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Big_Speck
03/27/2011 02:01 AM (UTC)
0
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Big_Speck Wrote:
Also, Sub-Zero only had the Medallion during Deadly Alliance, as Frost took it during these events.


When Frost froze herself, Subby took the medallion back. Otherwise, she'd still have it in Armageddon and her powers would be better. But no, the medallion is worn on Subby's alt costume in Deception and his primary in Armageddon.


Shit my bad, totally forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. i overlook simple stuff like that sometimes.
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Tekunin_General
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03/27/2011 02:29 AM (UTC)
0
Big_Speck Wrote:
Casselman Wrote:
Its hard to understand, because we don't really know where Subzero would end up without the Medallion. He could have barely beat Sektor OR he could have raped him. We just don't know where his natural power lays on the scale without the medallion. He has to be up there though for his battles through MK2-MK4. Hes gotta be mid-high tier at least.

Why was he chosen after Sektor and Cyrax though? I wonder if it was Rank, or if another tactical decision was made. Maybe Warriors born without special powers were chosen at first because..

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
We hear NOTHING of Sektor or Cyrax having special powers in the vignettes or Endings.


Then after success, maybe they looked to people WITH powers.


I always thought that in Sub-Zero's second MK:DA bio that he only got the dragon Medallion after defeating Sektor. We also have the fact that he managed to fight off the Lin Kuei and Kahn's forces without it prior to this. Also, Sub-Zero only had the Medallion during Deadly Alliance, as Frost took it during these events.

And this is sorta reaching, but Kui Liang could have the power to kill gods, even though he's not his older brother, he could have the potential to.


Yea I was speaking of the future, and then leapt into the past, should have made that more clear. my bad.

Yea I know he got it after defeating Sektor AFTER Sektor defeated the Lin Kuei Grandmaster aka his father. I would assume Sektor had the medallion momentarily and Subzero still managed to gain the upper hand, but that has never been made crystal clear.

Wouldn't be a good Sektor fan If I did not know that onetongue
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Spider804
03/27/2011 02:39 AM (UTC)
0
What kinda power would the Dragon Medallion give a cyborg, anyway? lol
Avatar
Big_Speck
03/27/2011 02:39 AM (UTC)
0
Casselman Wrote:
Big_Speck Wrote:
Casselman Wrote:
Its hard to understand, because we don't really know where Subzero would end up without the Medallion. He could have barely beat Sektor OR he could have raped him. We just don't know where his natural power lays on the scale without the medallion. He has to be up there though for his battles through MK2-MK4. Hes gotta be mid-high tier at least.

Why was he chosen after Sektor and Cyrax though? I wonder if it was Rank, or if another tactical decision was made. Maybe Warriors born without special powers were chosen at first because..

Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
We hear NOTHING of Sektor or Cyrax having special powers in the vignettes or Endings.


Then after success, maybe they looked to people WITH powers.


I always thought that in Sub-Zero's second MK:DA bio that he only got the dragon Medallion after defeating Sektor. We also have the fact that he managed to fight off the Lin Kuei and Kahn's forces without it prior to this. Also, Sub-Zero only had the Medallion during Deadly Alliance, as Frost took it during these events.

And this is sorta reaching, but Kui Liang could have the power to kill gods, even though he's not his older brother, he could have the potential to.


Yea I was speaking of the future, and then leapt into the past, should have made that more clear. my bad.


Eh no worries, that sorta thing happens a lot on the internet. Especially when these discussions get heated because we can't wait to get our hands on MK9.
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RazorsEdge701
03/27/2011 02:44 AM (UTC)
0
Spider804 Wrote:
What kinda power would the Dragon Medallion give a cyborg, anyway? lol


Sektor becomes a satellite that can shoot homing missiles at any spot on Earth, lol.
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Spider804
03/27/2011 02:46 AM (UTC)
0
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Spider804 Wrote:
What kinda power would the Dragon Medallion give a cyborg, anyway? lol


Sektor becomes a satellite that can shoot homing missiles at any spot on Earth, lol.

I'd hate to be Sub-Zero or the Special Forces, lol.
Avatar
Big_Speck
03/27/2011 02:47 AM (UTC)
0
Spider804 Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Spider804 Wrote:
What kinda power would the Dragon Medallion give a cyborg, anyway? lol


Sektor becomes a satellite that can shoot homing missiles at any spot on Earth, lol.

I'd hate to be Sub-Zero or the Special Forces, lol.


The Ice Clone makes for great decoys.

Or Sub-Zero could disguise himself as Sektor's/Soundwave's Refrigerator.
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Tekunin_General
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03/27/2011 02:47 AM (UTC)
0
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Spider804 Wrote:
What kinda power would the Dragon Medallion give a cyborg, anyway? lol


Sektor becomes a satellite that can shoot homing missiles at any spot on Earth, lol.


Lol.

In all honesty, It would likely just make him stronger and faster. I don't think it would effect technology.
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Spider804
03/27/2011 02:50 AM (UTC)
0
Sektor becoming ROTF Soundwave with missiles actually doesn't sound that bad. Or does it? lol
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-Brad-
03/27/2011 02:50 AM (UTC)
0
Casselman Wrote:
Reason: If the Lin Kuei are at the point where they are certain this will be successful enough to implement ANY of these top-dogs into it. They must be very confident in the outcome. and If so, Why not take two Top-tier clan members? I would imagine Bi-Han to be the most powerful Lin Kuei at this point because of MK:M and his task during MK1.

I read your whole post, but my response is to your reason.
There's something very simple that I think shakes this, and that is it's unknown who the Lin Kuei actually wanted.
It may not even have been a matter of who, rather they would have gathered any and all Lin Kuei available.
Why I ranked Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) highest after Sub-Zero (Bi-Han), is because the impression of the Sub-Zero name being an honorable legacy. I don't think Tundra (Kuai Liang) would be allowed to become Sub-Zero if he wasn't a worthy replacement, the illusion is they're supposed to be the same ultimate enigma.
In that same vein, Smoke was the one assigned with him in the old timeline according to most sites, on the Shang Tsung assassination mission, but I'll admit I'm not sure where the source is. But If they were assigned together, that's a major showing of the Lin Kuei trusting. Plus abilities have to come into play in rank somewhere, and a man that can literally become and disappear in Smoke is one I'd see very favorable for a clan of stealth.
Cyrax is the wild card for me, since there's less information about him with the Lin Kuei, besides him being a badass African warrior with chi.
As I've said before Sektor having no motive into wanting to become a cyborg is insanity. That sounds logical and compelling him volunteering spawns from jealously. What's more betrayal than having his own father choose others for tasks. Especially after being unquestionably loyal. That not only gives a method to the madness, that explains his whole rivalry and eventually killing his father.
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RazorsEdge701
03/27/2011 02:55 AM (UTC)
0
-Brad- Wrote:
As I've said before Sektor having no motive into wanting to become a cyborg is insanity.


What if he's just into Transhumanism?
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Spider804
03/27/2011 02:57 AM (UTC)
0
That's a real thing?! lol
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RazorsEdge701
03/27/2011 02:58 AM (UTC)
0
Spider804 Wrote:
That's a real thing?! lol


Well it's a theoretical philosophy. Obviously, real world cybernetics aren't yet anywhere close to advanced enough for anyone to try going out and getting their limbs upgraded Jax-style.
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Spider804
03/27/2011 02:59 AM (UTC)
0
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
Spider804 Wrote:
That's a real thing?! lol


Well it's a philosophy. Obviously, real world cybernetics aren't yet advanced enough for anyone to try going out and getting their limbs upgraded Jax-style.

Awesome, lol.
Bring it.
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Tekunin_General
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03/27/2011 03:25 AM (UTC)
0
-Brad- Wrote:
Casselman Wrote:
Reason: If the Lin Kuei are at the point where they are certain this will be successful enough to implement ANY of these top-dogs into it. They must be very confident in the outcome. and If so, Why not take two Top-tier clan members? I would imagine Bi-Han to be the most powerful Lin Kuei at this point because of MK:M and his task during MK1.

I read your whole post, but my response is to your reason.
There's something very simple that I think shakes this, and that is it's unknown who the Lin Kuei actually wanted.
It may not even have been a matter of who, rather they would have gathered any and all Lin Kuei available.
Why I ranked Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) highest after Sub-Zero (Bi-Han), is because the impression of the Sub-Zero name being an honorable legacy. I don't think Tundra (Kuai Liang) would be allowed to become Sub-Zero if he wasn't a worthy replacement, the illusion is they're supposed to be the same ultimate enigma.
In that same vein, Smoke was the one assigned with him in the old timeline according to most sites, on the Shang Tsung assassination mission, but I'll admit I'm not sure where the source is. But If they were assigned together, that's a major showing of the Lin Kuei trusting. Plus abilities have to come into play in rank somewhere, and a man that can literally become and disappear in Smoke is one I'd see very favorable for a clan of stealth.
Cyrax is the wild card for me, since there's less information about him with the Lin Kuei, besides him being a badass African warrior with chi.
As I've said before Sektor having no motive into wanting to become a cyborg is insanity. That sounds logical and compelling him volunteering spawns from jealously. What's more betrayal than having his own father choose others for tasks. Especially after being unquestionably loyal. That not only gives a method to the madness, that explains his whole rivalry and eventually killing his father.


Interesting, I have to respect your opinion here But I have a few questions:

1- If Kuai Liang was the ideal replacement for Bi-Han, Once Bi-Han met his demise, Wouldn't the Lin Kuei Immediately look to take that of which is most powerful, and increase that power in order to impose their certainly strong reputation of strength and dominance? And Kuai Liang being the equivalent to (or close to) Bi-Han, Why wouldn't the Lin Kuei choose him immediately?

This idea is even more re-enforced by the Lin Kuei's idealistics and ambitions at the time. If they allowed Kuai Liang to assume Sub-Zero's codename, it was certainly to strike fear into all who would oppose them(pending he was "allowed" and did not assume it himself). Now if this was the case, would automation not be absolutely demanded and enforced at that point? To strike fear is one thing. But to have somebody return from death AND be automated would strike pants shitting fear into everybody whoever encounters a Lin Kuei Cyborg. Thus increasing their intimidation and reputation factors by HUGE percentages. They could even start word of them being able to bring back any dead using automation, giving them the "invincible" title.

The way I see it, if he was up there, he would have been the first. Regardless of anything.

2- Not so much a question, but something I feel is being considered to only be possible through jealousy when I feel strongly that it is a very small chance of that.

Being in a clan all his life and knowing since childhood, the ways of the Lin Kuei and the "weakness" of emotion. I do not ever see Jealousy coming into play. He would have been desensitized to the ways of ruthlessness and lack of emotion. Only the strong survive and the clan and all its ambitions are you and you and all your ambitions are the clan. Knowing this and knowing his Bio from MK2011. He strikes me as the ideal prospect for their evil, ruthless ways. I do not see the Grandmaster having any favouritism towards Sektor as he is the Lin Kuei grandmaster. The mentality of the clan and all its ambitions are imposed by him. These are his ideals and he would recognize that the emotions are that of which he has forced out of his clan, and would immediately change it.

Sektor having the history he has with the atmosphere that has surrounded him since birth, I see the only factors at trying to be #1 in Rank being only that, the ambition to be the best, or a matter of competition with Sub-zero driven by that exact ambition. Jealousy does not fit the Lin Kuei or Sektor...At all. Everything he has grown to be has likely seen hundreds of grown men killed for such emotions or trivial desires to be others. Because at that point, it is no longer of the clan but of the individual. Which again, does not work.
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RazorsEdge701
03/27/2011 03:37 AM (UTC)
0
In the original timeline, the Automation process didn't begin until AFTER MK2. In MK2, the first game that Kuai Liang assumes the Sub-Zero mantle, his story was that he was GIVEN the name and Bi-Han's unfinished mission to complete. And after the tournament, they returned to HQ to find the cyborg process either just beginning or Sektor and Cyrax were automated while they were away in Outworld and they're just now finding out about it.

In the new timeline, there is no assassination mission to finish, the Lin Kuei were at MK1 because Shang hired them to eliminate good guys from the tourney. Kuai Liang TAKES his brother's mantle to honor him, he and Smoke set out on their own to avenge Bi-Han, disobeying Lin Kuei orders to stay at HQ. Also, the automation process is in the works as early as during the first tournament, and Sektor and Cyrax are turned into cyborgs early enough to travel to Outworld and capture the other two DURING MK2 instead of well after.

So make of all that what you will.

Also note that Sektor was the first prototype, and being a prototype is risky business. Usually you wanna do it to someone expendable, not your loyal son, y'know, in case the process doesn't work and they just die on the operating table. A dude has to have serious ambition to stand up and raise his hand to be first in line for that sort of thing.
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Spider804
03/27/2011 03:40 AM (UTC)
0
Why did Kuai Liang have to be so brash? smh lol
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-Brad-
03/27/2011 03:50 AM (UTC)
0
I'll admit I've read bits and pieces on the new story, so it may have changed.
Dealing with the old timeline, the Lin Kuei's priorities were unknown, they could have wanted Sub-Zero first, but he's unavailable for whatever reason, (Shang Tsung's assassination).
I'm not sure if jealously is the exact word I was looking for, more so resentment. What's actually coming to mind is Lex Luthor (Sektor) to Superman (Sub-Zero). Take that however, laugh if you want. :P
Lex does everything in his power to be the best, yet is overshadowed, causing a deep seeded hatred and quest for power.
I agree with the emotionless view, that is until Sektor can't prove he's the best, driving him completely mad. Plus add to that self entitlement issues with his father.
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Spider804
03/27/2011 03:52 AM (UTC)
0
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I
Also note that Sektor was the first prototype, and being a prototype is risky business. Usually you wanna do it to someone expendable, not your loyal son, y'know, in case the process doesn't work and they just die on the operating table. A dude has to have serious ambition to stand up and raise his hand to be first in line for that sort of thing.

Sektor sure had some BRASS Balls to do that, didn't he? lol
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Big_Speck
03/27/2011 04:23 AM (UTC)
0
-Brad- Wrote:
I'll admit I've read bits and pieces on the new story, so it may have changed.
Dealing with the old timeline, the Lin Kuei's priorities were unknown, they could have wanted Sub-Zero first, but he's unavailable for whatever reason, (Shang Tsung's assassination).
I'm not sure if jealously is the exact word I was looking for, more so resentment. What's actually coming to mind is Lex Luthor (Sektor) to Superman (Sub-Zero). Take that however, laugh if you want. :P
Lex does everything in his power to be the best, yet is overshadowed, causing a deep seeded hatred and quest for power.
I agree with the emotionless view, that is until Sektor can't prove he's the best, driving him completely mad. Plus add to that self entitlement issues with his father.


The Superman/Luthor comparison works very well on a whole ton of levels. And that's coming from a guy who's read comics his whole life.
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HarryPotter
03/27/2011 06:24 AM (UTC)
0
you guys are clueless... Scorpion is the highest ranking lin quei

1. scorpion
2. ermac
3. sub zero
5. reiko
get it right, also ermac is grandmaster, and becomes sektor as scorpion becomes cyrax.
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daryui
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About Me
03/27/2011 06:26 AM (UTC)
0
HarryPotter Wrote:
you guys are clueless... Scorpion is the highest ranking lin quei

1. scorpion
2. ermac
3. sub zero
5. reiko
get it right, also ermac is grandmaster, and becomes sektor as scorpion becomes cyrax.


This post has so much fail, I can't take it as a joke.
Avatar
HarryPotter
03/27/2011 06:31 AM (UTC)
0
daryui Wrote:
HarryPotter Wrote:
you guys are clueless... Scorpion is the highest ranking lin quei

1. scorpion
2. ermac
3. sub zero
5. reiko
get it right, also ermac is grandmaster, and becomes sektor as scorpion becomes cyrax.


This post has so much fail, I can't take it as a joke.


Then switch scorpion and ermac around instead of trolling me.
Avatar
ErmacYou
03/27/2011 01:20 PM (UTC)
0
Spoilers: (Highlight to reveal)
since kuai lang becomes automated,why have the name cyber subzero? he deserted the clan which is treason right.that codename would be considered dishonorable and striicken from the lin kuei record books i would like to think. confused
Avatar
ErmacYou
03/27/2011 01:25 PM (UTC)
0
Casselman Wrote:
-Brad- Wrote:
Casselman Wrote:
Reason: If the Lin Kuei are at the point where they are certain this will be successful enough to implement ANY of these top-dogs into it. They must be very confident in the outcome. and If so, Why not take two Top-tier clan members? I would imagine Bi-Han to be the most powerful Lin Kuei at this point because of MK:M and his task during MK1.

I read your whole post, but my response is to your reason.
There's something very simple that I think shakes this, and that is it's unknown who the Lin Kuei actually wanted.
It may not even have been a matter of who, rather they would have gathered any and all Lin Kuei available.
Why I ranked Sub-Zero (Kuai Liang) highest after Sub-Zero (Bi-Han), is because the impression of the Sub-Zero name being an honorable legacy. I don't think Tundra (Kuai Liang) would be allowed to become Sub-Zero if he wasn't a worthy replacement, the illusion is they're supposed to be the same ultimate enigma.
In that same vein, Smoke was the one assigned with him in the old timeline according to most sites, on the Shang Tsung assassination mission, but I'll admit I'm not sure where the source is. But If they were assigned together, that's a major showing of the Lin Kuei trusting. Plus abilities have to come into play in rank somewhere, and a man that can literally become and disappear in Smoke is one I'd see very favorable for a clan of stealth.
Cyrax is the wild card for me, since there's less information about him with the Lin Kuei, besides him being a badass African warrior with chi.
As I've said before Sektor having no motive into wanting to become a cyborg is insanity. That sounds logical and compelling him volunteering spawns from jealously. What's more betrayal than having his own father choose others for tasks. Especially after being unquestionably loyal. That not only gives a method to the madness, that explains his whole rivalry and eventually killing his father.


Interesting, I have to respect your opinion here But I have a few questions:

1- If Kuai Liang was the ideal replacement for Bi-Han, Once Bi-Han met his demise, Wouldn't the Lin Kuei Immediately look to take that of which is most powerful, and increase that power in order to impose their certainly strong reputation of strength and dominance? And Kuai Liang being the equivalent to (or close to) Bi-Han, Why wouldn't the Lin Kuei choose him immediately?

This idea is even more re-enforced by the Lin Kuei's idealistics and ambitions at the time. If they allowed Kuai Liang to assume Sub-Zero's codename, it was certainly to strike fear into all who would oppose them(pending he was "allowed" and did not assume it himself). Now if this was the case, would automation not be absolutely demanded and enforced at that point? To strike fear is one thing. But to have somebody return from death AND be automated would strike pants shitting fear into everybody whoever encounters a Lin Kuei Cyborg. Thus increasing their intimidation and reputation factors by HUGE percentages. They could even start word of them being able to bring back any dead using automation, giving them the "invincible" title.

The way I see it, if he was up there, he would have been the first. Regardless of anything.

2- Not so much a question, but something I feel is being considered to only be possible through jealousy when I feel strongly that it is a very small chance of that.

Being in a clan all his life and knowing since childhood, the ways of the Lin Kuei and the "weakness" of emotion. I do not ever see Jealousy coming into play. He would have been desensitized to the ways of ruthlessness and lack of emotion. Only the strong survive and the clan and all its ambitions are you and you and all your ambitions are the clan. Knowing this and knowing his Bio from MK2011. He strikes me as the ideal prospect for their evil, ruthless ways. I do not see the Grandmaster having any favouritism towards Sektor as he is the Lin Kuei grandmaster. The mentality of the clan and all its ambitions are imposed by him. These are his ideals and he would recognize that the emotions are that of which he has forced out of his clan, and would immediately change it.

Sektor having the history he has with the atmosphere that has surrounded him since birth, I see the only factors at trying to be #1 in Rank being only that, the ambition to be the best, or a matter of competition with Sub-zero driven by that exact ambition. Jealousy does not fit the Lin Kuei or Sektor...At all. Everything he has grown to be has likely seen hundreds of grown men killed for such emotions or trivial desires to be others. Because at that point, it is no longer of the clan but of the individual. Which again, does not work.

you make the lin kuei sound like modern day spartans lol
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