Ok, Thank you for the breakdown. I honestly thought I was lost but I wasn't. I am simply new to this site, (although I don't know why since I have been an MK fan from the beggining) but I have played enough and have read enough posts to understand the lingo and where everyone is coming from. I personally like Vers posts.

Hsu Hao = fast, safe jabs...37% SBC
Reptile = Hung Gar f+4, Crab b+3 or b+2 mixup = dead meat
Frost = garbage without infinite

PAL version Tier List top 3

#1 Shang Tsung
(weak physically, but it your more than half a screen away from Shang and he catches you with 1 3D fire attack your fucked. Shang is the best because he is superb defensively and his magically attacks are almost too powerful for the game.)

#2 Scorpion
(Great player, but more overated than anything because hes the daddy. His spear is a great move but I've found it dosen't connect after most combo's and leaves you open for a long time if its blocked. I believe Scorpion shines because os his ninja sword style)

#3 Bo Rai Cho - Raiden - Hsu Hao - Kung Lao
No basic order. Rank these characters to your own style of play.

hiphoppa Wrote: PAL version Tier List top 3 #1 Shang Tsung (weak physically, but it your more than half a screen away from Shang and he catches you with 1 3D fire attack your fucked. Shang is the best because he is superb defensively and his magically attacks are almost too powerful for the game.) #2 Scorpion (Great player, but more overated than anything because hes the daddy. His spear is a great move but I've found it dosen't connect after most combo's and leaves you open for a long time if its blocked. I believe Scorpion shines because os his ninja sword style) #3 Bo Rai Cho - Raiden - Hsu Hao - Kung Lao No basic order. Rank these characters to your own style of play.

You put some thought into this but I don't think you're correct. The only thing that really makes a difference for the PAL tier list is the absence of Frost's infinites.

Scorpion is still #1, I think you focus too much on his spear move and imo his ninja sword style is his worst (not that Scorpion has any *bad* styles). Scorpion is definitely not overrated, he's overpowered. Check out earlier postings in this thread (and others) as to why.

The chars you mention are definitely top tier but Tsung is certainly not #1. He can be kept at bay.

And what is Raiden doing there? Sure his staff is great and all but he lacks finesse and has no killer moves that aren't predictable (except perhaps his d+4 in jiu-jitsu...).

Peace,
Q

well because of my computer ill only be around here ocasionally. Its cool to see that vanquier is becoming better in MKDA and he did a good job explaining why Sub isnt as good as Hsu Hao,Frost and reptile.

Everything Vanquier said is correct. Sub can take all 3 of those characters, but its always hard works. Sub-Zero vs Reptile is almost impossible,though. Sub has to space,turtle, and set up moves just to get them down to 50% life, while they're threatening you with 40% combos that are hella easy to set up.

Frost is iffy IMO. I think frost is hella overrated, and I actually think shes mid tier(around number 12-15) like Sub-Zero, but there is no doubt in my mind that Hsu Hao and Reptile are a lot better than Sub-Zero. Heh..take it from me, Sub-Zero is my best characte..not to mention my favorite vg character ever : ), but the truth is the truth. Ah wellz, im sure they'll tone him up for mk6

Ah Vers, long time no see! WB!

I agree on Frost. I liked her in the beginning and I'm sure that, ahem, wintered Frost players will have a very easy time winning against n00bs but if you see her ground freeze coming then it's just a repeating show of the same old tricks. Frost is capable of developing long juggles (discounting her infinite that doesn't exist on PAL) but there are characters that can juggle better and with potentially more damage. Repeating a full style branch over and over gets a little dull for the fingers :p.

I'm seeing her drop little by little down the list as I continue to become more and more experienced.

The most frustrating aspect of MK:DA sometimes is that I have to put a lot of effort into winning with a cool character like Sub or Kano but I can have an übercrappy day with Reptile and still win... Doesn't even take a lot of skill. Bleh.

But other than that I'm still enjoying it ;).

Peace,
Q

Damn bajan, wtf is going on.

Not signing on for months makes us worry.

My bad I guess..my computer like blew up on me. Krystal just finished moving to montclaire and is on vacation in Cali with family. you stay away from her..perv : p

Normally, nothing makes me happier than to see a fighter I enjoy playing with put on the bottom tier. It means, "Hey, I have really achieved something with him/her, considering they don't seem to be too great." And this time, I think I should be semi-happy. But I see Cyrax, and Kitana (the two kombatants I happen to be best with) crammed at the bottom, it's kind of bitter-sweet.

Which leads me to my belief that while the MK team makes characters better than others (Scorpion for obvious reasons), any character can be good if you work hard with them. Example: I am lousy with Bo'Rai Cho, and he is top tier. Explanation: I really don't care about him or his character enough to give a damn. :P

So, cheers to you all for making a completely unbiased tier. In these days of "omg lololol scropin rulez', they can be hard to find. And, hey, at least my friend Sonya is in the top tier. :)

Kitana is complete trash, but Cyrax can compete to some extent because of jab set ups in both Ninjitsu and Sambo and a decent keep away game in pulse blade. I'd say with that hes able to complete up to atleast a couple of the bottom mid tier character though he still struggles. Kitana just loses to everyone..including people in her own tier.

Good Kitana = fan lift set ups and pretty kick. anything else = death.

i disagree with how the tiers were set up. IMO sonya has to be the most improved character in MK of all time. heres how my list would look

1.Scorpion
2.Sonya
3.Jax
4.Mavado
5.Rayden
6.kenshi
7.quan chi
8.Sub-zero (possibly the worst subzero since pt.1 but still made my top ten. how old is he in mkda? 86? lol)
9.shang tsung
10.kano (those swords are deadly)
11.Reptile
The rest of the characters were a waste to me. especially bo rai cho. he makes me loose my appetite sometimes lol but really a waste like fujin was.

hey has anyone noticed that kitanas boobs are the biggest on the game? hahah too bad they didnt give her good fighting skills to go with them...

versatile Wrote: Kitana is complete trash, but Cyrax can compete to some extent because of jab set ups in both Ninjitsu and Sambo and a decent keep away game in pulse blade. I'd say with that hes able to complete up to atleast a couple of the bottom mid tier character though he still struggles. Kitana just loses to everyone..including people in her own tier. Good Kitana = fan lift set ups and pretty kick. anything else = death.

What ninjitsu and sambo set-ups are you talking about? I made an effort to find ways to make Cyrax work and I found out two things; (1) it's best to be always on the defensive and wait for an opportunity to either use 1,1,b+1,b+2,bomb,whatever you want (both in sambo and ninjitsu) or his style branch in sambo and (2) he only has one unpunishable combo and that's, surprisingly, 1,1,1 in sambo. Ninjitsu is probably one of the worst styles in the game.

As for Kitana, I think it was BenDover who remarked that she's not entirely useless at long distance because of her impale move. Whenever an opponent power-ups, taunts (no hypertaunts) or performs a projectile move he's game. Ba gua is total crap. The only worthwhile move I've found is b+4 I think.

Peace and cheers,
Q

VainQueur Wrote: versatile Wrote: Kitana is complete trash, but Cyrax can compete to some extent because of jab set ups in both Ninjitsu and Sambo and a decent keep away game in pulse blade. I'd say with that hes able to complete up to atleast a couple of the bottom mid tier character though he still struggles. Kitana just loses to everyone..including people in her own tier. Good Kitana = fan lift set ups and pretty kick. anything else = death. What ninjitsu and sambo set-ups are you talking about? I made an effort to find ways to make Cyrax work and I found out two things; (1) it's best to be always on the defensive and wait for an opportunity to either use 1,1,b+1,b+2,bomb,whatever you want (both in sambo and ninjitsu) or his style branch in sambo and (2) he only has one unpunishable combo and that's, surprisingly, 1,1,1 in sambo. Ninjitsu is probably one of the worst styles in the game. As for Kitana, I think it was BenDover who remarked that she's not entirely useless at long distance because of her impale move. Whenever an opponent power-ups, taunts (no hypertaunts) or performs a projectile move he's game. Ba gua is total crap. The only worthwhile move I've found is b+4 I think. Peace and cheers, Q

First and foremost guys..lets direct all this stuff towards the high level gameplay thread instead of spreading it throughout the whole board..thx.

Ninjitsu is probably Cyrax's best stance because of jab set ups. Ninjitsu: 1,1 is 100% safe on block and does ok damage. So training them to block 1,1 then doing 1,1,b+1 is a very nice set up. Then after that you can branch into sambo for the bomb set up.

Sambo can be played kinda the same way. If my mind serves me correctly(haven't played cyrax in a while), sambo: 1,1 is pretty safe on block as well.

So basically, Cyrax is forced to play a stand and block style sort of like Sub-Zero only not nearly as effectively. Cyrax needs to take ever oppurtunity he can to interupt fast jabbers like Kung Lao can jax. Against people like Kitana and Li-Mei this is quite easy, but when you get higer onto the tier list Cyrax slowly but surely gets fucked in the ass. Unlike solid stand and blockers like Sub-Zero and Kenshi, Cyrax has no other options but stand and block. Sub's spacing game is decent, and his low poke out of dragon is one of the fastest moves in the game. Kenshi can always threaten the fact that he can kill you with 2 simple juggles, and tai chi: b+4 is an awesome low attack. Cyrax on the other depends strickly on stand and block..which screws him since he can't space.

Enough with the con talk..onto pulse blade. Now this is probably Cyrax's most important stance. Sambo can substitute for Ninjitsu, but with Pulse Cyrax would be even worse than he already is. d+4 is essential for sealing the deal. It does good damage,is backcancelable and has good range. Don't forget to universal track before doing d+4 so you don't get side stepped. b+3 is identical in every way to sub-zero b+4. Hits low, does about 10 damage and is relatively safe on block. If the opponent does not tech roll back Cyrax has a guaranteed low/mid mix up. I like to either do pulse blade: b+2 for an extremely damaging mid launcher or another sweep. If you are really trying to play it safe don't do anything..just get back to turtling. See with Cyrax its all about wearing the damn 60 second clock down to win. It's rare that you're gonna win with Cyrax by straight beating the opponent..so once you have the lead get to pulse blade.

As for Kitana, her impale sucks as just as much as the other impales. Actually, it sucks even more since Kitana cant use her sweet fan lift without the FRICKEN FANS!!! Trust me, no one has reaction time insane enough to impale the opponent when he powers up. Against slow power uppers like quan chi and frost..maybe, but definately not against fast power uppers like kung lao and kenshi.

As for projectiles, most are safe enough to avoid it(sub's freeze,nitaras blood spit and cage's force ball just to name a few), so that never really works either unless it's against a retarded scorpion who uses the spear out side of after hapkido: u+4.

Taunts is pretty much the only way her impale is gonna hit. I mean..vs a good Jax it's not gonna happen, but I can definately see it happening against sneaky Kung Laos and Li Meis. Just don't forget that if the opponent has less than 40% life left that it's best to just branch from eagle claw to end the match instead of fucking with them by impaling. THEN AGAIN Kitana's branch has a bad knack for no longer being guaranteed from first hit around the 2nd or 3rd ba gua hit, but if you lose because of that don't blame yourself. Just remember she sucks ass

I think Raiden is severly overlooked and under-rated.

Not really imo. What killer combo can you name except his full style branch or his staff SM? Raiden is a bit too mediocre, even with his quick sweeps (which are limited by their range).

Cheers,
Q

newgodbomb Wrote: i disagree with how the tiers were set up. IMO sonya has to be the most improved character in MK of all time. heres how my list would look 1.Scorpion 2.Sonya 3.Jax 4.Mavado 5.Rayden 6.kenshi 7.quan chi 8.Sub-zero (possibly the worst subzero since pt.1 but still made my top ten. how old is he in mkda? 86? lol) 9.shang tsung 10.kano (those swords are deadly) 11.Reptile The rest of the characters were a waste to me. especially bo rai cho. he makes me loose my appetite sometimes lol but really a waste like fujin was. hey has anyone noticed that kitanas boobs are the biggest on the game? hahah too bad they didnt give her good fighting skills to go with them...

I agree on the thing about Sonya, but on your Tier your missed many that were very powerful like Johnny Cage for example.

VainQueur Wrote: Not really imo. What killer combo can you name except his full style branch or his staff SM? Raiden is a bit too mediocre, even with his quick sweeps (which are limited by their range). Cheers, Q

bah, with his reversal range doesn't matter and you may not apreciate his combos but again since he has the reversal and it's in his first fighting stance his combos can be done more often.


actually, the more I think about the tier list while playing the more I realize it's just a matter of preferance.

Oh, I forgot one more thing. If you do need that quick range for things like a sweep his weapon stance is perfect for it.

although not dissagreeing or anything, i can slaughter a lot with mavado, i think he deserves a slot in mid teir, not high teir, as i see that he isnt great.

now bo rai cho is hard to win with.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned REPTILE!!!!

I mean come on ppl Reptile is on of the best characters in this game. His Hung Gar style is extremely potent cut it has f+4 and b+4 mixup which can be devastating yet he has a low hitting special move and devastating combos. His Crab style is really fast with excellent juggles and his kirehashi blade is just plain badass!

Just b4 I post anything...I just bought MK: DA today...and am definately interested in playing it and getting good at it. So anyways, I was wondering two things...first, is the tier list at the front of the page up to date...I know that occasionally things can get changed around b/c of some discovery...so is it accurate? Also, will there be any sort of ranking project coming out??? I have just recently become interested in fighting games (I luv my share of SC2)...and they are currently working on a project that shows how well certain characters match up against other charaters...I find that to be more useful then a tier project (which is useful...but not as informative)...so yea...is there one for this game?

Note: I've always played w/ Scorp in the MK series (other then a small Noob Saibot switch in MK Trilogy)...I don't wanna seem like I'm jumping on the 'get the best character in the game' bandwagon...but I really do like him.

Kombat_Krazy_721 Wrote: Just b4 I post anything...I just bought MK: DA today...and am definately interested in playing it and getting good at it. So anyways, I was wondering two things...first, is the tier list at the front of the page up to date...I know that occasionally things can get changed around b/c of some discovery...so is it accurate? Also, will there be any sort of ranking project coming out??? I have just recently become interested in fighting games (I luv my share of SC2)...and they are currently working on a project that shows how well certain characters match up against other charaters...I find that to be more useful then a tier project (which is useful...but not as informative)...so yea...is there one for this game? Note: I've always played w/ Scorp in the MK series (other then a small Noob Saibot switch in MK Trilogy)...I don't wanna seem like I'm jumping on the 'get the best character in the game' bandwagon...but I really do like him.

WTF? A noob that isn't retarded?! For the longest time I thought such a person didn't exist!!

To answer your question, yes, the tier list is fairly up to date. Though, I'd rely more on vets for accurate listings.

As far as ranking/comaparisons go, I'm not sure if there is a "complete" doc. There is stuff strewn about this thread, though. Maybe someone has a personal doc comparing them - we all know Verse likes to write essays .

Tiers are great to know, especially when you have a list which compares character A's tools vs. character B's tools. Just, don't let the tiers dictate how you play and who you play. Don't become an internet forum, fighting game fanboy. Do your own thing. Though, you seam quite intelligent, so no worries. And, yah, Scorp is god tier.

Oh, and welcome to the MK5.org community. More importantly, from the sounds of it, welcome to the fighten' game comunity. If you want to get hardcore into fighters I suggest picking up VF4:Evo; possibly the most perfecting fighting game ever made. Peace.

now bo rai cho is hard to win with.

you are kidding right?

"So anyways, I was wondering two things...first, is the tier list at the front of the page up to date...I know that occasionally things can get changed around b/c of some discovery...so is it accurate?"

Yes and no. I made that when i wasnt as good as I am now, so a few things are wrong such as Sub not being top tier and a few other things. But other that its good. Im gonna edit it today and change the topic to "MKDA TIER LIST VERSION 2".

"Also, will there be any sort of ranking project coming out??? I have just recently become interested in fighting games (I luv my share of SC2)...and they are currently working on a project that shows how well certain characters match up against other charaters...I find that to be more useful then a tier project (which is useful...but not as informative)...so yea...is there one for this game?"

Yes, Version 2 will be a tier list and ranking project put into one I guess. Im gonna go more into detail why each character are where they are.

"Note: I've always played w/ Scorp in the MK series (other then a small Noob Saibot switch in MK Trilogy)...I don't wanna seem like I'm jumping on the 'get the best character in the game' bandwagon...but I really do like him."

Its all good dude. Play to win..everyone remembers a cheap champion, but no one remembers a honorable loser. I use Sub, but thats because im attached to the character. If I were smart i'd use Scorp like you :P

Oh, and since your new the first place you'd want to check out is the MKDA High Level Gameplay Thread. It's like a shrine of MKDA knowledge bro. TIER LIST Version 2.0 coming soon!