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XiahouDun84
04/03/2010 05:52 PM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
I think making Kung Lao the victor of MK2 would have been the more reasonable and satisfying outcome. But what's done is done.

Funny thing...but it was originally suggested Kung Lao had won Mortal Kombat II.

From his original Mortal Kombat III bio:
"After avenging the death of his great ancestor by emerging Supreme Champion against all Outworld opponents..."

Kind of implies he won, eh? His bio also uses the phrase "Lao's greatest challenge lies ahead." This exact phrase was used in Kung Lao's MKII ending.
However, with the release of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, that little bit about Kung Lao emerging victorious is suddenly omitted from his bio.

Personally, I always thought they bet on the wrong horse by having Kung Lao do the job at the end of MK3 to make Liu Kang look better. If I had my way, Liu would've been offed in MK2...leaving Kung Lao as the last hope for MK3.

But as you said....what's done is done.
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Shadaloo
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MK Khronology: 58.49% complete...
04/03/2010 09:56 PM (UTC)
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I'm really hoping for King Kung to finally step up and take a leadership role in the next MK. The more I think about it, the more I hate the "Raiden-splosion" that started off MKD; the ruination of Kitana's revenge plot goes again for Kung. What would be great would be to have the White Lotus under Kung Lao take an offensive role for once, methinks, against whatever big bad challenge is up next.

That said, and as much I'd rather have him present over Liu Kang, I have to admit he's slowly wearing out his welcome. I'd prefer it if he were phased out of the cast after one more game.

Verdict: STAY...just one more time.
EDIT: Temp, tgrant...thanks for the welcome. It's great to be back!
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You-Know-Who
04/05/2010 08:35 AM (UTC)
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XiahouDun84 Wrote:
Funny thing...but it was originally suggested Kung Lao had won Mortal Kombat II.

From his original Mortal Kombat III bio:
"After avenging the death of his great ancestor by emerging Supreme Champion against all Outworld opponents..."

Kind of implies he won, eh? His bio also uses the phrase "Lao's greatest challenge lies ahead." This exact phrase was used in Kung Lao's MKII ending.
However, with the release of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, that little bit about Kung Lao emerging victorious is suddenly omitted from his bio.

Personally, I always thought they bet on the wrong horse by having Kung Lao do the job at the end of MK3 to make Liu Kang look better. If I had my way, Liu would've been offed in MK2...leaving Kung Lao as the last hope for MK3.

But as you said....what's done is done.


That really confused me when I was younger. I always took Liu Kang as the winner, but then Kung Lao had that bio. While it made sense later for Kang to be the victor, so that it became Lao's time to step-up, I think that without hindsight, Lao beating Shao Kahn in MKII would definitely have been the better move.

Not to write off Liu Kang, though. I think it would have allowed Kang to grow and develop, too. Kung Lao could have his mind set on killing Shao Kahn, but Liu Kang could tell him that is not the way he should do things. Kung Lao listens to Liu Kang, and after defeating Shao Kahn, spares him his life. This could be a huge fuck-up for Kang, as when Kahn invades Earthrealm, Kung Lao is all "Dude, wtf...I told you so." Lao, as perhaps the overconfident hero, challenges Shao Kahn again -- but this time is killed because Kahn has absorbed all the souls in Earthrealm.

This fuel would have given Liu Kang the fire he needed to challenge and defeat Shao Kahn, freeing Earthrealm from his control. But he would always be haunted by the death of a great Earth warrior he respected, if he did not like. That alone would be enough for me, but in the sometimes hokey world of Mortal Kombat, they could have done something cheesy like this:

MK4 comes around and Shinnok, the boss of the underworld, is the villain, right? If Kung Lao died with such unneccessary rage in his heart, Lao could have found himself suffering in the Netherrealm. Shinnok could have made a deal with Kung Lao -- "fight with me, and I'll give you Liu Kang."

Yeah, I can't imagine too many people liking that; but it'd have been interesting, soap operatic development for both guys.
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tgrant
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Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
04/05/2010 07:45 PM (UTC)
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I've always liked Kung Lao. I remember back before MK2 came out and I saw a picture of him in game (in a games mag) for the first time and they'd made a joke about his hat. I remember thinking how badass and cool he looked and couldn't wait to use him. He's become my second favourite character in the series and has always (with the exception of MK3, imo) been one of the better characters gameplay wise. His hate is one of MK's best trademarks and distinguishing features and the Shaolin Monks intro did it full justice.
Storywise, like others I've eejoyed his reluctant hero theme. He seemed to me to be the better candidate for the role of hero. I disliekd how he was portrayed in Shaolin Monks and then again in his MKA ending as the jealous of Liu Kang type. Also, the fact that they set him up for big things and then just had him killed, resurrected and put under Onaga's control was madness. It makes me feel like someone had it in for Kung Lao. Either that or they listened to the fanboy outcry after Kang's death and decided not to make Lao the 'official' new hero.
Speaking of his MKA ending, it was the only one that I could see any potential from even though I still dislike all endings from that game. Imagine if Kung Lao did go back in time and change the past. I would have his reasons be more noble. He could do it to change the current present, eliminating known enemies before their chance to rise. He'd do it to take the burden of Champion from Liu Kang. He'd do it so that he could restore Liu Kang to life after failing to avenge his death. It would open up alot of different story arcs and remove certain characters and could've been the way to go for the 'all new MK' or whatever we were told of. However, I would prefer that MK continued forward time wise and not venture into the past.
Kung Lao should return but his story needs fixing. They need to give him back his original personality and ditch the rubbish they've been churning out for him lately.
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Icebaby
04/05/2010 07:52 PM (UTC)
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After reading your post, tgrant, I must say that many characters who have the potential of being a great character is shunned down like dirt with either a poor ending, a poor biography that changes everything from the previous ending, or something blatantly stupid happens with that character.

Kung Lao should have been the hero, but no, we get stuck with Bruce Lee as the hero of the series up until Deadly Alliance... Then, hell broke loose when he came back in Deception. We get a zombie as a damn hero... A zombie!

Many of you guys say that these characters deserve a lot better than what they've been getting throughout the series and I cannot express how right you all are.

It's things like this that should have someone who works on the stories in the MK team to actually go on this site and take a peek and be like "Oh, so they don't like it when this character comes back from the dead for the fifth time..."

I'll update this with the next character tomorrow.
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tgrant
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Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
04/05/2010 08:00 PM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:
After reading your post, tgrant, I must say that many characters who have the potential of being a great character is shunned down like dirt with either a poor ending, a poor biography that changes everything from the previous ending, or something blatantly stupid happens with that character.

I'm reminded of when I wrote this thread after seeing the MKA bios. I think there was alot of laziness going on with the story from MKD onwards. This is heavily emphasised with the stories for some of the stronger characters like Kung Lao, Kitana and others. Hopefully MK vs DCU has given them more time to work on something epic for MK8.
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Icebaby
04/05/2010 08:06 PM (UTC)
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tgrant Wrote:
I'm reminded of when I wrote this thread after seeing the MKA bios. I think there was alot of laziness going on with the story from MKD onwards. This is heavily emphasised with the stories for some of the stronger characters like Kung Lao, Kitana and others. Hopefully MK vs DCU has given them more time to work on something epic for MK8.


You're right about the laziness. After playing Armageddon and beating the game with Sub-Zero, Frost and Kitana, I stopped playing the Arcade because I couldn't handle the crappy endings anymore.

And, since the biographies for majority of the characters in Armageddon are a joke anyways, I don't include them in this thread. It's not worthy to put something so lazy in a discussion like this.
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tgrant
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Project MKK: Coming soon...

Currently working on: MKD & MKA - The One Ring Theory
04/05/2010 08:27 PM (UTC)
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Icebaby Wrote:You're right about the laziness. After playing Armageddon and beating the game with Sub-Zero, Frost and Kitana, I stopped playing the Arcade because I couldn't handle the crappy endings anymore.
And, since the biographies for majority of the characters in Armageddon are a joke anyways, I don't include them in this thread. It's not worthy to put something so lazy in a discussion like this.

I can't blame you for stopping playing the game and for not including the endings here. I got MKA and played through it fully aware of the endings. I just had to see the damage for myself and hoped I'd be greeted by different endings and that the ones we knew of were fake. No such luck!
Going back to Kung Lao, I want to add that I loved his Fatalities throughout the games. Shaolin Monks gave him some of the funniest stuff I'd seen in a long time wih the ones that involved the bunny. I'd like to see more done with his hat in future games if he returns. This also applies to special moves. Again, Shaolin Monks did him justice there.
You-Know-Who Wrote:Kung Lao had his time, but I think the best opportunities to run with him have been missed. Pushing the character now would feel so forced and just wouldn't have the natural energy he had as the main protagonist in Deadly Alliance. To be honest, one could argue that from a storyline perspective, that should have been Kai's game, anyway.

Again, I say he should stay but you may be right about it coming across as forced if they push his story. If it did turn that way then I'd rather he go. They've done enough damage to him already.
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LycaniLLusion
04/05/2010 08:32 PM (UTC)
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i don't care really about Kung Lao...either way if he is in or not won't bother me.
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idkwat2putheresoimajustputthis
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How the fuck do you all get those giant pictures here? oh well this is good enough

04/06/2010 03:19 AM (UTC)
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Holy shit. You guys can really move fucking quickly. Lol.

Kung Lao

I like this character but he could use some minor adjustments.

One, he already has a weapon his bladed hat, right? Why does he need a sword? Take the sword out and use his hat as his weapon.

Second, PLEASE bring back his primary design from DA. His primary in Armageddon was just "bleh"
.
Third, his agenda (story) needs to stop being reused or he's going to end up like Baraka and Reptile same old shit for every game. He keeps getting revenge on something! I mean I understood Liu (Lui? sorry i don't how to spell it) but his past ones were just BORING!

VERDICT: STAY! On one condition. Make him the new hero. Lui's (again sorry if I misspelled) gone bad and this is his time to shine.


PS: Whatever happend to the Armageddon bio's? Are we still getting them? confused
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reppy
04/06/2010 03:39 AM (UTC)
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Not likely. That game's a few years old now and they have other projects to work on. Plus, for as bad as all the endings were, and seeing how most people kind of regard MKA as that black sheep that we just kind of ignore, I don't think it's worth the effort.
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Icebaby
04/06/2010 04:01 AM (UTC)
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idkwat2putheresoimajustputthis Wrote:
Holy shit. You guys can really move fucking quickly. Lol.


I change characters every 3-4 days depending on the character itself. If the character is worth debating, I keep them up for a good number of days, otherwise, I just leave the ones that no one cares about up for one day. Only because every character should be debated no matter how hated they are.

idkwat2putheresoimajustputthis Wrote:
PS: Whatever happend to the Armageddon bio's? Are we still getting them? confused


Reppy pretty much nailed it. We don't need to know their bios anyways, the game was a joke to begin with. It was poorly executed and since I've already told someone that I stopped playing the arcade mode because of three crappy endings, there shouldn't be a point on having bios if the endings are just utter crap.
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idkwat2putheresoimajustputthis
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How the fuck do you all get those giant pictures here? oh well this is good enough

04/06/2010 04:11 AM (UTC)
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"Only because every character should be debated no matter how hated they are."

That hit me straight to the heart.

"We don't need to know their bios anyways, the game was a joke to begin with."

That's right you tell it how it is.

That game was pure SHIT. Lazyness is the worst to show in a game. And that game had it not just wriiten all over it, it had it fucking SMEARED all over it.

MK team take as long as you want. I'm only 13 so I have alot of time before I turn old.
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Icebaby
04/06/2010 03:04 PM (UTC)
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Well, it's time to change characters. The next character up for debate;


Li Mei

The Deadly Alliance commanded Kano and his troops to force small population of people to construct a fortress. One of the enslaced was Li Mei, who rebelled against everything. She had warrior spirit inside of her, Quan Chi offered to free her people if she could win the tournament. If she didn’t, she was to serve the Deadly Alliance and her people forever. She accepted.

She discovered that the palace would be constructed around the ancient stone structure that has been regarded as a sacred relic for as long as anyone could remember. It was a portal to the heavens left by the God themselves as legends told it. When Quan Chi activated the portal, it was clear that the legends are true.

In the end, she was promised that her people would be freed if she won the tournament. Her soul was needed to be in the last soldier of the Dragon King’s army as she found out the true purpose was finally revealed to her. She was trapped inside the soldier and will serve to the Deadly Alliance forever.

In Deception, she was a fool to believe that Shang Tsung and Quan Chi were going to play fair and grant her and her people freedom. Bo’ Rai Cho intervened and saved her. She is forever in his debt. As her soul was in the warrior, her life changed her in many ways that she may never understand. Bo’ Rai Cho trained her during the time and felt a sense of duty to Outworld. But she cannot deny that she feels strangely drawn to a new power taking hold in Outworld.

The closer she got to the Dragon King, the more she came to understand which side was truly deserving of victory. She turned against her allies and gave Onaga the time he needed to finish merging the Komidogu. Transforming as his Queen now that he is more powerful than the Elder Gods, together they rule the One Realm and slay the last of the Elder Gods


Okay, I’m going to say this... Li Mei’s endings were horrible. They were, I can’t believe that the developers actually gave her such shitty endings. There was a large debate about this character in a different thread saying that she had potential in being a great character... she’s a servant that was trying to get out of being ruled by evil... but of course that was turned around and she was fooled. Later, she got out of it thanks to Bo’ Rai Cho, was trained by him, then later turned against him and the good guys to be a queen with Onaga. Her endings are just miserable, she had a great shot at being a good character, but now that’s not going to happen.

I liked her appearance, I hated the ugly face they gave her in Deadly Alliance, I’m glad they fixed that. She reminded me of someone I knew and I didn’t like that. I liked what she had in Deception, both of her costumes, even if the primary is a bit more revealing than the other. Still, it wouldn’t hurt to give her a touch of a different color than being all purple.

Her moves are fine, I wouldn’t change them, her fatalities on the other hand... I hated her Deadly Alliance fatality, her pressure point fatality was humorous and I never paid attention to the other one. Give her some better fatalities that’s all I have to say.

If her character gets better with no crappy M. Shamalamma’s twist, then I say give her a second chance to redeem herself as a character... whether she was going to be a good character or an evil character. I say stay, but for some reason I have a feeling that you’re not going to be in this game.

So, let’s debate. Should Li Mei stay or leave?
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reppy
04/06/2010 03:11 PM (UTC)
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I don't dislike her, but I don't really care either. I liked her concept art more than her finished costume (the one that the girls in the office said they would wear). Hm...

I say STAY if only because she hasn't been ruined yet. She could become a good character.
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jbthrash
04/06/2010 03:29 PM (UTC)
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Li Mei: She's alright. I liked her better than a lot of the new characters. However, I don't know where she fits in. Sonya and Kitana are the two female leads, and Li has similar qualites to them so I wonder. Do we really need another female lead? So I'm going to say that I like her look in MKD and I do see her fitting well with the roster, but her story needs to set her apart from the heroes in some way.

Verdict: A good looking character who does have potential. Stay.
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LycaniLLusion
04/06/2010 05:33 PM (UTC)
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reppy Wrote:
Not likely. That game's a few years old now and they have other projects to work on. Plus, for as bad as all the endings were, and seeing how most people kind of regard MKA as that black sheep that we just kind of ignore, I don't think it's worth the effort.


unlike many of you i liked MK:A a lot...its because i am not a big story line fanatic and am more for the action and fighting...ect ect. basically i looked at MK:A like i looked at trilogy...some of you don't like the huge roster...some of you think create a character is a waste of time...i loved it all and would welcome that stuff back any day. people have to realize that some stories are made for people not to like them...sometimes the story is done certain ways to shun characters to put them out of the way for new ones. its like a soap opera ya know. yeah...i agree some of the stories are stupid,don't make sense,have lots of plot holes or just don't match up but to me that is not important in a fighter. i know a lot of people looked at MK as a favorite for the deep story alone but for me that is not an issue...each character either has a what if ending or a fixed/canon ending. anyways...i am going off topic BAD ME! lol

lei may...i think she should only return if Bo returns...i never really used her much and hardy followed her story. honestly i think her story is just being carried by Bo's. but i dunno. stay i guess.
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idkwat2putheresoimajustputthis
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How the fuck do you all get those giant pictures here? oh well this is good enough

04/06/2010 05:45 PM (UTC)
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Li Mei

I like this character but I really can't say much about her.

Her endings are now that I look back really bad. She's got style that I don't know makes me want to like her but then her place as a character where does she stand?

Looks alright, fatalaties are ok, her sword is kinda corny but looks good with her.

I don't know what else to say about her confused

VERDICT: STAY
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mkdfan
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04/06/2010 06:52 PM (UTC)
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I like Li Mei, she was one of the best if not THE best new character from MKDA.
I liked her ending in MKDA but obv it wasnt canon.
Li Mei turning evil in MKD was a tad random. I think she should stay good if she is brought back.
I thought her special moves were cool, especially the flip kicks.
I say STAY.
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Baraka407
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<img src=http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb424/astro407/Baraka407---Baraka-Sig---GIF1.gif?t=1302751589

04/06/2010 06:54 PM (UTC)
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I don't know if the MK team used the same writers for MK:DA and MK:D, but to me, the latter are vastly inferior to the former.

Li Mei is a decent character that's made a lot better by not one, but two solid plotlines. First, she's the slave girl trying to save her people. Sure, it's basically Sonya trying to save her team in MK1, but it's different enough to the point where I'm okay with it.

But then, we get the "good person with a touch of evil in them." I dug that a lot. The fact that they made her look a bit skankier (and thankfully less in the man-face category as well) kinda made sense in where her character was heading.

Still, part of me kinda dislikes her for being what I'd consider to be the first "rip off" character in the series. Sure, hidden characters had ripped off moves, but that's different to me. Also, I know that MK Trilogy had about 30 ninjas in it, but they all had unique special moves and stories.

Li Mei has Mileena's sais, her sai throw special move, Mileena's color (or something close to her MK2 color) and even a similar name.

Now, i'm not nearly as tied to the color idea as I used to be. In fact, I kinda feel like many of the colors should be done away with in terms of "scorpion is the yellow/gold ninja, Reptile has to wear green" etc.

But even still, my initial reaction to her was that she seemed to be so similar to Mileena that she herself didn't seem to be overly necessary in terms of MK characters. I seriously expected some kind of code or secret to where you could actually unlock Mileena's MK2 costume for her.

As for her look, I like her MK:D look a lot better than her MK:DA look. She has a sort of pirate do-rag mixed with Japanese armor and while she still looks needlessly skanky, it's still a serviceable outfit.

VERDICT: GONE. She's not a bad character, but there's really nothing that makes me think she has to come back. Both of her storylines have kind of run their course to the point where I really don't need to know what happens next with her. Beyond that, her look, her moves etc aren't nearly enough to make me want to keep her in spite of her story etc.

Again, not bad, but if we're talking about upcoming MK games, I'd rather have a lot better than "not bad."
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Reptile1112
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You will die mortal. TOASTY Speed Metal will never die.

04/06/2010 08:11 PM (UTC)
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I was never a huge fan of Lei Mei. Never connected with her. I did like how she had her own tournament in Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, but that's really it. I wouldn't be hurt if she didn't come back, so I say gone.
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acidslayer
04/06/2010 08:45 PM (UTC)
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le mai i think is one of the best looking and unique female characters introduced after mk4 but i dislike her story or her alliance. i feel if she would become evil for some reason i'd like her alot more. maybe have her feud with kitana. she just doesn't seem all that important as a good gal for earthrealm.

so anyone else feel that way. if she does not have something big happen to her then i say gone for good.
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jrob9308
04/06/2010 09:06 PM (UTC)
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I think out of all the new characters from mk:da onwards, she is the best.Âa

Her storyline seems a bit messed at the moment with all theses stupid endings, but in story terms, she has potential.Âa
I was thinking of it setting her up to be one of the new main heroes of the game after lui kang EVENTUALY dies for good. Her training from Bo can allso fit into the whole "heroes being trained by him".

Her design is great, her look is great, her moves were AWESOME.

And the fact she was my main kinda Makes me want her back even more.

STAY DAMM IT!
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JaxFatality
04/06/2010 09:08 PM (UTC)
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KEEP Li Mei and Ashrah; They ROCK!

Ditch Mocap and Stryker; they suck.
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You-Know-Who
04/06/2010 09:23 PM (UTC)
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It took me a while to get used to her, but I really grew to adore Li Mei. Especially after Deception, when they gave her the skankier look, and the sweeter face. I remember even being slightly relieved she got another chance after Deadly Alliance, though (where she really did nothing to impress me).

Li Mei seems to be on a path not unlike Luke Skywalker from the Star Wars movies. She's found her Obi-Way Kenobi in Bo' Rai Cho, and she is learning from the same master that trained Liu Kang and Kung Lao. I think this is, canonically, enough of a set-up to really keep bringing her back as an Outworld protagonist for the series. It's good to have a bubbly fresh face with an investment in the ghetto of Mortal Kombat.
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