It seems like one argument is thriving in two threads. A message board phenomenon I haven't seen in a long time. In a way it's good. it's a sign we're starting to get more traffic again.


Do you mean more of a Soul Cailbur-esque system?

3 actually.

Even better... yet somehow worse.

I'm sorry about that. It's mainly my fault. I thought that I could have an informed, intelligent debate on something with Bigsyke and I was wrong. I don't seem to have any problem with anyone else that I don't agree with. Grimm and jbthrash don't want the next MK to be 3D? That's fine. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

But the way Bigsyke goes about trying to convince people (namely me) to his way of thinking through opinions supported by opinions, who he listens to over who he doesn't (a list of pro gamers that he's never talked to about MK from a gaming tournament that's geared towards 2D games versus critics, developers who give out awards for games and fans who buy the games), his half truths, his lies, or his flat out BS drove me up a wall.

I'm done with it though. At this point, I finally realize that I'm arguing with someone that has a child's mentality when it comes to arguing. I respect his opinion and I respectfully disagree with it, but I can't have a conversation with someone who just flat out makes things up or draws conclusions where conclusions can't be drawn and just flat out dismisses facts that don't agree with his view point.

To do so is simply aburd. It's the equivalent of banging my head against a wall hoping that I'll eventually get a drink of water. The two simply don't go together, much like rationally arguing with someone who's arguments are inherently irrational.

So yeah, I'm going to decide to be the more mature person here, because honestly someone has to eventually, and both apologize for hijacking 3 threads with this nonsense and for allowing myself to get baited by an obvious troll. I look at my posts to him and I honestly feel like a moron for even allowing myself to get baited so easily by his nonsense and trash.

Sorry! I'll try not to let it happen again. Hopefully when the rumor mill kicks in to an even high gear and more news starts coming out, we'll get enough traffic here where I won't have to even see him and hear his misguided views (not that liking 2D is misguided, it's not, just about everything he said that surrounded that opinion).

It's all cool. This early in the game, these arguments are harmless. And anyway, we'll need the debating XP for the new wave of n00b coming in the fall.

Wow, I actually just had a real shudder down the back of my spine lol.

You're right though, and that'll be intreresting, for sure!

Still, it'll be nice to see the activity go up on this board again. It's not bad right now, but I miss the good ol days

im not the voice of any one. they voice their own opinions by voting for the games at evo.

and i meant casual gamers dont like vf5 because its too hard. and since you love ign so much. they rated blazblue and street fighter 4 in the 9 and up range. mkvs dc got a 7.5.

and ign is bias in the console wars sometimes.


some people just dont know about fighting games. like casual gamers. thats why everytime a fighting game is not a button smasher they scream to mommy. they dont like challenges. they only want story and cgi endings, with cool ninja characters, with COOL MOVES.
im the only one trying to mature mk into a real deep fighter. yeah mk1-mk3 was good but only because of 2d, if it would have been 3d it would have been trash in terms of deep gameplay. so im taking mk back to 2d and deeper gameplay. just because a game is 3d does not make it deep.
and and street ighter ex did not get better reviews from ign compared to sf4. see 2d to 3d gets rated to above average to bad. sf4 got an A 9.3. thats what I want, a GREAT GAME. mk is soooo average. some of the reason it sales is because of the popularity of the 2d titles and hardcore blinded fans.

Top 10 Best Fighting Games
Posted: 2006-01-22 03:15:04.763

As I mentioned on my previous list, there is a difference between innovation and greatness. The fighting genre, whether 2D or 3D, has always been about kicking ass and having fun. However, this does not mean that a game with extra flash or easier mechanics is better than those that require a certain level of commitment, or vice versa. A good fighter is a balanced one (for the most part), with enough flair to impress newcomers and a level of strategy for the hardcore to absorb. A great fighter also has a diverse cast of characters with a unique style all to themselves, giving each player, regardless of their choice, a number of strengths and weaknesses.

The following list is what I consider the best of the best, regardless of what previous series and games have contributed. Some of these even bring a few new ideas of their own. These games are the best, and the height of their respective series. "Let's get ready to rumble!"


10. Marvel vs. Capcom 2

The Marvel vs. Capcom series has always been over-the-top, even been dubbed a button masher. I couldn't agree more. The original arcade incarnation had an especially large problem with this, with newbies being able to defeat seasoned veterans easily with the right characters and random moves. While it was fun to take down that guy challenging everyone in the arcade on my first try, it wasn't necessarily fair since I had no idea what I was doing. However, the sequel added more depth, more balance, and more actual fun than the original game, even if it still is damn cheap. While this is certainly one of the most flawed entries on the list, it does manage to do what most games can only dream of achieving: it's really fun! Wolverine and Mega Man teaming up to whoop your tail is certainly a combination I am fond of. However, there are better fighters out there, bringing me to my next choice.








9. Tekken 5

The Tekken series has never been one of my favorite series, but I do hold a lot of respect for it. I feel the majority are like the DOA series: all flash and no substance. Unlike the travesties that were Tag Tournament and 4, Tekken 5 was able to make the series feel whole and interesting again! The game looks slick, the balance is much sharper, and it is a great addition to any fighting aficionado. However, which the best game in the series: 3 or 5? Well, the obvious choice would be 5, especially since it includes Tekken 1, 2, and 3 for you to enjoy. The debate is over, you finicky fans! Heihachi may be getting old, but he still knows how to open up a can of whoopass...








8. Samurai Showdown IV

Like Tekken fans, most SS fans are split between which is the best game in their series. Some would believe it is II for propelling the series and being an overall fun game. IV, on the other hand, fixed the problems that were brought up in III while still being able to keep the game's awesome visuals. Based upon my choice for #8 in the countdown, I think you can tell what camp I belong to. II, while fun, was very unbalanced and had its share of problems (Ukyo + cheap = win). IV simply offers more to gamers looking for a good fight. Sure, it may not have Cham-Cham and a few other characters, but it certainly is a great weapons-based fighter that still remains one of Neo-Geo's best games. If you can find this in the arcades, pop in a quarter or two - you will not be disappointed!








7. Bushido Blade

Who would have that Squaresoft could make a fighter? A realistic fighter, where matches can end within a matter of milliseconds after just a single hit? Yep, that's Bushido Blade for you! The game is surprisingly deep for a game that, admittedly, has a few flaws here and there (hit detection can be a little iffy, from time to time). However, each character can technically use any weapon they want, with special abilities for certain weapons and characters that one has to discover and practice in order to master. Players can either go for their opponent's arms or legs to slow or disable them, or try to land one good hit to the torso or head to end the match. A real cool vibe emanates from the game too, with some awesome music and surprising attention to detail. Hardcore players only need apply, though.








6. Psychic Force 2012

If you're asking yourself, "What the bloody hell is Psychic Force 2012," you're not alone. This game, I believe, is a shockingly underrated fighter for the Sega Dreamcast. Most critics gave it mediocre or average scores, blowing it off as just "another anime fighter" that involved "cheap-ranged attacks." Inconceivable! This game has so much underneath it, with an awful lot to like for such a simple little game. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of hours my friends and I spent on this game wailing on each other. The balance is pretty decent with the exception of maybe one character (Setsuna), but it's not really a problem if you know what you are doing. The game requires players to master dashing, pull of mixed combos of melee and ranged combat, and all while flying inside a floating-cube arena! The Dreamcast controller might wear down your fingers to the bone after twenty minutes, though...








5. The King of Fighters '98/'02

Here we are in the top 5 and there is already a tie (and it won't be the last). This was one of my toughest decisions. '98 is probably the most balanced in the series in terms of gameplay, characters, and variety of moves. However, '02 has an awful lot to love about it, with plenty of unique and fun characters to choose from. Whichever one is your favorite, you can't go wrong with either of these KOF classics, arguably the two best additions to the series. I know for a fact that every single fan has their personal favorite. I happen to have two. And don't you dare mess with me when I got Athena, Mai, and Angel as my group!










4. The Last Blade 2

Another SNK game? Of course! While not as popular in the US as it should be, this is without a doubt one of the sweetest fighting games I have ever played. Incredible balance, hundreds of different strategies, and a diverse cast of characters. There isn't a thing about it that one couldn't love in a fighting game! Unlike other SNK games where choosing a "Speed" or "Power" style makes minimal difference (if you're good), one can actually find a significant change in the gameplay depending on one's choice. The majority of the characters utilize different weapons, but some of coolest moves are done with no swords or spears. The counter button also adds even more depth to an already amazing game. Perfect for any two players ready to rumble!








3. Street Fighter Alpha 3/Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike

Why another tie within the same series? To be honest, I didn't have it in me to choose which was better. Even if I could, then that would mean that two entries in the entire list would be devoted to the SF series, leaving all Marvel vs. Capcom fans out in the rain. I enjoy SFA3 because it's quick, fun, has a large cast of characters, and gives the player three different styles of fighting for each character. However, I will not deny it is annoying how there are so many "clone" characters of Ryu and Cammy. On the other hand, SFIII combines the feel of the original SF2 with a deeper fighting system and less clones. Although, I felt it played a bit slower than A3, something I happen to look for in 2D fighting games. No matter which camp you lay within, you can't really go wrong with any of these two if you need to get your fight on! Complete and utter balance in both games is slightly questionable, which is the reason why the SF series, even though it pretty much invented the modern fighting game, cannot be #1.










2. Soul Calibur

The best game for the Dreamcast is still one of the best fighters ever made. All other fighting games were blown out of the water when this sequel to SoulBlade hit the shells, and I'll be damned if I don't give credit where credit is due. This game rocks! Truly one of the deepest and most enjoyable fighters I have ever had the chance to play. Want proof of this game's greatness? SCII and SCIII, while not horrible games, are still considered sub-par when compared to the original in terms of balance and gameplay (at least by those who know fighting games). Sacrificing quality gaming for better graphics and cheap new moves does not make great games. Whether you're a speed demon in the arena or the kind of person who likes to play with long, hard swords...you'll find something to love about the original SC! It is kind of weird, though, how the majority of the US gamers hold this as the best overall 3D fighter. While certainly worthy of high praise, it clearly does not deserve that exact title. Which is why now we come to the #1 fighting game(s) of all time...








1. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution/Guilty Gear X2: The Midnight Carnival

Yup, one last tie for the win! I have played so many fighting games that I have almost grown tired of the entire genre. These two games, however, are the two games that have renewed my faith and fighting spirit.

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution, until 5 is released, is currently the vision of perfect that any 3D fighting gamer could ask for. The series has always been hard as nails to master, but it is without a doubt the most balanced 3D fighter around (and probably the most balanced fighter ever made). What's even better is that newcomers and naysayers no longer have an excuse to complain about the difficulty, since there are detailed instructions and training modes for each individual fighter, and even added strategies from the real life pros in Japan. It plays incredibly, with each character utilizing an entirely different fighting style based upon real world martial arts (Kage's Ninjitsu is a just a tad unbelievable...but then again, I have never seen a real ninja). I will admit the level of commitment required to become truly great at VF4 is a long and arduous one. But, with a terrific, almost RPG-like quest mode and hundreds of collectibles and outfits for each character, this game has even more awesomeness packed into it!






Guilty Gear X2, on the other hand, is a whole trip of 2D psychosis with its own spin of originality. I mean, anyone who comes up with some of the characters in this game has to be on drugs (Faust, Zappa, and Bridget being the weirdest). However, this is the one of the greatest fighters ever made for reasons far beyond its bizarre story and cast. It requires quick reflexes, the balance is extremely tight, each character brings something new to the table, and there's plenty of room for making one's own combos. "Roman Cancels" are a nifty little innovation, allowing one to cancel an action during a string of moves in order to help string together an entirely new set of attacks to follow. It also happens to be hilarious (you'd laugh too if a giant behemoth of a man was taken down by a billiard ball or a yo-yo).






For all you kids that can't stand games without good graphics, the effects used in both are still incredible and look absolutely stunning. If I am given a choice, I will play VF4 if I am in the mood for 3D and GGX2 if I am in the mood for 2D bouts. Both are entertaining, contain an enormous attention detail, and represent the best of the best in the fighting genre. Heaven or Hell, Duel 1, LET'S ROCK!

Am I a complete and utter idiot? Am I flat out wrong in my choices? Feel free to leave a comment or two. But first, like the last few lists, the Honorable Mentions:

Garou: Mark of the Wolves - A great game that is only marred by its lack of characters. Easy to learn, but hard to master!
Rival Schools - 3D fighting game with a complex story, slick style, and lots to like.
Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram - Giant robots? Check. Simple but fun gameplay? Check. One of the best fighters ever made? Checkmate!
Clayfighter 63 1/3 - A parody of all fighting games! Can you get a Triple-Brown-Betty combo, or are you going to settle for a Little Girlie Combo?

Proves that list sucks. This is 2010, not 2006.

yeah a 4 year old list with classics suck. thats just one buddy , i got plenty, and they are critics.

and the list has 3d games to, so dont say he is biased. 2d to 3d games are above average at best. just admit it.
and mkvs dc did not even get nominated for the spike vga 2009 best fighting games. sf4,bb,tk6,sc broken destiny. sf4 won and it beat tk6, a relevant 3d game. and blazblue, an "unpopular 2d game made it that only sale to small crowds" on the list.

I'm not trying to jump on the band wagon of hating you, but your wrong. MKvsDC was nominated for the VGAs in 2008. And secondly f*ck the VGAs. The VGAs seem like they're more focused on advertising, and plugging spike tv shows then they are focused on games . Also the VGAs have made many poor decisions in the past. Like picking boomblox over Smash bro. Brawl for best wii game. There was also that whole 50 cent bullet proof controversy as well. I will say the VGAs where better this year with there decisions, but they still mean nothing to me.

I will agree with you on one thing. I do want MK to be 2D, and have depth. So that way it could be respected by fans, reviewers, and pro gamers.

mkvsdc was nominated i missed it my bad. now for some more stuff.


Displaying posts 1 - 30 out of 43.12NextRory it was UMK3 at first........then armageddon came out.......& took over......MK:DA was crap though.......
July 30, 2008 at 7:52pm
Patrick The best mk games would be mk2 and armageddon.
The worst would have 2 b Mortal Kombat Mythologies Sub-Zero
August 5, 2008 at 7:10am
Kristopher Alexander MK4 Gold.... what the fuck was that???
September 14, 2008 at 9:07am
Jimmy The Best: Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat 2, Mortal Kombat 3, Mortal Kombat, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3/Trilogy, Mortal Kombat Deception, Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks

The Worst: Try all of them that I haven't mentioned.

*MK4: Should have been better than what it was. The Arcade version was awesome, but when the home versions were released, it had nothing but disappointment written all over it. I still play MK4 just for laughs nowadays, but back then, even as an 11 year old kid, I was hugely upset and disappointed with it.

*MKM: Sub-Zero: Had a cool concept and it was nice to have an adventure game based around Sub-Zero, but come on- the game was released in late 1997, early 1998. It should have been in 3D- especially with MK4 heading that way.

*MK: Special Forces: Don't get me started.

*MK: Deadly Alliance: A great improvement from MK4 in many ways, but it still should have been better. I wasn't satisfied with it, but I was somewhat impressed. It takes more than what Midway gave back in 2002 to impress me.

*MK: Armageddon: Felt too rushed, hated the create-a-fighter/fatality modes, Motor Kombat was a wannabe version of Mario Kart 64 that was painful to watch, let alone play, and moreso it didn't feel like there was any closure to the series at all. Moreso, the endings for each character was ridiculous- I preferred the illustration endings of MK:DA and Deception.


September 16, 2008 at 4:35am
Raúl the best are:
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, MK Deception
October 4, 2008 at 9:07pm
Andy I don't know why people are saying UMK3, since Trilogy is the same thing with more characters and scenes compared to umk3, and ps1 version had goro and stuff.

Personally i'm leaning toward Armageddon now, but I also put MK:Trilogy for PS and MK2 in a close 2nd and 3rd respectively. I exclude UMK3 for the reasons above. of course prior to Trilogy it was.
October 4, 2008 at 9:52pm
Scot UMK3 is and always will be the best, but just wait for MK vs. DC, that'll become one of the legendary games of our time, bringing MK back to where it belongs
October 5, 2008 at 12:20pm
Eleni Mortal Kombat Trilogy!!!
October 6, 2008 at 4:16am
Christopher Ranking in order:
Mortal Kombat 2
Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat Armageddon
Mortal Kombat Deception
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub Zero
Mortal Kombat: Special Forces
October 9, 2008 at 9:02am
Justin Mortal Kombat Special Forces was just "WHAT THE FUCK?!"
Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub Zero was not bad, but it still was kinda lame. Would've/could've been better if it was 3D.
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance was good at first, and then it got really lame and now I think I really REALLY hate it.


In no specific order, the best were MK4, Trilogy/UMK3 and Shaolin Monks. For some reason, Armageddon just gets better and better as well [imo]..it just keeps growing on me. Same with Deception, although I liked Deception slightly better.
December 29, 2008 at 5:39pm
Nicolas The best MK:
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat Trilogy

Worst MK:
All the 3D Mortal Kombat.
December 30, 2008 at 9:12am
Faraz mk2
mk4
mk3/trilogy n shit
mk: sm
subzero mythologies

were the best
December 30, 2008 at 12:27pm
Emma i have to admit... i love Mk deception.. but was gutted my fav payer wasn't there!!!! but im dying to play this new game... so if any single guys with that game... send me an invite for a ass kickin evening!! hehe!! ♥
December 30, 2008 at 5:53pm
Alex Mortal Kombat Trilogy, even on an orginal playstation you can never get sick of it with two human players and access to all the fighters ever created up to that point (you could even choose original Kano and Kung Lao etc)
January 30, 2009 at 4:15pm
Rodrigo Jesús MK II has been the best ever!!

MK Trilogy is very good too!
January 30, 2009 at 5:20pm
Fauricio Mortal Kombat Trilogy
Motal Kombat Deception
February 1, 2009 at 12:01pm
Leonardo Sebastian MORTAL KOMBAT II
February 2, 2009 at 8:49am
Alvaro The best:

Mortal Kombat: Deception
Mortal Kombat II
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3

The worst:

Mortal Kombat: Special Forces
Mortal Kombat 4 / Gold
February 2, 2009 at 6:13pm
Walker MK vs. DC SUX harcore Deception and Armaggedon and Shaolin Monks Kick Ass

February 4, 2009 at 4:05pm
Brett MK2, quite like the new DC universe one, the worst was special forces and mythologies
February 7, 2009 at 5:49am
Peter Mortal Kombat 2 why can't we have it on Playstation 2 or 3 ???
February 7, 2009 at 3:55pm
Caitlyn UMK3 and MKD
February 7, 2009 at 7:01pm
Michael I love all MK games. Non are bad. All are good and I love Liu Kangs fatality in MK Vs DC. Drops a fucking arcade game on him Fucking awsome.
February 7, 2009 at 8:51pm
Robbie mortal kombat trilogy was my favourite, didnt really like mk vs. dc
February 8, 2009 at 3:26pm
Srecko Best is MK1-2-3 and Armagedon,Mk vs Dc and in another category shaolin monks.

Bigest shit and worst in all serial is Mortal Kombat 4 and Mortal Kombat Gold becouse characters moves are like retarded freaks.
February 11, 2009 at 6:13pm
Facundo As you all see, it seems MK2 was the best, all agree with that. Thing is that MK2 was a game with a very obscure and realistic environment. The sounds, the music, the fatalities, everything was perfectly made so as to be a horror videogame. All others might have their pros but, you gotta be honest and think that playing MK2 feels like bieng in fucking outworld with a bunch of barakas chasing you through a maze of fire and darkness ready to tear you apart
February 18, 2009 at 10:45am
Muhammad Best: UMK3, MK Trilogy & MK Armageddon
I haven't played MK vs DC yet but i think i'll like it...

Worst: MK Gold
February 19, 2009 at 3:46am
Darin MK II Was The Best... Only 'Cause Johnny Cage Could Still Do The Split Punch To The Balls Which Is The Most Effective Stun Move Ever...

Armageddon Was Lame Because The Create-a-Fatality Was Decent... For Create-a-Character... But It Sucked Because The Rest Of The Characters Didn't Have Individual Fatalities.. How The Hell Do You Make An MK Game Where Shang Tsung Doesn't Do The Soul Rip.. Weak!!!
February 19, 2009 at 3:16pm
MattMdub Best MK games: MK2 (hands down), MK3/UMK3/MKT, MK Deception, MK vs. DC
Worst MK game: MK Special Forces
February 19, 2009 at 9:59pm
MattMdub That's true. I agree with you about MK2.
February 19, 2009 at 10:01pm



most people on here picked 2d mks as the best. mk2 and mkt always seems to get the most votes. this is survey off of face book with regular fans.

Actually, come to think about it, I don't think my hate for the fighting system is because of the pre-dialed combos. It's because of the fact that they are so stiff and awkward looking. If it look fluid like in Tekken, and a character had more than 3 combos, it would be better.

Street Fighter III: Third Strike -- Fight for the Future
Also known as: Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, Street Fighter III: Third Strike -- Fight for the Future (JPN), Street Fighter III: Third Strike -- Fight for the Future (EU)
The STREET FIGHTER series has long been the measuring stick by which other fighters are measured. Capcom has just upped the ante yet again, with bigger, bolder-looking characters including four brand new ones whose detailed animations take full advantage of the Dreamcast hardware. Each fighter has their own reasons for entering the tournament, testing their skills against the greatest martial artists the world has ever seen. Choose your favorite warrior, mastering a huge number of moves and combos. Your skills will be graded by the game's built-in Grade Judge System, so it might be wise to enter the Practice mode or go one-on-one with a friend in Versus mode before you tackle the tournament. These fighters have developed skills so powerful, that by building up a super arts meter during the fight, they are unable to unleash devastating attacks and combos that will send opponents reeling!
Publisher: Capcom
Developer: Capcom
Platform: Dreamcast · Genre: Fighting
Release Date: 10/05/00


Game Media | Reviews | Previews | News

GameStats.com GPMs 0.0

Sega-Fan [SPANISH] 12/16/2001 8.7 /10 8.7
IGN.com 10/05/2000 8.3 /10 8.3
GameSpot 10/05/2000 7.4 /10 7.4
GamePro 10/05/2000 4.5 /5 9.0
Adrenaline Vault (Avault) 10/05/2000 4 /5 8.0
IGN.com 07/10/2000 7.9 /10 7.9

Click here to see all reviews Average Press Score:
based on 6 reviews 8.2



alright now pros agree that this is a great fighting game and critics. but it did not sale well to casual fans. casual fans dont know what the f%ck they are talking about when it comes to a fighting game's gameplay.

yeah if mk was more like tekken..........you can play the if game all day.

and lots of people get you mixed up when you say mk should be like this or that. i understand what you are saying. you just want them to be on par with current games, not be exactly like them.

tekken 6 is very fluid. its all the small things that count and make the overall experience better.

i dont know what ed boon and the mk team are doing. but since im a fan of the 2d games they dragged me into this 3d mess. i will give them another chance, well ill give them alot . but i dont know if i will buy those games, but i will buy them if they are good games, rather it be 2d or 3d. I just want it to be good. and with the release of the lastest 3d mk titles, i have gave up on the idea that they can release good 3d fighting game that on par with 3d standards.

Exactly. I don't want MK9 to be exactly like Tekken 6 or Street Fighter 4, I just want them to be on par with those, whether it be 2D or 3D.

How I feel, is if MK9 is 2D (which i'm highly doubting), then I will buy it no matter what. If it's 3D, I will probably buy it, but only if what they show me really impresses me.

I'm not your buddy, pal.




I could care less whether the list has some 3d games, but I am caring for the fact that I'm not going to switch sides and agree with you. It's my opinion on what I think about 2d/3d games, you cannot force me to agree with you when I absolutely will not convert to your side or whatever. Geeze, you just don't stop even when you ask politely for people to end it with you.

Yeah, I don't know if anyone ever got the impression that I want MK to be Tekken or Virtua Fighter or any other game for that matter. I don't. I want MK to take the best elements of other games' systems and adapt them to an MK style and make it uniquely MK.

I want a balance between 2D speed (which for 3D games, I think Dead or Alive comes closest to) and special moves (MK, obviously) with some of the ideas that make 3D games enjoyable for me (counters from Tekken, unique fighting styles like Virtua Fighter, style changes like Tekken, parrys like Soul Calibur, a simple yet rewarding combo system like Dead or Alive, escapes, dodges, etc)

To me, if you put all of that in a pot and stir it up, I think you'll have a fun and enjoyable, yet still VERY Mortal Kombat experience.

But I can understand and respect the fact that others might disagree with me on that. I think alot of people, especially Bigsyke, see Street Fighter 4 and they see that as the wave of the future for MK.

Me? I just don't see it. I mean, okay.. 3D backgrounds and 3D characters modles, right? Okay. But you fight on a 2D playing field. Okay, so is the only thing we're really differing on here the ability to walk and dodge in 3D? Because to me, that's how close SF4 is to 3D. It's basically got two of the three sides of the triangle.

Some of you argue that a 2D playing field makes it easier for projectiles and special moves to hit. Personally, I like the fact that special moves aren't always automatic to at least make contact. That you have to know when to pull out the right move. To me, it adds to the strategy. Would I despise it if MK went this route? Not really.

But I think that MK is a fully 3D fighter now and should stay that way because I think they're headed in the right direction. You disagree with that? Your opinon.

Now, what I've been arguing against is the idea that MK should go back to fully flat 2D. By that, I mean the graphical quality of games form 1995. Maybe I got my wires crossed with people. If you advocate for this, for sprites or digitized characters or cardboard cutouts, whatever you want to call them... That's where I have the problem at least in terms of seeing your viewpoint.

To me, those graphics and that style are much more niche and not the type of future that a series that routinely sells over a million copies per game will want to go in. As far as that idea is concerned, yes, I think that would be heading toward a dead end where it would end up on the scrap heap with all of the other MANY dead 2D fighting franchises that have come up and fallen by the wayside over the years.

I do feel that MK has more or less taken steps in the right direction when it comes to their 3D games.

MK4 was obviously horrible when it came to 3D, because it just wasn't translated well. MKDA raised the bar, and then MKD raised the bar even higher. MKA, however, was a huge step backwards to me. The whole idea of fighting in the air was just...horrible. Good on paper, but not in the game.

MKvsDC was a huge step forward though, and in my opinion, the best in the series as far as 3D goes. I feel that it was the best though, as far as the fighting engine went, nothing to do with the story or any other aspect. Combos and moves were a little more fluid and the combos made more sense.

So I hope that if this game is in 3D, which i'm assuming it is, I hope it's another huge step forward.

However, I must say that the reason I feel that MK has not done so successful in 3D is because of their lack of time to develop a great game. I think that they had a lot things they wanted to add and a lot of tweaks they wanted to make to their fighting system, but due to lack of time, they weren't able to do everything they wanted. Now, having MK9 been in development for a good time now, I feel it will be much better.

I just really hope it's the MK game we have been waiting for for years now, whether it's in 2D or 3D.

Yes, we've already established that the 2D loving fighting fans who play at the 2D oriented tournament love 2D fighting games. They go on EVO's message board which is freakin called shoryukin.com. If that alone doesn't tell you what the tournament is geared towards, I posted a link in one of these other threads from fans bemoaning EVO's lack of focus on 3D games.



Wait a minute, didn't you say before that you didn't care about review scores? Look man, you either care about them or you don't. You can't say that my argument for review scores is invalid to you and then turn around and post review scores like it somehow bolsters your argument. That's flat out hypocricy. You're a hypocrite.

I like VF5 alot and I don't think it's too hard. I have several friends including my girlfriend who all enjoy Virtua Fighter. No, they don't play as Akira or any of the really deep characters, but they have a good time and enjoy it just the same. A buddy of mine, who had only played Street Fighter 2 before, learned to play as, and pretty much mastered Lei Fei. To me, that's an accessible game, so no, again I don't grant the premise of what are becoming "classic" Bigsyke statements are only universal truths to the person saying them (ie you).

I also like MK in 3D. I have a good time with MKvsDC and while it's not perfect by any means, it grows on me every time I play it. I don't like many of the DC characters, but that's probably only because I really wish that they were MK characters instead.

I bought Blazblue and played it about 5 times. Each time was more boring than the last. I didn't like it at all and I sold it already. Do you get the picture here of what I enjoy? I don't like what you like and I don't have to. I don't care what pro gamers (even though you have no proof of what they like or don't like, you just see a list of them playing in a 2D oriented tournament and assume because, that's what you do) like or what casual gamers like.



Another "classic" Bigsyke comment. You state it like it's a fact, yet you have nothing to base this off of. Nothing at all. No examples, no proof. This is not a statement that can be proven yet you state it like it's a fact. There it is, in black and white. A classic example of you stating an opinion like it's a fact. It's not.



I have no idea which game in particular you're referring to since MK hasn't had cgi endings since MK4 and no other fighting game has cool ninja characters (unless you count Kage from VF, Ryu from DOA etc... But let's face it, MK is ninja central).

Oh, and what the hell is wrong with wanting COOL MOVES? Am I supposed to want lame moves? Is that what you want for me now? Flat 2D visuals from 1995 and lame moves? Seriously, what are you trying to sell me on here? Next you're going to say that the animation must be choppy because that's what pro casual gamers casually want in their pro tournament games.

And what games would you consider "button smashers?" Most fighting games I play... You button mash against someone good and they'll put you on your ass. That includes DOA, VF, SC, Tekken and yes, MK in 3D.

And if by "some people" you mean me, and you're insinuating that I don't know about fighting games, I've played a TON of them. I played the original SF2 back when it was in its prime in the arcades. I played MK1 in the arcade. I've played fighting games on every system from the Atari Jaguar (Kasumi Ninja...sigh) to the Sega Saturn, Sony Playstation, Game Gear, 3DO, Neo Geo, Sega CD, N64, PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360, Game boy, DS, Turbo Grafix 16 etc etc.

I've played MANY fighting games over the last 20 years, so don't presume to tell me that I don't know fighting games. I just know what I like and again, it's not what you like. It doesn't have to be.




Let's dissect that brain poop real quick. You're saying that:

1. You want MK to be a deep fighter
2. MK1-3 was good because it was 2D, they'd suck in 3D
3. You want MK to be 2D again to make them deeper
4. Just because a game is 3D doesn't make it deep.

1. Clearly you don't if you want to go from characters that have unique styles, parrys, dodges, counters, and the hallmarks of advanced 3D fighting games (including recent MK games) and back to the days where you couldn't do anything but jump kick, uppercut, roundhouse sweep and use special moves. To me, that's primative by today's standards. The genre has moved beyond that stuff. Your refusal to see it doesn't make it any less true.
2. MK1 and 2 were good. MK3 stunk. They'd suck in 3D? Let me get this straight. You want MK9 to be like SF4, right? So 3D characters, 3D backgrounds, just movement in 2D. So basically, if you take out the ability to move in and out of the foreground and background, this is the complete and total end all be all in what will make MK good to you again?

That's quite possibly the dumbest thing I've seen you post yet. It's right up there with "3D is the past." No. 3D came out in the past, but it's still the present and future of the fighting genre.
3. How is making MK 2D going to make it deeper if you're talking about taking it back to the gameplay from the mid nineties? That's the opposite of depth.
4. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur and DOA all have characters that have 100+ moves each. MK1 and 2? The characters have about 10. MK3? Maybe what... 20? 30? To me, more moves and a variety of moves helps to equate to more depth.




I never said that SF EX got better scores than SF4. And again, why are you all of a sudden saying that review scores matter? Oh right, that's because I showed you that your claim that all 2D fighting games stunk in their transition to 3D, then I showed you proof that critics liked a lot of the games that you were bashing, so you had to change your argument.

Now your argument is that you don't want a good game, you want a GREAT game. Well, nice change by the way, but it didn't go unnoticed.

Let me say this as clearly as possible so there's no confusion: I do not care what you like. I don't care if you like 2D fighting games, SF4 or sticking your face in a blender. I don't care what you think is average, good or great.

You said that 2D to 3D games all sucked and I gave you proof otherwise. I liked the EX games. You don't. But you seem to be of the opinion that your opinion somehow carries more weight because you posted a list of "pro gamers" from a 2D oriented tournament.

Your opinion and those whom you speak for (but have never actually talked to) mean NOTHING to me.

If MK is sooooooo average, go play a different game. Stop polluting these boards with your repetition, your unsubstantiated opinions, your half truths, your lies, your unsupported comments, your "classic" Bigsyke one liners, and your overall bullshit.

Clearly you'd be more comfortable on a Street Figher 4 message board since you've obviously hated MK for the last 10+ years. There are others here like jbthrash and Grimm that want MK to be 2D, but they can get their point across without bashing MK. They still like MK, otherwise they wouldn't be here. You don't seem to have tha logic bone in your body so maybe I have to spell it out:

MK is a 3D fighting game. It's not going back in time. Get over it and stop posting garbage.

Wow, you pulled out a 10 year old game that didn't sell well. Congratulations. As far as the "pros" agreeing, I see an average review of 8.2. IGN gave it a 7.9 and Gamespot gave it a 7.4.

Yeah, you really showed me there. Hey man, you're the one that was trying to speak for the "casual fan." Then I brought up sales figures and all of a sudden the "casual fan" doesn't matter to you? Now they dont' know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to gameplay?

When are you ever going to get it through your thick skull that

A) Not everyone likes what you like.
B) People don't have to like what you like.

Gamespot gave your beloved 10 year old game a 7.4. That's lower than what IGN gave MKvsDC. OH MY GOD MKvsDC IS BETTER THAN STREET FIGHTER THREE!!!!

No.

That's one opinion weighed against another. Just like my opinion, which is based around personal preference, play time with current or previous iterations of a game, previews, review scores, game sales etc is my own opinion that I apply to me, myself.

So yeah, you go ahead and listen to pro gamers that you've never talked to and casual gamers (if you're still their voice, I haven't quite figured that out yet one way or the other) or whatever the hell you prefer to consider the be all end all of what fighting games should be and you feel free to rejoice in that.

You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me. If anything, right now you're only making me dislike what you like even more with each one of your posts. So keep posting, it's having precisely the opposite effect that you're intending.

PS: In your top ten fighting games, I think Virtual On: OT got an honorable mention.

MAJOR props for mentioning one of may all time favorite fighting games!! That game was freakin fun as hell back in the day. So good on you for mentioning that one and taking me back a ways! Thanks!

I think it's pretty clear that I'm a big advocater of 2D. So I want to make it clear that I don't want digitized actors or, cardboard characters, I want all 3D renders. I don't think there is one 2D person who wants digitized actors.

Speaking of graphics that is another benefit of 2D. If you look at SF4 or KoF12 the backgrounds are gorgeous. On top of them looking really nice, they also have smooth, and entertaining motion in the background. There was virtually no movement in the levels of any of the 3D MKs. It's no that big of a deal, but I think it is a really nice touch. In MKvsDC there wasn't many levels that I liked. Gotham and Metropolis where my favs, and I still don't enjoy them that much. Were where the people in the cities? I just kept feeling like I was in this barren city, and it felt so unrealistic and unexciting. What if other characters where battling in the background, or have buildings crumble? I know you could argue that, that is the game developers fault not the 3D elements fault. However, it would be much eaiser to add animation and more detail to the levels if they where 2D. I'm not a game designer, but it seems pretty obvious you only have to animate one flat background. While in a 3D level you have to animate a lot of different parts, because it is in 3 dimensions. This would also mean there could be more levels to choose from, because they would be easier to create.

This is just one of the many reasons why I think 2D is the right direction for Mortal Kombat. I can only think of one or two good things about sticking to 3D, but I see so many more benefits from 2D. Correct me if i'm out of line, but I feel like a lot of pro 3D people think that 3D is a huge leap forward, and that 2D games are just a degression of fighting games. If you prefer 3D fighters that's fine, but I hate when people say that 3D is the way of the future, and 2D is just a thing of the past that is a digression to fighting games. Both types can add as much depth or accessibility as they want it's just a different style. So really it doesn't matter what direction MK goes in, because it is the finally product that is judged not just the sole 2D or 3D aspect.

stop saying im a follower. i am not. but i realized that certain people, like pros or sometimes critcs might know more than me about a subject. i still go and play the games for myself to form my final opinion. and dont you follow critics because you seem to love ign and sales firgures(basically other people who bought the game). everbody uses something to gauge if a game is good or not at first. but if you go around on the sf forums, you will see casual street fighter fans HATE sf3. they argue it only has iconics, its too hard to parry, who are those weird unstereotypical fighters......etc. never do they say anything about gameplay. so thats why i always say casuals just only judge games on how easy they are, cool moves,story,blood,fatalitys......they never say anything about gameplay.


sc and sf are deep. they are easy for casuals to pick up and deep enough for pros to compete. 2d and 3d games can be deep, they are just diff styles. did you say sf was not deep??? whoa, you must be really bias towards 3d if you are calling sf shallow. no mk is shallow, not sf. sf has always been more deep and technical than mk. mk is mostly style, with blood, and story. mk has never been known for deep gameplay, thats why mk in 3d sucks. no depth in 3d gameplay standards at all like tk,vf,sc.


yeah i thought you knew what i meant when said 3d games are of the past. thats why i use examples alot to explain myself. 3d games were created in the 90's, but you guys act like it's some new advancment, like blu ray, that just came in 2000's.

sc,tek,vf, and some more are 3d games that are out. sf4,bb,capcom vs tatsunoku, all the other great 2d games in japan that we never see.

stop saying sf4 is basically the same. its not. similar, not exactly the same. thats just like saying all fighting games are the same because they are all from the fighting genre,NO.
and those guys(sf fan boys) hate mk style of gameplay and love anything sf puts out. but they said sf ex sucked. critics gave them average to failing grades. so basically people might not totally HATE 2d to 3d games, but if you ask them which is the best in the series, its most likly going to be a 2d game. 2d to 3d games always feel average compared to the 2d versions for some reason. ask yourself baraka, which is the best mk??? probably a 2d one even though you want it to keep "advancing to 3d".
see thats where im coming from i dont think a 2d to 3d game has the POTENTIAL to ever be the GREATEST of the series or get an A grade. its always,"oh its pretty good but,...." maybe mk can prove me wrong, they have TRIED FIVE times.......

i only used your arguments, because you said pros are not offical like critcs, stuff. so i said if you listen to critcs so much,then they think sf4 and bb are better than mk vs dc. see i am not comparing the games, but the styles thatt hey use, get it. 2.5d(3d models and backgrounds,2d gameplay) vs 3d. and capcom vs tatsunoko got an A too.

im telling you, you dont have to agree with me but SF knows what the hell they are doing, IF they revloutionized fighting games with sf2, they can possibly be doing it with sf4. they even said that 2.5 is the way to go for the future for 2d games from the 90's. so i have "THE KING OF FIGHTING GAMES" agreeing with me. that has to mean something. because sf is proven to be the FIRST to "CATCH ON" and be ahead of time in terms of fighting games. that is what I call a STRONG OPINION(still opinions but from people who know what they are talking about), which are the things ive been using as arguments.


oh and for the final time I DONT want 2d, its more like 2.5. just like how sf4 looks and plays, but with dark gritty graphics and fatalities, mk style....etc...heavy rain and msg4 are good examples of realistic graphics that could replace digitalized graphics.

copy and paste to youtube. you will the video.

Mortal Kombat 9 (street fighter 4 mod)..............



should be a good example, just do it mk style. this is how I WANT the game to be. 3d models, 3d background, 2d gameplay= bigsyke's mk game.



and that is not my list ,it's from 1up.com.
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=6418970&publicUserId;=5717499

glad you liked it though.

That MK9 street fighter mod was awsome. It makes you think, what if MK went in that direction for the future of their games?