I doubt the mk4-Deception characters stand much of a chance of being in this game, even as DLC. You just know as soon as the DLC comes around the MK community will be screaming and whining for characters like Jade, Sindel, Noob, Nightwolf and whatever other MK1-3 characters that didn't make the initial cut.

Which is my point. I'm fine with Cyrax sitting out, even though I'd prefer him in, not a big deal. However, this idea that we should just group characters by games and then say "let's not include this group because they are a part of this group" is just silly. Just write the story you want to tell, include characters you think add to that story and/or the gameplay variety, and make sure to include some fan favorites.

Yet most fans almost never take that into consideration, is just about their favourites getting in, they couldn't give a crap about the how or why. It's always smart to show the fans their demands and suggestions are being considered but it should never be the main directing force on what a game should look or play like.

1) Character X is included in Game A
2) Game A sells really well and gets great reviews
3) Character X is considered for Game B

It's not really that hard to figure out.

Sheeva confirmed for MKX? Edit: MK9 had a 84metacritic on PS3, 86 on 360. Deadly Alliance was 81 on XBOX, & GC, 79 on PS2. Deception was 81 on XBOX, PS2 and 77 on GC

No, screw facts! the 3D era was terrible and almost everything about it was forgettable garbage none should expect to see ever again.

I mean you really only need to do 4 things:

1. Figure out what story you want to tell, and who you need to tell it, as well as any developer favorites.

2. Look at who is used least online, and if there is anyone that is a large margin away from the pack, consider not including them next time.

3. Look at the tournament scene, and see who are the favorites. Make an effort to have them return.

4. Run a poll immediately following the release of the game( could even be in the online menus in the game), with every MK character on it, and make it so you can choose 5. Then let that sit for a couple years and take it into account for the next game.

I don't think it's that simple. I believe those points are in conflict with one another. For example, letting go of a character with potential or relevance to the plot because of online unpopularity.

Gameplay and competitive tiers is something than can easily change between titles. A character's gamestyle can be fixed to become more appealing to the tournament scene.

This shouldn't take priority over artistic direction and overall character popularity, ever. The competitive community is still a minority in comparison to the casual crowd, answering their demands over fan majority is not a smart move.

To be frank I want to see and play with more new fresh blood in MKX along with the prominent and precious MK kharacters via unique variations

That's why I was suggesting you take all of those, and combine the results and see what characters overlap, those are your guaranteed, then take a few of each category and discuss from there.

For instance:

If nobody plays Kano online, and he makes maybe #29 of the poll for most wanted characters, and he's not really on the tournament scene as much as some others...and his story relevance isn't dire...you just don't include him.

Each category should have their own specific amount of influence as well. Developers and the story they want to tell should be #1, poll should be #2, online usage should be #3, then finally, tournament popular characters should be #4. Each should carry a specific amount of weight.

45% Developers/Story
30% Poll
15% Used online
10% Tournement popularity

It's a pretty solid system if you ask me... You may have some contradictions, but that's where the weight and importance of each should come into play, and then discussion amongst them on what direction to take from there.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia goggles, it has to do with original vision for the series (John Tobias) and the objective drop in quality after he left in terms of art direction and character design. Some characters were retconned, yes, it's been 20 years. And not all of the new characters were duds, but most of them were. Nostalgia goggles are probably more responsible for the younger folks having such a positive image of characters that never met the mark because they were the first ones they were exposed to. Most other people are ready for them to bite the dust. Kotal Kahn alone seems better than most of the new characters in MK4-MKA.

I can't help to feel some of the bias isn't justifiable, what if some of the 3D era characters got introduced earlier, pre MK4. What if Sonja, Kano, Jax, Kung Lao, Sheeva and Striker got introduced on the 3D era? the first exposure argument can work both ways.

Trying to get a character to be liked is not always instant. We had decades to get used to the "originals". Most of the new era had 0 chance from the beginning. They have had very little opportunities to develop.

And I respectfully disagree with the 3D era nostalgia goggles, as if it's that what prevents newer fans to realize how crappy those games were. I doubt even such a thing exists, tbh. It has been always been us classic fans' elitism that doesn't allow us to appreciate the post trilogy titles, that never really were as bad as a vocal minority makes it out to be. Were they drastically different? yes, but that doesn't imply a massive drop in quality. The trilogy era games weren't prefect either, they had their flops too. I still remember the massive backslash MK3 got for trying to fresh things up, the UMK3 console versions, and the rehashed trilogy titles. It always has been the same story, people want the same thing but different, which is an impossible.

Also, things were going to shit already when Tobias was still on board, this massive division between eras really encourages polarizing, biased views about the franchise that are simply untrue, imho.

It's all subjective. I really liked the 3D era, but that doesn't mean I'll force everyone to like it as well. In fact, I think there are many things from this era that are not forgettable at all. Characters like Havik, Bo' Rai Cho and Kenshi, some excellent backgrounds, Konquest mode (which expanded the lore and showed us all the characters' background, at least in MKDA), etc.

But then again, it's just my opinion...

Bingo!

Obviously there won't be enough space for all trilogy characters so you can bet your sweet tooshie that when it comes DLC time, all those who didn't make the cut will be on top of the list, delivering the final blow to anyone who's been praying for a Tanya/Fujin/Reiko revamp.

Yeah it's a wrap for Fujin. Hopefully I get takeda and erron black so I could have a good five man rotation.

I agree with you completely.

In my opinion, unless the low tier characters are absolutely essential in the story they want to tell (and if they are, that's completely fine), they should sit a game out until the developers can figure a way to make them a fierce component. They shouldn't just include the classics only because they are the classics. They should include them because they play well and they are heavily used. Bringing back classic characters nobody plays as isn't gonna do anybody any favors until you can fix those existing problems. After all, it's not the character itself or their looks that is the reason they aren't popular in usage.

This is what gets me about bias. I think there is bias on both sides of the fence, but there are some 3D era characters I really like. I'm not against that era, but there are, in my opinion, glaringly obvious missteps in terms of art direction and inspiration.

I'm not saying those games are the worst thing to ever happen. I eagerly anticipated all of those games and loved playing them. That said, almost none of the characters across MK4-MKA are interesting enough to be worth seeing again, IMO.

The early era isn't innocent either. The pallet swaps speak for themselves. Nightwolf, Stryker and Sheeva to this day are questionable, so many games later. But seriously - Jarek, Frost, Hsu Hao, Kira, Dairou, Taven. The list goes on. Reptile was pretty fucking awesome in his first playable appearance, so was Baraka, Kitana. People say people like those characters because they've had time with them, that is untrue. People like those characters because they were interesting and inspired and fresh. That is why they have remained largely unchanged since then, because you don't fix what isn't broken.

A character like Dairou would literally have to be stripped down to nothing and totally rebuilt because he's such shit. Why waste the time? Because there are a handful of people that think he could be cool if they slapped his name on something completely new? I'd much rather get a cast of characters that are new than trying to make past mistakes worthwhile.

What about the ones like fujin, kai, reiko, tanya, havik , and hotaru?

I just feel that certain characters from the 3D era were interesting enough storywise and are deserve another chance, such as Havik.

I love the original trilogy characters, but I am getting sick and tired of seeing the same old people over and over and over again. IMO, a few of the announced characters for this game should have spent at least one game out.

I like Kung Lao, but him and Kano are the two character reveals that made me roll my eyes. That being said, they do look awesome in this game, but I wish other people from MK4-Deception got another shot.

I don't count Armageddon as a second shot for people like Fujin, Hotaru, Reiko, etc.

You just listed my 3D era dream team. I'm so/so on Tanya but I know she has a lot of fans and I like the treacherous Edenian angle, and I'm extremely interested to see what Reiko would play like in 2D. Kai's handstand was sick and black White Lotus character is an interesting niche. Fujin is my most anticipated character from Mk4. Hotaru and Havik are my two favorites in Deception.

That's what annoys me about people tossing out the word "bias." I like a lot of the 3D era characters, but most of them, let's be honest, are really just, not good. They're blander than water flavored toast.

Amen. Agreed completely. They should've at least let the dead characters stay dead for a game, or at least given them cameos in the game as undead revenants, possible DLC or what have you, but I understand why they're here and at least they look fresh and seemingly play great. Especially considering fans will be in an uproar come DLC time for the Trilogy characters that didn't make the cut.

Yeah Kano definitely could have sat this one out for me lol He and Stryker are two of the few MK1-UMK3 characters I have never really liked and probably never will.

"Nostalgia goggles" has plenty to do with it. We have fourteen characters so far and aside from Ermac and Quan Chi, ALL of the returnees for MKX are from only the first two games. NRS has been hanging onto these guys for too damn long and just can't let go. I mean, you're telling me that people honestly wanted the likes of Kano and his tired old storyline in the new game that badly? What sealed this was bringing back Kitana and Kung Lao back from the dead, which was just nonsense. Like the previous poster said, they could've afforded to let them stay dead for one game, but no.

The knee-jerk reaction to the 3D guys by Vogel and the guys seemed like "Omigod, get rid of 'em IMMEDIATELY!" before dumping them like a bad habit when they weren't well-received by fans. And yet they held onto Stryker, undoubtedly THE most hated MK character of the digitized era, for additional installments instead of kicking him to the curb to be forgotten.

We're ten weeks away from release and we still haven't even seen anyone who made their debut in MK3 and onward yet for MKX, and their window is closing fast. I don't want to see Fujin and Tanya in the game but I feel bad for their supporters who've been chewing their nails to the bone wondering when they're finally going to be included.

So, yes, nostalgia is playing a BIG factor in NRS' shaping of the MKX roster.

I understand that Kano didn't die in MK9, but I haven't given a damn about him since Deadly Alliance.

And while I agree that a few of the characters post MK4 were very bland and uninteresting (Darrius, Dairou, and Kobra just to name a few), I feel that a few of them are a diamond in the rough, such as the aforementioned above.

I think that NRS would be missing out on a big opportunity to bring back some of these people. Despite this being a new timeline, they obviously still exist. I would hate to see the likes of characters with potential (Reiko, Fujin, Havik, Hotaru, etc.) be written off by a cameo and a death or something in the comic that just leads up to the story of this game.