Oh lord. I do not have time to write a novel. I'll leave that to someone who has a few hours to kill lol.

Hell yes. Which is why I find it hilarious when people go on about some of the "one and dones" like they're abominations when many of the oldies were flat-out tripe in the last game.

Nostalgia can be blinding for some.

That being said, I thought the stories for MKDA-D and MK9 were exceptional. Was the latter perfect? Absolutely not. I wouldn't even give it an A, though I think a B+ is reasonable. Sure, the characters were tropey at times and the story had some *huh?* moments, but we have to keep in mind they're condensing 3 games of worth of events into a single story that's no longer just a paragraph of text per character. Fleshing out and giving adequate spotlight to 30+ OT characters isn't easy, especially when you have limited time and resources (the story mode obviously could have been longer and more in-depth, but that's time and money away from other modes being developed, and at it's core, MK is a fighting game rather than an epic novel).

I can ignore some of the blemishes of MK9's story mode if I take into account the aforementioned rationale. Given that it had stellar gameplay, it's cool with me if some of the characters had a "Saturday morning cartoon" vibe.

And yes, some of the MKDA-D characters were just as cool as the originals, in either timeline. Those that cannot see this are, well, blinded by nostalgia, as previously mentioned...

Guys I think you all have to relax on the story complaining. We literally have no idea what MKX story will be. Lets not jump to silly conclusions.

Look:

MK9 was a reboot. It was FORCED to tell the story in a certain way because it was essentially a retelling of the first trilogy.

Right? Follow me so far?

Now in order for the team at NRS to make changes to an already concrete canon some things had to be cut, shifted, and tweaked to make the story END UP different than the original timeline.

Still with me?

It is for those reasons that Raiden looks so foolish because he had to essentially be a dumbass for things to change.

And now for the final blow:

MKX will not be tethered to any past iterations. It is wholly original and completely new. I would put a large wager on the story lines jumping back to their former glory in MKX because NRS will not have their hands twisted.

I just wanted to see where were you coming from, that's all. I agree the story in MK9 had many flaws, mainly due to the fact they had to cram up together the story from 3 games in one simple, lineal story mode, because of that, there were lots of limitations, the pacing was rushed, the plotpoints felt contrived and the characterization was really poor. Although I still believe they made an considerable effort in trying to appeal to the old fans and, at the same time, try to keep things fresh to bring a new audience.

For fighting game standards, the story wasn't bad, they took risks and created a great setup for a sequel with a completely new storyline. In that aspect, I believe they succeeded.

I think MK9 story can be summed up in the old proverb: "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Raiden tried to do the right thing but, even with god like powers, there's just so much you can do. Even if one doesn't agree with his decisions, he wasn't badly written, imho.

Someone give this man a medal.

You nailed it, sir.

"I stand watch for eternity"

I doubt Raiden will be in the game for long, judging by that subtitle they've used for him. They might summon him at the last moment during a tough situation while Fujin is helping Earth's warriors, at least that's what I think.

I highly doubt they would still make him a blunder god (I love that phrase) in the new one just to be hated by the other heroes. but that's just my two cents.

For sure it'll be acknowledged.

I'm of the mindset that I hope Raiden is made to be a bit more aware this time around, learning from past mistakes.

Midway will always live on within the hearts of the entire MKO community.

Let's chalk it all up:

1.They want Fuu-Jin to replace Raiden as protector of earthrealm(as if they presume he's more powerful & more logical right?)
2.MK2-onward Sub-Zero to stay as Sub-Zero forever(let's face it. Bi-Han? Kuai-Liang? Basically two random names Boon pulled out of his hindquarters)
3.Classic Sub-Zero to stay as Noob forever(once again, Midway)
4.MK4 to have an enormous significance to the entire MKX story(Wee sah Shee-nawk at teh ind ov em-kay-nyne stor-ee so WE BETTER HAVE ALL MK4 CHARACTERS AND MK4 STORY OR WE WILL RIOT!!!)
5.Sareena(What an irritating name) to have a major role in the story
6.Smoke to become automated again(enough said....)

Fuck man I'm getting tired of getting henpecked here. I cannot wait any longer until Boon gives us full confirmation whether he's just going to actually have a brand new story or trick the casual media into believing its new when it actually is MK4 rehashed story & all of that bullshit I just listed actually happens. I'm still going to buy the game regardless. I'm just sick of these goddamned speculation topics.

While Raiden did some pretty stupid shit during MK9, I do wonder how exactly anyone could expect him to know what "He must win" would mean. The message he received from the future was so short and vague that "he" could refer to essentially everyone in the male cast.
As for if Raiden deserves to be killed off for it: judging from the pre-fight dialogues, I think MKX seems to be heading in a good direction where everyone is aware of his mistakes and nobody wants to be associated with him. If he does redeem himself, it's more likely he'll be doing it on his own.
Being regarded as a kind of pariah would be a great opportunity to let him develop. He could either own up and make up for his mistakes, or he could continue a descent into madness. Either one would be better than killing him.

If he does die, I absolutely do not want it to be at Liu Kang's hands. Leave Liu dead for a game or two, at the least. His role in MK9's story soured me more on the character than Raiden's blunders did.
Liu got little to no fleshing out beyond his continuing "generic champion and devout follower of Raiden" shtick for the first half. For the second half, he just became an angry, stubborn, and self-important cliche. Why did he care about Kitana so much, when their interaction was limited at best and they had even less to do with each other than in the original timeline? Shao Kahn might as well have just broken his neck instead of Kung Lao's - would've made for a more compelling story for Kung Lao, at least.

So no, no, no to the continuing requests for Liu Kang to kill Raiden. Raiden may be a dumbass, but Liu Kang was willfully dense and put himself in the situation to get fried.

LOL @ that stupid hate towards Raiden.

Never understood why people hate on him. Oh, because they favorite characters got killed? Big deal, it's a fucking video game. More than that, it's a fighting game, which proved time and time again, that death is meaningless in its universe. I explained time and time again, that Raiden can not see the future and his decisons have been justified.

But NOOOOOOOOOO. Whiners and fanboys still gripe that he SHOULD know how future will change after his actions. But when you ask them "how he could know about specific changes?" They say "because he is a god, he SHOULD knew it". "Why?" "Because".

And that's basically what their pathetic and weak arguments amount to: "because"!! And nothing else. Because there IS nothing else. Their arguments are devoid of any substance and merely product of the dissatisfaction that their favorite (fictional) characters have been killed.

It doesn't matter, that Raiden never had power to see the future and operated solely on the knowledge about original timeline and vague message. It doesn't matter that some changes had nothing to do with Raiden and whatever he did. No, he is "god of blunder" now, because he acted desperate, when everything was going straight to hell. Let's shit on him for that for eternity. Brilliant.

I surprised that with fans like that NRS still trying to please you. If I were them, I would have done whatever I wanted + whatever is needed to make game succesful with general public, without needless pandering to ungrateful neckbeards, who permanently stuck in the hate mode, because of stupid nostagia and ridiculuous belief in headcanons and self-importance.

Also, people waiting for another reboot can GTFO. It won't happen as long as gameplay is good and series sells.

Yeah, to be honest, this is what I was getting at with my opening statements in my last post. All Raiden got was an occasional "flashforward" image in his head, with no context, and the sentence "He must win".

Bargaining with Quan Chi, of all characters, to help fight off Outworld was a stupid move; excusing Raiden's desperation, Quan Chi's major defining trait is and has always been screwing over whoever he works for or with to his own ends. Even if Quan Chi had agreed - and he seemed bewildered himself that Raiden would approach him - Raiden should have known better than to try and pledge the souls of everyone killed in the conflict to him.
Of course, maybe Raiden planned to double-cross Quan Chi, which would have been hilarious if it panned out.

Coming back to the original point, the hate pile on Raiden is mostly unjustified. He made stupid decisions here and there, granted, but again, how the hell was he supposed to know what the Raiden of Christmas-Still-To-Come wanted him to do? It was so ambiguous that you could take it to mean that Baraka was meant to win over Johnny Cage in the first tournament.

No one has ever, EVER said that.

You misunderstand the argument at the most fundamental level. You've done this multiple times, so I have to assume you're misrepresenting people's arguments ON PURPOSE so that you'll never have to actually confront and respond to the arguments people ACTUALLY HAVE made because you have no rebuttal for them.

Nevetheless, for everyone ELSE's benefit, here is a helpful list summarizing just a FEW of the things people ACTUALLY HAVE said:

"His actual JOB is to make sure Outworld doesn't cheat at tournaments, so why does he never speak out any of the many times Shang cheats, or when Sektor and Cyrax interrupt a tournament match?"

"If he's looking for the "he" who "must win" and doesn't know WHO it is, it could be ANYBODY, why would he let Jax leave his sight or Sub-Zero be captured?"

"Why does he take Liu with him to see the Elder Gods if Liu never actually talks while they're there?"

"If he can heal Jax, how come he can't heal Kitana? Did he forget he could do it?"

"Trying to sell the souls of good people who trust you to the devil is always evil no matter what. The ends don't justify the means."

"He should know how much lightning will fucking kill people when he shoots them with it."

Then don't fucking read them.

When I think about it, Raiden had to say "he must win" because if he said something like "Kahn must win" the message might be disregarded as a trick and Armageddon wouldn't be stopped.

I did have an issue with the idea of someone offering souls because Shao Kahn did the same thing, but he apparently he offered the souls of Earthrealm too? Like, how does this work? Can some random jackass from a different dimension I've never heard of offer my soul to another jackass from a different dimension I've never heard of and suddenly my souls gone? WTF

Granted, I don't often see people outright saying that Raiden should have known how things would have turned out. But what I do see often is frustration that he couldn't foresee the consequences of his actions, and with generic comments like "Raiden is an idiot now", it leaves room for interpretation.
This is actually the first topic I've seen where people have even expressed the opinion that Raiden's flawed decisions are understandable.




This stands up poorly as an argument that he was out-of-character, as Outworld cheated in the exact same way in the original timeline. He sure as hell didn't prevent it then, either. All this statement really does is reinforce that Raiden actually hasn't done his job well at all in either timeline.
As for why he didn't intervene on Sub-Zero's behalf, there is no real defense for that. I can't find any solid reasoning for it; the only thoughts I have are that Sub-Zero wasn't a willing participant in the tournament, and the Lin Kuei pledged allegiance to Shao Kahn which might render Raiden's involvement interference with the tournament? Very weak logic, and inexcusable on Raiden's part anyway.



Raiden, under normal circumstances, usually expresses an unusual amount of understanding and respect for the mortals and their freedom of will for a god. It's what makes him stand out from the others. If the other characters make decisions that may be dangerous or ruinous to themselves, I imagine it bothers him, but unless their decisions are a clear threat to Earthrealm, he feels no jurisdiction.
Now, when he became Dark Raiden, that actually became a major plot point: he ceased to trust mortals to make any decisions, and turned into a tyrant.




My question would be, why didn't Liu Kang speak up for himself? He hangs out with a god, I doubt the Elder Gods would completely awe him into perpetual silence in their presence. Liu Kang could have said something and made a strong case as one of the victims of Shao Kahn's invasion of his realm, but he said nothing and left Raiden to do the talking.



There might be limitations on his abilities to heal someone. Or perhaps, if someone is actually dying, he restrains himself or is prohibited from preventing that.

I mean, he reanimated Liu Kang's corpse in the original timeline. But given his personality at the time, that seemed like one further transgression in driving him down a dark path. My feeling is that he normally doesn't interfere with the process of death in that sense.




Already addressed that one in my previous post. I see it as unnecessarily risky and negligent as well, but Raiden could conceivably have intended on disposing of Quan Chi himself after enlisting his aid.



Even ignoring that characters in this game regularly use and display powers that could kill anyone with minimal effort (Hell, Sindel killed people with her bare hands easily), Raiden was under quick and immediate pressure to stop Liu Kang.
People can be killed by a taser if the user goes overboard, and some individuals can recover quickly from being tased. Raiden had to put Liu Kang - at that point, stubborn and angry and known for being a resilient fighter - down, and do it fast.

He killed Liu Kang, and throughout his decisions and absences, Raiden arguably bears responsibility for more people dying in this timeline than the last during Shao Kahn's invasion.
However, if he didn't stop Liu Kang, and Liu defeated Raiden and/or Shao Kahn, history would repeat itself, and everyone but Shao Kahn would die anyway. By preventing the temporary defeat of Shao Kahn by Liu Kang, Raiden ensured what is likely to be a more permanent defeat of Kahn by allowing him to win and draw the wrath of the Elder Gods.
In doing this, more people are dead than last time around at this point in the timeline, but he seems to have saved a few from meeting the terrible deaths they did get at Armageddon. Ultimately, all Liu Kang would have achieved is ensuring that everyone dies.

Biggest plothole in the game, yeah.

Made all the worse because "good souls can't exist in the Netherealm" is outright stated in at LEAST 4 different games, especially in regards to Nightwolf in Deception, who had to *absorb other people's sins* to travel there because normally, he's the purest fucking guy on Earth.

Those were plot points, he's not omnipotent, if he was there would be nothing at stake, this "flawed" and impotent Raiden really showed complexity and fleshed out his character quite a lot, he's relatable now, despite being a god, we all make mistakes when we become desperate. These characters are not superheros and they aren't bound to a black & white characterization.

We all are free to disagree with the direction NRS went with him but to call him and his decisions stupid because of that is non sequitur.

If Quan Chi had accepted this offer, Raiden would have been a fucking genius. It's like selling fog in a jar.

Find me proof that in the old timeline, Shang allowed people who had already been eliminated rejoin the bracket.

Cyrax eliminates Johnny AFTER Scorpion had already beaten Sektor and Cyrax in a match that Shang himself made official.



This is actually a point I'd like to discuss because I find the implications interesting.

In MK9, all of the choices Raiden makes BY ACCIDENT or out of desperation, are ones that DARK Raiden would have chosen willingly and happily.

Are we thinking that's coincidence or deliberate, like DR somehow knew the message would lead his nicer past self to fuck over the allies he no longer wanted? Would that be giving the writers too much credit, or is it in fact a mistake on their parts as though they've forgotten that Raiden was supposed to care about his mortal allies before he went dark?



"Close as a shadow and twice as silent". Granted, that was Johnny Cage's advice, but still...you make a fair point. WHY?

Still, what could Liu Kang POSSIBLY have had to say that would convince the Elders of anything? They've always been pretty clear that their rulings have nothing to do with mortal lives, so what purpose did Raiden think bringing Liu along would serve?



There is a HUGE difference between interfering with the laws of life and death after the death has actually occurred and STOPPING a person from dying while they're STILL ALIVE.

What you're suggesting would be like a paramedic refusing to administer treatment because "Eh, I COULD patch up the wound, but they've already started bleeding out. Might as well just let it happen."

If, however, his healing IS limited, and Kitana was too far gone for him to save, then I have to ask, as a writer, why wouldn't you have a line of exposition explaining that?

Or better yet, why did the scene where he healed Jax even happen if that wasn't ever going to happen again for the rest of the game and wasn't the setup of a Chekhov's Gun to be used later in the story?

Jax was only bruised. And he didn't fight during the tournament. So why did his superficial wounds need to be cartoonishly made to disappear with electric zaps?



That excuse doesn't really work, I don't think there's any scenario where killing Quan Chi would allow you to move souls from Hell to Heaven. Especially since Quan just is a middleman and Shinnok is the real ruler.

You can't void a contract, after you've already signed it, by killing the lawyer.



I don't mind that he killed Liu Kang. I mind that his REACTION to killing Liu Kang makes him look like he didn't know what he was doing.

Raiden is MADE of electricity and has been for a billion years.

How is he not the world's biggest expert on all things electricity? How could that outcome have come as a surprise to him?

That's all I'm saying there.

The instances I point out DO NOT ask for or require omnipotence

They're very simple exercises in common sense, like a human like me and you is capable of.

I'm genuinely bothered by the fact that there are people here who think you'd have to be all-knowing and invincible to go "Wait a minute, Cyrax lost a match earlier, why's he allowed to fight Johnny?" or "Hey, Sub-Zero's one of my realm's fighters and he was about to win his match. You can't just fucking yoink him out of the bracket!"

Except that it WORKED and Nightwolf's soul somehow IS in Hell now because the writers can't remember their own lore.
This really doesn't bother you guys? Really?

That's just nit-picking. Those were inconsistencies any character could have pointed out, they didn't because they were plot-points that needed to happen so that the story could progress, that responsibility doesn't fall on a single character but on the narrative itself. Also, Raiden's job isn't to ensure Outworld doesn't cheat, his job is to protect Earthrealm, plain and simple, and he did just that.

So...I take it we both agree that events in the script are poorly contrived.

On our side of the fourth wall, the WRITERS shoulder the responsibility for anything that was stupidly written.

That doesn't change the fact that IN-UNIVERSE, the character who does the stupid thing is the one whose image suffers for it.

Raiden is the one whose JOB it is to point out when Outworld is cheating. The fact that Liu or Johnny or someone else could ALSO point it out and didn't doesn't change the fact that it's Raiden's actual RESONSIBILITY as Earth's protector appointed by the Elder Gods, to ensure that Mortal Kombat tournaments are carried out fairly and properly. There's no moment in MK9 where he does what he's actually supposed to be there to do, thus while in reality the writers are technically the ones at fault for writing it that way, IN-UNIVERSE the CHARACTER is responsible for his own actions.

I'm pointing this distinction out because I believe the writers' choice to portray Raiden this way was DELIBERATE.

We see during the invasion moments where Raiden is actually suffering mental distress, zoning out in the middle of strategy discussions, or losing his patience/temper because the amulet cracked again. When Liu Kang accuses him of going insane, there's an element of truth to that. While the audience knows Liu is wrong about the visions being a symptom of madness because we too can see Raiden's visions, it's still possible that Raiden is indeed going mad from the stress. Liu's opinion is completely relateable, because you can see WHY he would think Raiden has lost it. Liu is not the bad guy for thinking this and it's possible to partially agree with him.

He's MEANT to be losing it, he's MEANT to be failing and screwing things up. This is the story the writers told ON PURPOSE. And they're continuing that story into MKX. I do not for a second believe that Ferra, D'Vorah, and Sub-Zero not trusting Raiden has anything to do with MKO threads that called him the "God of Blunder". I believe the writers are going to do what they want to do and we don't have much influence one way or the other, and this IS the story they want to tell, Raiden IS a poor ally, and he's MEANT to be, and other characters have realized it. Actions have consequences.

So to have users here saying that fans are wrong to call out Raiden's behavior, when the writers wrote him behaving erratically and screwing up ON PURPOSE, that just doesn't make sense.

What I meant there was cheating in a broader sense. The tournament could barely be called a tournament, as they weren't following any actual brackets that I could determine. Shang just threw whoever he felt like together to fight at any point.
When I said Outworld cheated in the previous timeline, I'm referring to stuff like Shao Kahn forcibly initiating a second tournament through a Tarkatan attack on Earthrealm and full-out invading it against all rules in Mortal Kombat 3.
Raiden agreed to the tournament in Mortal Kombat 2, against all logic. Why put his best warriors in danger against Shao Kahn directly on his home turf when he won the tournament that prevents Kahn from legally invading Earthrealm by the Elder Gods' decree? And I'm talking in the original timeline, as well - there was no need for it, and it supports the notion that Raiden isn't exactly a good enforcer of tournament rules (Not that they had much governing them anyway).



I would say they made a mistake, there.

If other characters' reactions to Raiden in the dialogues for MKX are any indication, the writers are definitely aware that Raiden would be perceived as a huge liability and threat to everyone's safety.
It would be surprising if they went the extra mile and drew that parallel of what thin line separates Raiden from his Dark future counterpart, though. I would personally like to see what they could make of Raiden obliviously doing the same things his corrupted self would have chosen to do. It makes him even more dangerous, in a way, as he doesn't project the threat he poses to everybody through black clothing or an angry demeanor anymore.

As for if Dark Raiden knew he was convincing his past self to do things that would cause major losses for the mortals in his protection, we can only guess.



The only thing I can think of is a bit of a stretch, but given the Elder Gods' history of inaction and attitudes towards mortals, maybe Raiden intended Liu Kang to witness it for himself. Ultimately, that would be pointless, as Liu was pissed off at Raiden above all others. But it may be that Raiden was hoping that, whatever the result, his champion up until that point may stay by his side if he saw for himself what kind of odds Raiden was facing in talking to the Elder Gods.



I definitely can't think of any sort of answer for this one. I was operating on the track of mind that Raiden may have some sort of code to adhere to when it comes to mortals dying, but I can't see any evidence to support it and concede that it was pretty ridiculous.The only real answer is Raiden stood by and watched to allow for plot drama.



For this one, I was thinking in terms that Raiden was going for a quid pro quo of "You do this for me, and then you will get the souls of everyone who dies as a result of this whole thing." So my thought process was that Raiden would make it as a pledge in hopes of getting Quan Chi and the Netherrealm to back it on his Boy Scout's honor alone. And then he'd turn around and backstab them or try to wriggle out of it once they achieved his goal.

It still doesn't give Raiden much credit, either, as a suggestion for his reasoning, because he still approached Quan Chi, Expert in Betrayal in the hopes of getting one over on him.

But as you pointed out, Quan Chi already claimed their souls for the Netherrealm in defiance of canon details that good souls can't exist in the Netherrealm. I could only hope that the writers had remembered that, and that it would mean something, but it's almost guaranteed to be a retcon plot hole.



Yeah, that reaction was sort of out of place, now that I think about it. "Oh, no, I actually killed him." I forgot that he reacted with surprise on top of the remorse. Only thing I can stick with there is that he attacked Liu without considering the consequences, which is admittedly stupid.

Yes, but that's MK9, that's not MK1.

It was never part of the original lore that MK1 had shit for a bracket. It was supposed to look like a real tournament that had been held according to a set of rules and traditions for a thousand years, not one Shang made up on the spot off the top of his head.

So you can't say "Raiden didn't complain about it in the old timeline either" because we don't know that, especially since Raiden does repeatedly, successfully complain about fights that aren't supposed to happen and prevent Shang from cheating in the movie, which is where the idea of Raiden being protector of Earth and Liu's mentor instead of a competitor in the tournament himself comes from.

And having a second tournament is not cheating if it was agreed to.

The REASON they agreed to it was to prevent Shang from attacking any more to try and provoke them (and to rescue Sonya).

Perhaps Raiden SHOULD have instead responded by frying the invaders and you can ask "Why didn't he? That's what's stupid"...but that's a whole 'nother issue.

See...in the OLD timeline, no one was there to fight back when Shang attacked the temple. Liu and co. got there AFTER it happened and wanted revenge. The noncanon game MK: Shaolin Monks is what started this whole idea that they were there when Shang attacked and they had the ability to fight back...but in MKSM, there's this confusing part attached to it where Raiden fights Shang and then we don't see what happens to Raiden but Shang spends the rest of the game morphed pretending to be Raiden and telling Liu and co. what to do.

MK9 has Jax black out and they skip over the whole attack so we don't see WHAT the hell Raiden was doing.