I disagree with this notion. To call a spade a spade is to identify it as a spade. Raiden is a God character....but he's not behaving as a group of us on-lookers would imagine that persona to be.

During a conversation with Vogel, I asked him about why MK's God characters (particularly Raiden) are so impotent, powerless, ignorant, etc. At that time (circa pre-MKvsDC), and to paraphrase what he said was that God's are just like really strong people.

What qualifies a character type for a character type if you don't define it? Sure, Raiden is sensitive about mortals and especially those ones who bare the burden of defending Earth. But that shouldn't translate into forcing idiotic behavior into his character. To me, none of this fleshed him out, it simply humanized him.

It seems very counter intuitive to do that to a GOOD guy...GOD character to me. It doesn't just kill the awe factor for him as a God character, it denigrates the character description itself. Since he's supposed to be a God, present him as such...at least. From there, let the writers have fun creating a story despite these facts about God characters such as Raiden.

That is because your God concept encompasses a beyond-powerful all-knowing and superior being. Yeah, most mythologies do not have that.

Raiden, as with all shinto gods is just as humane and prone to petty human-like behaviour, just like Greek gods, or Mayan gods, or Magyar gods.

It is because your God automatically brings forth the Christian deity as its primary meaning.

Wow, you really grabbed that one out the air... Look, I appreciate the pot-shot at "my Christian God" that I never mentioned or described but, if we bring in how I would design Raiden (or any other God character) based on my own spiritual beliefs, I'll have points to drive home with this character type too. Let's do that in another posts, or thread though.

Point here is this,

His behavior does not fall in line with his presentation, period. Point blank.

Raiden could be a hog-poge of American, Norse, African, Greek, and Japanese mythological Thunder & Lightning God characters (that I also understand btw), and he still wouldn't behave as ignorant or as idiotic as he has been. What they've been doing with him in the story is pretty consistent with humanizing him for the sake of plot and story vices....

For example, they'll present him as the leader God of Earth, and then stuff him underneath the Elder Gods [some hierarchy is cool]

-- and then make characters like Shinnok[raiden beat him in the old story so he's..equal now? maybe?]

-- Onaga [ok maybe that can slide with some "other world" adjustments]

-- Shao Kahn [nah...c'mon now. give raiden a run for his money but nah]

-- Quan Chi [wat? idgaf how strong quan chi gets he should fear raiden on earth and anywhere else. he should show fear even when he knows he's powerful enough to do damage]

-- Shang Tsung [huh?!..ok MKD intro was clever..he had help]

-- ...and any spell-bound human [no f'n way] equal to or greater than him.

More?? They'll have him do something great like heal someone in one scene...and then not have the common sense to heal someone else in another. He'll do silly shit like, idk, be the thunder and lightning God for ETERNITY...and yet, not know how to restrain himself under pressure like when he killed Liu Kang.

That, to me, is counter-intuitive.

All this said and, I like alot of the in-game presentation this go-round. I just don't like what they're doing with him in the story most of the time.

It is obvious that Raiden has caused many disasters among the earthrealm defenders in MK reboot and failed in many ways of corrupting the future of bright kombatants and I agree that a powerful force should take the lead within the Earthrealmers.Otherwise Outworld and Netherrealm kombatants (the evil ones) easily take over the Earthrealm yet still we don't know what will happen inside the storyline in MKX...I have a feeling that it is gonna be amazing

I think his blunders will be acknowledged, given the dialogues he's gotten from others in intros and the story told by Ed Boon (I don't remember), it's said most of Rayden's allies are gone or dead which means he alienated a lot of allies and is learning from his mistakes.

Humanizing Raiden is a way to flesh him out, it might challenge our previous personal perceptions about how his character should act but that doesn't make this new approach any less valid.

It's gonna be a looooooong post...


Precisely.


Oh, really?
The most common complaint I see about this issue is that Raiden should have been smarter and knew what kind of consequences his actions could lead to.

Which is basically the same thing as "he SHOULD has know how future will change after his actions", just put in different words. And if you say it is no the most common complaint, I won't have a choice, but to laugh in your face (as I always do with people obsessed with headcanons).

And you can save your prissy words about "misunderstandings" for another ocassion. I won't buy your provocation "wEdgie".


His actual job is to provide guidance and help for the warriors involved in the tournament. He made quite a lot in that regard in both tournaments.

It is also obvious that Shang and Kahn would cheat and it's not something that could be completely stopped as they are masters of their respective competitions and have an advantage of their own fields. Raiden can help, but he shouldn't help to everyone everywhere. What his warriors would do? Besides, it would have been boring, if he solved all problems by himself.


Quite simple really. I assume it is because Raiden thought "he must win" reffered only to people with real chance to beat Shao Kahn. Neither Jax nor Sub-Zero were part of that (very short) list.

And assuming he thought it could have referred to virtually anyone, what should have he done? Ask Kahn to fight every single being from EarthRealm, just because one of the 7 billions people could've been the chosen one? Or what?


As a representative of humans.


Because, wounds can be different and he can't heal all types of them?


Desperate times need desperate measures.


This was an accident. Not a malicious intent or mistake on Raiden's part.


They do remember, but change laws periodically, for their current ideas, which is nothing new to MK. But of course, whatever had happened in OT doesn't count because "it's OT and it's flawless by default" or at least that's how your argument would have go, I assume.


Actually he could not interfere, because Lin Kuei were allies of the Kahn and Sub-Zero wasn't ally of EarthRealmers. Attacking Kahn's allies in his presence could gave an advantage to Kahn and allowed him to accuse Raiden of breaking rules of a tournament. It could go as far as to allow Kahn simply kill Raiden and his allies and claim victory in the tournament.

Basically it was situation - one potential ally versus one potential defeat in the tournament where everything is at stake.


BINGO!!
(Except that he didn't kill Liu Kang).


BINGO COMBO!!


He didn't attack Liu. He put up shield and Liu idiotically walked right into it.
But of course, Liu's ability to walk is Raiden's fault!! It's all Raiden's fault!! LOL.


Yeah, sure. Runing around the island, giving advices, saving asses of his warriors is nothing. Not big deal. Definitely.


Oh, deep psychological profiling based on a character actions in a video game, which never was about deep characters.
Some people really want to go for any lenghths to promote their point of view, going so far as to make statements of dubious nature.


What doesn't make sense are attempts to blame Raiden for every bad thing that had happened in the NT. Yes, in-universe he looks bad. But since audience had luxury to see how things really unfolded, I thought, they will be able to understand that it's not actually the case. But seems I underestimated LUV some people have for fictional chars.


Now that's how I saw Raiden in MK9. Glad, that I am on the same wave as MK writers in that regard.


Which is a good thing for me I must say, since before, he was that typical boring default protector guy.


Gods can be different. MK lore is not obliged to adhere to any other lores or personal ideas, except that of writers of the series. And powerfull gods are boring.


My mind...


Only indirectly so. Without need to adhere to vague prophecies, he can put his act together, I believe.

My god, this post...so full of win.

Raiden was lost, he could not act as he would have because he received a message from the future showing him that did not work. Had he acted as in the original timeline, everything would have just repeated itself. While more people are dead in this point in the story, he did prevent Shao Khan winning Armageddon, which would have led to even more dead people.


Yes, there are a few things that are questionable, usually people complain about him not healing Kitana or Liu Kang when he did heal Jax, but it is really easy to assume his healing power is not that strong, as Jax was not near dead, which was both Kang's and Kitana's state.

The same with Sub-zero, saving him in the tournament might have given Khan the opportunity of complain about trickery.

The only thing I do think was really stupid was asking for the netherrealm's help, when Seido is a clear enemy of Outworld and, as shown in Cage's ending, he is in good terms with the people of that realm. Asking for Seido's help was the way to go there. Still, that would be bringing something much bigger to the table and I don't blame the writers for not wanting to go there.

Perhaps some of the characters will know of Raiden's actions from MK 2011's story, hence the formation of Sub-Zero's rivalry with him. MK 2011's story tries to make it out that allowing Shao Kahn to enter Earthrealm in order for the Elder Gods to destroy him is the solution to preventing Armageddon. The restoration of Raiden's amulet seems to confirm his "realization" as it ties into Dark Raiden's message of "He must win.".

Unfortunately, none of that shit makes sense, because in that timeline, Shao Kahn was able to enter Earthrealm to claim Sindel, hence cheating by using a sort of technicality. So with that said, Dark Raiden's message was bullshit, and he should have warned his younger self to root out Quan Chi, someone that Raiden (in both timelines) knows is very evil, very powerful, and hence very dangerous! There's no valid excuse for his stupidity in that Netherrealm scene in MK 2011's story mode.

It's still the fault of Delia and Argus for putting together the quest that would lead to the events of Armageddon. Also, in Quan Chi's MK: Armageddon ending, Argus stated that the "true" purpose of the quest was to root out the source of disruption in the realms. Quan Chi is apparently that source which does go hand-in-hand with the story of the new timeline. As has been told and was more or less expected, Quan Chi will play a significant part in MKX's story. Although it wasn't shown on his costume, it's still very likely that he retains Shinnok's amulet, so that's another issue for Raiden. If Quan Chi still has the amulet, what if he unlocks more of its secrets within the 25 year time span? He could very well destroy Raiden and other gods.

Having said all of this, despite my issues with MK 2011's story, I'm still pretty excited for MKX. I'm trying to have an open mind about how the story will play out, especially with the introduction of new characters such as Kotal Kahn.

As far as I remember, Shao Kahn ordered to ressurect and brainwash Sindel to destroy her protectional ward, which didn't allow Kahn to enter ErathRealm and merge it to Outworld.
The gist, is that simply sending his army to fight in EarthRealm is not a violation, but merging Earth and Outwrold is. This is where Kahn failed - as soon as he started to merge Earth and OutWorld he violated the rules and angered Elder Gods.

This whole rules stuff always made little sense in either OT or NT, so I simply take it as it is.

I actually agree with Sumac none of these rules make any sense. Also, for the Elders to let one person fuse all the realms together when they know dam well its in there best interest to keep the realms spread apart is totally infallible for all of them.

The purpose of Mortal Kombat is to allow the winner to merge the realms. So at some point they didn't realize that one day over the past 500 years that someone was kicking ass and taking names (Shao). Now they've come to this point. Which is ridiculous.

Raiden killed most of his warriors in one of the most saddest of ways of all time. The Elder Gods are toothless worms for allowing any of this to happen.

He is not really gulty in their deaths.
It was Sindel who killed them.

If I'm not mistaken, in the OT, there was something of a deal where Quan Chi would get Shinnok to taint Sindel's soul and resurrect her on Earth. In turn, Shang Tsung gave knowledge to Quan Chi of the Map of Elements that contained Shinnok's Amulet.

The concept of Sindel's protection ward was only from the NT. While it adds an element to the plot, the elements that led up to her resurrection in the NT contradict established story elements that could not have been logically changed within the context of the story mode's story. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if only the story of MK 2011 was set in its own universe instead of connecting it to the story of the OT.

Anyway, the mentality of the Elder Gods is a problem with MK's story as a whole since Shao Kahn's becomes more powerful with each realm that he absorbs. Adding the One Being element makes it more frustrating as Shao Kahn's absorption of the realms brings the One Being's consciousness back together piece by piece.

Yes, I know. Deal between Shang and Quan was a later retcon added in MKM, which instantly made Sindel ressurection nonsense much more awesome.


I am agree. Like Mileena's backstory this has nothing to do with Raiden and was just a rewrite.
I find it more acceptable, than the others, because it's gave real reason to Sindel ressurection plan, which made little to no sense in the OT.


One Being, while interesting addition to the MK cosmogony, badly meshes with previously established elements, like Elder Gods.

Basically, if Elder Gods know that One Being trying to assemble itself back by influencing powerfull warlords throughout the realms, why they don't do anything to prevent it? And why they merely set some shaky rules, which allow that to happen in the first place?

Sooner or later, there will be some warlord, that will conquer as much as possible and Elder Gods would be forced to interfere anyway. That means, that the whole tournament system is useless by defnition. Unless Elder Gods are bunch of fatalists, who believe One Being will inevitably return one day and they merely prolonging their existence by setting some rules, so it would not happen faster.

I like to think the Elder Gods are actually scared to go into the realms. Of course it's just a theory with no back up, but if they actually said Shinnok was corrupted because he entered the realms, it would make sense for the other gods to fear going there too, cause it would show they are not free of being influenced by the One Being. And thus revealing why they don't interfere directly, not with Onaga, Armageddon or Shinnok's invasion (both of them).

Sometimes NRS writing frustates me. Regardless if you like that idea or not, people have to agree that If they put as much effort into their story as some of the people here do, it would at least make much more sense.

Writing depends on a goal, which writer wants to achieve.

Basically, NRS writes story for a fighting video game, which is fitting for a fighting game. Some people think that NRS must make MK into something deeper, but thing is NRS themselves had no intention to do that the first place.

People confuse their own deep interpretations of MK story, with reality, where MK characters are just bunch of stereotypes, interesting enough to be engaging, but far from being actually deep, where story is quite basic with flavors of pseudo-sophisticated cosmogony to make it look epic, but never truly reaching level of truly deep worldbuilding. And so on.

Also, nice theory.

Here's the problem that I have with Raiden. It's a long post, bear with me please.

As someone stated previously, I feel that the writers are too scared to make these god characters be who they are. They are supposed to be characters with immense power, and yet they don't do a damn thing with it at all.

Take a look at Shinnok. He's a fallen Elder God. When we first saw him in Mythologies, I thought that demon that he transforms into was awesome. In fact, when I first saw that, I was a little intimidated by that.

Then, he debuts in Mortal Kombat 4, and what do we get? A sort of cheap Shang Tsung impersonator who shows up for one measly game and doesn't do jack shit during it. Oh, he invades Edenia, whoopty do. Oh, his own partner that he trusts betrays him, who despite that he can somewhat match Shinnok's magic, probably could have beaten him. But did Shinnok beat Quan Chi? No, he gets defeated.

What about Fujin? Another god that's supposedly all powerful and such, what happens? He gets almost defeated by Shinnok's army and gets saved by the mortals, Liu Kang and Kai (also with Raiden) He becomes Earthrealm's protect, but that's it. Nowhere at all does he come until Armageddon.

He really could not have done anything throughout the events of Deadly Alliance and Deception? No, because the writers didn't want another god character interfering with something that could have easily been stopped, but no.

Raiden's character got the worst of it during 2011. Despite that I didn't mind the story, I'm not going to sit here and say that there were not any problems with it. There were things that they made Raiden do that I didn't like at all.

He stupidly gets defeated by Sonya just for him to make a distraction to Shang Tsung to let her free Jax. There was no point in that fight at all. None whatsoever. It's the only fight in the entire story that I hated doing.

He stupidly tells Scorpion a real cheap tactic to save Bi Han. I'm sorry, but I thought that was really stupid for him to make that move to Scorpion. A very vulnerable person who will flinch near the slightest thing that says anything about his clan or his family. "Yeah, I'll use your dead clan and family as a way to save people, although I should know that there are ways that it could easily backfire on me. OH you somehow teleported to the Netherrealm. I think Scorpion will still keep his word to not kill Sub-Zero, so I should do absolutely nothing and just wait to see what happens from this."

He couldn't have traveled to the Netherrealm to stop Scorpion? I hated that scene as well. I really did. Not because Sub-Zero gets his butt handed to him, but because of just how everything played out. Raiden really couldn't follow Scorpion?

Despite that I didn't mind Sub-Zero turning into a cyborg, he, along with Smoke, stupidly stands watching the entire event take place. Had they tried to fight the cyborgs to stop what was happening to Sub-Zero would have been one thing, but they didn't do a goddamn thing. They just stood there, watched as Sub-Zero transformed off-screen into a cyborg (I know, parts were showing him getting zapped, but it did go off-screen later). That was incredibly stupid to watch as well.

He stupidly heads to the Netherrealm for Quan Chi's help. He wants to give him the souls of the Earthrealm heroes and his own (if he fell) to exchange for help. So he will be okay to allow those who he helped have their souls tortured in the Netherealm? He's okay in giving the dead to someone who's pure evil and would not give a damn what happens to them? We're supposed to be rooting for this guy? I gave up rooting for him the moment I saw this entire scene pan out. I thought it was probably the worst thing they could have done for this character.

And not only that, but he stupidly zaps Liu Kang all because he's against Raiden's plan. There was no reason for him to just shock Kang, I didn't understand why he did that move. And he was regretful for doing that? I'm sure there could have been a way where he could have rendered him unconscious seeing how he clearly did that to Mileena once. But no, instead, we have to just zap him to death.



I'm sorry, but after that, I really wanted him to become a delusional fuck up who becomes the end boss because he went insane for all the problems he caused during the last story. Unfortunately, I didn't get that to happen, and hearing some of the dialogue from some of the characters in this game, it truly does seem that they have written his character to be somewhat despised in some eyes.

So, in a way, I think it will be acknowledged. But there's absolutely no way he could have been stopped during those events? He was getting people killed, and the Elder Gods didn't think that MAYBE what he was doing was a problem? I may not understand some of the actions the Elder Gods did during they story, especially when they did not think what Shao Kahn did was worthy enough to interfere. However, if I saw some god who was meddling around with humans and seeing that more and more of those who he has on his side are dying, I would probably pay a little bit more attention to that.

But of course, that's just random bullshit I'm pulling out of my ass. However, I truly do want this to be the end of Raiden... at least story wise. I'd like to see that his actions has severe consequences. He should get what's coming to him after having so many die because of his actions. But we'll see how it plays out. I'm sure that what I would like to see happen won't but, I truly do not like how the god characters are portrayed in this series. I don't think the writers understands how to handle god-like characters. None of them has ever struck out to me as someone I should root for or see that they're awesome threats for the series. Which is a shame because I like all of these characters, however, they're just not written in a way where if you look at what they really do, they did absolutely nothing or the writers felt that the direction they should go is in a place where people will be bothered by it.

I can safely say, not too many people quite enjoyed what they did to Raiden and I didn't either.

Yeah, MK's story was told through character archetypes, and while the story might have changed, those archetypes still remain. At the end of the day it is just an excuse to have some cool characters beat each other out, nothing more.

But sometimes, when I notice things that could be easily explained, improved, or when it just gets too bad, it frustrates me a bit. Probably because when I was younger I actually considered the story as really good, and would like it to still have that feeling about it.

I don't want it to sound as a complain, cause it's not, I love the games and I get the story is a secondary aspect for the developers, and even so is still probably the best of any fighter, and the lore is good enough to make an RPG in that world, so I'm happy with their work.

Disagree. All that says is that you recognize this almost 20yr old flaw, renewed again circa MKDA-D...and then again with MK9.

I'd say, humanizing him was a good way to flesh him out. But I think they missed the boat on doing it well, and so we keep repeating that process...and btw, I think it's obvious now that we've had enough of that. He has effectively been broken down to an idiot character with the God title as an attachment, rather than being a God character that has things to confront as a part of his responsibility.

Not only that, humanizing him shouldn't be the only way we explore this character. Especially considering he's one of the most consistent faces in the series (he missed one game, MK3). Comparatively, they keep finding new things to do with Sub-Zero, the Lin Kuei, their legacy, and lineage...or Scorpion, his interactions with other characters, and the Shirai Ryu. So? Despite the fact that those two are the game's mascots, it doesn't make very much sense to marginalize Raiden's character type by humanizing techniques or very minimalistic plot vices.

Here are some things they could be doing with Raiden:

• Raiden is eternal....so explore his age. - Quite frankly, Raiden should be the quintessential master of most things he does, just based on the strength that he's so-damn-old. What has he been doing for eternity, not training, or learning anything? Not interacting with the other realms? Other mortals, demi-gods, or gods? Not having any other experience outside of "changing the diapers" of earth's mortals? Hasn't he seen a change-over among the Elder Gods once or twice already?
  
  You see, the Mortal Kombat tournament, even in terms of the Mortal Kombat Universe itself, hasn't been around forever so, what else is there?? Based on his age alone, it is safe to assume there is much more to his character than the fact that he sits on the Mentor/Counselor/Usher mantle for Earths' Mortal Kombat contestants.
  
  ++As a side note here, it is exactly his job description to protect Earth. Why not show us more of what makes his job...a job? What other threats does Earth face on a regular basis that he is responsible for dealing with? Information like this helps build up, understand, and thus flesh the character out as well, and would do so without degrading the concept of the "God" archetype or Raiden as a persona in relation to the MK contest.
  
  Other ideas for defining him as specifically, "a Mortal Kombat EarthRealm originated God character" could extend this way...
  
  Say, whenever he makes contact with, converses with, or does anything to or for mortals (ex: heal them, transport or open portals for them...etc), it should come across like a blessing of some kind. Now, after two game into the new timeline and having had good exposure to Raiden, I would expect the mortals to become accustom to certain things Raiden does. Like teleporting, disappearing and so on. But, when he does stuff for them, I expect a reaction from the other cast members like we saw when he did heal Jax. I liked that alot actually. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't see more of that kind of thing. The human characters in the game have no idea the full extent of what Raiden can do....and neither do we as players. I want to suggest that the reason for this, is because the developers haven't made it important enough to define what a God is in MK....well, outside of "a really strong guy."
  
  --> And before we even get started here, this isn't singularly a Christian faith-based conceit. Gods of any background or mythological origin don't do things such as "appear" for no reason. It is a universal God behavioral trait for them to appear for, and particularly, influence mortals for-a-purpose. Why is Raiden capped off from typical, very generalized God behavioral traits? More than that, how come there aren't more of his abilities that are absolutely exclusive to him? As far as exclusivity goes, in the whole past twenty years, all we've really seen him exhibit is his ability to conduct lightning, and heal someone...



• Since they keep humanizing him, take it all the way one time and see what happens. We already know he has a Mortal/Human and God/Ether form (presented to us all the way back in MK1), how about they stop floating around in the middle ground so much. Slot him hard one way or the other, and grow him some more from either one of those vantage-points. Human or God.
  
  ...and on that premise, it would immediately change the dynamics seen between Raiden and the other characters. It would also change how we think about Raiden dealing with the circumstances that he could face, and it would make him a lot more interesting than "just a really strong guy" with a God title attached to him. Or in other words, a perpetually dysfunctional/stupid God character.
  
  -- Mortal form:: What happens if he's stripped of his powers all the way down to become just Mortal? How would he work his way back into his God rites?
  -- God form:: Or, likewise, and I think just as interesting; What happens if he's just Ether God Raiden? How would anyone on the roster deal with this? What could the writers do with a "Super God Raiden?"



• Explain why the bad guys fear Raiden. I would like them to stop merely letting it be implied that they fear him due to his dominion over Earth. Show me. Alternatively, they could be a bit more specific about what is limited or weakened about him when he goes to different realms...I'm pretty warn out of guessing about which powers fade...especially because we don't know the extent of his "power."



• Taking into account that the plot has alot to do with these things... how about we stop allowing Raiden to lose, behave unintelligently, or be dumbed down? The idea that the good guys are supposed to win doesn't say that the story can't still progress and be interesting. Multiple things can be going on and, while Raiden is beating the crap out of one of the bad guys for violating Earth in some way (as he should as protector of earth), something more could be going on elsewhere that progresses the other story elements.

Point of these set of ideas^^ is that you can only play with humanization for so long before I'd imagine you'd want to put him back into a space where he'd actually mean a threat for the antagonists of the casts. At this point, it would probably be more of a challenge to set him up straight, and let the story's cast interact with him from there. Right now, it's just alot of easy out writing techniques and old character persona's rehashed.



1.) Again, humanizing a good-guy God character is never really a good idea unless the intent lies somewhere around the category of a redemption type story. Raiden actually has the elements for this type of sub-plot to take place because he can die, and come back to life. He also has his human form, and God form. So, there's plenty of opportunity to take him all the way down...and bring him all the way back up. Furthermore, there's plenty of opportunity to do much more with him without disturbing his primary objectives as protector God of EarthRealm.

Humanizing him really just speaks that they either don't know what else to do with him, or don't want to do anything else with him aside from having him fulfill the Mentor // Buffoon roll for the sake of any given plot. Raiden's persona as a God is constantly jeopardized in these sorts of circumstances, and his involvement is really just a plugin.



2.) I think we get so used to tearing down entities of great power or influence that we forget that it takes a great story to develop that in the first place. I disagree on powerful Gods being boring. You don't live for an eternity and not have any interesting things to say about the experience.

For instance, how long would you imagine it takes to master every martial art known to any mortal in the MK universe? ...Raiden's been around longer than that.

--So? It shouldn't be far fetched or dismissed as merely some silly personal idea for him to poses mastery of skill. It would make perfect sense then for Raiden, as the protector God of Earth, and the one God who developed a really close relationship with humans, to be solely responsible for many, if not all martial arts on Earth. (..."here you go humans, protect yourselves from threats with these techniques."). Simple.

...and you see, this kind of idea wouldn't make him over-powered at all really. But it would add some depth to what contributions he's made to Earth as its protector...and particularly, it'd build on the notion that some capabilities are exclusive to him as a God.

3.) This kind of thought-process lends credence to where his intelligence level should likely be as well. I mean, if you were to only consider again that he's eternal, and now add that he's at least a formidable opponent to every bad-guy that has come about in the MK universe, it shouldn't be hard to quantify that he's not stupid, and to the contrary, he is or should be quite superior intelligence-wise.

Follow me here....He doesn't need to be omnipresent or omnipotent in order that he may be able to understand vast amounts of data and circumstantial or physical information. Let that notion stand-alone, and he should be capable enough to anticipate most things intellectually....not to mention, Raiden has the ability to physically teleport himself....lol -- One more time....Take the God title away, and let's just use Vogel's "really strong guy" description for a second....

Raiden has an eternity of intelligence working for him, along with some level of electric -or- light vs friction-based quantum physics.

Just saying, even given so little information that describes what Raiden is, of everything that's there, still valid, and canon...it should add up to a much more awesome Raiden character than we're seeing. Again, only using the factual and relevant information that's there about him. No personal additives or anything... but I digress.

These are all reasons why his stupidity should be acknowledged. They really should fix this in the games.

Gameplay-wise, if they make them too powerfull they should be either excluded from gameplay completely or become outright broken fighters.
Story-wise, if they are too powerful why we need other characters, if gods can solve all their problems themselves and simply fight each other, without proxies.

Shinnok's problem in MK4 was strictly tied to the rushed game development. I doubt it had anything to do with MK-Team idealogy regarding god characters.


NRS was concerned to fill each chapter with 4 fights, so they did just that.
Besides, you need to remember about gameplay and story segregation. It's not necessarily those fights had happened like they are depicted in gameplay.


I don't see nothing stupid about it.
He wanted to prevent creation of Noob Saibot, so his actions were completely justified and there were nothing stupid about it. Whether you like his actions in the story or not, this one bit was completely justified.

And why he should had travel with Scorpion into the NetherRealm? What is he: a babysitter? Maybe he should follow all his fighters, solve their problems, repair their cars, change their diapers and so on?

He gave Scorpion a choice. Scorpion's temper got the better of him, thanks to Quan Chi. If anything it was a Scorpion's failure, because, whether Raiden interfered or not, the outcome would have been the same.


Please, rewatch this moment again:
1. Liu wanted to kill him.
2. Raiden created a shield.
3. Liu walked right into shield with his powers activated.
4. Fried Turkey.

Where's Raiden fault in this? He should have allowed Liu to kill him? Then what? Liu defeats Kahn and MKA happens anyway? Nice. *eyeroll*


I am sorry, but this would have been extremely stupid and against everything that was told in story mode. Your displeasure with Raiden understandable, but unjustified.


Why they should care about some random people killed? I assume you are familliar with MK not for the first year, so why are you surprised by their inactions?
I would have been thoroughly surprised, if they did anything.


It was not his fault and there is not reason to punish him for it. He already has suffered a lot for it.


I hope so.


Or maybe they have their own ideas how gods work in their world (as in world they have created), which is not coincidental with your views?

Their ideas are not wrong because they contradict your personal beliefs.


Precisely.


Once again, I disagree with you and duly remind, that your views about gods, are not necessarily the same as that of developers.

You give ideas, but as all "good advisors, who always know better" you don't give any recipes how to use them.


If anything it could have made a good story for a prequel with Raiden as sole hero. But how it should be relized in multisegemnted story of a fighting game?
By introducing some characters from Raiden's past? But it's basically have been done in every game, since he knows Khan, Shang, Onaga and many others for a long time.


Once again, how it should be relized in the fighting game? Note in the Biography? Some sideplot? What exactly?


You once again confuse your perception of a "god" with that of NRS's.
And I duly remind you that they do not obliged to follow your ideas, no matter how good you think they are.
They treat him like just a powerfull warrior and that's that. You might dislike it, but it doesn't mean that their approach is factually wrong or bad.


Why? The fact that he is a strong warrior and Earth is still free is not enough?


It's your opinion, not a fact.
Besides, as we have noted several times already: Raiden is not a "god" like some people understand it. He is a just a strong warrior.


MK is not Raiden's story.
When he receives his own game - it will be time and place to tell these stories.


In regular game it would've been a little blurb in Biography or in somewhere else.


Since I don't think he did anything stupid in MK9, I am disagree with this statement by default.

Basically, you gave theorytical advices, without any idea how to realize them in practice, which kind of a usual thing in this types of situation.

I like current Raiden and I believe in the new game he will be semi-dramatic character, who was misblamed for a lot of stuff and I think it will be interesting to see his reaction about it. And especially how he would act with his wounded confidence and distrust and pressure from his allies. If handled right, it will make him very interesting character to observe.

Much more ineresting, than infallible, nigh-invinicble, all-powerfull being, some people want him to be.

I like characters who can be hurt, both mentally and physically. I like characters who can do mistakes and who forced to live with them, catching (undeserved) shit from their supposed allies and friends. It makes interesting characters.

I'm pretty sure that shooting someone with a lightning bolt and making a shield are not the same thing.

'Cause, y'know, I've seen Raiden actually make shields out of lightning...like in the Deception opening, or in his time-visions, the one that shows his memory of fighting Shinnok during MK4.

And it looks like a bubble. Not like shooting somebody.
What is it about you that you think you can lie about what happened in a cutscene everybody here has watched and nobody will point out that what you said is not true? You seem to do the whole "tell an obvious lie and hope no one notices" thing a lot and I've never understood how you get those ideas. Did you...what, just forget for a moment that everyone here saw the same cutscene?

While I wouldn't describe what Raiden formed as a shield, the cutscene plays out as follows (As seen here: http://youtu.be/TvKlZWKWIyY?t=1h50m30s):

+ Raiden has knocked Liu Kang down, after telling him that Shao Kahn needs to enter Earthrealm and claim victory for the Elder Gods to intervene. He warns Liu Kang not to interfere.

+ Liu Kang gets up and tries to run towards Kahn as he is in the process of entering Earthrealm. Raiden fires a bolt of electricity as his feet, saying, "Liu Kang, stop!"

+ Liu Kang responds by igniting his fist and facing Raiden. Johnny shouts, "Liu Kang, Raiden, no!" and he and Sonya run forward. Liu Kang says that if he must kill Raiden, so be it.

+ Liu Kang actually attacks Raiden, and Raiden strikes him with electricity before Liu Kang connects with his strike.

+ Raiden fries him, and expresses regret. Johnny asks "What did you do?!"

Raiden was acting in self-defense. He tried to put down Liu Kang non-lethally. Liu got back up, ran at Kahn, Raiden tried to stop him, and he vowed to kill Raiden and struck at him.

Now, was Raiden's response overkill? Liu Kang can defeat Shao Kahn, and could probably destroy Raiden's physical form. The idea that Raiden went entirely overboard on someone doesn't ring true to me in light of the fact that Liu Kang was attempting to kill him.

Even if killing Raiden isn't permanent - we've seen that it isn't, necessarily - that buys enough time for Liu Kang to defeat Kahn again and lead to the events of Armageddon.

Surprise first, then regret.

That's the most important part. He meant to shoot him, didn't mean for it to be lethal.

I'm sorry, but all I read is a lot of personal bias. Don't get me wrong, your ideas are very interesting but are expressed in a very dogmatic way, the artistic direction and characterization are the views of NRS alone, not mine or yours, just by being different doesn't make it an invalid approach.
That we think Raiden should/n't be or act like this or that is irrelevant to the debate. Humanizing a character, as basic as it may seem to some, is crucial for a main character, people need to relate with him and his decisions to some degree in order to generate interest and emotional investment, if he acts like an unreachable, incomprehensible entity with a vastly superior intellect and presence it would alienate the viewer, Raiden was MK9's protagonist, not some side character that could be defined by a "cool" gimmick, complex and often contradicting character traits were needed for him to be able to carry such an important role in this story.
None is arguing that there was only one way that NRS could have fleshed out Raiden's character, but it's the way they decided to go with him and it makes a lot of sense why they did it.