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XiahouDun84
11/12/2008 11:59 PM (UTC)
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Linkuei_Frost Wrote:
Sareena.

Either, I don't want Her return in MK9 or I don't want her with new Freeze Power EVER!!!!furious

I'm just curious, because I've seen you rag on Sareena a lot over her having ice powers: do you think Sareena fans actually want her to have ice powers?
'Cause...far as I know......we don't. I'm fairly certain we're all hoping that part of her ending will be non-canon.

Just wondering.
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RazorsEdge701
11/13/2008 03:39 AM (UTC)
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I didn't even know there were people thinking the MKA endings would turn out to be canon.

I mean, do you really think Subbie's the God of Ice now, or Scorpion's son is alive but Quan Chi kidnapped him for no good reason? Or Liu Kang has killed and replaced Raiden? Those endings are just silly and impossible. Sareena doesn't have ice powers, she's not GOING to have ice powers, no one ever wanted her to have ice powers, end of story.
The only MKA endings even REMOTELY likely to turn out true are Taven or Daegon (or maybe Blaze's is true, everyone dies, and MK9 is a reboot)
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xaanthius
11/13/2008 01:12 PM (UTC)
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I would get rid of all except the following:

Raiden
Kitana
Mleena
Sub Zero
Scorpion
One other Ninja
Kung Lao
Goro
Baraka
Quan Chi
Sindel
Undead Lui Kang
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RazorsEdge701
11/13/2008 02:09 PM (UTC)
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As an honest response to the topic...

I would cut a f*cking swath through the roster. "As much newness as possible" I think is an excellent direction to take MK in now after so many of the past games, particularly Shaolin Monks, Armageddon, and MK vs DCU have been full of nostalgia and old classics.

Who I would keep:

Scorpion and Sub-Zero, the obvious mainstays

Raiden - just to see where this Dark thing leads

Fujin - He's been the OFFICIAL Protector of Earth since after MK4, it's time to see him act like it, god dammit.

Sareena - She was supposed to be in MK4...didn't make it. She was supposed to be in Deadly Alliance...didn't make it. We waited way too long to get to play as her, and when we finally did, she turned out to have the best moves in the entire damn game. No way can I let them take her away now. Especially with so much story potential.

Ermac - Outworld needs a main hero and let's face it, he's just f*cking awesome. C'mon, who doesn't love Ermac?

Kenshi - Best new character, didn't get enough to do in Deception and Armageddon. I'd make him a Special Forces leader, since I'm retiring Sonya and Jax.

ONE Cyberninja - I can't decide which one I like best, but I'm leaning towards Smoke, I think he has the most potential for emotional character development.

Kira - I know people don't really like her because of the whole Sonya/Kano hybrid thing but who cares? Moves can be changed! Redesign her gameplay and she'd be awesome. She's the ONLY Black or Red Dragon who I think has potential for the future. Leave the rest of them dead, their gangs were never REALLY interesting in the first place.

Reiko - I loved him in MK4 and I love him in Armageddon. It's not about the helmet. It should NEVER have been about the helmet. The helmet's just a symbol. Look how similar Kahn's and Onaga's helmets are - it's the Outworld crown! What this man really wants is to be emperor. He was Kahn's right hand man when Kahn was something to be feared, when he actually conquered places and waged wars! He led the armies of Hell in a war against Heaven! As a general, the battles this man has staged should be the thing of legend! Let this disciplined military strategist show us what he's capable of in a REAL way, let him sit on the throne. Kahn's time to shine was over several games ago anyway.

Havik - the only Seido or Chaosrealm character who didn't suck. You gotta give him some credit for rising above the rest of those ugly designs and boring stories and making something interesting of himself as what some fans have been calling "The MK universe's Joker"

Drahmin - Someone's gotta rule the Netherealm and all the other Hell characters have kinda...done everything they can possibly do. Shinnok was the big evil of two games, three if you count his machinations in Armageddon, Quan Chi's just gotta die already for the sake of saving poor Scorpion's story, and Noob...well, Noob's been in EVERY SINGLE GAME. Let's let the boy rest for a while, eh? It's either him or Hsu Hao (who everyone hates, but hey, his Armageddon ending where he becomes a demon of emptiness and desolation because he doesn't have a heart was actually kinda intriguing)

Maybe...just MAYBE I'd bring back Kung Lao too, but only in a Bo' Rai Cho-esque "old martial arts teacher" sort of role. And we could see Kitana and Taven a little if Edenia is threatened again, but I'd really prefer if we leave that poor realm alone for a while. It's just played out.

Everyone else is dead or retired. The rest of the roster is new characters. You miss Goro? Let's throw a new Shokan or two out there. You were a fan of Baraka? Too bad, Baraka was a one trick pony. Let's make a new Tarkatan, one who doesn't suck this time. You love Sonya? I like Sonya too but she's gotta be like 40 years old by now, I'm sure they can come up with something else you'll like just as much.

I realize some of my ideas sound a lot like stuff XiahouDun has been doing with his ideas for future MK games, but that's just serendipity. I'll tell you one way me and him differ. I'm bored to tears of Mileena and he can't get enough of trying to turn her into a good guy. Just plain doesn't make sense.
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XiahouDun84
11/14/2008 06:45 PM (UTC)
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RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I didn't even know there were people thinking the MKA endings would turn out to be canon.

There are actually a fair share of people who are expecting/hoping at least parts of some endings will come true. Like Noob Saibot fusing with his older self, or the aforementioned Quan Chi kidnapping Scorpion's son, or Kitana and Mileena having their faces switched, etc.
I hope to fucking god NO ending comes true, but there it is.


But it seem odd to me for someone to hate and despise Sareena so much over having ice powers when...as you succintly put it...
Sareena doesn't have ice powers, she's not GOING to have ice powers, no one ever wanted her to have ice powers, end of story.
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You-Know-Who
11/26/2008 01:39 PM (UTC)
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XiahouDun84 Wrote:
RazorsEdge701 Wrote:
I didn't even know there were people thinking the MKA endings would turn out to be canon.

There are actually a fair share of people who are expecting/hoping at least parts of some endings will come true. Like Noob Saibot fusing with his older self, or the aforementioned Quan Chi kidnapping Scorpion's son, or Kitana and Mileena having their faces switched, etc.
I hope to fucking god NO ending comes true, but there it is.


But it seem odd to me for someone to hate and despise Sareena so much over having ice powers when...as you succintly put it...
Sareena doesn't have ice powers, she's not GOING to have ice powers, no one ever wanted her to have ice powers, end of story.


No offense, Xia, but if Sareena gets ice powers, you are going to look mighty foolish. I wouldn't put it past the MK Team, after all. tongue

I actually would not mind seeing Kitana and Mileena's faces swapped, if just for the emotional changes it would create in the characters. Ingmar Bergman often said that sometimes the right face being filmed at exactly the right moment can be far more powerful than any line of dialogue. The face is a powerful thing. If there was some driving force behind Kitana and Mileena switching appearances, and it actually forced Kitana to be the outcast for a change, and gave Mileena rule of the roost, I think there is a lot of potential there, actually. The rest of those scenarios listed are crap, though.

Two more unpopular Armageddon tidbits I don't mind that other people hate:

1) Liu Kang defeating Raiden, forcing him to face the sentence of the Elder Gods, and taking over from Fujin, who goes on to replace Raiden. The Thunder God being sentenced to the Netherealm, or something, would be sadly ironic, and brings the Mortal Kombat story to a weird sort of "full circle." Kang also deserves some kind of nod for being the series' main hero for a large portion of the games.

2) Kano's "Black Dragon" thing. Personally, I feel his character deserves some kind of "Kano's back!" revenge. He's not a bad character, and actually has a lot of potential. The MK Team just got stuck in a rut with him, and never bothered to really pull Kano out. Surviving once again, and being turned into a beast with the power to actually get some revenge gets him out there, and would allow him one last farewell game as a "send-off" to one of the MK Originals (probably the most under-developed of them all).

The more and more I think about the next game, the more and more I find myself cutting more fat. Here are the characters I'd definitely be inclined to bring back:

1. Sub-Zero
2. Scorpion
3. Sonya Blade
4. Kitana
5. Shao Kahn
6. Kenshi
7. Li Mei

The following returning characters are secret:

8. Liu Kang
9. Kano (just human mode)
10. Shang Tsung
11. Taven

It's a weird list, but I'll explain it all a bit later on. I'm far too tired now. There are reasons for bringing each of them back. I'd maybe consider adding Sareena, just because she was apparently awesome to play as, and she never really had a chance. I'm not too interested in the character, though, but I have to be unbiased with my list. I'd be more likely to have her a character you unlock rather than one playable from the start, though. Make her a fun reward.
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XiahouDun84
11/27/2008 06:10 AM (UTC)
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You-Know-Who Wrote:
No offense, Xia, but if Sareena gets ice powers, you are going to look mighty foolish. I wouldn't put it past the MK Team, after all. tongue

Wouldn't be the first time. Obviously there's no idea too dumb for the folks at Midway.
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RazorsEdge701
11/27/2008 06:17 AM (UTC)
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Y'all can be pessimistic all you like, but common sense says Sareena's moves ain't gonna change. Simply put, there's no precedent for it.
A character's special moves define them as much as their actual storyline does in the eyes of the player, if not more. The only time they have EVER radically altered a character's entire moveset before were Shinnok and Jarek, and that was because they used to be copies of others and it didn't work out. Sareena was not a copy of other characters before, she's not going to suddenly become Frost 2.0 now.
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assassinLM
12/24/2008 12:50 AM (UTC)
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Shujinko, I hate that little bastard!
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Thrawn
12/24/2008 07:03 AM (UTC)
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I actually liked the idea of Sareena getting ice powers and joining the Lin Kuei.
Advance the character. Come up with some explanation I going to just pull magic out of the air here. Raiden as an elder god rewards Sareena by making shedding her demonic aspects and making her human and a cryomancer.

The story possibilities are too good to pass up.

First by having a female Sub Zero and Frost being a villain and dead you combine her and Sareena essentially getting rid of a redundant character and enabling lots of growth for Sareena. We don't need more pointless assassins running around and this would make Sareena more distinct.

By having her become a ally of Sub Zero and fighting against her old boss Quan Chi you that creates nice new possibilities in the story for dramatic tension. This enable you to bring in Jataka and Kia more assassins to hunt down Sareena. Cat fight but it makes sense.

It also lets you play with the Noob/Quan Chi/Sub Zero triangle since Sareena has ties to all of them. She had something of a connection to Noob when he was Sub Zero since he spared her and was going to help her escape the Nether realm.

This could lead to tension between Noob and the his brother Sub Zero. A fallen warrior now in her former positon and her in his a member of the Lin Kuei. The irony of the role reversal is too delicious to pass up. Why else would Sareena upon escaping the Netherrealm seek out Sub Zero the brother of Noob?

Razorsedge701 mentioned keeping her same special moves. Fine I agree. She had the fastest knife throw in the game, she can still have that just make it an ice knife. The ability was established in mkda. Instead of big bulky weapons just have her throw little icicles which are entirely lethal.
Her mutil kick just have her slide up to them with ice under her feet like and add a few ice particle effects.

It seems like a logical progression of her character that has been built up since mk mythologies, mkda, mkd, and mka.

And on topic please leave Liu kang dead. Please if nothing else happens in mk9, Ed Boon please here my prayers and leave him dead.

Then leave Lei Mei, Kai, Bo Ra Cho, Kenshi, Kobra, Dairou, Hotaru gone and hopefully dead.

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XiahouDun84
12/24/2008 07:12 AM (UTC)
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Thrawn Wrote:
Raiden as an elder god rewards Sareena by making shedding her demonic aspects and making her human and a cryomancer.

By doing that, you just removed an interesting conflict present in Sareena's character...that she wants to be good in spite of her demonic side....and replaced it with redundant ice powers.


Thrawn Wrote:
By having her become a ally of Sub Zero and fighting against her old boss Quan Chi you that creates nice new possibilities in the story for dramatic tension. This enable you to bring in Jataka and Kia more assassins to hunt down Sareena. Cat fight but it makes sense.
It also lets you play with the Noob/Quan Chi/Sub Zero triangle since Sareena has ties to all of them. She had something of a connection to Noob when he was Sub Zero since he spared her and was going to help her escape the Nether realm.
This could lead to tension between Noob and the his brother Sub Zero. A fallen warrior now in her former positon and her in his a member of the Lin Kuei. The irony of the role reversal is too delicious to pass up. Why else would Sareena upon escaping the Netherrealm seek out Sub Zero the brother of Noob?

And why is Sareena getting ice powers necessary for any of this? She can do all this just as she is.
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Thrawn
12/24/2008 08:24 AM (UTC)
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You get rid of the conflicting nature issue which leads to character progression and can be used to fuel resentment and jealously on the part of Kia and Jataka who could be tasked with hunting down and killing Sareena for escaping enslavement in the netherrealm and also further strengthens her ties and parallels to Sub Zero/Noob/Scorpion.

As far as the ice powers people like Frost and Sareena. I wouldn't be upset if Frost returns but I feel the logical progression of that character is death. She is a villain and she wants to challenge Sub Zero for leadership of the Lin Kuei. She does that, she loses and dies.

As I explained above you can give Sareena ice powers and keep her same special moves logically which strengthens her character and progresses it at the same time.

You also keep the female Sub Zero concept which is too cool (no pun intended) to pass up. Let's not forget that when the first screens of mk2 were released people though Kitana was a female Sub Zero. It just is cool.

If you look at Sareena's history the ground work has been laid so this isn't out of left field. You may not agree with this story direction but the pieces are there if the mk team ever decides to go this direction.

In the what if ending of mka becoming a human and joining Sub Zero in the Lin Kuei to fight against her old master Quan Chi is what she would like more than anything. I see nothing wrong with progressing that story.

It also would personally piss Quan Chi off to know that one of his former assassin slaves escaped his power and is now aligned with his one of his to most powerful and hated enemies Sub Zero. He is one of the most powerful villains in the mk world and you he would have to take a personal interest in destroying Sareena and Sub Zero.

I just see to many delicous story possiblities here.
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Thrawn
12/24/2008 08:46 AM (UTC)
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By the way XiahouDun84, I love your pic of Sareena. She is one of my favorite characters.
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RoninDrake
12/24/2008 07:20 PM (UTC)
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Getting rid of conflicting nature does not automatically create character progression. In fact, I think she's better off as a character with these inner demons (pun partially intended). She is trying to be good DESPITE her nature driving her to be the demon that she really is. Confliction like that in a character is way better than without any whatsoever, like Liu Kang. (I'm the good guy. I must do what's right.)

She can still be on the receiving end of jelousy from Kia and Jataaka for overcoming her demonic nature, especially if she did it without any help from some other magical source. I'd say the same about a few of the parallels you were mentioning too.

I'm just gonna have to disagree on how ice powers would automatically strengthen and progress the character. It seems to me more like an attempt to change a few basic things about the character to appease this notion of her joining the Lin Kuei, who don't all have ice powers btw.

Which leads to Frost, the female Sub-Zero and one of the only other members of the Lin Kuei to have powers over ice, as I recall from her bio when she was introduced. The idea, in and of itself, is copying another character, which I tend to dislike. I prefer characters that are more unique and individualized. By giving Sareena ice powers, I believe you take away some of that individuality, even if you only add a few ice particles and effects to her current moves.

Given the MKA ending for her, this, admittedly, is not coming out of left field, but I still don't like it. The thing about the Armageddon endings is that, as you put it, it is "what she would like more than anything." When do you ever see a character get something like that anywhere other than the end of their story? You don't get what you've always dreamed of getting until you're done. What more is there to fight for?

Again you point out that this would piss off Quan Chi, to have one of his former servants align with one of his enemies, and, like Xiahoudun before me, I have to ask why she has to get ice powers in order for that to happen? She can align with the Lin Kuei without ice powers, since Smoke, Cyrax, and Sektor didn't and they were a part of the Lin Kuei. She is fine with the abilities she already has.

Now, as for the overall topic, I think I'd get rid of the following:

Kano: His scheming can only take him so far, and I think he's gone far enough.

Liu Kang: I was glad when it was done in DA. Let's go back to that happy time.

Goro: Switched sides too many times. Let's switch back to being dead.

Baraka: Never amounted to anything more than a poor henchman. Doesn't have the brains to be much more.

Jax: I just can't see anywhere for him to go.

Mileena: What else can this Kitana clone, literally, do for the storyline?

Chameleon: Do I need a reason?

Kabal: He's been changed so drastically since his introduction, and all in the name of chaos. Let him be lost in the chaos of Armageddon.

Motaro: Centaurs cursed to be Minotaurs??? Please die.

Sindel: Just as a way of progressing the overall story, she needs to be dead again and leave Edenia to her daughter.

Jarek: He should have been dead after being dropped off the cliff.

Meat: No reason, no purpose, and first name Dead.

Blaze: Logical after Armageddon.

Bo' Rai Cho: There are others that need to age out and replace him. He's trained some of the best, now let him rest with that knowledge.

Frost: I preferred her as a oneshot in DA and didn't care for her return. betrayers be damned.

Hsu Hao: Again, I preferred him dying in DA.

Mavado: He was fine when everyone thought he was in charge of the Red Dragon, but now that we know he's second banana, there's no need to keep him.

Mokap: See Chameleon

Moloch: He doesn't have the potential his partner does. Death to the brute.

Darrius: We've seen the revolutionary's tricks, and hopefully Dairou has as well and will take his revenge.

Hotaru: Order is not the kind of motivation I like to see. Be done with the man.

Kobra: Do we really need another martial artist that just came upon powers? Do we need one that kills for the fun of it?

Shujinko: Old and powerful as he is, he should be killed in his attempt to take on the villains all at once during Armageddon.

There are others that I can see aging out of their roles or spending some time on the sidelines as lingering threats, but this is the out right remove list for me.
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Thrawn
12/25/2008 01:48 PM (UTC)
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It's not necessary to give her ice powers and probably won't happen as I really don't see Sareena returning anytime soon (I would love to be proven wrong). I think however that since she is an assassin if you give her ice powers like I suggested above she doesn't need to necessarily freeze anybody.

It would be nice for the mk team to take it in another direction. Have her form ice knives and such as assassin implements and use ice to augment her kicks and punches etc. Different than Sub Zero and Frost.

Also it wasn't just the mka ending that brought up her joining the Lin Kuei. Since her debut in mk mythologies her connection to Sub Zero has been strengthened with each subsequent appearance.

I personally just don't prefer the whole I'm conflicted with my demonic nature, since other than will or won't she betray Sub Zero is the only place I see the mk team going with that particular storyline.

I also am keenly aware that not every member of the Lin Kuei has ice powers or even powers at all (probably why Cyrax and Sektor volunteered for automation?). I suggest it solely based on her connection to Sub Zero and Noob.

Also back on topic leave out any joke characters such as meat, mokap, or any other new pointless characters in line with meat and mokap.

Also want to reiterate please leave Liu Kang and his zombie dead. Also Merry Christmas Mortal Kombat fans!!
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XiahouDun84
12/25/2008 07:04 PM (UTC)
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Thrawn Wrote:
I personally just don't prefer the whole I'm conflicted with my demonic nature, since other than will or won't she betray Sub Zero is the only place I see the mk team going with that particular storyline.

Then the problem is you're only looking at Sareena as just a supporting character in Sub-Zero's story.

Personally, I don't want Sareena to merely be yet another one of Sub-Zero's buddies. She can be his ally and they can interact, but I don't want her storyline dependant on him. She has enough of a story to be her own individual protagonist. Her internal conflict, how she deals with it, and what she does & what she goes through to overcome it doesn't really need to have Sub-Zero involved.

I think Sareena's personal journey is potentially far more interesting than anything she could possibly do as merely Sub-Zero's lady friend.
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RoninDrake
12/25/2008 07:19 PM (UTC)
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Another thing that catches my attention is that Thrawn's justification is that Sareena has a "connection" to Sub-Zero and that is why she should get ice powers.

The problem:

- Johnny Cage has a connection to Raiden, but does not have abilities involving lightning.

- Mileena has a connection to Shang Tsung, but does not have the ability to take someone's soul.

- Etc., etc.

And why is that? Because the reason these people have their basic abilities is tied to their origins and NOT who they are acquainted with. Raiden is a god of thunder, and no amount of closeness will give you similar powers. Shang Tsung is on the receiving end of some sort of curse that requires him to take souls in order to maintain his youth, so unless someone falls to the same curse they probably wouldn't see the same powers. And Sub-Zero is descended from a race of cryomancers, and no matter how good a friend Sareena might be, she isn't a part of that bloodline that might give her ice powers.

Just out of curiousity, what was your idea of Sareena getting ice powers, Thrawn? Just something that happened randomly after Armageddon?
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Chrome
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About Me

12/26/2008 09:00 AM (UTC)
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XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Thrawn Wrote:
I personally just don't prefer the whole I'm conflicted with my demonic nature, since other than will or won't she betray Sub Zero is the only place I see the mk team going with that particular storyline.

Then the problem is you're only looking at Sareena as just a supporting character in Sub-Zero's story.



And isn't she one?
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RazorsEdge701
12/26/2008 12:28 PM (UTC)
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In a fighting game, every playable character is the main character of their own story.
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Thrawn
12/26/2008 02:06 PM (UTC)
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Alright I've only got a limited amount of time to respond here because I've got to be back at work in about 5 hours and won't be able to respond again until tonight but let me hit the specific points made by my fellow posters.

In response to XiahouDun84, I love Sareena but a main protagonist she is not. Potential? Yes. Do I see the mk team developing her as such? No. As interesting as we find her she is ultimately just an assassin and lackey of Quan Chi. Nothing overly distinctive there. Mileena, Jade, Frost, Rain, Reptile, Noob, Smoke, even Kitana started as an assassin. My point is Sareena please have a seat and take a number there are other people ahead of you in line.

Sub Zero is one of the 3 most important characters to the mk franchise, Raiden and Scorpion being the other 2. It was because of her participation and link to Sub Zero's story that she got an light shined on her in my opinion.

See mythologies, mkdate and mka ending. All the Sareena lore and appearances we have and all involving Sub. Sareena can be a strong character in her own right but being allied and involved with one of the big 3 characters which also leads to possible involvement with Scorpion, Noob, Smoke, and Quan Chi can only help not hurt the character imo.

In response to RoninDrake I think you are misrepresenting my earlier points. I mean that respectfully. The character connections you mentioned above are superficial and not really relevant in my opinion to the Sareena/Sub Zero connection.

Shang Tsung created Mileena but obviously she wouldn't have the ability to drain souls like Shang since that is his curse and gimmick. Quan Chi doesn't have that ability nor am I calling for it just because he is a Sorcerer too. I am familiar with the most of the character bios in all their various media appearances. Let's not be silly.

As for ice powers not being in her bloodline I wouldn't expect them to be she is a demon. That was my point. Sareena's main goal is/was to escape from the netherealm and to not be enslaved to anyone or anything. Independence is the key motivator for her in my eyes. Second to that is becoming human some how since she was trying to keep her human form.

The reason could be anything. The mk universe has many realms and is populated by gods, sorcerers, demons, magical amulets and talismans, mythical cities etc.

Judging by how randomly some of the stories seemed cobbled together just to explain how every character even dead ones appeared in Armageddon I would expect her story to probably for better or worse go something like this:

Sareena seeks sanctuary with one of Quan Chi's greatest enemies, Sub Zero after escaping the netherealm. Sareena knows some of Quan Chi's and Shinnok's secrets and has invaluable knowledge that the heroes of earthrealm can use against them etc.

However due to her demonic and conflicting nature Sub Zero and Sareena know that she can never fully be trusted or be certain she will remain free of servitude in the netherealm. Sub Zero seeks counsel from Raiden who suggests a quest for some magical thing as old as the realms that has the ability to give Sareena her most fervent desire, humantiy thus freeing her from enslavement to her evil overlords.

This serves as a quest to prove Sareena's commitment to fight against her old masters.

I don't know that took me all of 5 minutes to put together but seems at least halfway reasonable. I've never suggested a bio before but since you asked that would be my suggestion. I know your floored by my creativity and super genius (Hold the applause please).



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RazorsEdge701
12/26/2008 05:52 PM (UTC)
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None of that explains why you think she should have ice powers.

I mean the idea's got no upside. Not one.

P.S. Shang is NOT the only character who steals souls. For the love of god, this is elementary information, why have I seen people forget or overlook it so many times? The ENTIRE plot of MK3 revolves around Shao Kahn being the master of that particular craft.
How is it that everyone can remember off the top of their damn heads "Oh, Shang was cursed to age fast, that's why he needs to steal souls", which comes from an obscure-ass limited edition comic book from 1992, and was never once actually mentioned within a game, but can't seem to remember THIS?
Sometimes I feel like a college professor trying to teach advanced physics to 6th graders. This message board must be what my Hell will look like when I die.
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XiahouDun84
12/26/2008 07:15 PM (UTC)
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Chrome Wrote:
And isn't she one?

As of now.

I'm speaking of her future.


Thrawn Wrote:
In response to XiahouDun84, I love Sareena but a main protagonist she is not. Potential? Yes. Do I see the mk team developing her as such? No. As interesting as we find her she is ultimately just an assassin and lackey of Quan Chi. Nothing overly distinctive there. Mileena, Jade, Frost, Rain, Reptile, Noob, Smoke, even Kitana started as an assassin. My point is Sareena please have a seat and take a number there are other people ahead of you in line.

Sub Zero is one of the 3 most important characters to the mk franchise, Raiden and Scorpion being the other 2. It was because of her participation and link to Sub Zero's story that she got an light shined on her in my opinion.

I don't understand the point you're making about Sareena being an assassin. Are you assuming that's what I think she should be or that should be her defining role in the story? Because it's not.
And besides, what you're saying is you'd rather she be a lackey of Sub-Zero? I don't want her to be a lackey period.

Sareena should be high on the priority list because she's a fresh face who got a fairly warm reception and does have great future potential....unlike many of the stale and boring sacred cows who should be wiped away to create the new generation.
Sareena can be and I think should be one of the next generation stars.

Yeah, Sareena's connection to Sub-Zero brought her to the game....but she should grow beyond that. Personally, of all her possible storylines and relationships, Sareena's tie to the current Sub-Zero is the one I'm LEAST interested in. She can be better than that. Otherwise....what? They smother her in Sub-Zero's shadow so that when they do finally decide to do something with her no one will care anymore?
Granted the MK team might not do anything good with Sareena because they're idiots who prefer to squander every good thing they stumble into....but I can point out the obvious.
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Thrawn
12/27/2008 04:40 AM (UTC)
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Whoops. Forgot Shao Kahn. No big deal. Also since Shao Kahn is Shang Tsung's master and in Shang's mka bio it mentions that they are tied to each other even in death if I recall, it might be possible Shao Kahn had something to do with Shang's curse now that I think about it since he did have the power to restore Shang's youth.

Also RazorsEdge701 I reread my above post and I didn't state that Shang was the only one who could drain souls nor was it implied. What I did say was that stealing souls was Shang Tsung's primary gimmick which is true.

Back to Sareena now, based on her continued fascination and involvement with Sub Zero, if she were to somehow lose her demonic nature and become human, it is clear to me from her possible mka ending she would like to be a cryomancer. The character seems to want it. Otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting it. That is a good reason. If the character wants it, it is reasonable to assume that she could find some way to pursue it based on all the crazy stuff in the realms.

As far as not seeing an upside, a character who manages to improve her situation and become a completely different entity could be interesting.

RazorsEdge701 you don't agree with me and that's okay. I don't agree with you either on this issue. I have explained my point of view in the above topics that's the best I can do. We will just have to agree to disagree on this particular story direction.



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Thrawn
12/27/2008 05:02 AM (UTC)
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XiahouDun84 my only point about her being an assassin is that is what she is now. It is really her only defining characteristic at this point and we have lots of hired killers already.

I think she should be an ally seeking sanctuary or member of Sub Zero's clan, not a lackey. It wasn't my intention to suggest that. Being an ally doesn't automatically mean lackey. She is a fairly formidable warrior after all.

I don't think being allied or associated with Sub Zero means a slip in stature. My point above being Sub is one of the 2 most popular characters and a vital role in his story for a game or two would ultimately pay dividends for her character if done correctly by the mk team.

I also would love for Sareena to return in any form in a future game I just think the chances are not the best based on the very idea you are advocating of wiping away the old characters. Sareena is an old character. She has been around since mk mythologies. She is new to the solo fighting series but that is all.

Half the roster always returns which is good, their stories get to progress, If the old characters keep getting replaced they don't get to advance. My only dislike of new characters is the mk team' s track record isn't that great lately. They usually end up giving us one note characters or archetypes. They also reuse old special moves, so we end up with basically and old character reskinned.

Jarek was a bad reskinned Kano clone in mk4. Just give me Kano.

Lei Mei, female outworld Liu Kang. "I'm fighting to save my village and now I'm being trained by the same master who trained my male counter part."

Hsu Hao. Need I say more? Bland generic bad guy with metal body part and Kano's fighting style.

Hotaru. I'm a guardsmen from the realm of rules and order. And guess what? I fight for order. Blah.

I would rather mostly old characters return and get properly fleshed out and have the inter character relationships be expanded with only 3-4 new characters introduced as the mk team actually gets a good idea for one.

Sometimes I think that based on Ed Boon's propensity to not repeat and introduce as much new as possible they don't take the time to actually explore the potential of the good ideas and characters they already have.

However in Ed Boon's defense it is his constant desire to reinvent that has kept mk selling and still grabbing headlines all these years for 8 games so far. I just think that they need to find a proper balance between the old and new. Don't think they have done that yet.

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RoninDrake
12/27/2008 05:45 AM (UTC)
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Okay, let me put this in simple terms.

Aside from all the storyline things you seem to be wanting to get rid of, like the inner conflict of her demonic nature, I have a different problem. Even if Sareena were to no longer be a demon, she wouldn't automatically be of the cryomancer race. She just wouldn't be a demon.

And as for what the character seems to want, I think she's just geared more towards not being a demon anymore than being specifically being anything else.
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