Yeah a flame might move in that way but it wouldn't stay in that direction for long. So yes in a freeze frame it's a bit annoying... looks like a handlebar to me



Sure I can understand that. But what do you think how long it would take you to finish the game that way? Several years I'd figure.



Yeah, it's quite obvious that you come from a professional background. That's why I said supervising, I mean aren't there parts in the process that don't require an insane level of skill and are at the same time very time consuming?

And I dunno if you'd really knock on every MK fanbase door there is, I'm sure you'll find some people that might come close to your skill level.

After all MKP wasn't done by one man but a team also.



Ahha... not a team player ehh. Well good luck. But really, what kind of time frame would you see as realistic?



Maybe I'll come up with something later.

Cheers.

MKO users that I think can fit the bill:

timsmk = obvious talent for design, programming and animation.

Aculeous = Outstanding artistic ability.

K1LLKANO = Above average artistic ability.

There are others..., but I think they have better things to do with their time.

I think a writer would come in handy too.

You know have somebody make the chara bios and the storyline.

Would be cool to have an awesome story to go with the awesome graphics and gameplay.


As for them having time... well just ask them if they want to or not

What I'm doing here is very different from MKP's goal.

Their art work is minimal, my art work is major. Making everything from scratch, not editing existing sprites.

If anything, the programmers for MKP are doing a great job, and I could use their skills.

Still I want to learn how to do the programming and all my self. If I don't know something I want to learn it, not have someone else do it for me. At least for this type of project, where I have the option of doing so.

The guys working on MKbloodstorm are doing an amazing job also and I could use their knowledge.

For this type of thing I can go to Mugen web sites and ask for help though, so I have options.

edit

OK, looks like I figured out how I'm going to make the flames.



Someone in another thread asked, are you going to make the old moves and the new moves?


Reply:
As for his moves, I'm making up new ones for the most part and new animations for some of his old ones I may use, like the fireballs. His MKA run teleport is pretty cool too, so I'll probably add that, or something similar to it.

I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with his morphing yet.

I'm thinking of not limiting it to other characters. It may be his demon form or something different like that. Remember Orchid's tiger transformation in Killer Instinct?

Stuff like that....

Woah.... that fire looks great for a test. But parts of it look more like a gasoline explosion than fire.




Of course it is... that's why I suggested teamwork. Cause it is a lot of work if you'd want to finish it. I know you did say that you wanted to do this mainly as an exercise but it would be a shame if the game would never be completed because your learning process is done but the game's not finished.



Sure if you want to do all that on your own in order to learn that's cool. You're very motivated... props for that.

What I meant with sharing the work would be something like this: You make the animation and final chara designs. But once the actual design of the character is done drawing all the sprites over the animated 3D model is just work work work. And that's where others could help out, leaving the style of the character as it is of course. Copying an already finished sprite shouldn't be too hard to do.

I understand what you are saying. When I find something simple I can use help with I'll put it up for grabs. That is if I can't do it my self real quick.


The sprite animations are pretty easy to clean up after a 3D render. I can set a Photoshop action script to do all the work for me if it's something basic.

Wow that's really good news. I didn't really know how the process works but that sounds really sweet. cause that means thatit won't take as long as I assumed and I also guess you'll be able to finish the game... sweet.

But it makes total sense... doing these detailed 3D models must have more benfits than just functioning as a refernce for drawing every single sprite by hand, in order to justify the workload that goes into their creation.

Anyway still way better than having to draw every single sprite, which would be a total bitch.





I really like the idea of adding short special moves triggered via simple diagonal direction input + one button like in Tekken.


I don't know how hard it is to progrm those but I'd also love reversals, not parries I'm talking full blown reversals here . That would totally rock.


Maybe you could also hold something like a background design contest from which you choose the ones you like the best and then work them over a bit if that's necessary in order for the style to fit.


Another thing I'd like to see is a variation of the uppercutting through the ceiling from MK 3. How about a few stages where you can stomp your opponent through the floor into a stage below. That could be done by adding a special throw where you slam your opponent on the ground and then jump on his chest ( not manually jumping but within the throw animation. Kinda like the throws in tekken where you also can follow up some of the throws by entering another button combo while the first one is still being executed )


Something I personally wouldn't want to see are specials that require you to keep a button pressed for two or three seconds cause I just hate those . But that's just my personal preference and I'm by no means a pro player.


Please don't add the dizzyness feature that you've mentioned. Instead of that you could add a bar that fills up like the "super special something" bars in SF Alpha. If the bar is full you can perform a character specific special. That special would come in different classes for different groups of characters.

1. Curse: Your opponent loses his abillity to block

2. Increased magic: You chara fires more fireballs at once or can perform multiple teleport uppercuts consecutively

3. Fighting rage: Your chara deals more damage and moves a bit faster

4. Healing spell: You chara regenerates your life bar or becomes invincible but deals only 60% damage

5. Super defense: Every block translates into a reversal

These would of course be limited to 15 or 20 seconds.



Definitely add hopping

Wall jumps for agile charas

Cartwheels and backflips (not for all charas... maybe even just one.... mmh maybe I'll map one out) would be cool too.
Esecially if you'd add specials that can only be performed out of the cartwheel/backflip motion ( Ever played Hagane for SNES? )




Yeah I guess you really are pretty alone on that front but because of that it's allthemore awesome that you do this man.

This has potential.

My suggestion: the "Roflcopter Kick".

If MK3's Animalities were like that I think we would take them a lot more seriously.

Watching it is mesmerising. It reminds me of when Jaffar turned into a snake in Aladdin.

Here's what I have so far for the button lay out and combo system. This will probably change as I think of new stuff and get some feed back.


4 attack button lay out like in King of Fighters.

1 2
3 4

Light punch Heavy punch

Light kick Heavy kick

Blocking is done by holding away like in most fighters.

Replace street fighter style repetitive poke combos with MK style combos.

Instead of doing jab, jab, jab..... you do elbow, right punch, left hook for example...

Neutral attacks change with distance from the opponent, more like in street fighter than MK in hit properties.

1 and 3 hit and block properties are close to street fighter weak hits. This will allow the longer MK style dial combos to have the range to connect.

2 and 4 hit and block properties are like Fierce attacks in Street fighter and the uppercut / round house in MK.

You have extra moves for each button, like in DOA, Tekken, Street fighter, MK.....etc.

The extra moves for the Light buttons are like chain attacks in KI and the extra moves in King of Fighters.

Heavy attacks may chain to Light attacks if they don't knock the opponent down and if you are left within range. It is easier to land longer combos going from Light to Heavy than Heavy to Light because of the push away from each hit.

Combos will have preset limits only for logical flow. If 2 attacks shouldn't flow together logically, I'll make them not be able to. Other Wise it's a free for all.

1 button combos are present and are like not finishing a combo in DOA. You won't knock the opponent down. It's more like chain combos in Street fighter = Guy. The number of hits possible with one button range from 1 to 4.

Combo enders like in MK = round house, Uppercut, Sweep etc. are done with the Heavy attack buttons. Same as with Street Fighter Fierce attacks, some may be able to chain in to special moves.

Weak attacks generally can chain in to special moves.

Doing 5-7....Hit combos requires the use of D.pad combinations with basic attacks. Like in KOF, and chain moves in KI2.

The Heavy attacks are used for popups and other combo extensions or starters like in MK4, also special moves like launchers in Tekken can be used.

You can do longer combos similar to super combos in KOF and street fighter, only that the first hit is the special command one, and the rest are like a normal combo input.

You have the ability to block moves while getting comboed, like parrying a super in STF3 3rd strike. You have to keep doing it, you can't hold block the whole time.

A super meter or something of the like can be used to enable a reversal or power block / parry. Works like the reversal in STFA3, but can be a combo starter or pretty much anything. It's basically like the parry in stf3, it lets you cancel in to any of your attacks like if you landed a regular punch in street fighter.

Not finishing a combo will leave you with properties of basic moves. Depending on the one used. For blocked moves, you may have frame advantage, disadvantage or be equal. For hits you will be equal or have frame advantage.

Word up......I'm transfixed. lol

We'd all be in trouble if there was some subliminal message about it..haha
---
Great job though Bleed. I always wondered what it'd take to make something like this from scratch. Now I at least get some insight.

Need ideas? Or is everything planned out already? Either way I enjoy seeing the process like this.

Post any ideas you have and want to post. Reading them will sometimes spark something in my mind and I'll branch off from there.

Amazingly executed, I cannot wait to see more from you. You should keep that concept character, it'll be great to see. As far as the alternate costumes, I don't beleive it is possible if you are using MUGEN as it goes based upon pre installed images. However, with the proper code it may be possible.

Shang Tsung's model: 4/5

The overall model is great but the texture lacks somewhat. Hopefully it improves overtime.

Motaro: 4/5

It does look like a flawless model and I can't wait to see what he looks like with a texture attached.

Ok. Here's a couple to consider right off the top of my head then.


Shang Tsung:

1. He's a sorcerer first right? Well, I believe sorcerers tend to stay away from hand to hand fighting. So I think he should have alot of specials, and things that sets the opponent up without touching them.

He's should have a fighting style, of course. But I think it works backwards for wizards//sorcerers//warlocks and the like. He should have moves that deceive the oppontent into believing he will hit them, like fully expressed bait special moves.
(like a fake fireball summon, quickly followed by a strong punch or kick)

2. He's a necromancer. Alot of the moves he uses could logically involve "commanding the dead". Or commanding inanimate objects(mainly dead things' spirits) to get at his opponent.

The snake is his symbol so, what you do with his commandments could "Exactly solidify" that symbol. He could logically command dead snakes, or snakes skins....ect

3. He is not Quan Chi or Shinnok. Quan Chi is(should be) defined by "a" mastery of necromancy. Portals, Bones, umm..."The living Dead", shadows even. Quan Chi spans beyond Shang Tsung because he isn't limited to spirits of a certain kind. Quan Chi doesn't need snakes because they are a lesser force than bones and portals. >> >> Whereas Shinnok, is the mastery of all Necromancy. Shinnok should be able to create a portal from nothing. Quan Chi can only access exsisting portals, however without help. Shang Tsung can't access them without assistance..a power boost...or being at full power and have like an "Open Sesame" type code. (ImO) Shinnok should tap Hell at will....well he should be able to tap into Heaven too. Necromancy is not limited to "bad things."

This portion is just to establish a "roof" for Shang Tsung really. But I have a very specific take on the sorcerers once we get into it.

4. Watch some stuff where a snake eats it's prey. "Fatality". When a snake snaps on it's prey it's always painful looking. Much more "awfull fate-like" when the snake is slowly digesting an animal. (kicking legs...ect)

The snake you rendered already looks like it could accomplish "Anaconda" fatalities. With the fire there too it's like, whoa.

I have more....I'm tired now though(lol). Be back later. Maybe you could tell me if any of that it feasible....or even reasonable to be trying to program as special moves.

layda

The only way I can think of doing an alternate character or costume right now is to have it be a 2nd option in the character select screen.


I can change the sprites and the palettes, but keep the same code, animations, collision boxes.

Rendering out all the animations again would require me changing the costume in 3ds.max and applying the same bones and animation. Then just render everything again.

It would take time to do that, but it would work.

===========================================

I don't think Mugen has a limit on special moves, so I can do as many as I want for shang.

Real flaming and green energy specials, using moves that can look like corpses flying around, the snake, a skull.....I can do all that.

I plan to have special moves be workable in to combos like in KI, so he may do a special move that leads to a running kick or a juggle like in MK3. It's heavy on both hand to hand and supernatural combat.

The fire snake will probably be able to move the opponent around, like Raiden's superman. Up to down, or across the screen to the wall.

Well, how about ideas for the fatalities???

Post anything, I'll pick and choose what I can do when I get to it.



Here is the fireball MK3 style, again made in photoshop.


The last part of the fire animation loops.

Maybe im being picky but I'd rather see it with its mouth open. It looks more idk menacing/demonic

Agreed, fixed... I updated same gif. file

If Kenshi is going to be in the game i have a good idea for a fatality.

Just focus on shang, I'm not trying to make a full game right now.

One thing at a time.

That point right there makes me think of another idea I had for Shang. Which is in the spectrum of his type of sorcery, but at the same time is a stretch to make convincing(might work better for a Quan Chi type character. Not to infer....I'm just sayin).

That being Vodoo. Vodoo doctors are very spiritual(good, but most commonly bad, like Shang or Quan), and are tightly woven in with necromancy, and they can visit "other plains of existence(portals, but they have to know where they are, and say some "abracadabra" to get it to work.).

Anyway, the way it kinda relates to being able to move around the opponent there, is that Shang doesn't need a "vodoo-doll" He already has the snakes and the skulls. Besides, it a great way to mask the difference between them. Same principal as like, a puppetmaster, without the object of manipulation. Could just chalk it up to "magic" for Shang Tsung.

I think that so far, the pinnincale of Shang Tsungs power is in his ability to cyphen the soul from a person after they are weak, or dieing.

You could exploit that further, and have him manipulate the opponents spirit while still in action. "Green aura" or whatever might come over the person. Maybe have Shang throw the opponent, making them hit the screen?

--------

Another quick idea is about his fireballs. He could appear to control "the falling star" , or a comet. I also liked that he always "manifests" his fire from himself too. Mastery however, could be exploited by this idea. Still being careful not to carry him into Eragon, or Gandalf, or whoever...
-------

All in all though, I think Shang Tsung should be the biggest nuisance. lol But it's because he is so tough to get to.
______


Ok, one more idea for a special move, heheh.

You know how Shang Tsung, in the earlier games could morph? Well, since I've learned that it's technically unreasonable to have him to that kind of thing now in 3D.... Maybe he could have a "stun".

It might look like a he "rid himself" of one of the spirits he stole, but at his opponent. Hm, kinda like the morph move looks in the MkSM intro vid(1:22)....but green energy is sort of like, launched at his opponent, instead of turning himself into someone else.

You know, after watching that vid again, I realized that my point about him "having access" to a portal, and speaking an activation code was portrayed too(3:18). More good stuff from MkSm that I didn't really recognize was there.

I might make some new chants or sayings for him in Spanish, and I'm making custom sound effects for him too. See if I can put out something decent.

Made one for his fireball that I posted earlier, using a free audio program I found online called Audacity. Lets you record, cut, add filters etc. It's pretty useful for being free.

The sound below was made with some recordings of my voice plus some edits.


fireball_1.wav

It's not super high quality, but close enough. I can clean the clicking sound at the end. I'll maybe try and boost it a little, make it more intense.
edit: New version
fireball_2.wav

This is something others can help with too, but be careful......people might think there's something wrong with you, making weird sounds and stuff.