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Thrawn
04/06/2009 12:48 PM (UTC)
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I love Kira. I really love both her primary and alt costumes. It is about time the mk team gave us another Black Dragon member, and they gave us a female one at that. Sweet.

I love the look. A possible alternative idea I wouldn't mind for her might be a trench coat. I think that would look pretty cool with her red hair and it complements Kabal nicely.

I also like how she looks sort of like a wiry strung out junkie. Sort of like a hyena or something that has to constantly fight and claw to keep it's place in the pack. Maybe that is just me though.

Special moves are fine with me. I love the fact that she could become Sonya's dark mirror. To me it is fitting that she incorporates one move apiece from both Kano and Sonya. She can keep the canon ball and Sonya's stun kiss. Keep the knives then give her some original moves. It doesn't bother me. Kind of like Frost, she has a legitimate story reason for borrowing a move from each character.

I would like for them to really make her a player in the Black Dragon clan. Really establish her as Kabal's number 2 in charge. Please let her mkd ending be canon. Please let it be canon. Please let it be canon.

Also I would really like them to make her just plain evil. Really make her a crazy bitch. Don't sacrifice her cunning because then she has no use to Kabal. Her cunning, ruthlessness, and toughness was established in her mkd bio to me. Portray her sort of like Batman's Harley Quinn but smarter. I think she could go far. That gives Sonya a couple of great rogues to feud with. Kira, Kano, Kabal, Sektor and the Tekunin.

I don't see Kira as a main villain but as a very strong support character and a very strong personal rival for Sonya.

I think at this point she has more potential then any of the new characters introduced in mkd with the possible exception of Havik. I say bring her back and see what the mk team can do with her. She could become the craziest, nastiest female since Mileena.






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Sub-Zero_7th
04/07/2009 03:51 PM (UTC)
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I'm sorry I didn't get around to replying to this sooner. I wanted to, but you know how it is with me. Anyway, I'm going to cover two characters at a time. The first two I'll be covering will be Sonya and Kira.




Sonya



Appearance: You said that Sonya always looks too realistic. I have to disagree with you. I think that for the most part, she looks unrealistic. I can't imagine how a Lieutenant in the U.S. Special Forces can get away with the kind of stuff she wears. The only exception would probably be her MK: DA/MK: Armageddon alternate costume, which is her least revealing costume.

I think that as someone from Earthrealm, especially with her being a Lieutenant in the U.S. Special Forces, she should dress realistically. Sure, Mortal Kombat involves fantasy, but it just makes sense for her character to be dressing like a soldier. Maybe for one of her costumes, she can be a bit revealing by wearing something like a green or white army tank top.

So overall, she should have a realistic look despite Mortal Kombat being a series that has fantasy elements.

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Gameplay: To me, Sonya's gameplay style should focus on speed and aggressiveness. I think she should be a more linear, offensive character who uses hard-hitting strikes and kicks. From a realistic perspective, she'd probably be using techniques from Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. While I could kind of see her using something like that, I prefer her style to have a Tae Kwon Do basis, with influences from Judo and Boxing.

For her special moves, it would be best to stick with most of the classic special moves. She should definitely have the Leg Grab, Diagonal Bicycle Kick, and Energy Rings. She could go for some new moves to keep things fresh. I don't really have any ideas though.

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Story: Story-wise, Sonya could be described as a protagonist. She does have some significance to the story but not as much as the likes of characters like Raiden. Her story is fairly linear and repetitve. I feel that she doesn't really evolve as a character. Granted, she doesn't have to be a really deep character, but at the same time, she should have character development, especially since she's been in the series since the first game.

I think that part of her evolution as a character lies within her wising up. Instead of being brash, she should learn how to reserve herself and think things through. I would think that someone in the U.S. Special Forces would learn to deal with things strategically, but I guess her brashness is an old and bad habit that dies hard.

I'm iffy on whether or not I think Sonya should return. I'm not really a fan of her character, but I don't hate her either. She's very much in the middle to me. If she does return, which she probably will, I think that setting her and Kira up as each other's antithesis could be very interesting if it's done right.

Sonya could learn from Kira's tactical and calculative qualities. If Kira has many times of getting the upper hand on Sonya due to such things, this would (and should) force Sonya to become wiser and learn how to use good strategy and tactics. What could be a catalyst in Sonya's evolution is that her brashness could lead to the severe injury or death of one of her close allies.

With her evolution as a character, her fighting style should change, becoming less aggressive, less linear, and more balanced.

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Overall: Overall, Sonya's a fan favorite and a staple character. Her status as a fan favorite allows her to continue in future games. For me, Sonya needs to dress realistically and have a more interesting story as well as have good character development.



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Kira



Appearance: I too prefer her alternate costume and would rather see more of that look. I wish she had the hairstyle that she had in the concept art. It would really add to her distinctiveness. They should stick with the leather stuff. Black and red are good color schemes for her costumes. They need to fix the rendering of her face when it comes to the in-game graphics. She could probably get away with showing a bit more skin while not being a very revealing character.

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Gameplay: Gameplay-wise, we should get that look and feel of her being cunning and strategical. She obviously shouldn't be someone that relies on brute strength or magical powers. I'm not sure I really like the idea of characters like her using energy attacks. Maybe she is some kind of metahuman for whatever reason(s).

I feel that she needs a revamp with her special moves. She needs to stay away from the Kano + Sonya ripoff feel and have her own special moves. For MK: Resurrection, we gave her some knife-related specials, one of which was inspired from one of her MK: Deception fatalities in which she twirls around, slicing the opponent's stomach twice. So basically, her special moves should focus on her usage of knives as well as her martial arts skills.

Speaking of her martial arts skills, it goes back to what I said about the look and feel of her being cunning and strategical. Since she uses knives, her martial arts style could be heavily influenced by the Filipino martial arts. For MK: Resurrection, I picked Kali Sikaran, which is a Filipino martial art that combines knife and stick fighting methods with unarmed combat, containing strikes, kicks, grappling, etc. If she has American Kenpo like she did in MK: Deception, that's fine too. Kenpo is designed to allow each Kenpoka (or is it Kenpoist?) to personalize it to be suitable for him/her.

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Story: In MK: Resurrection, we had Kira and Havik retain their status as allies of each other, and they split up to spread chaos. She gets captured by Reiko's men and works her way to becoming one of his minions. Although Havik wants her to get close enough to kill him, she comes to the realization that it's better to persuade Reiko to make her his queen as a means of helping to spread chaos. This may sound like it contradicts her personality from her MK: Deception bio since she envisions a world of anarchy. But, I guess this could be an evolution within her character development.

I'm still very happy about how we (Paragon and I) developed her story. To me, one thing that should definitely happen with her story is that she should not be affiliated with the Black Dragon clan anymore. I don't like the new Black Dragon too much, mainly because of what they did with Kabal. As an anarchist, I don't really understand her joining an organized group of criminals, but I digress.

Aside from her not being part of the Black Dragon, I think that if she were to return, I'd like to see her be developed as Sonya's antithesis. She should really out-class Sonya and really push her to the limits. Kira would have the advantage over Sonya due to her being calculative and tactical, which is superior to Sonya's brashness.

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Overall: I personally think that she has the potential to become an interesting villain. For that potential to be explored, she's going to need a bit of revamping.


------------------------


So yeah, cool thread. I hope to work on talking about some more characters a bit later on.
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Thrawn
04/07/2009 05:01 PM (UTC)
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One comment from me Sub Zero7th. If Kira leaves the Black Dragon then it seems to me that removes the reasoning and the motivation to make her Sonya's antithesis.

Sonya is one of earthrealm's chosen warriors and one of it's main heroes. The Black Dragon along with Sektor's new clan are 2 of earthrealm's most powerful and dangerous homegrown criminal elements that Sonya and the special forces and the OIA have to deal with. If Kira marries or joins Reiko then that changes her from an Earthrealm villain to an outworld one.

One of the staples of the mk series is the Black Dragon as an earthrealm threat that has existed for centuries bedeviling Earthrealm's chosen fighters and occasionally conspiring with the Outworld villains. It seems to me that it does indeed contradict Kira's character and indeed the point behind her initial conception as a new antagonist for Sonya.

Admittedly though I am unfamiliar with your mk resurrection.

No offense just some curious inquiries from me.
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Icebaby
04/07/2009 11:41 PM (UTC)
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QueenSindel(TheBitch) Wrote:
Here, we discuss the changes we hope to see in returning females for the next game.

Today's Discussion: Li Mei

Appearance - She's very much a Dead or Alive wannabe, which I hate, even though the outfit has some cool aspects.

Her alternate is cool, but looks less feminine. I kinda would like to see a blend of her primary and alternate. That would be sweet.

Gameplay - She's always been fun to play as, imo. I like her fast graceful combos, but I don't like her with a sword. I liked her better with the Sai, but since that's Mileena's, she should get a new weapon.

Her special moves are fun. Her carnival kick is her trademark, definitely. All her current moves should return, plus a new one. And she's always had fun throws too.

Story - Interesting in Deadly Alliance, boring in Deception. I don't like have yet another conflicted hero. If she turns out to be another Sareena or Ashrah, I prefer she just gains a new story.

I think it would be cool if Kitana's ending were real. She would be a part of an all-female fighting team with Kitana, Sindel, and Jade. Sweet! But I don't know if it would do much for her since it's better when characters deal with personal issues.

Overall, she needs a more serious primary and a new story direction.


Hmm, what to talk about Li Mei...?

Appearance: I never minded her outfits... though I really liked the secondary one in Deception where she looks more of a warrior. That's what I expect she should look like for future appearances. None of this slutty outfit sutff, she needs to look like a kick-ass female warrior.

Moves: Nothing to change for them. I like her moves.

Story: She definitely needs a new story line. I hated her endings in Deadly Alliance and Deception. They're so stupid... she should join forces with Kitana and her gang and develop a rival or something. But she needs to have her story to improve big time...

She's not really a favorite of mine, so I really don't have that much to say about her.
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Ninja_Mime
04/07/2009 11:49 PM (UTC)
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Li Mei is my favourite female character. I would love to see her come back, and think it would be cool if they slowly turned her to evil, as hinted in MKD. Perhaps she could kill Bo' Rai Cho.

I enjoy all of her moves, and her quick handed fighting styles. I'm not a fan of skimpy pajama/underwear outfits, so more costumes along the lines of her MKD alt would be welcomed.
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Shinomune
04/08/2009 03:21 AM (UTC)
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I think that the Li Mei's "tragic heroine" isn't the same line of Sareena/Ashrah's "redemption". Sareena/Ashrah is a demon (born evil) to be a good girl.

Li Mei is a good girl with bad luck in her life. If she turns evil and kill Bo' Rai Cho, she will to remain a evil girl, or THEN will become like Sareena/Ashrah. But, for example, if Shang Tsung remains alive, he can be her true father, and this can potency both parts of "tragic heroine", because he is a killer, but also his father, and will be a true mortal kombat (inner conflict): How can I live, killing my father or not killing a murder?
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JohnBoyAdvance
04/08/2009 10:10 AM (UTC)
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I dont really like Li Mei. She comes across as a bit dull. The only interesting thing about her is the fact she comes from Outworld.

I'm surprised she was brought back in in Deception ahead of Kitana, Sonya, Jax, Kano, Mavado, Frost, Drahmin or even Nitara. Or Sareena, especially seeing as she was in MK: DA: TE. But I do think something interesting could be done with her.

Story: Possibly something to do with returning to her village and seeing everyone dead. Maybe something to do with Orderrealm trying to take over parts of Outworld. And Havik pops up and offers her the way of Chaos. Because what she has been doing lately, standing in the background and possibly joining up with Onaga and not doing much else is dull.

Appearance: Primary: Her MK:DA Primary felt very fresh in MK terms. Maybe she should have a slightly updated version of this.
Secondary: Her MK Deception Alt. The one with all of the armour. It was pretty cool.
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Thrawn
04/08/2009 02:48 PM (UTC)
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I have to say right off the bat that I find Lei Mei to be the most bland female character and one of the most bland mk characters period. I am not a fan at all of Lei Mei.

Her story basically was an outworld Liu Kang with a little Sonya thrown in. She was a peaceful outworld villager (Liu Kang, monk) who was forced to work for Shang Tsung and Quan Chi or else they would kill her village (Sonya's teammates in mk1). She survives mkda and actually wins the tournament if I remember and gets trained by Bo Rai Cho (Liu Kang again and Kung Lao).

I was stunned that this trollop returned over Kitana, Sonya, Sektor, Johnny Cage, and Kano. Why?

Her moves were okay. I like the flying fists move. I'm not sure why she has a fireball. It looked okay though.

She is a very bland character and barring some major development like becoming Shao Kahn's queen since Onaga is most likely dead and not coming back, I don't see how she can make any meaningful contributions to the story. She is a peaceful villager so she should probably just return to her village and live out the rest of her life.

Her alt costume in mkd with the armor did look pretty sweet. If she returns she should definitely get that look back.

I'm really not a fan of this character at all. I know that she apparently has some fans (Hey who knew?) but I have to say that one of my favorite things about mka was the opening movie when she get impaled by that other waste of space Hotaru. I thought realistically that is what would happen to an inexperienced villager who starts fighting with the heavy hitters of the mk universe.

If she returns maybe she will pleasantly surprise me with something.
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Sub-Zero_7th
04/08/2009 04:01 PM (UTC)
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Thrawn Wrote:
One comment from me Sub Zero7th. If Kira leaves the Black Dragon then it seems to me that removes the reasoning and the motivation to make her Sonya's antithesis.

Sonya is one of earthrealm's chosen warriors and one of it's main heroes. The Black Dragon along with Sektor's new clan are 2 of earthrealm's most powerful and dangerous homegrown criminal elements that Sonya and the special forces and the OIA have to deal with. If Kira marries or joins Reiko then that changes her from an Earthrealm villain to an outworld one.

One of the staples of the mk series is the Black Dragon as an earthrealm threat that has existed for centuries bedeviling Earthrealm's chosen fighters and occasionally conspiring with the Outworld villains. It seems to me that it does indeed contradict Kira's character and indeed the point behind her initial conception as a new antagonist for Sonya.

Admittedly though I am unfamiliar with your mk resurrection.

No offense just some curious inquiries from me.


To me, Kira is more Red Dragon material. It was pretty bad of the MK team to not continue the Red Dragon story in MKD and to instead have a new Black Dragon. If they continued the Red Dragon story, had Sonya as a playable character with a story, and had Kira as a Red Dragon member, they could have done something there. Then again, MKDA was trying to set up Mavado as Sonya's greatest enemy.

Kira being involved with Reiko and the Outworld side of the story is something that's within the next-gen story that Paragon and I have been working on. I don't exactly suggest the same for the future games themselves. It was just a different direction for us to take her character. I don't think Kira needs to be in the Black Dragon to really have her be Sonya's antithesis.

If I'm not mistaken, the Black Dragon hasn't existed for that long. It was founded by the creator of Aikido, who lived in the earlier part of the 20th century.




Here are the next two characters from me:

Kitana



Appearance: Kitana is one of the female characters that suffers from two costume issues: swimsuit outfit and high heeled footwear. These are two things that should be done away with. She's supposed to be a warrior princess who has had thousands of years experience as a warrior assassin for Shao Kahn. Her costumes should basically have that warrior princess feel by having some lightweight armor with some nice, regal designs.

Blue and black are color schemes that she should stick with. I think her hair in MKDA-MKA is a bit too long and should not be as long. I'd like to see one look in which she has the ponytail and one look in which she has her hair down like in MK2. I certainly do not want to see her with the bun hairstyle like in MK: Trilogy.

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Gameplay: Gameplay-wise, she should have that mixed feel of grace and elegance with deadliness. I wouldn't think that the warrior assassin training would easily go away so her so there should be some of the edge in her figthing style. In terms of martial arts styles, I do think that Ying Jow Pai (Eagle Claw) and Baguazhang both suit her. I could see her style having influences from both of them.

For her special moves, she could definitely use some new ones. She should obviously keep her Fan Toss, Fan Lift, and things like that. I really liked the way they improved the Pretty Kick in MKA, and I wouldn't mind seeing it again if they keep it like that. If she keeps the Fan Lift, and if she is able to do the Fan Toss in the air, I don't really see the need for her to have the Air Punch (or whatever you want to call that move). First off, Sonya originally had that move, and second, her other moves can work just fine as anti-air moves.

Another move that she could do without is the Pixie Dust Teleport. It's pretty much a blue version of Jade's teleport. So overall, she should keep the Fan Toss, Fan Lift, and Pretty Kick while having some new special moves. I think that every character from this saga that's going to return should have at least a couple of new special moves.

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Story: Story-wise, Kitana is a protagonist and a pretty important character to the story. She's one of the most developed female characters in terms of her story. Some feel that she has lost her edge, mainly due to the "princess" stuff. I guess that a big problem lies within the Edenia plot and it tying her down.

I'd like to see a new direction for Kitana. Maybe something happens in which she sort of goes back to her assassin roots, without becoming evil. I like that she seems to be frustrated with how there are new and more powerful threats every time, and that could be a factor in her direction change.

I could see her becoming bitter, especially considering how things can turn out after Armageddon. It seems like she won't be able to be with Liu Kang, and since Armageddon took place in Edenia, who knows how Edenia will be affected after it.

Some feel that she and Mileena should not really have anything to do with each other. I'm not entirely sure about that. Maybe if Kitana does leave Edenia, abandoning her status as its princess, that could give room to see how Sindel does things.

I don't agree with you on the "flowery damsel" and "pretty girlfriend" comments. She acts pretty serious enough considering what goes on in her story. Even though the attraction between Liu Kang and Kitana is more or less established in the games' story, I don't think there's really an actual relationship of that kind between them. I think it's something they'd want but can't have, especially now since Liu Kang's soul will eventually ascend to the Heavens.

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Overall: Overall, Kitana is a fan favorite and staple character like Sonya. For her, it's mainly an issue of newness for her special moves, costumes, story, etc. Perhaps if she did have that dark edge back that she'd be more interesting to some people.

I'm somewhat more in the middle in terms of whether or not I think she should even return. I like her overall, and I think that a character like her would likely continue in future games. It's just that if they don't take her in a better direction and improve some other aspects, maybe she should be more of an NPC. I don't know.



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Mileena



Appearance: The thing with Mileena is that in a way, she can get away with being more revealing. I really liked her MKD/MKA primary costume though both that costume as well as her alternate and MKSM costumes went a bit much in terms of exposure. I like the stuff with the veil and the sleeves from her MKD/MKA primary.

I kind of see what you're saying about the vicious look. That could be one costume for her while the other one could be more slutty. Either way, I wouldn't want her (or any other female for that matter) to dress with too little clothing.

In the 2D games, Mileena suffered from the same kind of problem that Kitana, Jade, and Sindel had, which was the swimsuit thing. While that certainly covered up more than what she has on now, I don't want Mileena to go back to that.

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Gameplay: I liked the overall feel of Mileena's gameplay style in MKD and MKA in which she's fast. She should be a fast and deadly character. I think she should have that vicious feel in her fighting style and perhaps something a little bit less refined. Maybe some of her moves aren't so refined, kind of reflecting that Tarkatan feel. So I think that like Sonya, she should be a more offensive fighter but a bit less refined than Sonya.

One thing I don't like about Mileena is that they have never really given her any new special moves. What the hell is up with that? Ever since MK2, she's had her Sai Throw projectile, her Ground Roll, and her Teleport Kick. I don't like the way she does her Sai Throw projectile in MKD and MKA.

I like it better in the older games in which she looks like she's actually throwing the Sai. Like with Kitana's Fan Toss, Mileena's Sai projectile should be able to be done in the air like in the old games. I think that would improve her gameplay and could help her be a bit of an anti-air character.

She should keep the special moves she has while having a few new ones. Mileena is definitely a character that's in need of new specials. Three isn't enough, in my opinion. She could have a special move that involves her Sai without it being a projectile and a pouncing move similar to Catwoman's. However, instead of clawing at the opponent, Mileena could bite the opponent like she does in one of her MKD fatalities and then do her throw move from MKD/MKA. That would be pretty cool.

One last thing I want to note is that her Ground Roll should hit low, not mid. For it to hit mid is absolutely stupid and takes away from her effectiveness. With her Sai projectile, that would hit high while her Teleport Kick would hit mid. So for her Ground Roll to return to being a low-hitting special move would be great.

So overall, Mileena needs new special moves and refinements on a couple of her current moves. Her overall gameplay style should be fast, vicious, and aggressive.

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Story: Story-wise, I never particularly cared too much for her in the earlier games. Maybe it's that I didn't pay as much attention to it or didn't appreciate it. I really liked the story direction she had in MKD. It was very smart as it separates her from Kitana and it gives her a newfound thirst for wanting to rule.

One thing I don't want to see is her deal with Baraka. In fact, I don't want to see Baraka ever return save for perhaps some backstory games that happen to have him in those timelines. One thing that was kind of stupid was for Mileena to dress the way she did when posing as Kitana. Even though most people thought that Mileena died years ago, she should be smart about how she dresses in order to really be convincing.

In MKA, Shao Kahn regains control of Outworld, and Mileena feels forced into returning to his side, but not forever. I'm glad that she doesn't plan on staying with Shao Kahn. I think that she'd probably want to try and get Edenia back. The thing is, Kitana is alive, and chances are the Edenians know what's going on.

So if Mileena wants Edenia, this can easily turn into Kitana and Mileena continuing their rivalry and fighting for control over Edenia. This would be predictable and could upset some fans of the story. Maybe what could happen in the next-generation story is that her Tarkatan side becomes stronger and she wants to find a way to control herself.

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Overall: Overall, Mileena is a pretty cool character who I like. I think she should return, but like Kitana, they have to be careful how they do her story.
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Thrawn
04/08/2009 04:53 PM (UTC)
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Here's my thing with the Kira being Sonya's antithesis Sub Zero7th. Sonya is law and order. She upholds justice and fights to maintain the natural stability of society. She is a soldier.

Kira is a criminal. She is part of an criminal gang or syndicate or whatever the Black Dragon is. She breaks the law and survives by defying the rules that every member of a civilized society lives by. That is the reason that she is Sonya's antithesis to me. Just like Kano is right now.

Boiled down to it's essence the Sonya/Kano/Kira relationship is cops and robbers. Us Marshall vs cowboy. Wyatt Earp vs Curly Bill.

If she isn't going to be an Earthrealm criminal then I don't think any reason exists for her to specifically be Sonya's personal antithesis. By removing the criminal element it negates the opposing characteristic of Sonya's law and order stance. That's my personal opinion though.

Also I think you are right about the Black Dragon not existing for centuries as I had stated above. I didn't double check Mavado's bio before posting. I was remembering the history of the Black Dragon from mk conquest which did have it existing for centuries and even having there own magic. Much better in my opinion.

I have to disagree about it being too bad that they didn't continue with the Red Dragon storyline though. To me we already had the Black Dragon. We don't need another faction to fight the Black Dragon. Especially since Kabal basically killed Mavado in his mkd bio. Yay! But I don't know what the hell happened in mka story wise with that.

I personally like Kano, Kira, and Kabal as a group of bad ass villains much better than those lame ones Mavado and Hsu Hao.

That's just my take though. Nice conversing with you by the way.







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Sub-Zero_7th
04/09/2009 04:00 PM (UTC)
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To Thrawn: See, if you use the kind of logic you did, then you could say that Jarek, Kabal, and Kobra are also Sonya's antitheses (sp?). I don't consider Kano to be Sonya's antithesis. He's more like her arch nemesis.

For Kira to be Sonya's antithesis, there has to be more going on. There has to be development into that role. Let me give you an example.

It can be argued that Sub-Zero's antithesis is Sektor. They were both assassins in the Lin Kuei. While Sektor willingly went through the automation process to become a cyborg, Sub-Zero refused and became a rogue.

Years later, Sub-Zero and Sektor fight for control over the Lin Kuei after Sektor killed the Grandmaster. Sub-Zero defeated Sektor, claimed the Dragon Medallion and reformed the Lin Kuei, shaping it in his image. Defeated, Sektor moves to Japan and starts his clan of cyborgs, molded in his image.

That kind of stuff is antithesis material.

Kira can still be an Earthrealm criminal and do crimes in Earthrealm. The MK: Resurrection story for her was to do something different.

MK: Conquest is non-canon as it's a TV show. While I do think it would have simply been better to just have the Black Dragon and have it exist for centuries, the Red Dragon has already been established into the story as being the older of the two clans.

You may not like the Red Dragon and its members, but I still think that it's a shame it wasn't further developed in MK: Deception. The fact that Kira is an anarchist yet is part of an organized group sounds a bit contradictory to me.

I don't think that Kira needs to be part of the Black Dragon or any other crime syndicate to be Sonya's antithesis. Before joining Kabal's Black Dragon, Kira was disguising herself as a man and selling weapons to terrorists in Afghanistan. So clearly, she can do just fine solo.

---------------------------

Moving on, the next two characters I'll be covering will be Jade and Tanya.




Jade



Appearance: I like Jade's Amazon warrior look. Perhaps it could use some touches here and there, but the overall theme of the costume is fine by me. With her other costume, I don't mind the hairstyle nor do I mind her trying to have that sort of "ninja-ish" look. But if you're going to go for that type of look, then she shouldn't be wearing a swimsuit-type outfit.

Like I said with Kitana and Mileena, they need to do away with high-heeled footwear and swimsuit-type outfits. From what I remember, I more or less liked Jade's costume in MK: Shaolin Monks though I didn't care for the bun hairstyle. The color schemes for her costumes are fine though for her more "ninja-ish" look, perhaps she should have a darker green color scheme.

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Gameplay: I pretty much agree with you about Jade feeling slow and stiff. I really don't like that. There's no reason for her to be that way. I think she should be fast and strong, with a more offensive gameplay style. I think that Fanziquan should be an influence in her martial arts style due to its fast strikes, joint-locks, and acrobatic techniques as well as its linear and more offensive nature.

It's one of the styles that influenced the creation of Ying Jow Pai (Eagle Claw Style). They simply didn't do justice to Fanziquan (or pretty much any other style). I'd also like to see an influence from Fu Jow Pai (Tiger Claw Style). Back in MK: Trilogy, her fighting stance looked like she had her hands in a tiger claw like shape, and I like that. That could add to her fierceness and strength.

So with her fighting style, the feel should be somewhat similar to Sonya's fighting style in that Jade should be fast, aggressive, and linear. She should definitely be refined in her fighting style, and I think that one aspect that should separate her from Sonya's fighting style, aside from the usage of animal-imitating techniques, is a kind of stealthy feel to her.

This isn't to say that she has to have influences from one of the surviving Ninpo Taijutsu traditions (Togakure Ryu, Kumogakure Ryu, Gyokushin Ryu) or even the martial traditions closely affiliated with the historical Ninja (e.g. Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu).

I think those sorts of martial arts influences are more appropriate for the likes of Scorpion. However, having that stealthy, ninja-ish feel to her style, however it can be properly done, would be nice to have.

Onto her special moves, I disagree with you on her projectile evasion move. If I'm not mistaken, that's actually her best move. It's a matter of knowing how to use it. I think it should be kept. For her projectile, I would prefer having her old boomerang back and having the straight and low boomerang moves.

Also, she could either have her high boomerang move back or she should have the ability to throw the boomerang in the air in the same fashion that Kitana and Mileena threw their weapons in the air in the older games. Her teleport is ok, and I guess it does help. I don't necessarily mind if it returns.

Her Shadow Kick move became too similar to Johnny Cage's Shadow Kick in MKD and MKA. For a power move, she could stick her staff in the ground and propel her body to do a double kick. She could also do one with her swinging her body around the staff to do a less powerful kick but one that tracks.

One last thing I want to say here is that I wish her staff went back to a simpler look. It doesn't have to look too fancy.

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Story: As XiahouDun84 has said in the past, Jade is pretty much what is known as a "wedge" character. She's a character that comes back and provides a supporting role but isn't particularly too important. I like Jade, and I would really like to see her truly develop into her own character. There's a lot that we don't know about her, so there's room for development.

I think that she should separate herself from Kitana and perhaps even Sindel. Maybe if Kitana returns in the future with a bitter attitude and an edge to her, that could cause a bit of tension between her and Jade. Overall, I don't really have any concrete story ideas for her. It's mainly a matter of learning more about her and allowing her to develop and become more important.

There is the whole rivalry with Tanya, which I think at this point is nothing more than loyalist vs. traitor. I don't really like Tanya, and I don't really have much interest in seeing her return. If both Jade and Tanya return, I suppose that they should further develop this rivalry and make it into something interesting.

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Overall: Overall, Jade is a cool character, and I kind of would like to see her return. However, she's not too important. If they don't do anything significant with her character and story, they should do away with her. Either that or just have her as an unlockable character for gameplay purposes only.



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Tanya



Appearance: I don't like Tanya's look, especially her face and eyes in MKD/MKA. She looked a bit too innocent in MK4/MKG, and in MKD/MKA, she has kind of this raccoon girl thing yet she's dressed in a banana outfit. I think she needs a revamp with her overall look, starting with new color schemes for costumes. I'm not sure which colors would be good for her costumes, but I don't really care much for the yellow.

I didn't necessarily mind the overall design of her primary costume. Her alternate costume is meant to be a throwback to her MK4 costume, and I think it should be done away with since it's a swimsuit-type costume. Her hairstyles are fine, I guess. They should do away with the raccoon mask and just have her eyes be normal.

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Gameplay: Gameplay-wise, I don't think she should have influences from either Zi Ran Men nor Yue Chuan. Sure, there's the MKD Konquest stuff where she says that her father taught her Zi Ran Men while she learned Yue Chuan while in Outworld. But even then, you have to get at least a little bit of an understanding as to what these styles are like.

Zi Ran Men is an internal Chinese martial art that is heavily influenced by Taoist philosophy. Yue Chuan is a military type martial art attributed to General Yue Fei. It's a linear style with strikes and grappling. I think that a style like Yue Chuan would be more fitting to someone like Jade, who is a soldier and someone that I can see having a more linear fighting style.

To me, Tanya's fighting style should show her cunning and deceptiveness. It should have a bit of an unpredictable feel to it, and perhaps she can be good with counter attacks. So I can see her be a bit more on the defensive side, which could sort of match against Jade's more offensive fighting style.

For her special moves, she should keep her Drill Kick and Split Kick. I think she could have an aerial version of the Drill Kick that goes down diagonally. I really hated her having this fiery power with her special moves. She doesn't need it at all, and it should be done away with.

I don't think she should have the Find Me move. Her projectiles need to change if she's going to have any. I think for new special moves, they should reflect her cunning and deceptive personality. Perhaps one special move can be a counter attack while another special move could involve deceiving the opponent.

Overall, cunning, deceptiveness, and unpredictability should be the themes to her gameplay style.

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Story: I don't care much for Tanya's story. For the most part, she feels like a "female Kano". She needs to get out of the "backstabbing traitor trying to gain power" schtick and focus more on how she can be a cunning manipulator, especially one who enjoys ruining people's lives. If they bring her and Jade back, Tanya could try to ruin Jade's life as well as the lives of everyone who opposes her. They might as well develop their rivalry if they both come back.

Some suggest that Rain should return and that he and Tanya should have a "Bonnie and Clyde" type alliance. That could be good if it's done right. I do think that there should be evil Edenian characters to balance out the good ones. Other people suggest a rivalry between her and Tanya, which could also be interesting. Tanya would probably be the proud, arrogant bitch who looks down on Mileena.

Either way, they need to step her out of the kind of role she has now and make her into a distinct and interesting villain.

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Overall: Overall, Tanya is a character that I don't like. If she's going to return, she needs fixing in several areas.
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Icebaby
04/10/2009 01:43 AM (UTC)
0
QueenSindel(TheBitch) Wrote:
Here, we discuss the changes we hope to see in returning females for the next game.

Today's Discussion: Ashrah

Appearance - She's the worst-dressed female. Completely boring. The main reason I don't like her.

She needs a total make-over. Whenever I think about a cool Ashrah costume, I think of a wedding dress mixed with MK warrior elements. Obviously, that's because of all the white she wears. She just needs something cooler, and preferably tighter clothes cuz I don't like baggy clothes on women.

I would like her to look like a "white witch."

Gameplay - I hate her fighting styles. The kriss is a great weapon for her, but I did not enjoy using it. I made a much funner kriss style in MKA.

Her special moves are disappointing. She does magic and sorcery. Hello, if she's using voodoo dolls to kill people, she can clearly perform witchcraft. That offers so much potential for cool, wicked moves, but instead she fights with cheap-ass white sparks.

She needs more magic-based moves. Tricky, annoying spells are what I'm talking about. She should also have a teleport move. A stun move would suit her too. And add mystical designs to her moves, not just white sparks.

Story - Well, here's about the only thing I like about her.

What I wanna know is what is she gonna do once Nitara frees her from the spell. It's interesting because all that we know about Ashrah has been a lie. So literally, I don't think we know anything about her.

I wanna know who she was before being taken over by the kriss, and how she came across it. So I'm more interesting in her history than her future. I think whatever her goal was before falling to the kriss should be continued once she is free from it.

Overall, she needs a cooler look, magical attacks, and her true identity should be explained. Like with Nitara, I want her to return only because of her story.


Ashrah is a cool character and should definitely return to the game.

Her appearance made sense. She wants to cleanse herself she should wear white as that's the color that usually represent pure and shit like that. It makes sense to be completely white in her attire. Though I never quite exactly liked how she looked. I hated the hat, I really did. I'm sorry, hats on girls really don't look right... like how the girls don't look right wearing masks in the WWE games.

Ashrah should keep the all white look, but have something different. I liked her secondary outfit a lot, but lets not have too much showing.

I don't feel that her moves need to change. She has original moves, and I love how if you just press X repeatedly for one move I forgot the name, she just twirls and twirls and twirls.

Her story, definitely should have something happen with Nitara or whoever we said. She should definietely get a big role and should not have something with Noob anymore. Let that be Sub-Zero's job to deal with him.

I like your idea on knowing how she became evil and stuff like that.... that could happen too.
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JohnBoyAdvance
04/10/2009 08:04 PM (UTC)
0
I'm in two minds with Ashrah. She does have some interesting features about her. But I just don't find myself interested in her. She just seems too angry for me to like.

But on the other hand she did have cool moves.

Appearance: Primary: MK:D Primary with the net thing covering her whole face rather than just the back.
Secondary: Maybe some voodoo style influences in the basic MK:D Secondary costume: Shrunken heads, skulls etc. Maybe even a mask over her face.

Story: Basic blindly following what The Kriss Sword says. Slaying vampires, demons and the what not. There will be a point where she questions why she hasn't ascended to the heavens, but by that point shes pretty much damned.
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QueenSindel(TheBitch)
04/10/2009 08:30 PM (UTC)
0
JohnBoyAdvance Wrote:
There will be a point where she questions why she hasn't ascended to the heavens

Hey, that's true. I missed that.

Another reason why I want her and Nitara's story continued.
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TrueNoob
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About Me

"There is no knowledge that is not power."

-MK3
04/12/2009 02:54 AM (UTC)
0
QueenSindel(TheBitch) Wrote:
Here, we discuss the changes we hope to see in returning females for the next game.

Today's Discussion: Sheeva

I'm really not a Sheeva fan. I do think she can be more appealing with some changes.

Appearance - Never has she worn anything interesting. MK3 only censored her. MKA, well yeah she looked better but still boring.

She needs a theme. What's her current theme? Nothing. She looks a bit regal, but if regality is her theme then it needs vast improvements. I imagine Sheeva being a brutal killer, something with spikes and chains would really convey that well.

Or an egyptian goddess look might be interesting since she's got multiple arms. Maybe for an alt.

Gameplay - Loved her in MK3. She was fast, powerful, and her moves were not only fun but effective. Ed boon said they intended to make her faster and more agile than Goro, and they executed that beautifully. If she returns, it would so cool if she were fast and agile like in MK3. She simply rocked.

Her special moves are fine. They should all return, but I want them to make better use of those 4 arms.

Story - The only thing I know about her is that she was Sindel's personal protector. So I guess she was a bodyguard. I don't expect anything interesting for her. I'm sure she'll just be someone's servant.

Overall, she needs a theme to her wardrobe. And her speed and
agility should return.


First of all, I 'd like to say, I absolutely love Sheeva. She's one of the first, if not the very first character that drew me into MK in the first place (the other would be Sektor) Those characters just made me fall in love with the game at first glance. Fast. Brutal. Deadly. Visceral. Sheeva exemplified all those qualities. And she looked sexy as hell in her thong.

As far as outfits go, I liked the way she looked in MK3. Absolutely no improvement is needed there. The less, the better with Sheeva. I'm not saying make her completely naked (not that I wouldn't enjoy that) but she has this sexy, yet masculine quality about her, like an Amazon warrior who just embodies this brutal, viscous mentality. She was brutishly powerful but at the same time graceful and deadly.

All I want for Sheeva is to bring her back the same way she was in MK3 but with an expanded moveset. Not bulked up and overly dressed like in MKA. Just simple, elegant and deadly. No need to overaccessorize.

As far as a theme, Sheeva is a walking theme. Have you not heard of Shiva, the Hindu god of destruction? That's where she got her multiple arms. It's a blatantly obvious ripoff, but it is an enjoyable one. There's no need to try and overstate her character.

If anything, they just need some real writers, who will give her a real personality. And, no, more muscles don't make everything better. I want fast, lithe and lethal, not blunt and obvious. They did the same thing with Kai and totally lost the essence of his character. In MK4, he felt like the underdog who must overcome odds but in MKA he becomes an overstated brute. Way to heavy-hand things, Midway. Finesse is the word of the day, people, learn to apply it, or at least actually try. I'm sick of my favorite franchise being in the hands of people who are less mature and less talented than myself. I'm not being conceited, I'm merely expressing my point of view. I could do better than this in my sleep. Maybe I can't code a game engine from the ground up, but I know a quality product when I see one. The MK team should take some lessons in said subject. Maybe it's time to pass the torch, to some younger, more talented developers, who are actually passionate about the things that made MK great. I want a fighting game I can take seriously. Until then, I guess there's always Soul Calibur and Street Fighter.

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JohnBoyAdvance
04/12/2009 09:48 AM (UTC)
0
I luff mai Sheeva. Her story brought up interesting points about Outworld politics. That was ever such a long time ago though.

Overall, I want to see new shokan characters more than I want to see the old ones come back. And new tarkatan ones. Its bloody ridiculous.

I kinda love the fact that she is the stereotypical "monster" female and yet managed to have a better looking face than most of the "attractive" females in Armageddon! Good ol' Midway.

She needs her skin rip fatality back though. Maybe even a self skin rip hara kiri as well.

Storyline: Its clear that she has been resurrected and seeing as we don't actually know if she has sided with Shinnok (It was all a test for Taven, lol) its hard to see what she is actually going to do. I kinda want her to become a sort of peace ambassador, siding with Edenia and against Goro because he seems to have sided with Kahn. And she probably wants revenge against Kano and Shao Kahn as well! So yeah I want her to be a half goody again.

If she has sided with Shinnok then she is a basic enforcer. sad

Appearance: I did like her Armageddon primary but she was too bulky. Presumably because she was a slightly thinned down Goro with tits. She does need new gear. (as do all of the shokans.)
Primary: I love the idea of Sheeva having Egyptian styled robes. Something delicate covering something viscous.
Secondary: I did managed to do a Sheeva in SCIV! (You do have to use your imagination a bit though!.) It was the Voodoo stuff. I like the idea of using your opponent's bones as your amour. I had a whole story for the frigging costume! Something like that. Maybe even a centaur horn on a belt.
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Icebaby
04/12/2009 12:35 PM (UTC)
0
QueenSindel(TheBitch) Wrote:
Here, we discuss the changes we hope to see in returning females for the next game.

Today's Discussion: Sheeva

I'm really not a Sheeva fan. I do think she can be more appealing with some changes.

Appearance - Never has she worn anything interesting. MK3 only censored her. MKA, well yeah she looked better but still boring.

She needs a theme. What's her current theme? Nothing. She looks a bit regal, but if regality is her theme then it needs vast improvements. I imagine Sheeva being a brutal killer, something with spikes and chains would really convey that well.

Or an egyptian goddess look might be interesting since she's got multiple arms. Maybe for an alt.

Gameplay - Loved her in MK3. She was fast, powerful, and her moves were not only fun but effective. Ed boon said they intended to make her faster and more agile than Goro, and they executed that beautifully. If she returns, it would so cool if she were fast and agile like in MK3. She simply rocked.

Her special moves are fine. They should all return, but I want them to make better use of those 4 arms.

Story - The only thing I know about her is that she was Sindel's personal protector. So I guess she was a bodyguard. I don't expect anything interesting for her. I'm sure she'll just be someone's servant.

Overall, she needs a theme to her wardrobe. And her speed and agility should return.


I always thought that Sheeva was cool, not because she was the first playable four armed character, but because she had really cool moves and I liked her story.

Her appearance I couldn't understand quite so much on why make her look like she barely had anything on at all. I think that she should wear something that fits her name, though doesn't get the whole team sued or make it "controversial" because they want to give her a more Hindu-ish look. I think she would look BADASS if she had a look more like the original God Shiva... though keeping it to where they're not exactly making her look exactly like it.

Her moves are fine, but they should show more power, if I get stomped by a creature like her, there's no way that would be taking 5% of my health away... (though in my situation, I'd be dead after the first ground pound she executes)

Her story needs to be different. She's considered to be Sindel's bodyguard, but yet, that's the third person who is acquainted with Sindel. You have Jade and Kitana not to mention you have a lot of other characters in this particular story by including Tanya and Mileena in it... it should just be between these five characters for a huge story, leave Sheeva out of it. Sheeva should be on her own, though something needs to happen to her if she comes back and is not working with Sindel. I always wondered what she would be like if she turned evil... though yet, that might ruin her completely. She should seriously get a new story, have something happen with the Minotaur and the Shokan, now that would be an interesting story since it only happened like once or twice.
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Sub-Zero_7th
04/12/2009 03:05 PM (UTC)
0
Sindel



Appearance: Sindel has the swimsuit costume and high-heeled footwear issues that Kitana, Mileena, and Jade have had. I think that one of her costumes should have that "warrior queen" look and feel with the purple and black color schemes. The other one could be a somewhat more casual outfit with darker color schemes akin to those in her MKD/MKA alternate costume.

I think they need to work on her hair a bit. I'd like to see hair go down from the sides of her head, because it looks a bit strange to see all of that hair go down the back of her head. At least that's what it looks like to me.

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Gameplay: Gameplay-wise, I could see her having a graceful and elegant look as well as being refined and strategical. Perhaps she could be a bit of a defensive character. Martial-arts wise, I'd definitely like to see a strong influence from Cha Chuan (spelled Zha Chuan in MKD and MKA), which has that graceful feel to it. I could see influences from not only Cha Chuan but other traditional Northern Chinese martial arts.

She could also have a Baguazhang influence. I did say that Baguazhang suits Kitana and that it could be an influence in her martial arts style. However, there are different sub-styles of Baguazhang, one of which is the Yin style. The Yin style has linear attacks, which may be a surprise to people that generally think of Baguazhang as a style that has a lot of circular movements.

So Sindel's style can have influences from one Ba Gua sub-style while Kitana's style can have influences from another Ba Gua sub-style, such as the Yin style.

For Sindel's special moves, she should obviously keep her Banshee Scream. I'd like to see her have a version of the move where she does it sideways. It would have a slower startup, but it would track since it goes sideways. I'm not too crazy about her Sliding Foot Grab move, and I'm not so sure on her Star Screamer projectile.

I mean, it's kind of a bland projectile. She could always have her fireball and double fireball moves from the older games, but then that could be an issue of having more fireball moves. Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't want her to have a projectile. I just think that if she's going to have one, it should be distinct and useful.

I'd like to see her with flight ability along with multiple aerial attacks. It would be nice to see some moves with her hair. Some people erroneously talk about her throw from MK3 as if it was one of her special moves. She could have that as a special move along with a hair whip move akin to what she did in MK: Annihilation. They need to fix her throw or give her new ones, because it STILL sucked (from a gameplay perspective).

Overall, I'd like to see her to have that warrior queen feel in her fighting style and to have lots of touches done with her special moves. I hope she'll be more effective, gameplay-wise.

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Story: While Sindel had an important role in MK3's story, she became the kind of character that Jade is now in that she is sort of in Kitana's shadow. I mean, she's supposed to be the Queen of Edenia while Kitana is its princess. We haven't really seen much of what Sindel has done after MK3, and if she continues to be in Kitana's shadow, she might as well be killed off.

Don't get me wrong. I like Sindel, and I'd like to see her potential explored. I just think that for the purposes of "trimming the fat" in the roster, if you're not going to do something interesting with a character such as her, you might as well not have her return. The same can be said for Jade, whom I am also a fan of.

As Edenia's queen, I can understand Sindel sticking in the Edenia sub-plot. However, she should not be stuck in it. I'd like to see what she is capable of as the Queen of Edenia, both as a diplomatic figure as well as a military leader. She should also side with the heroes against the villains. I'd also like to see a bit of exploration into her personality.

If they were to go with something along the lines of what I suggested for Kitana's story, that could cause tension between the two. Maybe Sindel could be put into a position in which she is forced to compromise to a villain or some villains, which would betray the heroes. Perhaps if Taven becomes the new protector god of Edenia, his attitude and certain actions could cause Sindel problems.

Overall, I don't have too much of an idea for Sindel in terms of story ideas.

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Overall: Overall, I like Sindel. If she's going to return, they need to do quite a bit with her, especially with her story.


--------------------



Li Mei



Appearance: A primarily Chinese-influenced style to her costumes would be fitting for her character. I really like her MKD/MKA alternate costume, and I think that characters such as Sindel and Kitana could have a similar kind of costume (in theme, not exactly similar looking, mind you).

I wouldn't mind it if Li Mei kept her MKD/MKA alternate costume. Her other costume could be a more casual one. Maybe they could try to give a costume similar to something that Zhang Ziyi's character wore in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon since Li Mei's character seems to be influenced from that movie.


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Gameplay: In terms of her gameplay, I liked her best in MKD. Her gameplay significantly stepped up. In terms of her martial arts style, I think she should have a lot more of that internal martial arts influence, using fluid movements and relying more on internal power. Liu He Ba Fa, which they misspelled as 'Lui He Ba Fa', is just fine as the basis for her style.

If they wanted to have her with some linear and aggressive aspects, especially considering her role in the Outworld forces (not the ones aligned with Shao Kahn or Onaga, of course), I suppose they could throw in influences from Bajiquan and Piguazhang.

They did a TERRIBLE job of portraying Bajiquan in MKDA while they did a pretty good job with Piguazhang. Those two internal styles complement each other, and she would be pretty kick-ass with influences from those two styles along with Liu He Ba Fa.

If she's going to have a weapon of some sort, maybe she's better off with a long-ranged weapon such as the Pudao since she has the military thing going on as well as the overall Chinese-influenced theme to her character.

About her special moves, I don't mind any of them. I just don't like the fact that she didn't gain any new special moves after MKDA. I think that most of her special moves should be based on her martial arts skills, and they could have that Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon sort of feel to them. If they are going to have the kind of recovery time they do with her projectile, perhaps it should have a bit of a stun effect to it.

Overall, with an internal martial arts influence in her fighting style, I could see her being a bit more of an intermediate-level character, someone that's not as easy to get into and master as perhaps Sonya.

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Story: Story-wise, Li Mei started out as that 'young and naive' character. I didn't really care for her too much back in MKDA, but I actually liked her in MKD. You had the father/daughter (or at least teacher/student) relationship with her and Bo' Rai Cho and her struggle with being drawn to Onaga. Back in MKDA, Li Mei was very much a solo character who didn't interact with the other heroes since she had her own little side story.

So I can imagine that at this point, especially with her interaction with Bo' Rai Cho, she would be with the other heroes and interact with them. In Armageddon, I have to wonder if Onaga still has some kind of leverage on Li Mei, possibly using her to turn on the heroes.

In the next-gen story, I could either see her becoming the protagonist of the Outworld side of the story or she could become an antagonist, falling to evil. If I remember correctly, in MKD's unlockable kontent section with Li Mei's armor designs, it said something about her cold demeanor. I think that has to do with the taint. So with that said, you have different possibilities with Li Mei's character.

If she continues her story as a hero, maybe she might not be so nice all the time and could be a bit of a loose cannon. If she continues her story as a villain, they need to make sure that she is distinct and interesting. I'm not sure which of the two paths is better. MKDA was the first MK game to have characters from Outworld who are actually heroes. Granted, Ermac could also be involved with the Outworld side of the story. But I do think that Li Mei has more relevance to that sub-plot.

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Overall: Overall, Li Mei is a cool character. She seems to be somewhat underrated. I think she has enough potential to be worthy of continuing on to the next generation. She's still a young and fairly new character, and I think it would be a shame not to explore her character some more.
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JohnBoyAdvance
04/15/2009 12:58 PM (UTC)
0
QueenSindel(TheBitch) Wrote:
Here, we discuss the changes we hope to see in returning females for the next game.

Today's Discussion: Khameleon

Last but not least... the "female Reptile." At least that's what her original bio implied.

Appearance - A female Reptile would be totally awesome. She should look like Reptile, except... female. A greenish ninja-type costume. Also I'd love it if her hair were shaped like a lizards tail. You know, long with spikes down the middle and out the sides.

Gameplay - Well if she's a raptor, she should have reptilian moves. Her own acid move, maybe invisibility, a sneeky charge attack, etc.

Story - She could definitely save Reptile from being a servant boy. With her in the picture, I imagine they could swerve into their own direction. So she should have something to do with Reptile.

Overall, more reptilian and with her own moves, not Kitana, Jade, and Mileena's.

Well that's it people. Those are all the MK Women.


I can name 3 more. tongue 2 of them even appeared in Armageddon!

Anyway: Khameleon

Everyone wants her to be Female! Reptile. But it does make more sense for her to be a Female! Chameleon.

Appearance: Primary: Her Armageddon gear. Only shinier!
Secondary: Female! Reptile. Definitely something interesting can be done with the hair.

Story: I don't know. Shes got the whole "Last female of Reptile's species" thing going. But thats about it. She hasn't even mentioned Chameleon as a possible mate. She should be trying to get Reptile out of the loop of following people.
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Sub-Zero_7th
04/15/2009 02:22 PM (UTC)
0
Here are my next two character discussions:


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Sareena



Appearance: The thing with characters like Sareena is that they have the goth style to their look. I think it suits her character, but I do think that she needs new costumes. One of her costumes could have the goth theme to it, with black as the primary color scheme.

In MK: Resurrection, I came up with a costume idea for her that was Chinese-influenced. The purpose of it was to show her affiliation with the Lin Kuei without dressing up as a Lin Kuei warrior. She would be covered up instead of being more revealing like she has been.

Black should be her main color scheme with her costumes, but it would be cool to see some red and/or magenta as well. Hair-wise, she's ok, but they need to make her look like she did in MK Mythologies: Sub-Zero and get her face right. The fact that her face looked messed up was one thing I didn't like about her in MK: Armageddon.

I don't understand where you got the idea that Sareena turned into a demon in her MKA ending. In her MKA ending, she gained the ability to freeze and used it against Quan Chi.

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Gameplay: In terms of her fighting style, I can see her being fairly similar to Sonya in the sense that she should be an easy character to get into and master who is fast, linear, and uses hard-hitting attacks. While I see a Tae Kwon Do influence as the basis for Sonya's fighting style, along with influences from Boxing and Judo, Sareena could have influences from Chuojiao (which they misspelled as 'Chou Jaio') and/or Yuan Yang Quan (Mandarin Duck Boxing). Both characters could be a bit more kicking-oriented. I sort of see that with Sareena for some reason.

Since Chuojiao was used by Ashrah, a former member of the Brotherhood of the Shadow, perhaps Sareena knows that style as well. Since Sub-Zero knows Yuan Yang Quan and taught it to Frost when she joined the Lin Kuei, he could teach it to Sareena. If one thinks that Sareena's style should have some of that aggressiveness and fierceness, maybe she could have influences from Hei Hu Quan (Black Tiger Fist), which is an external style that imitated the black tiger.

Getting into her special moves, I like all of them, but most of them need to be fixed. Her throwing knife is way too cheap. It needs to be slowed down, and she shouldn't be able to throw several of them very quickly. I think her pop-up special could be slowed down a bit. Her gut strike special move is too predictable and should have delay options in order to make it more useful by being more unpredictable.

When it comes to new special moves, they should be in relation to her abilities as a demon. I thought up of a healing move in which she ducks to the ground, putting her hands on it, and absorbs energy. This is inspired by the story element of her regaining her human form by absorbing Outworld's energy.

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Story: I have to disagree with you about Sareena's story. I think that out of the female characters, she has one of the better stories. She still struggles with her demonic side, and she seems to want to be human.

I don't think that Sareena and Sub-Zero should be romantically involved. That sounds cliché, and I personally see Sub-Zero as an asexual character. And besides, it seems that Sareena had a bit of a subtle attraction to his older brother.

I think that when Quan Chi used his magic on Sareena, he must have done some kind of "mind fuck", because his magic influence convinced her that she is not a "being of light".

She didn't turn evil in her MKA ending. She used her newfound freezing abilities against Quan Chi. I think you meant to say "bio".

Whoever wrote her bio, which was probably John Vogel, did a very smart thing by writing it the way he did. He took a really stupid mistake in MKA's Konquest and fixed it by showing Sareena as the conflicted character that fans want her to be.

It seems that when Taven defeated Sareena that he might have broken Quan Chi's spell over her. If not, maybe Sub-Zero did that later on in the story.

Either way, I kind of get that feeling that Sareena is back on Sub-Zero's side, and I think that's how it should be in the next-gen story.

One of the constant themes of her next-gen story should be to find a way to control her demonic side and gain humanity. Perhaps she could come across Ashrah and obtain the Kriss. It would probably be more interesting if they had a rivalry since Ashrah is influenced by the Kriss and feels she needs it to slay the Vampires and would feel that Sareena is an enemy that is to be destroyed.

If Noob Saibot returns in the next-gen story, Sareena could definitely be involved with his story. We don't know if Sub-Zero told her that Noob Saibot was once his brother. I would prefer it if Sareena found out from Noob Saibot himself.

Maybe he would try to appeal to her, trying to convince her that her true nature is to be a demon and that she belongs in the Netherrealm. Noob Saibot can use her to get the upper hand against Sub-Zero.

I don't really see her interacting much or at all with the other heroes. I think she has the potential to become her own protagonist.

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Overall: I really like Sareena, and I think she has good potential that should not be put to waste. With some touches here and there as well as the right kind of story path, she could really be awesome. I'd definitely like to see a constant presence of her in the future MK games.

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Frost



Appearance: Appearance-wise, Frost is pretty distinct from the other females. Perhaps her hair could be a little bit longer, and maybe there could be a strand of her hair going down each side of her face. I like her primary costume better than her alternate costume. I don't have any costume ideas for her, but she should keep her blue and black color schemes.

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Gameplay: I also think that Tongbeiquan suits her, and I still think that it should be an influence in her fighting style. I'm not sure if she should also have Yuan Yang Quan as an influence in her style.

You seem to feel that Tongbeiquan is kind of linear, and if that's true, that could be because she is likely using the 5 Element sub-style of Tongbeiquan, which is direct. Even so, I still think she's fine with it.

I don't like to consider the Lin Kuei as "ninjas", but if she's going to have some stealthiness to her, she'll probably have to have some made up moves. Her daggers are fine by me as well, but like you said, they need to feel "fast and furious".

For her special moves, she got a lot better in that department in MKA. Without that, she would have been absolute garbage in that game since her styles sucked. I guess I wouldn't mind her keeping all of them if she were to return. The thing is, from a gameplay perspective, it's good to mix up her Ground Freeze with her Icy Puddle to trick the opponent.

So overall, it's a matter of not making her gameplay style suck in terms of effectiveness. She should be a pretty fast character.

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Story: Story-wise, she doesn't really much going for her. She's the somewhat undisciplined student who becomes a traitor.

I'm not too crazy about your story ideas. Why do we need yet ANOTHER clan? That isn't to say that there should not be any new factions in the next-gen story.

But the thing is, there is Sektor and the Tekunin, who has the potential to be in direct opposition to Sub-Zero and the Lin Kuei. I don't see how Frost can persuade some of the current Lin Kuei members to join her in forming a new clan when she attacked and killed many of her fellow Lin Kuei warriors.

Even when Frost tried to attack Sub-Zero and later tried to attack the Lin Kuei in search of him, Sub-Zero still shows his mercy. She seems to have learned a bit about her ancestry considering the way her MKA ending was. However, there was no indication of such in her MKU bio.

Even though I kind of like Frost, I don't like her as much as I probably used to. I don't really have enough interest in wanting her back. However, if she's going to return, she should perhaps side with one of Sub-Zero's great enemies. I think that it would be better to have her side with Noob Saibot, and he could use Sub-Zero's failure to guide her in the right direction against him.

One story element that developed in her MKU story was her dementia in which she saw everyone as Sub-Zero. If she returns, that could be something that could continue on, making her a danger to just about everyone. But if she's going to side with Noob Saibot or another of Sub-Zero's great enemies, she probably shouldn't have her dementia anymore.

You know...maybe it would have worked out better had Frost still been with Lin Kuei and not made her move against Sub-Zero so soon. When you bring Sareena into the picture, there could be that potential to develop a rivalry between the two. Frost could have tried to make Sareena look bad so that Sub-Zero loses trust in her. But since that kind of story direction can't take place, Frost should definitely do something else.

Icebaby Wrote:
I think she should return with no memory or something. I remember talking about this on a thread I made a while back that she should return with no memory and try to regain it, but she joins forces with the wrong people... basically a confused amnesiac working on the evil side even though they don't really need to be with them at all.


That wouldn't work, because she still has her memories.

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Overall: I'm not too interested in seeing Frost return. I just don't see enough potential in her. If she does return, she needs to really be worked on in the gameplay and story departments.
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QueenSindel(TheBitch)
04/15/2009 07:25 PM (UTC)
0
JohnBoyAdvance Wrote:
I can name 3 more. tongue 2 of them even appeared in Armageddon!

Really?

Taven's mother doesn't count. Who are the rest?
Avatar
JohnBoyAdvance
04/15/2009 08:12 PM (UTC)
0
Kia and Jataaka. They appeared with Sareena in the Red Dragon Base.

Tasia from MK: Special Forces was the other one I was going on about.

Forgot about Delia.
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QueenSindel(TheBitch)
04/16/2009 06:22 PM (UTC)
0
JohnBoyAdvance Wrote:
Kia and Jataaka. They appeared with Sareena in the Red Dragon Base.

Tasia from MK: Special Forces was the other one I was going on about.

Oh yeah.

I don't think they'll ever be playable though.
Avatar
Sub-Zero_7th
04/17/2009 03:21 PM (UTC)
0
I think that if you're going to do Kia and Jatakka, you might as well do them together, because there really isn't a whole lot to them. It's Sareena that actually has the development in the story. If we do see them again, I guess they would be obstacles for Sareena, and maybe they could side with Noob Saibot or return to Shinnok.

Anyway, here are my next 2 character discussions:


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Nitara



Appearance: Like Sareena, Nitara is a kind of character that has that sort of goth theme to her look. Like Mileena, I can kind of understand her being one of the more revealing females. However, I don't think she needs to be a very revealing character. She can still cover up and look good.

One of her costumes can be somewhat of a formal attire to show a high status amongst the Vampires. Another costume could be more warrior-like. One thing that needs to change is that her knife should be on her waist instead of being near her crotch. I think it's kind of strange and doesn't make sense.

In MK: Resurrection, we had Nitara's wings fold in and come out when she does special moves involving it. Perhaps the MK team could do the same with her.

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Gameplay: Gameplay-wise, I can see her being similar to Kira in terms of both of them being cunning and tactical. Those qualities should be reflected in Nitara's fighting style. However, I do think that Nitara's fighting style should utilize her speed and have a bit of an animalistic quality to it.

I do think that both Baoxingquan (Leopard form Boxing) and Fu Jow Pai (Tiger Claw Style) suit her well. While I agree with the claw-like attacks from Fu Jow Pai, I actually think that Leopard suits her better due to its speed and power as well as its cunning tactics. I wouldn't mind seeing both styles be influences in her fighting style. That would be great, in my opinion.

For Nitara's special moves, I think that they should always make good use of her abilities as a vampire. I'm glad they modified the Blood Spit and gave her the ability to use it when she's in the air. I think both of those moves should be kept. I kind of like her Quick Escape, but it's better if they simply give her a flight ability, something that I think should also be given to characters like Sindel.

I'm not too fond of her Unicorn Kick. Tanya had essentially the same move, and I didn't find Nitara's Unicorn Kick to be all that useful. Maybe they should take her throw and turn it into a special move with a pouncing animation. She has a small knife so maybe she could do something with it. Perhaps it should be a physical attack such as a swipe. That's what Paragon and I did for her in our MK: Resurrection project. Nitara could even have a hypnosis attack to ensnare her opponents for a free hit.

Overall, her gameplay style should be fast, cunning, and make good use of her vampire abilities.

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Story: I like Nitara's character and story. She has nice potential, and I'd love to see her return. I feel that we should learn more about the Vampire race, and I like the story with Ashrah and the Datusha. At the end of Nitara's bio, she was talking about Blaze's power. She was intent on getting it to use against Ashrah, but of course, that power is meant for Taven and Daegon.

In the next-gen story, I would like to see her role in her home world and have a continuation of the rivalry between her and Ashrah. I hope that we learn more about the Datusha and how it could possibly be stopped. I want to see how the Vampire race deals with people from other realms and how that could tie into the overall story.

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Overall: At first, I was reluctant about a vampire character being in an MK game. But thankfully, I quickly grew to like her. I was disappointed that she wasn't in MK: Deception, but I'm glad that she returned in MK: Armageddon. One of the things that I was wondering was how they were going to continue her story. Her story in MK: Deadly Alliance left off with her returning to Vaeternus, and Raiden's ending hints that the Vampires might become a future threat.

I think she's cool, and I feel that she has enough potential to be worthy of continuing in the future MK games.

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Ashrah



Appearance: Ashrah has a pretty distinct appearance. She covers up more than any other female in MK, which is a good change. I think that the "female Raiden" comments are stupid, because her hat isn't even the same kind of hat that Raiden wears.

I like her overall look, but I don't care too much for her alternate costume. White is a fitting color scheme for her costumes, and I don't want that to change. Perhaps some of her costumes could have an Egyptian and/or Arabian influence. I kind of agree with you about trying to go for the "white witch" look. That could be good.

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Gameplay: I feel that Ashrah's gameplay style should have a sense of refinement and sophistication to it. Both Chuojiao and Baguazhang were good choices, but with her usage of the Kriss, I would like to see Indonesian and Malaysian martial arts be the central influences in her style. So for example, I could see a Malay martial art such as Silat Seni Gayong as a huge influence in her fighting style since it goes with her weapon.

Speaking of the Kriss, Silat Seni Gayong apparently teaches the usage of the Kriss, and that's one of the reasons why I think it would suit her. I feel that Ashrah needs to use her Kriss more accurately, because the Kriss is designed for stabbing and poking as opposed to cutting and slashing. So really, she should have a sort of linear quality to her Kriss usage. There should mainly be poking, stabbing, and thrusting moves.

For Ashrah's special moves, I think some changes should be made. I don't think she needs her Heavenly Light move, and I don't really find myself using Nature's Torpedo. I mainly use her Lighting Blast and Spin Cycle. In MK vs. DC, Raiden had a special move that was somewhat similar to the Lighting Blast, and his move had a charge to it. Perhaps Ashrah's Lighting Blast could have a charge to it as well.

I feel a little bit conflicted about her Spin Cycle. It's arguably her best special move from a gameplay perspective. The thing is, it's essentially the same special move that Kung Lao had in the older MK games. I like both characters, and I'd like to see them return with Kung Lao having his spinning move as well. Honestly, it helps her gameplay, and I don't necessarily mind it too much for her to have it.

In terms of new special moves, it would be cool to see her have special moves regarding her voodoo-esque powers. If they do a sort of gameplay style in which weapons are involved into special moves and stuff, she could have some special moves with the Kriss.

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Story: You said that you want to know who she was before being taken over by the Kriss. Well, the thing is, Ashrah explains that in her MKD bio, so it doesn't seem to me like you even read her story in that game.

To give a quick recap, she is a demon who was part of the Brotherhood of the Shadow. She abandoned Quan Chi's side and escaped. He sent her fellow "sisters" after her, and she discovered the Kriss, using it to kill one of them. It "purified" her, and she came to the realization that she can use it to kill demons in order to become purified and therefore leave the Netherrealm.

So her history has already been established. They should continue with the story she has now. Although I'd like to see a continuation of her hunting the Vampires, I would like to see her tied into Sareena's story. Given Ashrah's apparently zealous nature, she could also possibly side with Raiden, something that XiahouDun84 did in his next-gen MK stories.

One thing that must be done is that they need to tell us more about the Datusha. I'd also like to know who the "heavenly beings" that talked to Ashrah are. Are they truly "heavenly beings" or are they really evil?

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Overall: Overall, Ashrah is a unique character compared to the other females. I like how distinct she is, and I find her to be interesting. She's definitely an underrated character like Kira, but I hope that she returns. For a character that seemed to be pretty good in MKD, she became more of a grey-area character in MKA, which is more interesting. I hope they stick with that.

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After this, I'll be posting my thoughts on Khameleon and Sheeva, and that should be it. I doubt there's really anything else for me to say regarding Kia and Jatakka.
Avatar
QueenSindel(TheBitch)
04/17/2009 05:46 PM (UTC)
0
Sub-Zero_7th Wrote:

Nitara
Story: I like Nitara's character and story. She has nice potential, and I'd love to see her return. I feel that we should learn more about the Vampire race, and I like the story with Ashrah and the Datusha. At the end of Nitara's bio, she was talking about Blaze's power. She was intent on getting it to use against Ashrah, but of course, that power is meant for Taven and Daegon.

In the next-gen story, I would like to see her role in her home world and have a continuation of the rivalry between her and Ashrah. I hope that we learn more about the Datusha and how it could possibly be stopped. I want to see how the Vampire race deals with people from other realms and how that could tie into the overall story.

I agree

Ashrah

Story: You said that you want to know who she was before being taken over by the Kriss. Well, the thing is, Ashrah explains that in her MKD bio, so it doesn't seem to me like you even read her story in that game.

To give a quick recap, she is a demon who was part of the Brotherhood of the Shadow. She abandoned Quan Chi's side and escaped. He sent her fellow "sisters" after her, and she discovered the Kriss, using it to kill one of them. It "purified" her, and she came to the realization that she can use it to kill demons in order to become purified and therefore leave the Netherrealm.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about Quan Chi and her sisters. Duh.

Well, now that her backstory is covered, I just wanna know about her future once she's freed from the kriss' spell. How will she react when she realizes her work and mission were all a lie, and what direction will that lead her in?

I'd also like to know who the "heavenly beings" that talked to Ashrah are. Are they truly "heavenly beings" or are they really evil?

They were only a hallucination that the Datusha used to manipulate her.
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