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XiahouDun84 Wrote:
I think this is kind of a weak arguement.
By this logic, we should never have had Kung Lao because we already had a "heroic Shaolin monk" in Liu Kang....even though Kung Lao was superior to Liu is almost every way.
Or we should never have gotten Quan Chi because we already had a "conniving evil sorcerer" with Shang Tsung....even though, aside from that, they're very different characters.
Baraka407 Wrote:
I just said that the "demon who wants to be good" plot was used by a character in MK:D. I couldn't care less who did it first. The point is that two characters now, Sareena and Ashrah, are occupying the same archtype.
I just said that the "demon who wants to be good" plot was used by a character in MK:D. I couldn't care less who did it first. The point is that two characters now, Sareena and Ashrah, are occupying the same archtype.
I think this is kind of a weak arguement.
By this logic, we should never have had Kung Lao because we already had a "heroic Shaolin monk" in Liu Kang....even though Kung Lao was superior to Liu is almost every way.
Or we should never have gotten Quan Chi because we already had a "conniving evil sorcerer" with Shang Tsung....even though, aside from that, they're very different characters.
To me, this is just a matter of perspective and what's been compelling in the past and what has the potential to be compelling going forward.
Even if you take Ashrah and Sareena down drastically different paths, or you just dump Ashrah entirely (and I'd have no problem with that), Sareena, to me at least, isn't compelling enough to say that I HAVE to have her back.
I like her. I think that she has potential, but I simply don't see what you and Razor see in her. At least not to that extent. To me, she was in that crappy side project Mythologies. Then she was in TE and then she was incredibly average (again, just my opinion) in Armageddon.
Her look, her moves, her story, everything the MK team did with her to this point, in my opinion, has been average. Not bad, but certainly not to the point where I'd think "she's awesome, she's been awesome and I think the MK team will make her awesome going forward."
I agree that her sharing an archtype with Ashrah isn't exactly the best bullet in my gun here as far as why I don't need her to return, but for me, it's just another bullet, another knock against her.
I mean, there could be a whole category for a type of character with the phrase "who swears revenge" after it. So it's not like that was the final strike against her.
But if you're talking about Liu Kang and Kung Lao, the big difference for me is that one's the Chosen One and one simply isn't. To me, that's far more compelling, especially for the character that's NOT the chosen one, especially coming from a family of champions.
Shang Tsung and Quan Chi? I agree, they're similar archtypes. The scheming sorcerers. That's why they were so complimentary as essentially interchangeable bosses in MK:DA. But if you'll notice, Quan Chi isn't on my list of people that I want back.
So yes, the MK universe DOES have multiple overlapping archtypes. But that doesn't make it right and that's simply not something I'd like to see going forward.
See to I don't even regard Ashrah as "struggling to turn good." She was a demon, found the Kriss, and has been killing evil things ever since. We've little sense of any internal struggle for her....she comes across much more of a self-righteous "If I kill it, it's because it's evil and I'm right."
We were introduced to Ashrah has one step away from purifing herself and since then, she's gone on to attempting genocide against Nitara's people. I really cannot see how Sareena becomes redundant in Ashrah's presence.
Yeah, they're both demons who, in some way/shape/form, want to be "good." Beyond that, the execution of these characters are very different. Just aesthetically speaking, by appearances alone, they're night and day. The could improve special moves where they need be improved and maybe even incorporate they difference in general gameplay: where Sareena is swift, speedy, and maybe offensive oriented...you could have Ashrah slower, steady, and more defensive.
And like I said, I think they could only complement one another by playing they're difference against each other. That's what an antithesis character is: the other side of the same coin.
Even if you take Ashrah and Sareena down drastically different paths, or you just dump Ashrah entirely (and I'd have no problem with that), Sareena, to me at least, isn't compelling enough to say that I HAVE to have her back.
I like her. I think that she has potential, but I simply don't see what you and Razor see in her. At least not to that extent. To me, she was in that crappy side project Mythologies. Then she was in TE and then she was incredibly average (again, just my opinion) in Armageddon.
Her look, her moves, her story, everything the MK team did with her to this point, in my opinion, has been average. Not bad, but certainly not to the point where I'd think "she's awesome, she's been awesome and I think the MK team will make her awesome going forward."
I agree that her sharing an archtype with Ashrah isn't exactly the best bullet in my gun here as far as why I don't need her to return, but for me, it's just another bullet, another knock against her.
I mean, there could be a whole category for a type of character with the phrase "who swears revenge" after it. So it's not like that was the final strike against her.
But if you're talking about Liu Kang and Kung Lao, the big difference for me is that one's the Chosen One and one simply isn't. To me, that's far more compelling, especially for the character that's NOT the chosen one, especially coming from a family of champions.
Shang Tsung and Quan Chi? I agree, they're similar archtypes. The scheming sorcerers. That's why they were so complimentary as essentially interchangeable bosses in MK:DA. But if you'll notice, Quan Chi isn't on my list of people that I want back.
So yes, the MK universe DOES have multiple overlapping archtypes. But that doesn't make it right and that's simply not something I'd like to see going forward.
Baraka407 Wrote:
I meant to imply that going forward in the future, if Sareena were using that as her personal struggle, as others have described, it would feel rather redundant because we've had two characters using that storyline already in the series.
I meant to imply that going forward in the future, if Sareena were using that as her personal struggle, as others have described, it would feel rather redundant because we've had two characters using that storyline already in the series.
See to I don't even regard Ashrah as "struggling to turn good." She was a demon, found the Kriss, and has been killing evil things ever since. We've little sense of any internal struggle for her....she comes across much more of a self-righteous "If I kill it, it's because it's evil and I'm right."
We were introduced to Ashrah has one step away from purifing herself and since then, she's gone on to attempting genocide against Nitara's people. I really cannot see how Sareena becomes redundant in Ashrah's presence.
Yeah, they're both demons who, in some way/shape/form, want to be "good." Beyond that, the execution of these characters are very different. Just aesthetically speaking, by appearances alone, they're night and day. The could improve special moves where they need be improved and maybe even incorporate they difference in general gameplay: where Sareena is swift, speedy, and maybe offensive oriented...you could have Ashrah slower, steady, and more defensive.
And like I said, I think they could only complement one another by playing they're difference against each other. That's what an antithesis character is: the other side of the same coin.
Again, this is just a matter of perspective. You choose not to see Ashrah as "wanting to be good." I do see her that way because, well, why else would she pick up the kriss and start fighting to get out of the Nethrealm? Sure, it's a sucky place, but why give her that story if she doesn't want some sort of redemption?
Regardless. I see what you're saying overall and like I've said before, if they brought her back, I'd be fine with it. I really do think that she has potential, I just think that some people on this site love her a little too much considering her track record thus far, from her moves, look etc to the story they've actually provided for her so far.
If you don't agree with that, well Xia (and Razor for that matter) then that's fine. Completely fine. I agree with you two on a lot of other things, but we obviously don't agree on everything. You two both see a large amount of potential in her and while I see potential as well, I look at her as whole and what she's been thus far and I don't share the level of optimism that you guys do. That's all, no biggie.
Regardless. I see what you're saying overall and like I've said before, if they brought her back, I'd be fine with it. I really do think that she has potential, I just think that some people on this site love her a little too much considering her track record thus far, from her moves, look etc to the story they've actually provided for her so far.
If you don't agree with that, well Xia (and Razor for that matter) then that's fine. Completely fine. I agree with you two on a lot of other things, but we obviously don't agree on everything. You two both see a large amount of potential in her and while I see potential as well, I look at her as whole and what she's been thus far and I don't share the level of optimism that you guys do. That's all, no biggie.
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Yeeeeesh! Sorry for the messed up formatting. I think that I got a little carried away with my quotes and what not. Sorry about that!
Yeah, no more about Sareena.
Scorpion
Like Sub-Zero, Scorpion’s true name and origin are not known he has shown from time to time distrust and hatred towards Sub-Zero. Between ninjas, this is usually a sign of opposing clans.
Marked for death years ago by the Lin Kuei, Scorpion was murdered by Sub-Zero he left behind a wife and child in his former life but was allowed to return and avenge his death. Even with Scoprion’s triumph in the tournament and new title as Grand Champion, the price he paid was high. He can never again know his family and must exist forever with his secret curse.
The hell spawned specter rises from the pits. After learning of Sub-Zero’s return, he again stalks the ninja assassin, following him into the dark realm of Outworld where he continues his own unholy mission.
Upon learning of Sub-Zero’s reappearance, Scorpion enters Kahn’s tournament. He witness Sub-Zero spare the life of an opponent and realizes that this is not the same Sub-Zero who murdered him so long ago. He lets the ninja live and goes on to defeat the Outworlders in their unholoy contest. With the defeat of Kahn, Scorpion discovers a new purpose for his existence. He becomes the guardian of the new Sub-Zero to atone for murdering his older brother and in preparation for a third tournament.
When Kahn makes a failed attempt at stealing the souls which occupy Earth’s Hell, Scorpion in able to escape from the Nether region. Free to roam the Earth once more, Scorpions holds allegiance with no one. He’s a wild card in Earth’s struggle against the Outworld.
Scorpion is inadvertently released from his damnation in Hell when Kahn’s play to overtake that realm goes away. Free to roam Earth, Scorpion is enlisted by the emperor to aid him in his quest to destroy the chosen warriors. But his allegiance to Kahn falters when he discovers one of the chosen warriors to be Sub-Zero. Scorpion has bowed to protect the former ninja as restitution for killing his brother. Kahn finds himself the victim of his own scheme as Scorpion is forced to turn against him. He destroys the emperor and the earth is returned to normal. Scorpion finds himself once again roaming the pits of Hell only to one day rise again.
In hopes of gaining Scorpion as a new ally in the war with the elder gods, Quan Chi makes the dead ninja an offer he canot refuse. Life in exchange for his services as a warrion against the elders. Scorpion accepts but hids under ulterior motives.
Scorpion brings Quan Chi to the Netherrealm, blah blah blah, I’m not watching a youtube clip of his ending...
Scorpion had assumed for many years that Sub-Zero had hilled his family and clan, only to later discover that the true murderer was Quan Chi. After revealing his treachery, Quan Chi then attempted to send Scorpion to the 5th plane of the Netherealm. Thinking quickly, Scorpion grappled the sorcerer at the last moment and they were both transported to that forbidden realm. This turn of events boded well for Scorpion as his strength increased the longer he remained there. Quan Chi’s powers, however, proved to be useless against him. Scorpion hunted Quan Chi relentlessly throughout the Netherealm, thrashing him every chance he could. Eventually, Quan Chi enlisted the help of two Oni to protect him from the onslaught. When Quan Chi finally discovered a way out of the realm through a strange portal, Scorpion rushed to follow him. He emerged to Outworld but in a different location, far from his prey. He can still sense Quan Chi’s presence and will hunt him wherever he runs to. There is nowhere the sorcerer can hide.
Quan Chi led Scorpion to the palace of Shang Tsung, he entered the place and was discovered by the two Oni. He fought well but was overpowered. He was hurled into the Soulando and his body was ripped away by the purity of the realm.
In haste to confront Quan Chi, he was ambushed by two Oni and was cast into the Soulando. He was surely thought to be dead but he managed to escape into the Void. It was there that he set his eyes on the fabled Elder Gods. He would forever change by this encounter. While in the Void, he witnessed along with the Gods, Raiden’s death and the re-emergence of the Dragon King. Suddenly aware of his presence, the Gods transformed him into their servant and gave him a new purpose to prevent the Dragon King from merging the realms.
A weapon he was, he defeated many of the King’s allies and the king himself. He could only defeat the King.
Now, onto Scorpion...just like Reptile, you need to do something different in this game. His story has focused so much on his family and clan’s death that it’s literally starting to annoy me. I don’t understand how Scorpion is this badass of a character when in reality, he’s someone who cannot get over things. Yeah, death isn’t something easy to get over, but look at it this way, in the games that he appeared in, he could have. He really needs to let go, he confronted Quan Chi, tortured him until he lost him in the realm, that should have been it... But nope... Then, he’s a weapon and now what? He’s no longer that weapon? Shame... Scorpion is a horrible character to be honest... I have no idea why Boon would make him such a crappy character when we all know he’s his favorite.
The appearance that he has... I don’t know, he’s the only character that still acts like a ninja, but I’m tired of his look. I’m tired of the ninja look, it’s time to look like something different. I would still like him to have the yellow color be with him, just not looking like a ninja.
His moves are fine as well, they don’t bother me as much as his story and appearance.
I just don’t like his story at all. I understand you want revenge because your family was killed as well as your clan, but you know what? Who cares. I’m also sick and tired of people saying that his son should somehow make an appearance. I’ve been seeing that in fan submissions and you know what? How can he when he’s dead? What, are we supposed to have another Scorpion-like character that is bent on revenge to come back to life and find the person who killed him? No, I don’t want that, Scorpion’s family should not be apart of the MK storyline anymore, Scorpion needs to forget about them now and do something that’s actually worth doing something in this game. No more revenge shit, too many characters do that already. It’s time for something different.
I know he’s coming back, but if there was a debate on whether he should stay or leave, I’d say leave.
So, let’s debate. Should Scorpion stay or leave?
Scorpion
Like Sub-Zero, Scorpion’s true name and origin are not known he has shown from time to time distrust and hatred towards Sub-Zero. Between ninjas, this is usually a sign of opposing clans.
Marked for death years ago by the Lin Kuei, Scorpion was murdered by Sub-Zero he left behind a wife and child in his former life but was allowed to return and avenge his death. Even with Scoprion’s triumph in the tournament and new title as Grand Champion, the price he paid was high. He can never again know his family and must exist forever with his secret curse.
The hell spawned specter rises from the pits. After learning of Sub-Zero’s return, he again stalks the ninja assassin, following him into the dark realm of Outworld where he continues his own unholy mission.
Upon learning of Sub-Zero’s reappearance, Scorpion enters Kahn’s tournament. He witness Sub-Zero spare the life of an opponent and realizes that this is not the same Sub-Zero who murdered him so long ago. He lets the ninja live and goes on to defeat the Outworlders in their unholoy contest. With the defeat of Kahn, Scorpion discovers a new purpose for his existence. He becomes the guardian of the new Sub-Zero to atone for murdering his older brother and in preparation for a third tournament.
When Kahn makes a failed attempt at stealing the souls which occupy Earth’s Hell, Scorpion in able to escape from the Nether region. Free to roam the Earth once more, Scorpions holds allegiance with no one. He’s a wild card in Earth’s struggle against the Outworld.
Scorpion is inadvertently released from his damnation in Hell when Kahn’s play to overtake that realm goes away. Free to roam Earth, Scorpion is enlisted by the emperor to aid him in his quest to destroy the chosen warriors. But his allegiance to Kahn falters when he discovers one of the chosen warriors to be Sub-Zero. Scorpion has bowed to protect the former ninja as restitution for killing his brother. Kahn finds himself the victim of his own scheme as Scorpion is forced to turn against him. He destroys the emperor and the earth is returned to normal. Scorpion finds himself once again roaming the pits of Hell only to one day rise again.
In hopes of gaining Scorpion as a new ally in the war with the elder gods, Quan Chi makes the dead ninja an offer he canot refuse. Life in exchange for his services as a warrion against the elders. Scorpion accepts but hids under ulterior motives.
Scorpion brings Quan Chi to the Netherrealm, blah blah blah, I’m not watching a youtube clip of his ending...
Scorpion had assumed for many years that Sub-Zero had hilled his family and clan, only to later discover that the true murderer was Quan Chi. After revealing his treachery, Quan Chi then attempted to send Scorpion to the 5th plane of the Netherealm. Thinking quickly, Scorpion grappled the sorcerer at the last moment and they were both transported to that forbidden realm. This turn of events boded well for Scorpion as his strength increased the longer he remained there. Quan Chi’s powers, however, proved to be useless against him. Scorpion hunted Quan Chi relentlessly throughout the Netherealm, thrashing him every chance he could. Eventually, Quan Chi enlisted the help of two Oni to protect him from the onslaught. When Quan Chi finally discovered a way out of the realm through a strange portal, Scorpion rushed to follow him. He emerged to Outworld but in a different location, far from his prey. He can still sense Quan Chi’s presence and will hunt him wherever he runs to. There is nowhere the sorcerer can hide.
Quan Chi led Scorpion to the palace of Shang Tsung, he entered the place and was discovered by the two Oni. He fought well but was overpowered. He was hurled into the Soulando and his body was ripped away by the purity of the realm.
In haste to confront Quan Chi, he was ambushed by two Oni and was cast into the Soulando. He was surely thought to be dead but he managed to escape into the Void. It was there that he set his eyes on the fabled Elder Gods. He would forever change by this encounter. While in the Void, he witnessed along with the Gods, Raiden’s death and the re-emergence of the Dragon King. Suddenly aware of his presence, the Gods transformed him into their servant and gave him a new purpose to prevent the Dragon King from merging the realms.
A weapon he was, he defeated many of the King’s allies and the king himself. He could only defeat the King.
Now, onto Scorpion...just like Reptile, you need to do something different in this game. His story has focused so much on his family and clan’s death that it’s literally starting to annoy me. I don’t understand how Scorpion is this badass of a character when in reality, he’s someone who cannot get over things. Yeah, death isn’t something easy to get over, but look at it this way, in the games that he appeared in, he could have. He really needs to let go, he confronted Quan Chi, tortured him until he lost him in the realm, that should have been it... But nope... Then, he’s a weapon and now what? He’s no longer that weapon? Shame... Scorpion is a horrible character to be honest... I have no idea why Boon would make him such a crappy character when we all know he’s his favorite.
The appearance that he has... I don’t know, he’s the only character that still acts like a ninja, but I’m tired of his look. I’m tired of the ninja look, it’s time to look like something different. I would still like him to have the yellow color be with him, just not looking like a ninja.
His moves are fine as well, they don’t bother me as much as his story and appearance.
I just don’t like his story at all. I understand you want revenge because your family was killed as well as your clan, but you know what? Who cares. I’m also sick and tired of people saying that his son should somehow make an appearance. I’ve been seeing that in fan submissions and you know what? How can he when he’s dead? What, are we supposed to have another Scorpion-like character that is bent on revenge to come back to life and find the person who killed him? No, I don’t want that, Scorpion’s family should not be apart of the MK storyline anymore, Scorpion needs to forget about them now and do something that’s actually worth doing something in this game. No more revenge shit, too many characters do that already. It’s time for something different.
I know he’s coming back, but if there was a debate on whether he should stay or leave, I’d say leave.
So, let’s debate. Should Scorpion stay or leave?
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Should have stayed the elder gods' champion. I believe in foundational characters, so I'll vote stay, but he needs to stop being boring and redundant.
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Scorpion must and will stay!!No question about that!
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Once upon a time, Scorpion was my overall favorite character. Now though.....fuck him.
It's not even his search for revenge that's gotten tedious...it's that he's so mindless about it. I was excited at first in MK:DA, because you figure Scorpion wants revenge on Quan Chi....Quan Chi was one of the main villains....seems like it'd be a nice moment for Scorpion to play up his little "anti-hero who does what's right when it matters most" thing, which I always liked.
But nothing happened. He didn't interact with anyone or do anything except get punked out; not once, but twice. And he just keeps right on going with no change of plans or thought. No response, no reaction....just "Me am Scorpion. Me want revenge!"
But it seemed there was light at the end of that tunnel with his becoming Champion of the Elder Gods. I loved it. The best heroes were all taken out and enslaved, Raiden blew himself up, Onaga's a step away from blinking reality out of existence...so the Elder Gods' last hope goes to the rogue hellspawn anti-hero to save the day. And maybe, with things at their worst, maybe Scorpion finally realized there were bigger things going on than his petty grudges.
Should've been cool, right?
Nope.
They go and jump the shark in Armageddon. He only agreed to help the Elder Gods because (surprise) he wants his clan & family back. And when things don't go his way (because he fucked up), he wants revenge (surprise again). Made all the worse by his method of getting revenge: "I hate the Elder Gods, grrrr! So I'll attack Taven...because he's supposed to save the realms. Therefore, if I kill Taven, that wil be bad for the Elder Gods!"
Brilliant Scorpion.
I've gone on endlessly throughout my tenure here on what's going wrong with Scorpion, how they should fix him, etc. But you know what...at this point, I don't care. I really don't. He's going to come back no matter what, so they might as well try to salvage him...but I really don't give a shit anymore.
Since he'll back regardless....all I say is. for the love of God, no more revenge and no more of his clan & family. Whether that means becoming an anti-hero again or going full-on villainy or whatever...I don't care. Leave his clan & family dead and have him move the fuck on.
He'll be back, but I'm going to say GO anyway. Scorpion's dead to me now.
It's not even his search for revenge that's gotten tedious...it's that he's so mindless about it. I was excited at first in MK:DA, because you figure Scorpion wants revenge on Quan Chi....Quan Chi was one of the main villains....seems like it'd be a nice moment for Scorpion to play up his little "anti-hero who does what's right when it matters most" thing, which I always liked.
But nothing happened. He didn't interact with anyone or do anything except get punked out; not once, but twice. And he just keeps right on going with no change of plans or thought. No response, no reaction....just "Me am Scorpion. Me want revenge!"
But it seemed there was light at the end of that tunnel with his becoming Champion of the Elder Gods. I loved it. The best heroes were all taken out and enslaved, Raiden blew himself up, Onaga's a step away from blinking reality out of existence...so the Elder Gods' last hope goes to the rogue hellspawn anti-hero to save the day. And maybe, with things at their worst, maybe Scorpion finally realized there were bigger things going on than his petty grudges.
Should've been cool, right?
Nope.
They go and jump the shark in Armageddon. He only agreed to help the Elder Gods because (surprise) he wants his clan & family back. And when things don't go his way (because he fucked up), he wants revenge (surprise again). Made all the worse by his method of getting revenge: "I hate the Elder Gods, grrrr! So I'll attack Taven...because he's supposed to save the realms. Therefore, if I kill Taven, that wil be bad for the Elder Gods!"
Brilliant Scorpion.
I've gone on endlessly throughout my tenure here on what's going wrong with Scorpion, how they should fix him, etc. But you know what...at this point, I don't care. I really don't. He's going to come back no matter what, so they might as well try to salvage him...but I really don't give a shit anymore.
Since he'll back regardless....all I say is. for the love of God, no more revenge and no more of his clan & family. Whether that means becoming an anti-hero again or going full-on villainy or whatever...I don't care. Leave his clan & family dead and have him move the fuck on.
He'll be back, but I'm going to say GO anyway. Scorpion's dead to me now.
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Quick question: do they ever explain why Scorpion is able to consistently enter the Earth realm despite his whole "being dead' thing? Why is he a spectre, but everyone else becomes a green apparition when they die?
I get Noob's situation, since he went up in ranks in the Brotherhood of the Shadow and received passage via Shinnok, but why does Scorpion get free reign? Why doesn't everyone just walk out of the netherealm with super powers and kill their murderers?
I get Noob's situation, since he went up in ranks in the Brotherhood of the Shadow and received passage via Shinnok, but why does Scorpion get free reign? Why doesn't everyone just walk out of the netherealm with super powers and kill their murderers?
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
Quick question: do they ever explain why Scorpion is able to consistently enter the Earth realm despite his whole "being dead' thing? Why is he a spectre, but everyone else becomes a green apparition when they die?
Quick question: do they ever explain why Scorpion is able to consistently enter the Earth realm despite his whole "being dead' thing? Why is he a spectre, but everyone else becomes a green apparition when they die?
Although never stated, the strongest theory is because of Quan Chi and/or Shinnok.
After Mythologies, they had their own grudge against the elder Sub-Zero and who better to send than a certain pissed off ninja? So they made him a spectre and sent him to compete in Mortal Kombat. After he killed Subz, they pulled him back.
MK2...send him to kill the younger Subz. When he refuses, they pull him back. In MK3, he had to escape because of Shao Kahn's attempt to steal souls from the Netherealm....theoretically, because he wasn't interested in killing Sub-Zero. When Kahn was defeated and the portal closed, they pull him back.
MK4...well, he was working for them there. MK:DA, he escapes with the same portal Quan Chi used. Beyond that, the Elder Gods sent him back.
It's not a bullet-proof theory, but it's the one I support.
Stay... He will eventually change for the better. Boon can't make him a joke character every game. He has always been my fav and he is the reason I still play these MK games. But he needs to change and I believe he will. God I hope they use that sketch for his design the showed us a couple months ago.
I was just thinking of that scene in MKSM when Scorpion sinks into the hellfire and gives the thumbs up ala' Terminator 2 (which was just on today!). I must've laughed my ass off for a good 5 minutes after seeing that for how corny it was.
Ohhh.... what to do with Scorpy? You know, I think the MK Team actually had the right idea when they left him out of MK3. They left a lot of people out of MK3, and it showed that they were trying to move on. But fan demand brought him back, and now they don't dare leave him out of any game. He's become stale. Beyond stale. The guy doesn't actually do anything. He's always after revenge, but he never gets it. He never manages to accomplish anything aisde from killing Sub-Zero waaaaaaaay back in MK1.
*sigh* I don't know. I could see him being useful in a Netherealm plot as mentioned a couple times before. I guess .... ugh... STAY.
Ohhh.... what to do with Scorpy? You know, I think the MK Team actually had the right idea when they left him out of MK3. They left a lot of people out of MK3, and it showed that they were trying to move on. But fan demand brought him back, and now they don't dare leave him out of any game. He's become stale. Beyond stale. The guy doesn't actually do anything. He's always after revenge, but he never gets it. He never manages to accomplish anything aisde from killing Sub-Zero waaaaaaaay back in MK1.
*sigh* I don't know. I could see him being useful in a Netherealm plot as mentioned a couple times before. I guess .... ugh... STAY.
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Scorpion use to be my favorite character, till they messed up his story.
Now he's just the revenge guy. I remember when MKD came out. And I was excited to find out that Scorpion was the champion of the Elder Gods. Then in Armageddon they had him being angery at the Elder Gods, and he was trying to kill Taven(who had never done anything to him).
He should go, and never come back. But because he's Ed Boon's favorite character, he'll be back.
The sad thing is that there are some people who like Scorpion better as the guy who's pissed off, instead of the old Scorpion who wanted to regain his honor.
Now he's just the revenge guy. I remember when MKD came out. And I was excited to find out that Scorpion was the champion of the Elder Gods. Then in Armageddon they had him being angery at the Elder Gods, and he was trying to kill Taven(who had never done anything to him).
He should go, and never come back. But because he's Ed Boon's favorite character, he'll be back.
The sad thing is that there are some people who like Scorpion better as the guy who's pissed off, instead of the old Scorpion who wanted to regain his honor.
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Stay, but he desperately needs to go back a step to being Champion of the Elder Gods.
Anyway, Baraka, I didn't intend it my last post to sound like you offended me, I probably just sound mad every time I talk about Ashrah 'cause I hate her. Which brings me to the whole problem with your argument, which is two-fold.
Firstly, the problem with saying "Sareena and Ashrah both occupy the same archetype, so that's why Sareena shouldn't come back" is that it's implying Ashrah is the one who should, that Sareena should get out of her way, which is the exact opposite of a good idea.
Ashrah is the one who should never come back, and if she were gotten rid of, then her and Sareena having similar storylines wouldn't matter, would it? Everything would be fine.
Secondly, "she has a lot of story potential, but are any of those stories necessary?" is a dumb argument. NOBODY is necessary. A good roster isn't made up of bland, robotic archetypes designed just to move the plot along, that would be fuckin' boring. It should be made up of the characters who are the most INTERESTING.
That's the last I have to say about it. The Sareena portion of the thread is over, I just wanted to get those last thoughts off my chest before moving on.
Anyway, Baraka, I didn't intend it my last post to sound like you offended me, I probably just sound mad every time I talk about Ashrah 'cause I hate her. Which brings me to the whole problem with your argument, which is two-fold.
Firstly, the problem with saying "Sareena and Ashrah both occupy the same archetype, so that's why Sareena shouldn't come back" is that it's implying Ashrah is the one who should, that Sareena should get out of her way, which is the exact opposite of a good idea.
Ashrah is the one who should never come back, and if she were gotten rid of, then her and Sareena having similar storylines wouldn't matter, would it? Everything would be fine.
Secondly, "she has a lot of story potential, but are any of those stories necessary?" is a dumb argument. NOBODY is necessary. A good roster isn't made up of bland, robotic archetypes designed just to move the plot along, that would be fuckin' boring. It should be made up of the characters who are the most INTERESTING.
That's the last I have to say about it. The Sareena portion of the thread is over, I just wanted to get those last thoughts off my chest before moving on.
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0
Wow, talk about a character that gets pigeon-holed. Sure, alot of it comes from his stories, which all seem to make him out to be "the revenge guy," but to me, his story has much more of a flow to it than that simple label implies.
He wants revenge against the original Sub Zero for killing him and he gets it. He mistakenly believes that the new Sub Zero is the original, then vows to protect him, which he does again in UMK3. After this, we find out that it was Quan Chi who killed his family.
Look, say what you will about Scorpion "always wanting revenge" but WTF people? If you were killed and you came back from the dead, wouldn't you want revenge on the person that killed you? Same goes for your family and your... umm... ninja... clan.
So yeah, when that's revealed to him, you don't think that's good motivation for him to return again, to press on and right what he feels has been wronged?
Then they make him the champion of the Elder Gods which, and I agree with Razor COMPLETELY on this one... The MK team absolutely needs to make him their champion again. Either ignore the fact that this part of Armageddon happened entirely, make it so he was always their choice and not Taven or have him defeat Blaze, thus making him their champion or any combination of those things that would make the story work.
I think that at the most, his story is a little tedious, but I don't think that it's nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. It's not like he's Johnny Cage, who just makes a freakin movie for every one of his endings.
As for his look, I think that they make him look cooler in each game that he's been in since his plain looks in UMK3 and MK4. They seem to get a little more inventive with each passing game.
However, I think that Scorpion needs a drastic change for the next game. If he's going to be the Champion of the Elder Gods, as I'd like to see him, I say he ditches the ninja costume altogether. Make it an alt costume of course, but his primary should be white and gold, with flowing cloths, where he looks more ethereal and slightly regal, as opposed to being a hell spawn.
I might even de-mask him. Oh, and wasn't his name originally Hanzo? Yeah, I'd make him human and change his name to Hanzo, if that's indeed the case. I can't remember where I read that though. But yeah, give him an alt costume where his name is Scorpion and he looks more traditional, but I'd say that a new look and name like this would give him a lot more story potential going forward.
I've been okay with his stories in the past, but I see good things ahead for him (hopefully, please don't mess this up MK team!).
As for his moves, well, I've always liked them, maybe he gets more of a pure looking blue and white flame instead of hellfire? Just a thought. But yeah, keep most of his moves and add some new ones. It's Scorpion, he uses fire... There's plenty of ideas just waiting to be discovered.
VERDICT: STAY.
I'm just throwing this out there as my own opinion, but I think that MK3 was the worst MK game and part of the reason why was due to the absence of Scorpion and Rayden. Not saying they both have to be in every game, but for me at least, I miss both of these guys when they're not in games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gone: 33, saved: 17
Saved thus far: Baraka, Drahmin, Ermac, Fujin, Hotaru, Kabal, Kai, Kano, Kenshi, Kira, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Nitara, Noob, Rayden and Scorpion.
He wants revenge against the original Sub Zero for killing him and he gets it. He mistakenly believes that the new Sub Zero is the original, then vows to protect him, which he does again in UMK3. After this, we find out that it was Quan Chi who killed his family.
Look, say what you will about Scorpion "always wanting revenge" but WTF people? If you were killed and you came back from the dead, wouldn't you want revenge on the person that killed you? Same goes for your family and your... umm... ninja... clan.
So yeah, when that's revealed to him, you don't think that's good motivation for him to return again, to press on and right what he feels has been wronged?
Then they make him the champion of the Elder Gods which, and I agree with Razor COMPLETELY on this one... The MK team absolutely needs to make him their champion again. Either ignore the fact that this part of Armageddon happened entirely, make it so he was always their choice and not Taven or have him defeat Blaze, thus making him their champion or any combination of those things that would make the story work.
I think that at the most, his story is a little tedious, but I don't think that it's nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. It's not like he's Johnny Cage, who just makes a freakin movie for every one of his endings.
As for his look, I think that they make him look cooler in each game that he's been in since his plain looks in UMK3 and MK4. They seem to get a little more inventive with each passing game.
However, I think that Scorpion needs a drastic change for the next game. If he's going to be the Champion of the Elder Gods, as I'd like to see him, I say he ditches the ninja costume altogether. Make it an alt costume of course, but his primary should be white and gold, with flowing cloths, where he looks more ethereal and slightly regal, as opposed to being a hell spawn.
I might even de-mask him. Oh, and wasn't his name originally Hanzo? Yeah, I'd make him human and change his name to Hanzo, if that's indeed the case. I can't remember where I read that though. But yeah, give him an alt costume where his name is Scorpion and he looks more traditional, but I'd say that a new look and name like this would give him a lot more story potential going forward.
I've been okay with his stories in the past, but I see good things ahead for him (hopefully, please don't mess this up MK team!).
As for his moves, well, I've always liked them, maybe he gets more of a pure looking blue and white flame instead of hellfire? Just a thought. But yeah, keep most of his moves and add some new ones. It's Scorpion, he uses fire... There's plenty of ideas just waiting to be discovered.
VERDICT: STAY.
I'm just throwing this out there as my own opinion, but I think that MK3 was the worst MK game and part of the reason why was due to the absence of Scorpion and Rayden. Not saying they both have to be in every game, but for me at least, I miss both of these guys when they're not in games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gone: 33, saved: 17
Saved thus far: Baraka, Drahmin, Ermac, Fujin, Hotaru, Kabal, Kai, Kano, Kenshi, Kira, Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Nitara, Noob, Rayden and Scorpion.
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0
I'm not going to jump on Scorpion like most others do, whether it be that he's a ninja, or his story is poor. I like Scorpion, but I think the Champion of the Elder Gods thing is not for him, at all. I'd like to see Scorpion not be neutral, and certainly not good. He doesn't have to work for anybody. He can just be a bad ass spectre. It seems like Vincent Price had the right idea with the little story he gave, if I remember it correctly. Plus, I kind of compare the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry to the Lakers and Celtics. You see it a lot, but it's still quite exciting (Granted, Lakers and Celtics are actually happening in real life, hahaha!). That's just me speaking, though, and I'm well aware I'm in the minority, and I'm not trying to grind anybody's gears by saying that. I say stay for Scorpion.
0
Scorps should stay but he definitely needs a new look and a new story. A few new moves wouldn't hurt as well. Of the two original ninjas that came out with the first MK, I'd much prefer Skullface than Mr. Freeze anytime. Sure Subby's got cool moves and a badass costume but as a personality, he's boring as fuck.
Scorps new story should be like Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn. Scorp would find out that he's some hellspawn and back in the Netherrealm, he could gather up an army of demons to fight the warlords of that realm where his aim is to conquer and dominate. This would be a better motivation for him than his old revenge motive. His new look could be like his "Monster" look in MK Deception. Or he could be depicted as taking the form of a demon or satan like being, since I believe that is the only logical step for him, costume wise. He can't go back to being a ninja, he might as well rule hell/netherrealm, now that would be interesting. As ruler of hell, he could finally dispose of shitty characters like Quan Chi or Shinnok or Drahmin or whatever.
Frankly, I never had a problem with his never-ending vendetta concerning his family. If your family got massacred like that. wouldn't you be filled with a malignant hatred for the perpetrators. Just my opinion but Scorps as the angel (or demon) of vengeance is ok.
Scorps new story should be like Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn. Scorp would find out that he's some hellspawn and back in the Netherrealm, he could gather up an army of demons to fight the warlords of that realm where his aim is to conquer and dominate. This would be a better motivation for him than his old revenge motive. His new look could be like his "Monster" look in MK Deception. Or he could be depicted as taking the form of a demon or satan like being, since I believe that is the only logical step for him, costume wise. He can't go back to being a ninja, he might as well rule hell/netherrealm, now that would be interesting. As ruler of hell, he could finally dispose of shitty characters like Quan Chi or Shinnok or Drahmin or whatever.
Frankly, I never had a problem with his never-ending vendetta concerning his family. If your family got massacred like that. wouldn't you be filled with a malignant hatred for the perpetrators. Just my opinion but Scorps as the angel (or demon) of vengeance is ok.
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0
Reptile1112 Wrote:
I'm not going to jump on Scorpion like most others do, whether it be that he's a ninja, or his story is poor. I like Scorpion, but I think the Champion of the Elder Gods thing is not for him, at all. I'd like to see Scorpion not be neutral, and certainly not good. He doesn't have to work for anybody. He can just be a bad ass spectre. It seems like Vincent Price had the right idea with the little story he gave, if I remember it correctly. Plus, I kind of compare the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry to the Lakers and Celtics. You see it a lot, but it's still quite exciting (Granted, Lakers and Celtics are actually happening in real life, hahaha!). That's just me speaking, though, and I'm well aware I'm in the minority, and I'm not trying to grind anybody's gears by saying that. I say stay for Scorpion.
I'm not going to jump on Scorpion like most others do, whether it be that he's a ninja, or his story is poor. I like Scorpion, but I think the Champion of the Elder Gods thing is not for him, at all. I'd like to see Scorpion not be neutral, and certainly not good. He doesn't have to work for anybody. He can just be a bad ass spectre. It seems like Vincent Price had the right idea with the little story he gave, if I remember it correctly. Plus, I kind of compare the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry to the Lakers and Celtics. You see it a lot, but it's still quite exciting (Granted, Lakers and Celtics are actually happening in real life, hahaha!). That's just me speaking, though, and I'm well aware I'm in the minority, and I'm not trying to grind anybody's gears by saying that. I say stay for Scorpion.
I dunno, if this were Virtua Fighter or something like that, where they honestly don't give a crap at all about story, or DOA, who's story is so incomprehensible that it's basically irrelevant, or Street Fighter, which is so campy it makes MK look like Hamlet, I'd probably agree with you about Scorpion not needing a real story and just being a bad ass ninja spectre.
But I like my characters to have depth to them, maybe some shades of gray and I think that the more complex these characters are, the better. But that's fine if you disagree. I mean, that's what this whole thing is for, right? We're all just throwin our 2 cents in here.
Lakers versus Celtics? I can honestly say that I couldn't give a crap about either of these teams. I wanted to see Magic vs Suns. Give me something that I haven't seen a million times already. To me, that's why the Blackhawks / Flyers series is so freakin awesome. Two teams that are desperate to end their ridiculously long cup droughts, playing their hearts out and going to the wire each night. Both Lakers and Celtics almost have a dullness about them, like "been there, done that." Where's the excitement?
I have zero idea how that rant correlates to MK lol. Sorry!
Anyways, as far as Scorpion goes, if they just brought him back like he's always been, I won't mind, I'll just be slightly disappointed though. I think that they have a real opportunity to do something different with him right now considering that this really feels like a dividing point in the series between the past and what could be a bright future.
We'll see!
0
Scorpion.... oh scorpion...
I love this character so much its not even funny. I was 3 years old running around yelling "get over here!" to my dad. ahh good times.
His story has been one that ive followed very avidly. from the fights with subby, to chasing quan chi. to being the elder gods champion to declairing war against them. I feel sorry for him but im always rooting for him.
Hes gone through alot and to be, is always the first character i grab in every game until MKA. which he was the second.
I cant immagine MK withou thim. STAY x1000
I love this character so much its not even funny. I was 3 years old running around yelling "get over here!" to my dad. ahh good times.
His story has been one that ive followed very avidly. from the fights with subby, to chasing quan chi. to being the elder gods champion to declairing war against them. I feel sorry for him but im always rooting for him.
Hes gone through alot and to be, is always the first character i grab in every game until MKA. which he was the second.
I cant immagine MK withou thim. STAY x1000
0
To me, Scorpion is easily the most boring and tedious character in MK history. I've tried to like him but he's just so dull! Quan Chi is one of my all time favourite characters but I'd rather he die at Scorpions hands and be gone just so we can put an end to the increasingly tedious revenge storyline. After that, I'd be happy if Scorpion found peace and left never to return. If they found him another role that wa sof interest then I guess he can stay but I probably wouldn't be too thrilled with it. It's sad really. My dislike for him is solely due to the MK Teams lack of effort in making him interesting. the whole Champion of the Elder Gods plot wasn't the way to do that, imo. He's one character that has overstayed his welcome, imo. Mascot or not.
GO!
GO!
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Baraka407 Wrote:
I dunno, if this were Virtua Fighter or something like that, where they honestly don't give a crap at all about story, or DOA, who's story is so incomprehensible that it's basically irrelevant, or Street Fighter, which is so campy it makes MK look like Hamlet, I'd probably agree with you about Scorpion not needing a real story and just being a bad ass ninja spectre.
But I like my characters to have depth to them, maybe some shades of gray and I think that the more complex these characters are, the better. But that's fine if you disagree. I mean, that's what this whole thing is for, right? We're all just throwin our 2 cents in here.
Lakers versus Celtics? I can honestly say that I couldn't give a crap about either of these teams. I wanted to see Magic vs Suns. Give me something that I haven't seen a million times already. To me, that's why the Blackhawks / Flyers series is so freakin awesome. Two teams that are desperate to end their ridiculously long cup droughts, playing their hearts out and going to the wire each night. Both Lakers and Celtics almost have a dullness about them, like "been there, done that." Where's the excitement?
I have zero idea how that rant correlates to MK lol. Sorry!
Anyways, as far as Scorpion goes, if they just brought him back like he's always been, I won't mind, I'll just be slightly disappointed though. I think that they have a real opportunity to do something different with him right now considering that this really feels like a dividing point in the series between the past and what could be a bright future.
We'll see!
Reptile1112 Wrote:
I'm not going to jump on Scorpion like most others do, whether it be that he's a ninja, or his story is poor. I like Scorpion, but I think the Champion of the Elder Gods thing is not for him, at all. I'd like to see Scorpion not be neutral, and certainly not good. He doesn't have to work for anybody. He can just be a bad ass spectre. It seems like Vincent Price had the right idea with the little story he gave, if I remember it correctly. Plus, I kind of compare the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry to the Lakers and Celtics. You see it a lot, but it's still quite exciting (Granted, Lakers and Celtics are actually happening in real life, hahaha!). That's just me speaking, though, and I'm well aware I'm in the minority, and I'm not trying to grind anybody's gears by saying that. I say stay for Scorpion.
I'm not going to jump on Scorpion like most others do, whether it be that he's a ninja, or his story is poor. I like Scorpion, but I think the Champion of the Elder Gods thing is not for him, at all. I'd like to see Scorpion not be neutral, and certainly not good. He doesn't have to work for anybody. He can just be a bad ass spectre. It seems like Vincent Price had the right idea with the little story he gave, if I remember it correctly. Plus, I kind of compare the Scorpion/Sub-Zero rivalry to the Lakers and Celtics. You see it a lot, but it's still quite exciting (Granted, Lakers and Celtics are actually happening in real life, hahaha!). That's just me speaking, though, and I'm well aware I'm in the minority, and I'm not trying to grind anybody's gears by saying that. I say stay for Scorpion.
I dunno, if this were Virtua Fighter or something like that, where they honestly don't give a crap at all about story, or DOA, who's story is so incomprehensible that it's basically irrelevant, or Street Fighter, which is so campy it makes MK look like Hamlet, I'd probably agree with you about Scorpion not needing a real story and just being a bad ass ninja spectre.
But I like my characters to have depth to them, maybe some shades of gray and I think that the more complex these characters are, the better. But that's fine if you disagree. I mean, that's what this whole thing is for, right? We're all just throwin our 2 cents in here.
Lakers versus Celtics? I can honestly say that I couldn't give a crap about either of these teams. I wanted to see Magic vs Suns. Give me something that I haven't seen a million times already. To me, that's why the Blackhawks / Flyers series is so freakin awesome. Two teams that are desperate to end their ridiculously long cup droughts, playing their hearts out and going to the wire each night. Both Lakers and Celtics almost have a dullness about them, like "been there, done that." Where's the excitement?
I have zero idea how that rant correlates to MK lol. Sorry!
Anyways, as far as Scorpion goes, if they just brought him back like he's always been, I won't mind, I'll just be slightly disappointed though. I think that they have a real opportunity to do something different with him right now considering that this really feels like a dividing point in the series between the past and what could be a bright future.
We'll see!
I can see what you mean about characters having complexity to them, I like that too actually! I just don't feel that Scorpion needs to be a complex character. It seems like there are some characters, like Kitana and Quan Chi, where complexity and a great amount of depth is garuanteed (maybe that's just from my perspective). I think there shoould be balance between the characters, and all of them should recieve the exact same attention. But at the same time, it's nice to see a character who has a more simple story, and we don't know everything about him. In the beginning, his family was killed, and he wanted revenge. That worked for me. I definately see what you're saying, though. Thanks for not stepping on my thoughts completely, it's sometimes hard to find that around here.
By the way, I personally wanted the Sun and Celtics. Hahahah!
As previously stated, the only way I would want Scorpion back is if he got a complete story overhall. However, I would want sort of a different take on him as far as his look goes. Don't make him a spectre anymore. Make him an actual ninja clan whose clan just wears yellow.
And also have him have nothing to do with Sub-Zero.
And also have him have nothing to do with Sub-Zero.
Scorpion: Well there is really no point to arguing, because he will be in every game, but for the hell of it I'll debate. First let me say that Scorpion is awesome, because his look and move set are always so bad ass. There is a good reason why he is the series mascot. I actually like his story. His character depth doesn't solely rely on vengence, but other factors. Like how he has to climb his way out of hell, and how he gives an F U to both good and evil factions. I would like to see him do more to impact the story. If he killed Shao Khan or Goro it would really help establish his bad assness. At this point he's kind of like a Boba Fett. Every body loves him for being bad ass, but he hasn't done that much bad ass things.
Verdict: Give him a better story and have him F shit up. Stay.
Verdict: Give him a better story and have him F shit up. Stay.
Ooh, good analogy with the Boba Fett thing. Right on the money.
For me, I totally understand his quest for revenge. In the beginning, that's really all the motivation you need to kickstart a character with. And it worked. He got his revenge and killed Sub-Zero. Then what? He's back for more revenge. If he's not after Sub-Zero, he's after Quan Chi, and it seems like he never gets what he's after.
His Armageddon ending was the final straw. He gets his family and clan back. His son is by his side. Finally everything's paid off. And then Quan Chi just happens to pop in and kidnap his son. Off on another revenge quest! Goddammit, MK Team. The endings for everyone in MKA were crap anyway, but that particular one really just threw sand in my eyes.
WTF MK Team? WTF? In fact, I think from now on I should end every post in this thread with "WTF MK Team? WTF?" It seems appropriate given their track record of taking giant, diarrhea dumps on their own characters.
If he must stay, and we all know he must, PLEASE, PLEASE give him something else to do.
For me, I totally understand his quest for revenge. In the beginning, that's really all the motivation you need to kickstart a character with. And it worked. He got his revenge and killed Sub-Zero. Then what? He's back for more revenge. If he's not after Sub-Zero, he's after Quan Chi, and it seems like he never gets what he's after.
His Armageddon ending was the final straw. He gets his family and clan back. His son is by his side. Finally everything's paid off. And then Quan Chi just happens to pop in and kidnap his son. Off on another revenge quest! Goddammit, MK Team. The endings for everyone in MKA were crap anyway, but that particular one really just threw sand in my eyes.
WTF MK Team? WTF? In fact, I think from now on I should end every post in this thread with "WTF MK Team? WTF?" It seems appropriate given their track record of taking giant, diarrhea dumps on their own characters.
If he must stay, and we all know he must, PLEASE, PLEASE give him something else to do.
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