a couple pieces of her military gear and attire! I don't know, maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I just can't bring myself to relate to you guys being so startled over the specifics of what she's wearing :-/


Honestly for me it's less about what Sonya is wearing personally and more about how her boots are legitimate combat boots with a stripper heel attached. To me it looks totally ridiculous and is the worst part of her outfit. I'm all for Sonya being put into different things or things that she hasn't had on before AND I loved the heels from the MKDA alt but the difference is those boots look like boots that would have a stiletto heel. Combat boots don't you know?

queve Wrote:
Same could be said about the straps around Scorpions huge muscles. It is clearly there to give it a "feel" and a "cool" look that adds to the design. I love it. I actually wish she had more random straps around her.

If she had the same strap design on her other arm I'd be more forgiving about it but the way it is now it's like they decided she was too "empty" looking and just put anything on her to fill her out and make the outfit more interesting.


Very fair points.

I have no problem with her new boots or the high heels. She looks deadly and sexy. But, I do agree with you that I rather see Sonya with her big old regular tough fat boots. No heels. It fits her so much better. Sure, Sonya looks great in heels, but, is it really necessary to have all the babes fighting in heels?

Regarding the straps, I think that's kind of the point, isn't it? To make her design more interesting and spice her up.

I wouldn't mind seeing her second arm with the same straps around it, but, I honestly prefer it this way. It looks cooler and more "stylish". She also had only 1 in one arm in her MKvsDC model not both).

They are there simply to look cool.

I hope we see more straps around her in this costume or her alternate. I also kind of wish she had more going on with her pants (think of Kira and Johnny Cage).
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11/24/2010 04:14 PM (UTC)
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What's with the heels?

You know, they actually got all her essential stuff down really good this time. She looks good as far anatomy, the balance between a badass, but hot female was done really well, she's nice a toned. Hair looks good....got a badge and the dogtags... With the bigger picture, I don't have a problem with the gloves, knee pads, or the straps around her legs and things like that either...sweet.

I think they could convert those heels into boots rather easily too. They could retain the design that's there with the shoe strings going up the leg and all that. Just, instead of a heel, make it a boot.

She still needs a shirt under that vest too.... a white shirt preferably.

Those are pretty much my only 2 "complaints" about her appearance now that I can see the bigger picture. She looks really good otherwise.... Not impressive by any means, but really good for a redesigned MK1-T Sonya.

At that point, I'd just hope her alternate costume took alot from her MKSM appearance, except, embellished a tad more on the military appeal though. They could actually give me the same MKSM design with little liberties taken here or there about her costume.
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WarriorPrincess
11/24/2010 04:16 PM (UTC)
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I don't give a flying F*CK what anyone thinks at this point. Sonya looks friggin AMAZING! I've never been a huge Sonya fan, but I am actually very much looking forward to playing with her this time around. Love the outfit even more now that I've seen it in a higher resolution, and her boots! OMG LOVE THEM! Screw realism, give me heels dammit! I so wish those screen shots had showed her performing the ring blast. I'm glad to see the "Church" returning, from what I can tell in the small image, it looks very good. 2010 be over already! I can't wait much longer without losing my marbles lol.
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queve
11/24/2010 05:03 PM (UTC)
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ThePredator151 Wrote:
.....Huge awesome Sonya-analysis post....
===

Now, if we all look at how they've been doing things, we can probably see they're doing this very sort of thing. So, make no mistake, this post was not at all about "telling them what to do", and it really isn't about "telling them what we want".

It's more about understanding what 11 pages of bickering is all about over one character. Sonya isn't even really that important in the grand scheme of Mortal Kombat's history. She's not that heavy in the story element, and I don't ever think I've heard high level players mention her as top tier as far as gameplay goes. She's never been in anyones "video games' hottest chicks" list or anything like that either.

She's really just an icon, and she's my favorite female character, simply put.

/rant


Like others have already said: I think you did an excellent job writing down your thoughts and perspective regarding Sonya. I also think you did a good job nailing some of the main specifics regarding the vision/perspective I have of Miss Blade.

I particularly enjoyed your breakdown on how to organize the ideas in order to have a balanced design. Good job man! I might not agree with everything, but overall, I think you nail the balanced idea. I guess there has to be some sacrifices made from both parts (though I would never choose to sacrifice the long bangs, futuristic sleek look, and straps).

I don't have anything to add, but, I did want to address a few points of that quote:

1) I disagree with you that Sonya "isn't that important" in the grand scheme of MK's history. That's bull. Sure, she hasn't killed Shao Kahn or she isn't Raiden's lost secret daughter, but, her role has been pretty significant no matter how steady her storyline has remained. People can argue her story has been stale all they want, it doesn't take away the fact that her involvement has been a heavy role in what MK is today.

2) You also got the "Top Tier" part wrong. She was crazy #1 in MK1 (the top tier fighter of that game), pretty decent in MK3-MK4 and MKvsDC, and a "Top Tier" fighter in MKDA (#5 best character if I'm not mistaking). Her gameplay has never been bad, mediocre, or low tier (but for me, in the end, as long as she is fun to play as that's what matters).

3) And Sonya Blade would like a word with you regarding Video Game lists:

Top 10 Video Game Chicks

As soon as I find that awesome Top 20 article regarding recognizable video game babes that featured Sonya I will post a link (its from gamestop, or ign, I think...one of those kind of sites anyways). It's a nice read that features Lara Croft as #1 (no surprise there).

ThePredator151 Wrote:
What's with the heels?

You know, they actually got all her essential stuff down really good this time. She looks good as far anatomy, the balance between a badass, but hot female was done really well, she's nice a toned. Hair looks good....got a badge and the dogtags... With the bigger picture, I don't have a problem with the gloves, knee pads, or the straps around her legs and things like that either...sweet.

I think they could convert those heels into boots rather easily too. They could retain the design that's there with the shoe strings going up the leg and all that. Just, instead of a heel, make it a boot.

She still needs a shirt under that vest too.... a white shirt preferably.

Those are pretty much my only 2 "complaints" about her appearance now that I can see the bigger picture. She looks really good otherwise.... Not impressive by any means, but really good for a redesigned MK1-T Sonya.

At that point, I'd just hope her alternate costume took alot from her MKSM appearance, except, embellished a tad more on the military appeal though. They could actually give me the same MKSM design with little liberties taken here or there about her costume.


I agree with you.

As for her alt, I personally want to see a more risky and drastic design. I'm obviously not talking about exposed breasts or fighting half naked in a bikini. What I'm talking about is something more like this:



or this (+ more futuristic/military elements, of course):



Short pants would also be a welcomed addition. And I really wouldn't mind seeing this boots again:



WarriorPrincess Wrote:
I don't give a flying F*CK what anyone thinks at this point. Sonya looks friggin AMAZING! I've never been a huge Sonya fan, but I am actually very much looking forward to playing with her this time around. Love the outfit even more now that I've seen it in a higher resolution, and her boots! OMG LOVE THEM! Screw realism, give me heels dammit! I so wish those screen shots had showed her performing the ring blast. I'm glad to see the "Church" returning, from what I can tell in the small image, it looks very good. 2010 be over already! I can't wait much longer without losing my marbles lol.


I love the boots as much as you do, but at the end of the road, don't you think that boots with no high-heels fit Sonya's character a lot better than the ones we saw?

I mean, it's kind of impossible not to like this new high heel boots after those glorious high kick pictures we saw of her, but, I think it would be great if they gave females more diversity (The heels suit Mileena and Kitana, let Sonya be the one to kick a$$ in boots).
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WarriorPrincess
11/24/2010 05:33 PM (UTC)
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I agree with ya Queve to a certain extent, no heels for Sonya would have fit her personality better, but I also have to consider that flat combat boots is not the only thing Sonya wears. Special Forces or not, I'm sure Sonya changes her clothes and shoes just like everyone else. (granted she were a real person)
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tonytrash
11/24/2010 05:34 PM (UTC)
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God the woman who played Sonya in MK1 was so gross.

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queve
11/24/2010 05:46 PM (UTC)
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tonytrash Wrote:
God the woman who played Sonya in MK1 was so gross.


LOL. Well, that is a very unfair and unflattering picture of her. She looks pretty here:

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NoobSaibot5
11/24/2010 06:16 PM (UTC)
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While I dont personally like the idea that all the women presented so far have been overtly sexualised for the sake of it (in fact, I detest it) I do think her outfit is far more appropriate than her Mk vs DC one (expecting Queve to kill me now! lol).

When I seen her in Mk vs Dc I initially thought she was the MK equivalent of SF's Cammy with her long gloves, fringe hair and beret. I wasn't too keen on her lack of waist, hips, and oversized breasts either. I like the body she has in this game, and her new outfit reminds me a lot of her MK1 attire, but if NRS are actually reading this, for the love of god stop making the women sexy just because sex sells. If anything, the game might sell with appropriate marketing, not the female character's being flaunted in overtly sexual and non practical outfits.

I love Sonya, always have! But there are minor things they could do to change this outfit for the better. A headband, an undershirt, and removing the heel on her boot would make her look perfect.

In total I'd rate the outfit 7/10 purely on the basis that it's not as revealing as Kitana's and could easily be improved.
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Mick-Lucifer
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11/24/2010 06:25 PM (UTC)
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Is "futuristic" the latest buzzword MK fans use without regard for it's meaning or validity? Right after "good" and "attractive". Yeesh.
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MrHoppyX
11/24/2010 06:28 PM (UTC)
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NoobSaibot5 Wrote: for the love of god stop making the women sexy just because sex sells.

Give the people what they want! MK is escapist fantasy. The guys are ripped. The girls are hot. That's part of the appeal. It's over the top and awesome.

As a guy I like sexy ladies. As a guy I also like my sex being represented in a sexy way, no homo. A lot of ladies like to be sexy too, and to identifiy with sexy characters in games.

Check out cosplay. Loads of times, ladies "sex up" their costumes with high heels and stuff. Is this because they are forced to by the patriarchy? No. Is it because they want to be idolised by men and ultimately "get some"? Maybe that's part of it.

Another part of it is that a lot of ladies just like to look good for the sake of looking good. That's one of the cool things about ladies. It's not just because they are "selling themselves" to men. It's about self image and stuff. I know it's a cliche, but girls love shoes, not just because guys do too.

It's like how having a Ferrari helps you pick up chicks, but if there weren't any chicks, you'd still want a Ferrari.
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WarriorPrincess
11/24/2010 07:19 PM (UTC)
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Absolutely no one buys MK with the sole purpose to gawk at it's female characters, and considering they are seldom used in the marketing of the game, (we all know Scorpion is the go to guy when it comes to marketing) "sex selling" has little to do with anything. I'm female and I think Sonya looks fantastic, not even remotely slutty or any of those retarded insulting names you all have been throwing around.
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11/24/2010 07:31 PM (UTC)
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If absurdly sexualized doesn't work for you, you could always try out boring as batshit. If generic was going to be the design inspiration, they could've at least strapped some stock military paraphernalia to her, and given her a shirt. I never thought Bridgette Wilson's outfit from the movie would stand out above the games'!

Of course, given that all three female characters have almost no design, with the exception of an abundance of cleavage, it doesn't seem unfair to fall back on how ridiculously sexualized the characters are. In ways that seem to fly in the face of what we've known of them for two decades, nevermind how lazy and boring it is.

I'm not shocked that there's a swell of support for it, but it confirms those familiar old negatives about the perspective a certain type of fan brings. I don't think they do the series any favours. Even if boobs might legitimately sell a few extra copies to blossoming pubescents who otherwise haven't considered this 'dumb old series' called Mortal Kombat.
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Skaven13
11/24/2010 07:51 PM (UTC)
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Mick-Lucifer Wrote:
Of course, given that all three female characters have almost no design, with the exception of an abundance of cleavage, it doesn't seem unfair to fall back on how ridiculously sexualized the characters are. In ways that seem to fly in the face of what we've known of them for two decades, nevermind how lazy and boring it is..


What do you mean almost no design? The abundance of cleavage IS the design!!

I really don't think NRS knows how to design a female without accentuating the breastage factor. They are literally incapable of creating an attractive design without it. Their track record of female designs doesn't help. Most of the female designs were criticized as being "manly". What's the solution to that? No, not improve the overall design...don't improve facial features...increase the breast size 2 cups per game and make an outfit that takes the attention away from everything else!!!!

Seriously, if these things get any bigger, they might as well use them to block with, because their arms certainly aren't going to be able to cover their bodies in a block. Heck, the females might as well use them in their fatalities as well. They're big enough to pummel the enemy with anyways. That should satisfy the market that NRS thinks they are catering to.
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MortalMushroom
11/24/2010 08:58 PM (UTC)
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well, I'm over the vest thing. I just gotta accept the fact that it is what it is, and it's probably not going to change, and just be happy that she's in the game. Also judging by the scans, the huge open spot in the vest isn't as prominent in game.
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11/24/2010 09:01 PM (UTC)
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Skaven13 Wrote:
What do you mean almost no design? The abundance of cleavage IS the design!!

I really don't think NRS knows how to design a female without accentuating the breastage factor. They are literally incapable of creating an attractive design without it. Their track record of female designs doesn't help. Most of the female designs were criticized as being "manly". What's the solution to that? No, not improve the overall design...don't improve facial features...increase the breast size 2 cups per game and make an outfit that takes the attention away from everything else!!!!

Seriously, if these things get any bigger, they might as well use them to block with, because their arms certainly aren't going to be able to cover their bodies in a block. Heck, the females might as well use them in their fatalities as well. They're big enough to pummel the enemy with anyways. That should satisfy the market that NRS thinks they are catering to.

HAH! Maybe they've just grown so sick of being compared unfavourably to other series, they're going to strike back at them one at a time, starting with DOA. grin

I really don't know what to think. Shirt or no shirt, this does not look like the design of one of video games' front running female leads. Stealing from other games probably wouldn't be a bad idea at this point, given that MK's done such a shakey job to affirm it's place in history after nearly twenty years. It's rivals can all produce definitive designs, but it feels like we're still waiting to get it right in MK. Let's hope there are some kick arse alternate costumes waiting behind krypt doors. Personally I think this is the worst outing for Kitana and Sonya, compounded by the fact that it's 2010.

I don't like feeling so negative about things, but being an MK fan, especially one with an active interest in other pop culture domains, continues to feel like barracking for the losing team. The potential for greatness has always been there, and I want to stick by them, but you get a fumble like this that can only beffudle and confound. Where's the vision?

Let's hope the gamble on cheap thrills and nostalgic references pays off, because they sure as hell don't seem to be creating a new legacy for themselves.
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NS922
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11/24/2010 09:12 PM (UTC)
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Lady Gaga needs to start helping NRS design females.
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T-rex
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11/24/2010 09:20 PM (UTC)
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Those fucking heels need to go. They somehow worked for the General Sonya alt,but her wearing them as a part of her regular costume is all sorts of retarded and completely impractical.
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ServantToMileena
11/24/2010 09:21 PM (UTC)
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Yeah, that's just what we want. Sonya fighting around in nothing but raw meat.
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EdenianNinja
11/24/2010 10:11 PM (UTC)
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I think Sonya looks awesome! Yeah she's showing off some boobies, but she looks great! I really hated her design during the MKDA-MKA era, and I love this look for her. It fits her, this is THE Sonya the belongs in Mortal Kombat.
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firesnake
11/24/2010 10:17 PM (UTC)
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There you go now she's coverd up.


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11/24/2010 10:30 PM (UTC)
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ServantToMileena Wrote:
Yeah, that's just what we want. Sonya fighting around in nothing but raw meat.

You beat me to it.

On a side note, there's always the possibility this is going to be her alt costume. In MKDA, we saw Reptile's alt first, and in MKD, we saw Smoke's alt initially, so hey, who knows. If I remember correctly, I think both those costumes were intended to be primaries but changed due to...

*drum roll*

fan input.
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~Crow~
11/24/2010 10:32 PM (UTC)
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I don't think requesting costumes that fit a character's personality are that much to ask for, honestly. It doesn't mean we are looking for Sonya in a potato sack, full ninja garb or even a completely standard military uniform. This just doesn't fit her and it conflicts with the storyline.

Every character is showing cleavage, has excessively large breasts among other things. Is it bad to ask for just one character that dresses in a way that seems to fit her character? Kitana and Sonya are a princess and US military lieutenant, respectively. I don't care if this is Mortal Kombat and some of you think being outrageous is okay. You can't compare shirtless men to women, and you all know it. Society operates a certain way and that's just a fact. Something comparable to what they're doing with all the females would be like if Nightwolf had assless chaps on or if Johnny Cage wore a speedo and his package was bulging out. It's not going to happen and you know it, so people on that tired routine just need to stop already. Kitana and Sonya should dress a little more in character because design is important to me and a lot of other people. When I select Sub-Zero I want to feel like I'm controlling an ice ninja, and I do, because he is designed like one. Sonya on the other hand is designed like a boot model.
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RazorsEdge701
11/24/2010 10:50 PM (UTC)
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queve Wrote:
BTW, that's an awesome pic of her badge. May I ask (pretty please) where did you get that picture from? Do you know where I can find more pics of these kind of MK little things (Krypts stuff, those relics in MKA, etc)?

Thanks so much Razor! smile


I have screenshots of...about 50 of the relics. I got them from kamidogu.com's Konquest walkthrough. They're not all there though, apparently said walkthrough isn't finished yet, it stops mid-Kahn's Castle stage.
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