why am I seeing people posting like they are on 4chan when they are not on 4chan

how embarrassing

And we love that grimey motherfucker for it.

Somebody need to teach T-Rex that he is not on imageboard, so all this imageshitposting and "implying" stuff make him look like a little schoolboy. Though, the way he talks points at the same thing.


In my turn, I am fascinated how somebody could be so obsessed with his vision to the point, where he is completely blind to the reason and actual facts about story.

Namely, Cyrax opinion about cyber-initiative was left vague in OT. It could be fit with anything, but it doesn't make any approach actual canon. Your imagination is not canon and you are not part of MK-Team so your dubious statements is just that: dubious statements. No amount of insults and stupid butthurt will change that.

Time to learn to live with the fact that you are just, unimportant fanboy, whose words mean nothing to anyone.


I meant Original Timeline, which is kind of obvious.
But of course, you'll say otherwise.
What can I expect from you...ha-ha.


He did not want to become human in MK Gold? Really?


Give me example to work with and I'll do it.
But this wannabe cool attitude does nothing to me. Just make me question your maturity. As always.


My conclusions based on logic and statements from canon.
Your conclusions based on filling gaps with your imagination.
This is a principal difference between our approaches.


There is literally nothing that points to his personality. It'a all about his general character and the story.

Steps 1 and 2 were the same in the NT and they were the most crucial to the character development. Steps 3 and 4 have slightly changed perception of the character and his story. Ultimately he is still a good guy and he is still loyal to Sub-Zero. And he has become a tragic woobie...and promtly forgotten in unimportance. Well, his character has changed, but the same can be achived in NT and fact that it was ommited in NT, doesn't make it worse by default.


I finished school quite a time ago.
As for you, I can't be sure, really. Your manners, including blatant overuse of imageboard stuff kind of hints that perhaps you are still part of this "wonderfull" institution. Or at least you preserved the same mindset. Which is not really a boon to your existence. As well as mine.


No.
But they've received exstensive development in them.
In any case, at the time, they were mostly typical and basic stereotypes at best.


You are missing context, which is important part of this statement.
Good to now, that even after all this years I once again must play Captain Obvious with you.


This number is not so big, which is important in this matter. I hardly see how c-lister without major role in the story or visible presence in it, can have "large emotional impact".

Smoke's popularity mainly comes from the fact, that MK fans are obsesed with the ninjas and secret characters. And Smoke was three times in this position. In many ways he is like Reptile, who is by all accounts should be a c-lister, but apparently his status as a "ninja" and "first secret character" always bring him some attention.

The rest is statistical error: they are always people who like unpopular characters. Even Meat has fans.


No, my next line would be that MK is not your typical story and a lot of other factors dictate its shape, besides, some "science of narrative" or whatever.
MK is not an epic like Lord of the Rings and don't have the same emotinal impact as Godfather...because it was never meant to be this way.

It's a simplistic story, where a lot of factors at work, when it comes to building narrative, character development and the like. MKDA-MKD is sort of living testament to that idea. But of course, it easier to ignore something that ruins your precious little bubble.


You are funny man.
You expect me to base my response on some random characters, who as, I admitted, I have never seen before and instead of providing at least some insight, you blame me that I don't get your longwinded ideas...

I wonder: does your head have even an ounce of logic inside of it? Or it's just an endless stream of "implying of implications", reaction images and random emotions flying around?


Geee...Way to go dude!!

You for the N-th time managed to accomplish impossible and completely missed the point of what I was saying, even if it was in plain sight. Not only that, but you once again showcased you Super Imagination Powers (TM) and filled what you presumed to be errors, with your own made up, baseless conclusions. It always like this with you, is it?

Oh, well. Time to state obvious again.
I think that MK so far managed to stay on the right line between being "supergrimderpdarkmaturewannabepsycholigcalshit" and "completely pointless entertainment without storytelling value".

It's neither here nor there. And I am completely OK with this. Because, Grim MK would not really work without major changes to the core of the series. Taking seriously halfnaked ninja girls, constant ressurections, meaningless deaths, cheap villains who plot to destroy / conquer the world, over the top magicks...is pointless endeavour.

Of course, you can do that, if you are 14 (which I suspect to be the case of this major misunderstanding between us) for example. But as I said before it's not really worth the effort and aknowldedging how ridicolous story is, is not a demeaning act of sacrilige to it.

Also, comic book, won't make it super serious. Though, I suppose if you take other comic books seriously, then it could mean something to you. Though, it just another reason to think of you as figure with a very odd approach.

But more about MK comic book. It just the way to flesh out more story, yes, but in no way it means it will be Super Serious and Super Coherent, especially with promises of Fatalities in every issue. Which returns us to my main point.

MK is a show. Entertaining good show. But, it shouldn't be anything beyond that. At certain point you can cross the line, where attempts to take seriously stuff, which was never meant to be taken seriously, ends up with changing the whole thing into self-parody and stream of awkwardness. Which is my problem with Nolan's Batman actually.

My point is:
when you have some rather ridicolous, over the top premise, there should some be level of self-awareness or at least there should not be total seriousness. Otherwise it will look awkward.


As far as I am concerned you once again missed the point. You can become rich, if somebody would give you a dime, for every time you miss the point of my statements.

But whatever. I have standards. But in case of MK they are kind of lax, because I am not part of development team and whatever ideas I have most likely will not become true, so I take what I can. It doesn't mean that I won't criticize some decisions of MK-Team, if I really dislike them.

My main point, was that people should stop attempting to force their interpretation of the story as canon on others (including developers), when it's not.


Poor kid. You are bad at understanding humorous statements. Well you are bad at everything else so far, so at least you are consistent. I can respect that, if nothing else (well, there IS nothing else). Ha-ha.

I don't think repairing complicated hybrid between human and machine is as easy as you think. Well, maybe in your bizarro universe it is. But being revived, was done so much in MK, which is some sort of running gag now.


Character who has not exactly good writing. At some places.


Burton movies was not really that serious. At least they did not pretend to be psychological and stuff.

GUESS WHO, KIDS


Here's how it works:

>you say something dumb
>people make fun of you with image macros
>more dumb = more images

And considering that this is Sumac we’re talking about here, I think we’re gonna need a lot more images, won’t we?


Cut the moral high horse act, no one’s buying it.

I kept trying to talk to you like a normal person. Probably more than any other person on these boards, I kept trying to reason, rationalize and explain. All I got in return was passive-aggressive bullshit and veiled insults.

So clearly, talking to you like a normal person is pointless. Mocking you seems to be fairly effective, though, so let’s go with that.


You do realize that the conversation was about Smoke this entire time, right?
You do realize that the circumstances of Cyrax's cyberization in the OT are irrelevant, right?
You do realize that the only reason Cyrax was even brought up is to contrast him with Smoke, who is the only one of the three cyborgs who was specifically mentioned as trying to actively escape, right?
You do realize that we aren't even trying to delve into any implications beyond that, right?
You do realize that we're just taking this fact at face value, right?

I’m starting to become seriously concerned for your mental health and well-being at this point. Are you sure you should you be ambulatory?


Whoa there, buddy, don’t hurt yourself moving those goalposts around.

Because if it’s suddenly fair game to compare the entire Original Timeline to MK9, then there's not much to compare, because MKDA alone makes MK9 look like a bad fanfic.


I asked you to pick a character,any character, and describe his personality and character as two separate and distinct entities, which, by all accounts, is some seriously hair-splitting semantics.

Instead, you started doing the same thing you always do when you’re cornered - dodging the question and doing mental gymnastics.

Так и запишем - слив засчитан.


Yeah, that’s what I said:
>makes assumptions and reaches for conclusions when it suits him
>muh logic
>muh canon
>muh context

>anybody else does the exact same thing
>h-headcanon..!

That’s some plusgood doublethink there, comrade.


Honestly, I'm still reeling from the sheer irony of you of all people invoking things like "logic" and "context". I feel like I've accidentally stumbled into some kind of bizarro Stupid Dimension.

How do I get back to planet Earth? It's on the Milky Way.


When you look at the events in the character's life and the actions that the character takes in response to these events, it should at least make you think: “what kind of character would act like that?”

It may not tell you what his morning routine is or how he acts around a girl he likes, but no matter how much you stomp your feet, invent new definitions or try to pretend it doesn’t count, it's still characterization.


What was it that you said?

The circumstances (and, therefore, the context) of Smoke going renegade were framed differently in the OT. I went into a fair bit detail to establish how it's different. Go back and reread my previous posts if you have to, because I'm not going to do it again.


Sure, just like Mileena is ultimately still a bad guy and still wants to kill Kitana.

Literally unchanged, amirite?


Get back to me when that happens.


See, you keep saying that, but considering how much you're struggling with the most bare-bones literary analysis, I think you might understand why nobody seems to be buying it.


>WHAT’S SO SPECIAL ABOUT SMOKE’S STORY I DON’T UNDERSTAND
>why don’t you ask his fa-
>THEY DON’T COUNT


Have you noticed how almost nobody on these boards even bothers to respond to you anymore?

This is why.



So is he popular because MK fans are obsessed with secret characters, or is he a C-lister with a fanbase small enough to handwave away?

Which is it?


I know it's hard, but it's generally a good idea to try to keep your narrative straight.


For once, we actually seem to be in agreement.

MK’s occasionally goofy humor and the fact that it fully embraces its 80s action movie roots are all part of its charm, and if you seriously think that anybody wants MK to go full-on edgy and grimdark, you're delusional.

That said, tone has nothing to do with character development. There are plenty of straight-up farcical comedies out there with well-written characters and actual character development.

When people are telling you to take your job "seriously", it doesn't mean that they're asking you to become a humorless asshole. It means that you should put some actual effort into what you're doing instead of being lazy and sloppy.

The fact that I have to explain this to a person who has allegedly finished school is pretty telling.


As far as I know, you are not a part of any development team.

I guess that means that your standards are "kind of lax" when it comes to everything, then. Because that's sure as hell what it looks like so far.





Those are some hella sweeping statement you've got there for someone who is “not part of development team”, chum.



The examples you’ve chosen don’t help your argument, either.
MK is essentially dark fantasy, so if a team of competent writers were to embrace it and carry it to its logical conclusion, the end result would probably be something along the lines of Dragon Age: Origins or the Witcher, not the Godfather (wtf?).

Fact of the matter is that out of all of the fighting game franchises out there, MK has the potential to be more than "just a show", and when Tobias constantly kept trying to expand and enhance the universe he created with comic books and character-centric spinoffs, he was aware of that potential more than anyone.


Before the comic book announcement, I might have said that the shitty defeatist attitude that you and people like you have is dragging the series down like an anchor.

Thankfully, it seems that the decision-makers at NRS and WB don't share this attitude, so this potential might be realized after all. At least they're trying.


I think you're starting to get confused, because as far as fighting game stories are concerned, MKDA and MKD were anything but simplistic.



Once again, it's the approach that's serious, not the tone.

What matters is that there is apparently an entire year worth of stories to tell and characters ripe for "extensive development". It doesn't matter how serious the tone is if the writer knows what he's doing. For all I care, it could be a light-hearted slice-of-life comedy about Cassie's childhood, and I'd welcome it as long as it's written well.

Actually, in having just written that, I really want it to be made.


On the off chance that you're genuinely interested, image 1 is the concept art of Adam Jensen from DXHR, and image 2 is whatever came up in google under "mad scientist". I think it's supposed to be Hojo from FF7, but I'm not entirely sure.

I don't know where image 3 came from. And that's kind of the point, because it doesn't ultimately matter. The only image where knowing the context helps is the one of Robocop, and you actually knew that one.

I picked these images because they are immediately evocative of tropes, ideas and imagery that science fiction has been exploring for decades, if not centuries - transhumanism, mad science, body horror, the trauma of being stripped of your human flesh, becoming a prisoner of your new robotic body and struggling to come to terms with it, what it means to be human, whatever. I even tried to arrange them in a way that kinda tells a story by itself, with no context required. The fact that it's even possible to do that speaks volumes as to the strength of the imagery.

Compared to all of that, I can't think of any way to describe the "mind-controlled slave" trope other than creatively bankrupt.


That’s right, it is a running gag.

And that’s not a good thing.

Constant character deaths and resurrections are the plague of continuous long-running iterative fiction.

Why would you bother treating a character's death with any kind of gravity and weight if you know for a fact he's just going to be revived anyway? Few things lower the stakes and kneecap dramatic tension more than the realization that none of the deaths will stick.

If there was any aspect of the old storyline that needed to be shamefully swept under the carpet, it’d be this. A reboot was the perfect chance to shed all that nonsense and leave it all behind.

Instead, you are actually welcoming it.


Can I go back to Earth now? Your dimension is dumb.




Ah, that must be those famous lax standards at work.


On a sidenote, it’s worth noting that Batman originally started off as a grim, batshit crazy vigilante who kills people mercilessly and is considered a menace by the law. So if we're bringing the creator's intent into this, the darker tone of the Nolan movies is probably more true to the original vision of the character.

I think there is a great deal of obtenebration going on while we argue what constitutes art or not. That is one question that cannot be answered here, by us, or by anyone as an axiom anytime soon. Not because we cannot, or people cannot, but because it is one of the hardest questions to answer.


The tone, artistic tools, scope, atmosphere etc. are no indicators of quality in themselves. A lullaby can be better written and more coherent than MK, and on the other side, a big fantastic epic can be worse than MK. I have read a few myself. Put aside the dressing and the content, the relevant part is the how, the method and didactic actions taken during making the piece.

It's not wether campy, serious comic book or realistic urban fantasy Batman is inherently better than the other: Batman can be, and IS all of those things. That, and sweets hating tyrant.

In fairness, most bad MK fanfic is still better than MK9. Those dudes just want ninjas to bone each other or want someone besides Liu to take a tourney win. It's pretty harmless fluff compared to That's So Raiden.



This is no place for ebonics.



Rex realized for the first time that Sumac's logic was beautiful.



Actually, Dragon Age and Witcher seem like equally odd comparisons to me. I've always preferred to look at MK as Enter The Dragon by way of Heavy Metal.



The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Look at Freddy Kruger from MK9. I think it speaks volumes about MK's true depth that a random dlc z-lister was still strong enough conceptually to create a spin-off film series.

The Thing That Wouldn't Leave?


So, you basically admit yourself, that you are an immature individuum, whose only means of coherent replies involve overuse of internet memes and lingo.

Nice to see that you have clarified it. Not that it was not obvious before. Now, please, go back to the imageboard you've crawled from. No need to embarass good people of MKO with your habits any longer.


So, that's how it works with you: you try to pass your imaginary bullshit as real deal and when somebody doesn't buy it and ask too many questions, they immediately stop being "normal person" and you resort to insulting them instead. Well, that goes nicely with you established above about yourself.

Is it how it works with you in real world too? I mean does everyone who don't agree with you are not considered "normal"? You are funny man really and I don't play any "moral high horse" thing. I just stating facts.

I am also, attempted (and still attempting to certain degree) to talk with you like with normal person, especially considering that once I was able to make you see what I was talking about. But it was several years ago, and I guess time didn't do any favors to your mind. Such a pity.


Way to conviently forget what we have been talking about before. And all this just to make a kindergarden-level insult at me...you are disgusting and pathetic, my friend.

And just to play this game:
I wonder why you doctors allow you to use internet...maybe it's just the only way you can communicate with the outside world, because otherwise you'll be drugged and put in straightjacket? Your agressive attitude surely gives such impression.


I was talking about Original Timeline from the start. But I am not surprised that you was able to figure it out only by now.


I was not cornered, just not interested. My offer still stands. Give me character I am familliar with and I'll give you rundown about it. Otherwise I won't bother. Burden of proof and all that jazz...you know.
Так что сливаешься пока только ты.


Whatever.
Compared to your reaching-until-hand-is-broken assumptions, mine are very tame. As a result they had much more solid ground beneath them.


Ha-ha.
As always, instead of answering to actual problem in question, you decided to "insult" me with some generic school level trash. All I can say is that I pity your pathetic mind. Again.
Oh, and about "logic" and "context"...you are the last person who should use this words in any situation.


And still not a personality.

Gee...you said something that doesn't resemble garbage from the mouth of imageboard teenage dweller...I wonder how much time it took you to came up with reply of actual substance, especially in your wounded state? Still, I commend you on your effort. Even if it was a little moment of lucidity, it made you look like a mature sane person again. Bravo!! Sadly, I don't see it countinuing...but it was nice while it lasted. Like a good ol' times...


None of which have been seriously changed in MK9. They just had happened earlier. As a result, Smoke's character was not really different from his OT self (well, from what was there of his character, really).


Mileena's whole personality and origin have been changed. In case of Smoke only part of his story is missing. And previously he had no origin, nor established personality to speak of.

Those are incomparable changes. In case of Mileena there were a lot of material about her origin, motivations and fair share of character development. Smoke had almost nothing.


Not only it can't take a while (if ever), but also I bet you'll find another reason to consider it somehow "bad". Such is a nature of nostalgia blinded people.


Nobody? I don't see crowds complaning.
All I see is a one not quite smart low-mannered individum trying to prove that his imaginary theories are somehow true. For that purpose he employs ridiculous amount of words, reaching and pseudo-intellectual terms. All of which crumbles, when hit with simple logic. Which usually is all it takes to expose incompetence.
Take it as you wish. Not that you will understand that correctly.


Oh, another imageboard shit. And another stupid and hilarious reaching. And another pathetic insult. Well, your repetoire is getting old. How about something new? Or your creativity doesn't go beyond level of 14 year old? Ha-ha-ha. As expected.

As for the Smoke fans:
I've yet to see them complaining en masse, about MK9 changes. In fact, I know one big fan of his who is "OK" with MK9 Smoke. So, unless you will find a lot of complaints about Smoke in MK9, I am afraid I will be forced to dismiss this pathetic laughable argument as a...well...pathetic laughable argument and insubstantial conjecture. Not for the first time.

But since you are immature wannabe troll, you won't bother with it and all I receive in return will be another stock insult from the depth of some random cesspool. Par for the course for you.


And where is controversy?
His popularity comes from the fact that he was a secret character and a ninja. Later, when him being secret character was no longer relevant, people liked him for his "story" and him still being ninja. No matter what, amount of his fans and not really big, when compared to the likes of Scorpion or even Cage.

Why I need to decipher even the simplistic things for you?


Considering what MK is, there was not much opportunity for consistent character development. If you wasn't living in your imaginary world, you would have figure it out.

Just to remind you, MK is a video game series, which doesn't have clear release schedule - new part can come two or three years after the next one. During development quite a lot of things can change. Writers, managers and technology. All of this can influence story and who is included in the game and who is not.

Making quality character development in a one single game is possible, but it depends on a simple fact: do developers want to give their characters DEEP development or they want to keep them lightweight, when it comes to the story? So far as I can say, they always walked the line between basic archetypes and full-fleshed characters, which is, giving the nature of the MK, is fine by me. The sole exceptions was MKM, which also was not a fighting game and allowed singular story devoted to one character, with all benefits it provides.

With the release of the MKX comic book series, they can delve deeper in the characters, but I think they will keep them just a bit beneath the usual "lightweight" level.

And then another missed point and another insult. Guess, that it your best talent. Well, so far it looks like it is your only talent, since you have not demonstrated anything else of an actual worth.


Depends on quality of the product.
If something was good, then has become bad I will complain.
If something average stays average - I won't.


Obviously, noticing obvious things is hard, when you are oblivious to the real world, being caught in your imaginary fantasy.


If you talk about atmopshere, than no, anything but this. If you talk about character development - it is possible. Though, what result it would have only time will tell.


Yeah, because such attitude certainly influenced developers somehow. Surrrrrrrrre. And of course, you are thinking, that position of people like you, who thought MK can be much more, somehow allowed MKX comic book to happen?

Well, I guess, such point of view could be a compensation for the otherwise unremarkable life. At least, it allows you to say, "they did it because of people like me", while it demands no proof whatsoever. Gladly, reality is different and this decision was made, because MK9 was enormous success, thanks to its story amongst other things, no matter, how bad it was in your eyes.
So, bottom line: you've failed. Again.


Aside from RoboCop, I don't know neither of them.


You once again run rampant with your imagination. Nothing new here.
If somebody doesn't know who are those characters - all your efforts are meaningless. I could put any random pictures in any order and say "see this powerfull imagery?" And since I don't care to provide any kind of context or backstory fro those imaes I can use them to prove whatever point I want to make.
Cheap-o.


Regarding this aspect of MK stories, I don't like it, but I accept it (not welcoming it), because I don't have a choice in the matter.

I am not sure what the hell you think about yourself, but from the look of things, you don't have any influence on developers and all your fantasies are just your...fantasies and nothing else. I don't have any influence on developers too. But unlike you I am not runing around spouting pathetic hatred every single time, when it comes to discussion of the MK9 story.

I voiced my displeasure, when the game was released, when it mattered. And that's it. No point in turning into raving lunatic over video game. I am not sure about you, but it's not centerfold of my life, so if some aspects of it are bad, I could live with that. It's not that important.

You need to finally figure out, beat it in your head, that developers don't care specifically about you. They won't tailor MKX to your personal tastes. They won't hear you. And they won't aplogize for MK9. They will do whatever they want to do, and if something from the new games will somehow coincide with your ideas, it will be purely by accident. But of course, if this happens, you will try to put it like your personal achivement, like certain other forum user.


You are laughable.


Which doesn't make it better for everyone by default.


The more I talk to you, the more I come to realize, that you are not pretending of being retarded.

In the end, you are just an immature kid, who acts like an immature kid, with enourmously inflated self-importance. Pity for everyone, if you are not a kid.


Intense and stupid hatred is intense and stupid.


Why don't you entertain us to your miraculous logic then?
I bet we will laugh together.

OHHHH MYYYY GODDDD.

Wasn't this supposed to be a topic where we discuss if Bi-Han turned into a good guy?

Where just where did it all go soo wrong :O

Sumac posted. Threads derailing when that happens is so consistent you can set your watch by it.

Not one more word.

You are the last person who can accuse anyone in derailing threads.

But of course, you think, that when you do it, it's not "derailing", it's "educating" for the benefit of the humankind. Such is the way of all hypocrites, especially the ones who think of themselves as self-appointed elitists.

Gladly, I have better opinion of humankind to think that they ever will need service of pathetic excuse for wannabe know-it-all LRMSTR, who in reality nothing, but a guy who has too much free time and don't know how to control his imagination. Ha-ha.

If you say so, chief.

I honestly think you are an idiot most of the time.

But what you said there sir, that was pretty accurate lol.

1, I don't hate MK9. I think the changes made to both the story and gameplay were both, looking long term, probably for the best. That said, the execution left a lot to be desired.

2. A literary reference went above Sumac's head. Shock of shocks.

I don't know who are you, but I am fairly sure I haven't insulted you in any way shape or form, yet. So, I am not really sure what have warranted such reaction...But keep going. You already have demonstrated yourself not from the best side.
One internet punk more, one internet punk less...doesn't make difference.


Saying things like "the worst fanfic is better than MK9 story" and then almost immediately admitting that you think changes in MK9 were probably for the best, are kind of opposite things.

Don't say another Goddamn word. Up until now, I've been polite. If you say anything else - word one - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds its destination, I will topple the master of that dark place.

From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, and fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one. When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming - as though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As I slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated.

Then as tears of bubbling pitch stream down my face, my dark work will begin. I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth.

That's my favorite Penny Arcade strip.

They're hardly opposite. To clarify: I'm of the opinion that, in an era where reboots, getting back to basics, and shake-ups for the sake of shake-ups are considered all but necessary for long-running media franchises, that MK needed to do the same to remain viable in the face of an ever attention-deprived mainstream audience. In that sense, the changes made in MK9 were and are a good thing.

On the other hand, the execution of said changes was a botched disaster. Where a full-on, no nonsense reboot would have sufficed, NRS insisted on half measures. Change the series, but leave an out in case it doesn't work. Offer a reboot, but soak it in 90's nostalgia. Add to this that most of the major changes came via Raiden's ineptitude and Sindel's previously unknown kryptonian heritage, and moments that might have had impact on their own come off as ridiculous.

Maybe people should stop responding to Sumac all together

We can agree to disagree on this matter.


Maybe people can decide what they want to do on their own?


I am not. So I say you need a doctor and some antidepressants

Given its subject matter, that is seven kinds of hillarious to me coming from you.

I prefer The Thing That Wouldn't Die:


Has more of a ring to it, I think. :^)



Do you know what the definition of insanity is?

It's trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Y'know, like arguing with an insufferably smug, thick-headed fanatic who is clinically incapable of admitting when he's wrong. Seriously, in all of my years of posting here, not once have I seen you concede a point or change your opinion on anything.

I've dealt with people like that before. And you're one too many.


So the least I can do is get a laugh out of it at your expense.



That's pretty fucking rich, coming from the guy who casually hands out insults like candy.







The last bit in particular is my favorite, because I vividly remember entire threads where you immediately dismiss any attempts to analyze the story that don't line up with your existing perceptions as "fanboy ramblings" or "fanboy speculations". Fanboy this and fanboy that.

Seriously, you wear that word out so much that it's almost comical.


FANBOY!

FANBOY!

Sumac wants a cracker



RAWWWWWWWWWK


Forget what?


How you brought up Cyrax as counterpoint to Smoke?

How I said that Smoke was the only one of the three cyborgs to try to escape, because he is the only one that the game itself literally tells us about?

How I also said that Cyrax evidently didn't care about getting cyberized as much as Smoke did, or else the game would've made it a point to mention it, just like it did for Smoke?

How you went off the rails afterwards and stared claiming that because they left it vague, his motivation could've been anything?


Yeah, I wish I could forget that.



You're absolutely right, I should have known that comparing the abridged mash-up of the first three games to the entirety of the Original Timeline that spans 8 games is in any way fair or makes any kind of logical sense.

My mistake.


No, wait, that makes no fucking sense.

The timeframe limitation is absolutely necessary if we want to objectively compare, say, Sub-Zero’s different portrayals and have an actual discussion about the merits of each that wouldn’t just begin and end with "they erased all of his character development post MK4 and gave us fucking nothing in return".

If anything, this gives validity to your side of the argument.

You should be in favor of this.

But you’re not.

I don’t understand.


But there I go again, expecting you to be coherent.




I'm afraid you have it all backwards.

When you whip out outrageous statements like "character and personality are distinct and separate", the burden of proof lies on YOU to convince others that you're not talking out of your ass.




Unless you can provide a context where erasing a character’s individuality and trivializing whatever it is that made him unique could possibly be a good thing, there’s really nothing to address.



For the sake of an argument, even if I concede that they try to make him go through the same motions, the way they go about it the second time around is hella sloppier and nowhere near as effective as before. I explained why in detail. They are minor details, to be sure, but with Smoke, that’s all that we have, so even small changes to those minor details make all the difference in how the character is perceived.

It’s like driving a Mercedes vs driving a Prius. Ultimately, you’ll still get to your destination, but how you get there makes all the difference.



Was there now? OK, let’s play this game your way.


She didn’t receive any “extensive development” (your words, not mine) in the official comic books, because she wasn’t really featured in any of those (not to any appreciable extent, anyway).

I can't even be generous and count the characterization from the movie, like I can with Raiden or Johnny, because she wasn't in that either.


So what's left?


The only effective advantage that Mileena has over Smoke is the fact that she starred in MK2, which gives you a couple more screens worth of bios and endings to pour over and analyze.

And since you just spent the last few pages trying to prove that neither of these is admissible when trying to establish Smoke’s personality and character, then by extension, they shouldn’t be admissible in Mileena’s case either.


So unless you want to completely undermine your entire argument (see above) and bring her characterization from MK4 and onwards into this, I’m not entirely sure where you're getting all this rich character development from.



On the contrary, I'm very easy to please.

Just write a good story.

That would please me very much.


The thing is, MK9 effectively erased the previous continuity and rebooted the entire franchise. To draw an analogy, if you're actually willing to bulldoze the old house, you better make damn sure that whatever you're building on top of the old foundation is at least as sturdy as the original. Whether MK9 has managed to fill the shoes left by the OT is very much debatable.

In contrast, it looks like MKX is moving the story forward quite a bit. There are no more shoes to fill, so whatever direction it goes in, I'm willing to give it a lot more leeway. More than that, I actually have really high hopes for it. I guess we'll see if it lives up to them.



Fucking really..?


My favorite game in the franchise is MKDA.

To refresh your memory, that would be the very same MKDA that threw caution to the wind, broke new ground for the series in pretty much every way imaginable, introduced the most new characters out of any previous entry and is also commonly regarded as the beginning of the wildly controversial dark age of MK.


But please, do explain to me how much of a nostalgiafag I REALLY am.

Тебе из погреба виднее, чо.




big words is hard :(

thinking is hard :(


I have trouble imagining the antediluvian rock formation you had to live under in order to miss the non-stop onslaught of shitstorms about the story of MK9 around the time of its release. At the epicenter of it all, of course, were the SZfags raging about Cyber-Zero, but Smoke fans were right there next to them.

But fine, whether you're being deliberately obtuse or just blissfully oblivious,look no further than this.

These just so happen to be some of the most well-spoken and knowledgeable people in this entire community.


Doesn’t sound like any of them are exactly happy with the treatment Smoke received in MK9, does it..?


Of course, they also just happen to be the very same Smoke fans who don't bother talking to you anymore (probably because they recognize that nothing they could possibly say would make you budge even an inch), so I guess I could see why you’d mistake the awkward silence that your posts are usually met with for agreement.




I know you’re just trolling at this point, but comparing anybody besides Sub-Zero to the poster boy of the entire franchise in terms of popularity is a special kind of disingenuous, even for you.

Also




Now, this was such outrageous bullshit that I actually began to wonder if there was tangible statistical data that could blow it wide open. Turns out, there was:

Mortal Kombat 9 stats - Most popular characters, teams and more!




[ ] not rekt
[X] REKT



If you weren't so casually dismissive of any instances where character development was implied (y'know,like in any other form of fiction that there is) instead of explicitly spelled out, you might be surprised to find out that, in reality, there were a lot of these opportunities that you weren't even aware of.


That aside, though, are you seriously saying that eight (8) story-driven entries in the franchise + 3 official comic books and a semi-canon movie is "not much opportunity"? That's a lot more than most other fighting games have gotten, that's for damn sure.

Fucking Shaolin Monks was a perfect opportunity to retell the events of MK2 the way they deserve to be told. We all know how that turned out, don't we?


There were plenty of opportunities.

Whether the writers took advantage of them is another matter entirely.



Where do I even begin..?



So according to you, the REAL reason why the story in MK9 was bad because the WB executives FORCED the team to make it bad.


Feel free to laugh at your leisure, everyone.



I assume that you're referring to instances where character design and gameplay have to be created with the limitations of the current hardware in mind.

So, when they had to abandon the idea of putting a trenchcoat on Kabal because the digitizing technology at the time had no way of making it look good, or when Shang couldn't morph in the 3D games because it would require loading all of the other character models into RAM to keep them immediately accessible, or when they made Motaro into a minotaur because keeping him four-legged in a 3D environment would turn animation and hitbox calculation into an absolute nightmare - those would all be the examples of technology indirectly affecting the story, right?


The thing is, none of this is applicable to MK9.

They even found a way to incorporate Shang's morphing ability.

Whatever limitations the Unreal 3 engine might have, none of them have anything to do with the fact that the characters do and say stupid things.


So, again, it all comes back to the writing, which was my point all along.



What are you even talking about?

MK9’s roster included everyone who needed to be there and more (except maybe Khameleon and a playable Motaro, but whatever).

This was never the issue in MK9.



They've done it before.

They’ve written things that treated the existing lore with respect and expanded upon it in creative ways instead of dumbing it down, and in doing so, they've set the bar for themselves.

There is no reason not to try to reach that bar again. No reason at all.


Fact is, story is an unquestionably important aspect of MK. This shouldn’t even be up for a debate at this point.

So if it is important, it logically follows there is no conceivable reason to half-ass it, just like there is no conceivable reason to half-ass the animation or the balance or any other key aspect of the game.

But UNLIKE all these other things, the initial script doesn’t require a team of artists and programmers working around the clock for weeks to implement it into the game. All it takes is the writers getting together for a few brainstorming sessions and going through several rounds of back-and-forth drafts and rewrites.

It's probably the least resource-intensive and budget-intensive part of the entire development process.

There is literally NO FUCKING REASON to not put effort into writing.

There is no downside to it. I can't stress this enough. It fucking baffles me that I have to justify this.


You seem to be pushing this fantastic idea that if the writers get too carried away, then MK will end up too dramatic, over-written and LOLDEEP (I've yet to be convinced that it would turn out to be a bad thing, but that’s another conversation entirely).

This entire notion is a fucking Wickerman-sized strawman, because let's seriously face it, MK of all things is not in any danger of that ever happening. The writers’ inability to balance drama and goofy action movie shit was never the issue, and unless NRS decides to drastically change up its entire creative staff and hire a bunch of writers from Bioware or something, it will NEVER BE an issue.


But pointless deaths followed by equally pointless resurrections?

Bringing back the same characters over and over instead of developing the dozens of B- and C-listers who were then given nothing to do after their initial debut?

Just making bafflingly bad decisions that make no sense from a character development standpoint, like making Kabal evil again for no reason?


THOSE were the issues.



Have you considered that MK is full of great characters, and that regardless of whether they're archetypes or not, they deserve to be done justice? Because “justice” is certainly not what a lot of them got in MK9.


Failing that, have you considered that maybe your standards are just too low?



So by your own admission, Tobias managed to achieve "extensive development" in just three short comic books, but you're saying that this new guy will be unable to do even better than that with an entire year-long continuous run of comics and the luxury of having 20+ years of lore at his disposal?


Sure, whatever.

Makes just about as much sense as everything else that's coming out of your mouth.



>I mumbled something about this thing I don't like in some post years ago maybe someone read it but probably not whatever I'll make sure to never repeat myself ever again or else god forbid I might come off as negative we can't have that


Truly, the attitude that moves mountains.

And by "moves mountains" I mean "allows publishers to get away with producing substandard garbage and ruining long-standing franchises".


When a AAA publisher produces a flawed product, you're not supposed to take their fucking side. Seriously, if I didn’t know you have a long-standing history in the MK community, I’d suspect you’re one of those shills-for-hire that the big publishers pay off to troll the forums, hype the game up and downplay any criticism. From a customer standpoint, this complacence you’re spreading is downright cancerous.

The one weapon you have against the multimillion dollar hype machine is being able to spread the word in the community and make yourself heard, yet you deliberately choose not to use it.


So rest assured, as long there are good little customers like you around, EA, Ubisoft and others that are driving this industry into the ground will be around for decades to come.

Because if no one speaks up, they'll keep doing the bare minimum that they need to meet the sales projections.

Because if there is no consistent criticism, they assume they’re doing everything correctly.

Because when the expectations are this low, the fans this passive, and the standards this lax, they have no reason to even try.




Don't be too hard on yourself, friend.


If I was an NRS developer following these boards, that wonderfully defeatist attitude of yours would certainly motivate me to do better.

I mean, I don’t know about you, but nothing would inspire and encourage me more than hearing things like "don't bother putting in any serious effort or thought into your writing” and “it's just a story for fighting game, it should never try to be anything more than that anyway".



Okay, I’m getting pretty tired of seeing this accusation get tossed around, so let’s clear this up once and for all.


I never said it's completely bad.
Ever.


Despite all the unnecessary lies, retcons and the innumerable missed opportunities, the premise had potential, the dialogue was way better than it had any right to be, and the occasional little moments of character development and good, smart writing were wonderful.

Jax smoking a cigar during a brief moment of downtime.

Ermac being the one responsible for Jax's metal arms, and Sonya having the presence of mind to immediately cauterize the bloody stumps with her ring blasts.

The whole Tundra thing.


How brilliant was that shit?



I wanted to like it.

I still want to like it.

If it was beyond salvation, like in Special Forces or Shaolin Monks, I'd just ignore it completely and pretend it’s not there, just like I do in those games.


The reason why MK9 is so frustrating is BECAUSE it had a promising premise and those glimmers of brilliance here and there. If it wasn’t for all of the bullshit and squandered potential, it could’ve been something truly great. Instead, it’s just alright. Grime’s assessment of MK9 earlier in the thread is probably one of the most accurate ones I’ve seen.


So now that’s out of the way.


The main point is, the story doesn't magically get better just because a few years have passed. It's not a fucking cask of Amontillado, it doesn't get better with age.

Hell, if anything, it gets worse, because after the initial hypesplosion has subsided, we've had all this time to calmly reassess it, pick it apart and identify every misstep it has made.


I never intentionally bring up MK9 with the express intent of bitching about it. But if you barge into a thread and declare that MK9's story was amazing, and any flaws it's perceived to have are fanboy gripes that can easily be dismissed, I'm not going to fucking lie to myself and others just so you'd feel safe and secure in the comfort of your delusion.




The fucking Bayformers were an enormous success, so by your demented logic, it must be a cinematic masterpiece. But I guess that's what happens when you conflate presentation and content.


For real, though, ask me what the best MK game in the franchise is.

Go ahead, ask me.

You might be surprised to hear the answer, because I’ll be the first one to tell you that it’s MK9.

As a grand sum of its gameplay, design, presentation, fanservice and overall polish, MK9 is unquestionably the pinnacle of the series. You’d have to be willfully ignorant to claim otherwise.


But does it have the best story, lore and character development in the series? Hell no, that would be MKDA.

Is it my own personal favorite? Nope, that would once again be MKDA, despite the fact that I freely admit that MK9 is an objectively better game overall.


What does ANY of this other stuff have to do with a discussion that deals *strictly* with story and character development?


...I don’t know, actually.

I guess it will forever be a mystery.




There was obviously a demand for it, or else they wouldn't have done it, no? That's what you kept saying before, right? Demand decides everything?

I feel fairly confident in saying that we are the ones who voiced that demand. And evidently, when you speak up, there is a chance you might actually be heard.


Who knew!


So forgive me if I decide to take partial credit for it.
Stay salty.



So what you're saying is that in your bizarroland:


-The developers don't read forums (even though it's known for a fact that they do)

-They never take fan opinion into consideration (even though I can't think of any other developer that would be as forthcoming and in-tune with what the fans want as NRS), and

-Fan feedback just plain does not exist (except in the cases when you bring it up to justify some stupid decision that the team made)


The world you live in is strange and uncomfortable, little man.

I better go now, my planet needs me.



My sincere apologies, I keep assuming that you're capable of processing visual imagery and using your imagination, associative thinking and common sense, like most human beings past the developmental age.


Rest assured, that's a mistake I won't be making again.



>all this salt

No matter how you look at it, the fact WB has finally decided to expand the universe with comic books is a wonderful thing.


Does the thought that we most likely had something to do with this decision bother you this much?


Jesus, dude, that’s just not healthy. The first issue is gonna be out is less than a month - instead of raging, get hype with the rest of us.



So let me get this straight.

Just a few posts ago, you brought up what MK was "meant to be" with the implication that the original creator's intent is to be treated as a guiding principle of sorts.

OK, I’m with you so far.


But when presented with an example of a darker, more grim incarnation of Batman that is arguably more true to the original vision of the character than any other live-action treatment (which, by your reasoning, would make it inherently better) your response is basically "p-people have different opinions about stuff". Because drama = bad or something.

...Huh.


It’s not that I necessarily disagree (my favorite Batman movie is still Batman Returns, fuck the haters), it’s the blatant inconsistency that makes my brain hurt.



...I'm honestly just stunned at this point.

I don't usually see such astonishing hypocrisy and complete lack of self-awareness outside of tumblr SJW cesspools.


If you’re this utterly blind to your own blatant double standard bullshit, there’s not much else to talk about here.




That's funny.
You're funny.


>posts wild, runaway ramblings about that MK was "meant to be", which might carry some authority if they were coming from the mouth of someone involved in the creation of MK, but no matter how hard I look through the credits, I don’t see your name in there

>comes up with nebulous fantasies about the inner workings of game development that have nothing to do with the practical reality of what’s actually happening


Hey pal, I'm sure it's all "obvious" in your head, but if you could stop trying to pass off your wild conjecture and nonsensical headcanon as fact, that'd be great.



Look around you.

Look at this thread.


You keep giving your pathetic little high-fives to ReptZ once in a while, but aside from an occasional newfag who doesn't know any better, he's pretty much the only one around here who agrees with whatever nonsense you spout.

I’d imagine there might have been more people on your side if you weren't acting like an arrogant, flippant jerk throughout every extended conversation you get involved in, but as it stands, a lot more people seem to agree with me and Razor.

And as you can clearly see here, the only thing you are succeeding at so far is completely alienating people and causing them to outright dismiss whatever you say as shitposting before they even finish reading it.


You've become a pariah, Sumac.

And you have no one to blame but yourself.



Y'know what, having typed all of this and looking back at all of it right now..?

yeah, I think I'm finally done with you too

будь здоров

Thank. God.

smh

Does he realize he's on a forum and not 4chan?