Actually, there is 2 Sides to every story...

There's yours and Zents side (Against WCW)
There's Shibita (Sorry fros spelling)'s side (Pro WCW)
Then there is the truth...

And the Truth is that WCW Made many Mistakes, but so did WWE.

WWE's argument is that "Oh, were still around. We win" Thats not entirly true. ECW isn't around anymore and i can think of a ton of people who would rather watch old ECW than either WCW or WWE. WCW Got so caught up in trying to one up WWE that it pissed off the Fans. All the twists were just to much for our tiny minds to handle. However, thanks to M. Night Slamamamamalamalamaklajsnmfrla, we now except twists, so i don't know how they would be recieved in todays light.

Another argument is WCW stole from WWE. While true, it's also leaving out the fact that EVERY COMPANY STEALS FROM ANOTHER!!! WWE stole the idea of Hardcore Wrestling from ECW, which probably got the idea from Japan. Lets talk about some of the things that WWE stole from WCW

Edge
HHH
Cruiserweight division (I mean the principal of the Division, not the people in it. They took the idea)
Big Show

Sure, the list isn't as long as the one WCW has for WWE and ECW, but saying that WWE never took anoyone from anybody is ignorance, since Hulk Hogan was the top star is AWA before WWE bought him over. People say that Bichof was an ass because he "Talent Poched", but WWE is just as guilty.

WCW's Trash gimmicks include:
The Yeti
The Shockmaster
Glacier (Who i thought was awesome)
Mortis
Wrath (When he was in Blood Runs Cold)
Berlin
The MIA
Disco Inferno
The Deciple
And The Renegade (whom i also liked)

Lets look at WWE's Dumpster, shall we:
Bastion Booger
Duke The Dumpster
Big Dick Johnson
The Headbangers (Whom i thought were awesome)
The Gobbldy Gooker
The Goon
Issac Yankem, DDS
IRS (Oh no, it's attack of the evil ACCOUNTANT!!)
Doink The Clown (Good, not evil. Evil Donik was Genious)
DDP's Stalker Character
Kane as a Rapist
John Cena's Current Gimmick (The Heel Rapper Gimmick was better)
Hillbilly Jim (Though he did kick ass)
And Billy And Chuck

So the truth is that WCW and WWE are both Great, but also taht WCW and WWE suck complete ass. Meaning that neither side is better than the other

So, stop complaining all you people!

congrats, with this one good post with so many good points all of which i already knew but that Shibata needs to study, you've just solved the arguement. this little debate was good, just the sort of thing this site needs to keep exciting

you can't really bring up bad gimmicks from the 80's/early 90's though. Back in the day, they were a dime a dozen. The business was just different. That was just par for the course.

And even now you can't include every bad storyline or character that happens. Not every idea can be good. But angles that sucked yet still got pushed, like the Billy & Chuck thing, those you can include as terrible ideas.

and the WWE right now is, like anything that's successful and lacks competition, admittedly not at its best. and TNA is not big enough competition to light a fire under its ass and motivate it to do any better, so... And the reality is, even if TNA did get good enough to pose a serious threat, WWE would probably try to beat it through money (ie buying away talent) instead of improving their product.

Dudes. My point hasn't been that WCW was significantly better than WWE. The point I've been trying to make is that WWE and WCW have been both as bad (or "good") as each other. So it looks like, by the sound of things, we've mostly agreed all along.

Uh no. WWE isn't and never has been as bad as WCW.

WWE would never waste their money on TNA, simply because TNA only has like maybe two top wrestlers that WWE would even be remotely interested in, and those two are AJ Styles and Samoa Joe. the rest of TNA's roster is made up of WWE rejects and guys who can barely get over in TNA and would epically fail in WWE



cool, then i guess it's settled then. any way, moving on, everyone's got to check out WrestleCrap, that site is so freaking good, there's some funny stuff on there

Alright I've been going back and fourth on this on Youtube .. But here we go The wrestling business goes in cycles. Think back to the hero's of wrestling Hogan (over rated imo) and Flair Sgt. Slaughter Macho Man Ultimate Warrior Bret Hart all these guys were our favorites as kids well mine at least. Then as time went on we got sick of the "Say your prayers and take your vitamins" as we grew up into the GEN X attitude of the 90's we demanded a new hero a young new fresh hero with attitude. Much like us growing into teens with rebellious attitudes and not excepting "The Mans" way of life. So the business changed as well. We saw new faces like a Stone Cold like a Rocky Miavia or a Triple H or a Kevin Nash or a Hollywood Hogan or a Scott Hall.

Look at it like this. We all grew up on Super Mario then as we got older we lusted for blood Ala Mortal Kombat or Killer Instinct things were geared toward a certain attitude. You couldn't turn on the television and not see a Ren and Stimpy or Beavis and Butt-Head or a music video showing tits and guns on MTV no less. Movies were all action and shooting guns and corny one liners or for gods sake deodorant commercials with bright fluorescent Green colors and the letter X in them.

Then as we all grew up the business changed again. As most people would passively say

"oh yea WWF I was into it when Stone Cold was beating the shit out of Vince McMahon or DX or the n.w.o those were the coolest times of my life but whatever. I just grew out of it."

Soooo the business is going back to where it started aiming its product to kids hence the new PG rating. With guys like John Cena and Jeff Hardy or Rey Mysterio being geared towards the little kids watching the show. The industry simply forgets about the previous generation that lived for it. I certainly remember coming home from school doing my homework real fast slammin in my WCW/n.W.o Revenge game into my N64 then my WWF WarZone until either RAW or Nitro started and being blown out of my couch from excitement and adrenaline. Who could forget the minutes leading up to a WWF RAW and then bam

"In 80 Countrys in 7 languages To over a half Billion homes each week the World Wrestling Federation the world wide leader in Sports Entertainment" then hearing Thorn in your Eye.

"Its my life in box and charred to beat
Taking Chalk in the arm is the soul of me
You want Fire see me lay face down

What has caused the Thorn in your EYE"

Then the Pyro and Jr's intro.

Who could forget that . And yeah I have allll that memorized.

And now as a lot of us have grown and moved on they just went back to the beginning of the cycle. I bet you money that given time the pendulum will swing back and these kids who cheer John Cena will smarten up as we did and boo the hell out of him and there ratings plummet they will realize what they have to do. I hope that they regain the F and drop the E cause it really sucks.

So heres a chant to start

"Get the F drop the E dump Cena! "

And in closing I have 1 Question?

Are you READY?

damn dude, you've got to lay off the cafine or somethin'! thanks for all that which we all knew!

Yeah maybe ha ha. its a 5 hour energy shot im comin down from it ha ha. but i just wanted 2 put my two cents in. or maybe it was more like $1.50 ?

I'm not going to read all that. If you want, make a way shorter version and I'll gladly read it.

i like spirited conversations in this thread, it's what's help keep it from growing stale

friends, there is a new Eddie Guererro DVD in the works, so go to this link to see the match listings for each disk in this 3-disk set:

http://www.twnpnews.com/messages/20717.shtml

I'll try and paraphrase I was rambling thanks to a 5 hour energy shot that kept me up all night.. Anyways what I was saying is that the wrestling business works like a pendulum. look at like this when we were kids we looked up to the babyfaces like Hogan Bret Warrior and as we got older and grew into rebellious teenagers sort of Rage Against the Machine attitude we all wanted to say "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me!!" and as we matured so did the business and we saw new hero's like Austin Rock DX n.w.o and as that played itself out most of my friends for example stopped watching it. And since most ppl don't watch it and they lost there competition they aimed there show towards kids sort of the Second "New Generation" Era. With Jeff Rey Cena they are just doing what the Federation was doing in the late 80's early 90's . But ppl say those were the bad times in the WWF man if thats true than than it REALLY sucks now a days.

The only reason i watch WWE is because im intrigued in what Kane is doing I like "The" Brian Kendrick Taker and the HBK Jericho feud.

Does any know the Theme song at unforgiven this year?

"Rock Out" by Motorhead

No Mercy is:

"All Nightmare Long" by Metallica

COOL TNA 4 LIFE

I didn't know Rock Out was a new song...

Thanks!!!!

take it up with WWE, all i know is that's the song they used




you're welcome, if ya need more, just ask, also, this site works good:

http://www.xylotthemes.com/home

poor dlo brown they brought him back to fight on heat and get beat by santino..lol

um, there is no more Heat dude!

any way, here's the updated card for No Mercy:

Updated Card For Sunday's WWE No Mercy PPV:

World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match
Chris Jericho defends against Shawn Michaels
Winner: hopefully Micheals

WWE Championship Match
Triple H defends against Jeff Hardy
Winner: Triple H retains

ECW Championship Match
Matt Hardy defends against Mark Henry
Winner: new champion Mark Henry

Batista vs. JBL
Winner: Batista

Big Show vs. Undertaker
Winner: Taker, but this could go either way, considering the stuff that's been said online about Taker's "injuries"

Women's Championship Match
Beth Phoenix defends against Candice Michelle
Winner: Beth retains

Rey Mysterio vs. Kane
Winner: this also could go either way, but here's hoping Rey wins by DQ or something, or else he'd better have another mask underneath

Jericho beats Michaels.

Triple H beats Hardy.

Show beats Taker.

Hardy beats Henry.

Rey beats Kane.

Shawn Michaels wins

Triple H retains

Matt Hardy retains

Batista kicks JBL's ass

Undertaker wins

Candice new women's champion

Rey Misterio wins

hm, some people agree, and other's disagree about the outcomes of the matches, cool. so, is anyone going to bother seeing the ppv? i myself plan to go to my local Cineplex Theatre to watch it as i've been doing the last few PPVs

Gotta love the ''all babyfaces win'' predictions.
Ignorance is such great bliss!