Good point, well made.



Also I agree with this. MK isn't real life. It has it's own style. For sure, there's some happy medium between po faced realism and batshit insane, and I think MK has a good balance.

BTW sweet drawing Keith.

Battlesuit? Awesome.

YYes, actually, Resident Evil IS more serious than MK. Everything has its humour, but if you've played through 4 or 5, it's set in a totally realistic world (with unrealistic science capabilities and monsters, yes). Nobody has inherent powers (unless infected by aforementioned science). There aren't realms and magic. There is no fantasy aspect to it. When I sit and play MK it's a whole different ballgame to playing Resident Evil... particularly since RE has that much deeper a story/cutscenes and character development (until now, hopefully with this new MK)

Her DC costume is perfectly valid minus her tummy. We say Special Forces... b ut clearly the MK version of the SF is entirely removed from the real world example. They have crazy ass fighter jets and portals and energy beam weapons... Mountain top bases and mecha arms for Jax. And a woman on the front lines. This isn't "real" so we can't use any assumptions as to what she'd be wearing.
We've never seen her in a battlefield scenario, so why would she be in camo (to the people who want her in camo). Street camo (blue and black) maybe, but traditional army variety wouldn't be "logical"...

Of her DC look, if you covered up her tummy, it would be her in standard issue pants and a plain t shirt. Seems quite sensible to me. On top of that, if we want to think logically, she may well have a SF jacket or shirt that goes on top of that. Who's to say she hasn't removed those articles in the heat of Kombat?

Then of course we take into account that this isn't reality in the slightest, and I easily forgive her showing her tummy. This is fiction where individuality often comes as much from their trademark outfits as anything. She's always shown her tummy and I've never felt it taking away from her badass.
To be fair, i wouldn't particularly mind seeing her tummy covered, but I'm entirely comfortable with it shown. Mileena's boobs manage to defy gravity in her outfit, I can accept that Sonya likes her midriff

This isn't the army we're talking here. It's apparent that the MK Special Forces has leniency when it comes to uniform, like dozens of other fictional military groups. I just don't see the big :P

I absolutely love my discussions/conversations with Subby_7th. Even though we may disagree a lot about one subject, we always keep it cool.



Even with her hot-headed, impulsive behavior, and tough (and sometimes difficult) attitude she was accepted. She's that special.

Her SF Agent position shouldn't need to define her personality or attitude. It shouldn't be "the thing" that makes her special. It doesn't need to and I don't want that. That's why I love Sonya.

She is a SF soldier and a OIA Agent, but mostly, she is Sonya Blade.

However, I do agree that I wouldn't mind seeing her "more in control" in certain situations. It's not like I'm against your thoughts on seeing her "more like a real soldier". They can show us this in some cut-scenes, no?

But come to think of it, didn't she show that balance in MKvsDC anyways? I feel like there has always been balance with Sonya. It's not like she's always rushing into trouble without thinking and not listening to anyone else like it's being implied.

You make it sound like always misbehaves or like she always does whatever she wants without a plan and without paying attention. Look at her interactions with Kitana (on the "phone") and with Jax for example. I know she is impulsive but it's not as over-the-top as you make it sound. I feel like if that was the case we would actually get tons of more fans discussion this very subject. There's always been a balance. I feel that's been a key factor.



And I honestly feel like this is reading into things waaaaay too much. And one or 4 things you don't approve of aren't enough to disqualify her achievements.

What was she supposed to do in MKSM intro to make it more believable anyway? What did she do that was so different from the rest of the fighters in that part of the intro?

Does she really deserve to be spanked for being a bad girl and charging at Goro?

Sure, it would had been glorious to see the Team spend a whole extra minute just on Sonya analyzing the situation and probably sending a distress signal, or, I don't know, something more "professional" I guess.

But, that wasn't important. That wasn't the point of what they were delivering. This wasn't a 1 1/2 hour long movie. I'm sure that it didn't cross the directors mind "what would this character do if Goro showed up". The idea was to have this battle and show off Goro's mighty power. Nothing more. They delivered. He faced all the warriors who faced him. They all got bitch-slapped or simply escaped his attack. There was nothing special in it.

Had Sonya cowered and run away, then yes, you would hear some complaints. Had Kano done that, you would actually hear some acclaim. That's the kind of people they are.

I feel like pointing this out (charging at Goro) is just for the sake of finding any kind of tiny reason to prove a point. Your point of what you want and expect from Sonya is very good and strong enough without that kind of unfair example, imo (perhaps I just misunderstood your message, in which case I apologize).

This also reminds me of other comments I've read, such as:

* Why isn't she wearing anything warm when she confronts Taven on the Artik level?
* Why was she alone and why didn't she show up with her army or SF team?

I mention those because from what I've read, these 2 things instantly make her less professional.

Those are things that would had certainly been awesome to see, but, its not fair to "point a finger" as if it was Sonya's ultimate decision not to have a team around her or a new costume designed for her. We very well know that the Team was not using their time thinking too deeply about how much Sonya's nipples were going to freeze or how giving her a team would had made her seem more professional. Just because they didn't do that doesn't make her character any less believable.

I would agree with you if we would had seen a scene where Sonya actually tells her team (that is physically and visually present while she is confronting Taven) to go away so she could take care of him by herself.



No.

That's a huge exaggeration and a bad example.

I can agree and accept the fact that she doesn't seem to be believable and serious enough for you because of the way she is portrayed (overall). Fair opinion.

But I passionately disagree when you imply that she is practically that kind of character. Just because she doesn't suit your taste of what you expect for a SF soldier doesn't mean she is that kind of atrocity.

If that quote was even close to being true or had the slightness amount of significance (or relevance for that matter), believe me, I would be The N#1 on the line of many many complainers and haters for taking Sonya into such bad and horrible direction.

There's a reason why you don't have tons of users complaining about this subject. It's no where near that point. Not even close. Sure some people like The_truth, Pred, and you disagree, but from the looks of it most people (a majority) doesn't.



"Her gloves could be shorter" (!!!!!!!!)....that's something "criticizable"???

Buddy, I can totally take your opinion on her top, but, to criticize the gloves sounds like you just want to criticize, and period.

This is exactly why I'm so happy they are not taking Sonya into that kind of direction.

To sacrifice such awesome design for the sake of realism or for the sake of suiting the fashion of "a real soldier" is exactly why I'm happy she is not a copy/paste of your typical soldier or what you expect from her.

No, thank you. I like them the way they are. They add to her futuristic style. Her gloves are one of the coolest things of her entire design.

But, I am very curious, why in the world should they be shorter? How do they affect your view on her costume in a negative way? Are they seriously that unfitting and unrealistic to you? What's wrong with them?

Do they seem uncomfortable? Do they seem that fake? Do they seem unfitting for a SF Agent? I'm honestly curious to hear your thoughts (not to criticize, but, to understand better).



At last, something we can both agree with.

Anyway, I'm surprised because I wanted my response to be short (because we always disagree on this stuff) but I wrote another bible. Even though this was mostly about her costumes we ended up talking about her overall personality/attitude as well, so, I just feel that it's important to reiterate what I said before:

Her SF Agent position shouldn't need to define her personality or attitude. It shouldn't be "the thing" that makes her special. It doesn't need to and I don't want that. That's why I love Sonya..

She is a SF soldier and a OIA Agent, but mostly, she is Sonya Blade.

See, my point of view is that the casual should be the primary costume and the formal military dress should be the alt. That way there's still an army costume, but she'd never wear that in a kung fu fight, it's impractical, so it should be the secondary outfit, not the one that gets top billing.
Like the way Deadly Alliance did it.

I could get with that. I could even respect it if they went in with the intent of making her look like she's off duty, off base, and got mixed up in Mortal Kombat again while say...going to the grocery store or something when Mortal Kombat intrudes on her life in the game. They'd just need to mention that in the story somewhere.

Y'know, that's actually how I've imagined what happened to Stryker. Like he was just getting off of work or something and got mixed in all the chaos.

Problem with Sonya though, is that they always make her seem like she's always ready for battle....suggesting she's always on duty.

I mean, think about how they dressed her in the first MK movie. She was on duty chasing Kano around, and so when Mortal Kombat entered into her life, she was battle-ready. Same sort of perspective I share.

RED is soooo her color.

She looks better and more awesome, imo.

I've been dreaming they go back to her red color from MK1 and MK4. It seemed to be a bigger color for her in that game than her trademark green.

That is one beautiful fan art picture of her. You gracefully combined her best parts from MKvsDC into her MK4 design (loving the bangs!). Brilliant! It's really a beautiful picture. Good job Keith.

For me to make it perfect though, I would just add a few more novelties here and there so it feels more fresh. Its an awesome design, but, it's still almost exactly like she looks in MK4.

* Her top can definitely use more details to spice it up (black lines, straps, etc).
* Something new around her shoulders and arms to add freshness (a long clothing material that gives her full sleeves yet doesn't cover all the skin, think of Kira's pants in MKD).
* What about a more futuristic design in her pants since the top is already so much like her MK4 design? (again, think of Kira's pamnts in MKD).

Just my own ideas of what I'd do, of course, 'cause I'd love to see her looking as fresh as possible.

And I 100% agree with your quote. It's so good I have to quote it again with big bold letters:



Absolutely!



Agreed. This is pretty much the point.

Thanks Queve and MrHoppyX

It's a long, long way from being anywhere near finished but I'll be sure to submit it to the fan section when it's done.

KEITH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That drawing is F*CKING AWESOME!!!! And it's not even done yet!!! You should just send it to Boon and the guys and tell them to copy paste it on her!! HAHAH I WISH YOU were doing the game art concept!!!

It's the perfect balance for everything! Bangs, gloves, thongs and tough femeninity!! :)

YAY FOR IRELAND!!

WOW that's a beautiful drawing Keith and to think it's not even done yet!!! How else could you possible make it better lol

i drew a picture of what i think she shood wear although im younger so it wont be any near as good as the others i've seen its basicly her in a grey tank top with a dark green jacket simmilar to SM and black sorta short shorts and with a green headband i really like it and if you guys want me to put up a picture up just say so

3 words........
SEXY LEAN THICK

I already made a thread on how I think the SF should look. My opinion has not changed. Somebody already posted the pic of Jill from RE5 which is a great example to give Sonya a hot yet realistic/functional attire. I would also bring up Lt. Stokes from F.E.A.R. 2 as an example.







Of course here's the bottom line. They should do for Sonya what they did for her in the first MK movie. They actually had her wearing gear/clothing that fit with what she's supposed to be doing. Then they also had that gear altered for fighting.

Tactical look for one costume, whatever for the other one. Everybody is happy.

I know, right? Keith, you should definitely twitter (or "tweet"...?) this picture to the team. Give them some awesome Sonya ideas (in the form of MK4, MKvsDC, and the color red!).

Come on Keith! Send them your talent!!!



I'd love to see your picture. Please post it whenever you get the chance.



And what a fantastic thread that is:

Special Froces thread

Anyway, Lt. Strokes is exactly the way I would never want to see Sonya in MK. I'm not saying the outfit is bad or ugly, however, it is quite bulky, heavy, and it looks like it would be impossible to deliver an awesome acrobatic attack on that thing. It is bad for MK.

My opinion stands that this kind of costumes just don't work well in MK. However, I'd definitely take elements from this one and the Jill costume (which is much better but still not that impressive) and mixed them up to deliver a more unrealistic/futuristic approach for Sonya.

That bullet prove vest/armor-thing in those pictures just doesn't look right. :-/

I think I see what you're saying Queve. On a futuristic woman soldier, the designs are ALOT more sleek and are notably more revealing.

For some okay examples, you're looking at folks like:

1. Skarlet from GI Joe
2. Jessica Beil from Blade Trinity
3. UltraViolet
4. Aeon Flux.

Is that about right?

My question at that point though, is don't you think those sorts of designs conflict with MK's timeline? I mean, I know MK has some futuristic qualities in it (along with all the other unrealistic stuff). But, Sonya is pretty much a modern day....maybe a few years in the future kind of soldier.

She started out in MK1 as this really basic woman soldier model//dream-girl aerobics teacher, but with magic. Her character, and her designs have become more seriously toned, and more realistically based than the designs from MK1-3.

I agree with The_Truth too, if they could strike the balance similar to what the movie did, that'd be great. It made sense all the way through as far as her costumes went, based on what she was doing//what she is.

So, I feel curious to ask; What kind of soldier is Sonya to you? Try to paint me a picture of how you see her if you would please. I'm pretty interested.

queve i totally agree. totally wrong for boneya

I wonder if she will still say "NOOB AH DE NOOB AH DE NOOB AH DE BAH!!!" when she does her bicycle kick.

i wish they would bring back the screaming from MK2-MK3. loved that.

To samuhai: I don’t think I can agree that Resident Evil is necessarily more serious than MK, but I will somewhat agree that Resident Evil is more realistic than MK in the sense that it’s set in the real world aside from the stuff with zombies and other monsters.

However, the argument that “MK is fantasy” is still a lousy excuse to not want to have Sonya dress according to her role as a soldier in the U.S. Army.

You continue to argue that aside from her tummy that Sonya’s MK vs. DC costume is perfectly valid. Please explain. You mention some of the fantasy elements, but again, that’s not a good excuse to have Sonya dress the way she does. Why would she remove her jacket and shirt in the heat of combat, even in a fictional setting for a story?

To queve:



I find that hard to believe if she lacks a good sense of self-discipline. That’s why the Red Dragon could have really been a great opponent for her even though that bit fell flat thanks to what happened in MK: Deception.



That’s not what I meant. She's not completely awful, but she could still do better anyway. Show why she's special enough to be in the Special Forces division of the U.S. Army, not simply because she's "tough".



Charging at him like that was stupid, but yeah, it was a minor thing. From a story perspective, I would have liked to have seen the kind of stuff that was shown in the MK2 comic book.



That stuff is for a different kind of thread, but to briefly address those issues here, you have to admit that there's no real logic there. Even though this is in a fictional setting, there should be some sense of believability, but I digress....



It's very simple. Sonya fans like you are content with the lack of realism with her design and play the "MK is fantasy" card. We all know that MK is just a video game series with many fantasy elements, but I don't see why there can't be a good grounding in reality while still appealing to the fantasy elements. With Jax's MK vs. DC outfit and Stryker's MK: Armageddon outfits, at least those are steps in the right direction.



The length of the gloves is a minor thing, especially compared to the bigger issue with her top. Having short gloves would work better for her in terms of practicality. I don't remember the specifics, but it was something The_Truth brought up in another thread. But hey, what about her gloves from MK3-MKT? Those were short, and you don't have a problem with them, do you?



I really don't think it's such an "awesome" design, but to each his own. Sonya is a soldier, and that's part of her character. At least make her dress the part to look believable, not a mock outfit.



The reason why you feel that way is due to a misconception that the outfit is one that would negatively affect Sonya's speed and flexibility. Surely, there would be a sense of practicality in the design of such outfits, so why would they hamper speed and flexibility?

For that particular kind of outfit, not only would it give Sonya a much more believable look to her, it also shows a bit of her midsection without going crazy. It's not as if she'd be putting on 50 lbs. by wearing that.

But hey, The_Truth brought up something I wanted to bring up before. However, due to work, I've been busy, so he beat me to the punch. Why not have Sonya's formal uniform be derived from her look in the first MK movie? Wouldn't that be nice?

If you're going to incorporate fantasy elements for costumes for characters such as Sonya, make sure to have that realistic base for that good enough sense of believability. Showing much of her midsection, a thong, a belly-button, and apparently no bra don't help.

To RazorsEdge701: I have no issue with having the more casual outfit be Sonya's primary costume with the formal soldier uniform being her alternate.

I'd like an update of her MK3 or MKDC look. Those were her best.

go back to old skool that's right the ol' body suit and ponytail killer awesome and a lot better looking than the female characters we've seen so far

Because, as I've said before, the Special Forces clearly from what we have seen isn't "just the US military". It's a completely fictional secret agent-y version, entirely distinct from its real world counterpart... so any kind of comparison is mute (i.e we can't assume that she would have to wear camo in her uniform... because we don't know the specifics of everything the SF get up to)

She HAS a grounding in reality. Combat boots, Tight, durable pants that give her plenty of give for her acrobatics. A standard issue uniform hat (I prefer the MK4 hat to the DC beret personally), a uniform style undershirt. The only thing that seems to be missing is something covering her belly. That's ALL. Like I said, she easily could have shucked her jacket or shirt elsewhere, like she did in the MK movie, for whatever reason. It got caught, it got hot. There's any number of story reasons why she might not have her jacket or a more "formal" shirt, if you need to have one.
The shirt she wears in DC doesn't bother me in the slightest. It clearly looks like something she would wear in a hand to hand fight. It's similar to things I've seen real martial arts women wearing, so why wouldn't Sonya? Like I said, the SF seem to be a GI-Joe, independent and individualistic military unit. They have personal idiosyncracies and I just don't have a problem with a bit of midriff. It could be shorter, yes, but I'm really not fussed.
What exactly is the problem with her outfit? I get the midriff and I can understand the bangs... but what about her boots? Her pants? Her hat? Her little holstery things over her shoulders? What about the actual material of her shirt? If that shirt was just a plain T and covered her tummy would you have a problem with that? Like I said, it just looks like a standard issue undershirt with a bit of a fantasy detailing...

As for the other pictures in the thread, that chick from FEAR... Sonya doesn't need body armor. She doesn't need padding and she definitely doesn't need bulky. Not for the aesthetics of the game, and not for the practicality of the character. She's not in a gunfight, she's in a martial arts tournament against medieval style fighters. Not machine guns.

There IS realism to Sonya. There's as much realism to her as there is to any of the characters in these situations so I still fail to see the big.

And speaking of Resident Evil, what do you think of Sheva's default top in RE5? It's design seems fairly non-standard as well, but again it doesn't bother me. There comes a point in a game like MK or RE where you say "okay, our military chick isn't wearing high heels. SHe's not in a mini skirt. Let's give her something a little fun and sexy". And that's all I think her midriff is. A bit of sexy, and a bit of fun.
It's a tiny thing in the scheme of things.

MK is not a 100 percent accurate interpretation of anything. it depends greatly on individual character design, and I'm sorry, but I honestly would be bored of a Jill-style outfit for her in like... 10 plays. We see that sort of thing all the time and I just don't think it's necessary for the aesthetic and ideas of what these games are.
It's okay to have a bit of sexy, it's okay to have a bit of crazy, and it's okay to let your military characters have some individual style, without being identical drones. Realistically, Jax and Sonya should dress exactly the same. But they're in the MK Special Forces. They get quirks, they get something individual, and they're in situations farrrrr removed from a generic battlefield. I really don't think Sonya would care for "modesty" or military mores when battling invading hordes.
There's realism, and there's exaggeration, mixed together. That's my favourite kind of character design. Like I said earlier, their outfits aren't just a literal interpretation of what they wear... there's also a degree of character needed in their clothes. An exposed midriff and some lighthearted sexy doesn't negate that (I actually quite liked that in VS DC she wasn't wearing a g string, but had tan lines for it... suggests something about her off duty...)

As for her alternates, I loved the idea of her DA/A alternate, the proper military uniform (although I hated how it actually looked in the game... but that's more a graphics thing than a design thing... though the boots were hideous)... I would be morrrre than happy to have something like that as her alternate. Would be swish. So long as they do it right.

BTW, Sorry for the incoherency and poor narrative of this post :P I'm really bad at reading through original posts when I'm in the middle of typing so it all comes out a bit... blah

Just out of curiosity why are people so willing to accept Sonya's alternate from DA/A? That's a dress uniform (i.e. special occasions, social gatherings) and not even a good looking one at that. You could argue about Sonya's usual primary outfits but I don't think anybody can really argue for that one. Would a RE5-Jill like outfit be so uncalled for to be either a primary or alternate to a "traditional" Sonya look?

Again, I bring up the Sonya's appearance in the first MK movie as an example of not only having both but of making both work well.

I think perhaps a good middle ground to be what Leona Heidern has been wearing as of recently in the newer King of Fighters games. Small, tight black tank top (but not skin tight), small black gloves, functional black cargo pants with a bandoleer of 40mm grenades around the waist, and with combat boots. Granted Leona is part of a mercenary organization so she could honestly dress how she wants.

I'm going to work on throwing up an example picture/animation of Leona tonight but it's a bit tricky with these darn MWR computers over here. =/

See, with the DA/A alternate... I "accept" it for what it WANTED to be... not for how it actually turned out :P

As a diehard Sonya fan... I HATED her DA model. Not because the design in itself was bad (though I wasn't a fan of the puffy armed jacket)... I just thought the models in DA in general were awful. poorly proportioned, hideous faces, hideous hair in particular for Sonya...

The idea of her alternate I think is cool. Her military "formal" or dress uniform. I didn't like the boots, didn't like the jarring colour of the green beret, and wasn't a fan of the way the shirt sat on her boobs. It made 'em way too pointy and spherical (they were more efficiently hidden by her jacket in her primary).

In general, the idea of DA costumes were all pretty okay... but were rendered crappily... I like the idea of Kitana's for example, (i love the criss crossy one piece look she had from 3-DA) but in game and in her render it looked horrid (those boobs. shuddeR)

I just thought I'd point out that the U.S. Army Special Forces...they have a nickname some people have heard of them and know them by better.

"The Green Berets".

So...that's why it was green. And why Jax wearing a red one in the same damn game was fucking stupid.

Meh, it clashed with the outfit :P Green goes with little.