I think the whole dynamic of moves changes if there is a wall near by. Throws could envolve characters being grabbed and then bounced off the wall for some wierd suplexes. Heck even a few shoves into the wall. Do a few combos, and they could end differently with a few shots using the wall. Heck, maybe give someone a wall fatality.

The stage transitions via combos need to be adjuseted. At least the animations. Lava shrine always had the uppercut movement. With wall physics, it should be possible for a move to send someone into the wall, then they fall into the lava.

Also speaking of Raiden:
Self charge: raiden electricutes himself, so don't touch him. It kinda works like Subs body freeze move from MKDA. Most projectiles can also not work. Avoid it, and Raiden gets dizzy.
Fall into me: FATALITY! Raiden becomes pured charged voltage white light and basically pulls the person into him, electricuting him and then walking out, leaving a fried body behind.
Raiden: Electricution: FATALITY! Classic move
Raiden: Javilin: FATALITY! Raiden charges his staff and sends it flying through the opponent. It then lands on the opposite site, stick standing in ground, and then a bolt of lighting flies out of the sky charging the staff, but seperating the loser into pieces.

Bleed, the ripple effects would be nice, but lets take it up a notch:
Uneven terrain. It just seems like quick programming to have all stages just be circles or types of squares. A stage similiar to the first movie where Liu fights Shang would be very interesting to play on. It could easily be renamed to some Dragon King chamber of sorts.

also on the levels, why not give us actual duplicates of the pit or the acid pool? I mean a square just seems kinda lame. A thin rectangle would make the fight dynamic different on those stages.

They can't give us an old style bridge unless.

1) They add a railing to keep you from falling out too easily.

2) The bridge is pretty large so you have some room to move in if you get knocked to the side.

I hope they bring back a bridge still, at least like in DOA Ultimate. They have a bridge there, but then you can be knocked off it to the floor below and still fight. It's ok because it doesn't hinder you from having a good fight.



I think you know this already but just to be sure...

Uneven terrain would be cool but the ripple effect would still be something extra to the normal floor, It's a special move like a fireball or an earthquake you can see. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
(EDIT)

I'd like for the MK team to continue with the special effects in the stages, little details are great. For the next MK I'd like to see a stage with strong (Dynamic) lighting that works like in real life. Like if you are standing in front of a strong light, you will look dark. If the light is shining on you, you will be bright. I noticed this when playing Tekken 5. The lighting in that game is very realistic. Especially on the roof top stage in the day time. The sun light can actually bother your eyes.

Also I want to see a stage with a thick fog on the floor, like in a forest or in an ice cave or ice temple. Something like in this picture.



They could even have this same stage from the movie in the game. It would be like a DOAU stage.

They might have special cut scenes for special fighers between rounds like in the Final fight of the MK1 movie with Shang and Liu.

If Shang beats liu one of the rounds, he will run up the stairs while Liu stumbles around. Then He would yell, Liu Kang, I can see in to your soul. You will DIE! Liu would say, " You can see in to my soul, but you don't own it." Then Liu would run up after him like in the movie.

MK's lighting seems to be abit behind esp. compared to other fighters, SC2 and Tekken come to mind. Namco were doing MK:D's effects on SC on DC back in 98




They've almost done this with the Sarna Ruins in MK:DA, but it would be nice to see it as Bleed explained it

I'd love to have another MK game solely on Shang's island, there's enough stages there to make a completely new MK, and seeing this new idea in Sub's ice chamber would be nice to see, fighting Noob there would bring back memories

Bro, you live in New Jersey? Me too man, I was at the Busch campus arcade last Friday. I don't play at arcades though, the sticks are just hard to control for me. I couldn't pull off a freakin super in MvC2, hahaha. It's much easier on PS2.

There's always this debate over stick or pad for fighters and I think that it's stupid. I like using whatever is common for the situation so if I'm at the arcade I'll use the stick but if I'm playing on a console I'll use the pad. Some people, though, prefer one to the other and that's cool. Even Namco attested to that when they made the Tekken 5 machines with controller ports. I figure a player should feel comfortable while playing. It's not like one has an unfair advantage over the other unless it's something like assigning L1 as l.p.+m.p.+h.p in Capcom fighters.

It seems weird but it does make a difference. Sometimes when I'm playing people they will use the stick for a round and I kill them. Then they play round 2 with the pad and they kill me.

I noticed the difference my self when I tried the pad at the arcade in T5. I play better with the Joy stick for some reason.

Exactly. It all depends on the individual. Someone may be better with sticks so they build their own for use at home. But the idea that sticks are innately superior to pads or vice versa is absurd to me. The only time I'd say that one has an unfair advantage over the other is in cases like programmable buttons. On paper doing Zangief's 360s would seem easier on a stick but there are people who can do them better with a pad. That's no reason to say they're playing the game wrong because they don't use a stick. It just means they'd be at a disadvantage competitively because most of the time tourneys use the arcade version.

I posted this in another thread but I think it fits here also.


My dream fighting game.

I prefer game play over anything else.

Tekken 5 and VF4E are my favorite games. I like T5 much better though, the fighters moves are cooler IMO. They have more flash / style. The characters themselves are cooler for the most part. And I like little details about T5 more like the juggle system, the simple throw escape commands.

I like my game to have a deep fight engine but not be overly hard to play.
Like I didn't like just frames in Tekken 4. I could do them but it just seemed like an unnecessary obstacle. The special timing in T5 is better imo. It still takes timing but it's not hard to time. I hate to mess up my attacks.


My dream fighting game would be like this.
Game play = on par with T5 SC2 or VF4. Deep with med difficulty for commands= T5 / SC2 and with a lot of stylish moves.

Special moves = like in Tao Feng and the MKD intro movie possibly unblockable like Devils laser in Tekken Tag. Depends on the move though. The fighters would have a lot of special moves and they would be over the top with eye candy. They would be used for many things like stun, launcher, knock down, regular hit, unblockable, super move........lots of uses. They would also be useful in 3D space with wide rage, tracking or different directional fireballs. Whatever to make it useful.

Story = Fantasy like in MK.

Kill moves = only specific characters have them like they can break your neck or rip your heart out. No funny or silly stuff. Also no fake looking fatalities with the opponent just standing there letting you cut them to pieces. I'd have them look like a reversal or a special attack during a fight.

It would be a super move.

Stages would be multi tired and realistic looking like in the DOA games, MKD and Tekken 4.

People complain about the uneven floors in T4 because it changes the effectiveness of some attacks, but I loved them.

There would be a lot of stage interaction like in Tao Feng.

The fighters would look fancy and old style with some new age stuff like a mix of VF4 and T5 and MKD.

The stages overal style would be like a mix of T5 and MKD. They could have different times of day and weather like in VF4. Different spectators could be there also.

The music would be deep, moody and intense like in MKD with some more up beat tracks like in Tekken 5.

The computer would use ghosts of real players so it would be smarter.

Online play

Arcade release

All characters would be as unique as possible from each other. They would even have slightly different animations for a basic jab.

A juggle system like a mix of VF4 and Tekken5. Depending on the attacks used. Wall bounce and wall stun combos. You can tec. block and tec. roll.

Wall system like Tekken 4. but without the bouncing when you smash the opponent against it at an angle. To help avoid infinites. I'd rather have a good long fight than die by an infinite juggle, even if it takes a lot of skill to pull off.

There is more but that's enough for now.

How about you guys?

One thing about stages. I freaking love the Tekken 5 stages. My friend who's a huge Tekken buff looked at me when we first went to play it and said, "Namco must play MK." Not all of them, but many look a lot like the design MK has employed since the beginning. I don't know the actual names but two of my favorites are that ruined ancient temple with the dominant red color and the fire stage where the screen has a wave effect like you're looking through the heat. Namco really stepped up with the design this time. Speaking of which, you know the background pic during the end credits and sound test mode of MK:D? The one with the calm waterfall and the old temple and crooked tree. I'd love that to be a real stage. It'd be awesome for a 2D fighter just as is. I like some mystery in my environments. Like where I can just stare into the background and ask myself, "What's out there?" For a perfect example of this play Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. It has the same effect in some areas.

You are talking bout Jinpachi's stage right.

That stage is a time release like all the other Time release characters.

I was wondering about MK7s budget. Of course only so much can be done with so much time and money, so I thought about this. Anyone willing to drop the FMV sequence (which costs a lot to make) to get better gameplay and graphics?

That's assuming of course that they'd use that extra time and money to polish the fighting engine... They'd probably use it to make another worthless ripped off mini-game based on an already established game or they'd add three hundred more koffins to the krypt to give us all even more pictures of themselves.

If they would drop the FMV to improve the game play then YES!!!


They don't need to do that though, they have a separate team to do the FMVs.

They have the people to do the game play stuff and the FMV's in separate teams from what I understand.

I'm pretty sure, but I think Ray could answer this one.

They don’t even need to make the FMV’s at midway. They could outsource it, have another company make the movie while they work on the game.

Money is money. What money isn't spent on the FMV, could be spent on brilliant programmers and research for a better engine. Heck, all they have to do is improve the graphics and then they can use in game vids.

Back to game play ideas........

I want to have the old style juggles back.

I wanna be able to do a juggle like with Scorpion in Hapkido.

Counter hit gut punch = long stun > Deep jump kick > Spear > 2,3,u+4 > 2, 2, 4~ jump kick, air teleport punch. Then run in for some oki = ( Hit the opponent when they are down like in Tekken 5.)


Any of the 3 hit dial combos are blockable on the 3rd hit. They have variations of high med, low, delays, mix ups.........Whatever. Maybe if you power up or if you connect with the first hit as a counter all 3 hits are guaranteed.

You know how there's always that one character who plays really differently than everyone else? What about a character who is sort of a necromancer. I got this idea from Onaga's ability to raise the dead. You've got the character on the screen floating a little off to the side sort of waving his fingers around playing an etherreal phantom piano. The creepy tune coming from this piano is controlling three zombies on screen. The first could be a marionette kind of like a creepy looking puppet. The second could be one of those pupil-less, pale skinned, Japanese female zombies with that spellbinding parchment paper attached to her head. The third can be a standard Resident Evil-esque zombie. Each has a very limited life bar. The player is actually controlling the zombie and when each is beaten, the next one takes its place. The thing is, the actual character playing the keyboard, the one that needs to be beaten in order to end the round, is defenseless during this mode of play. He needs to be protected. Once all three zombies are beaten, however, he then starts to fight like a normal character. The zombies don't come back once they're lost kind of like the breakers are now.

I also have to share this because it applies to me:
A blonde called her boyfriend and said, "Please come over here and help me. I have a killer jigsaw puzzle, and I can't figure out how to get it started." Her boyfriend asked, "What is it supposed to be when it's finished?" The blonde said, "According to the picture on the box, it's a tiger."
Her boyfriend decided to go over and help with the puzzle. She let him in and showed him where she had the puzzle spread on the table. He studied the pieces for a moment, then looked at the box, then turned to her and said, "First of all, no matter what we do, we're not going to be able to assemble these pieces into anything resembling a tiger." He took her hand and said, "Second, I want
you to relax. Let's have a nice cup of hot chocolate and then............" he sighed, "Let's put all these frosted flakes back in the box.

hahahaha.........

Thinking of making MK more original or different from other games while still keeping some MK tradition.

How about no long air juggles like the typical 3D fighter.

Have it be like in UMK3 or street fighter 3 where you can only get like a max of 2-3 attacks as a juggle and they have to be very fast and weak or just 1 strong hit.

Then they could replace the "air juggle" that every game has with a standing juggle. Like when you stun someone in DOA3 and you can do a string of attacks on them before they can block. Imagine if you didn't have the DOA reversals and you had to eat the hits while stunned.

That would replace the air juggle more or less.

Maybe the stun moves to initiate it would be like the regular pop up attacks in MK or Tekken, whatever....... Instead of the opponent flying in to the air, they would become dizzy like in real life or like the critical status in DOA3.

Different stun attacks could cause deferent stun degrees = light stun, med stun, critical stun, then there could be different collapse animations also.

The normal launcher attacks for tekken like Kazuya's f,d,df+2 would initiate the critical stun. So you could pull off a normal juggle combo but the opponent is standing dizzy taking the hits as if they were being juggled in the air.

There could also be some pop ups that can launch the opponent for some variation to the combos. like Yang's strong kick in STF3 3rd strike.

You could have MK or Tao Feng style combos be strings normally that can be blocked or side stepped in mid combo while blocking, but if you connect as a counter or while the opponent is stunned, the combo could become unbreakable.

like in DOA3 if you do a dial combo on the opponent while they are in critical status, they will take some of the hit's but eventually they will just fall down.

I'd make the fall down animation be pretty hard looking like they stumble back and fall down kind of hard. They might even do a tumble backwards depending on the last attack that hit them.

That would depend on the combo though. Some become unbreakable and more damaging ones would just have more attacks connect than normal.

A way to get ouf of the standing juggle could be with just frame blocks or with a just frame side step.

Either that or stumble control = the same as air control in SC2.
I like the just frame idea better though. The stumble control would make a lot of combos useless because they would miss too much. But then that's the point right?

Aside from these stun combos, you could also do UMK3 and MK4 style special move heavy juggles.

The jump kick would be easier to juggle from like in the old games, and the jump in punch would cause a short stun. Similar to the street fighter games but a little more of a stun. This way you can do jump in punch custom combos, similar to UMK3 and street fighter.

I think this could work and help to make MK different from the norm.

I'd like to link this with the ability to link special moves to combos.
Possible ways to do this are....
1) like in Street fighter, Killer instinct and MK4. This might be too free though, it could lead to broken game play.

Or

2) Have special moves be a normal part of a combo = only a specific special move can be done at a certain link in a combo string. The same as if the combo variation was...

punch, punch, high kick.

punch, punch, low kick

It could be

punch, punch, fireball

It could also work as special combo enders that do normal damage or super enders like in KI that do more damage and are harder to do. Could be just frames or a longer command.

This would make MK very flashy. Lots of eye candy, that tends to be what a lot of MK fans like anyway.

I think the combo variation idea is better.

The OKI game would be like in Tekken 5 mixed with some VF4. There would be special stomp attacks, then you can also use any med or low hitting regular attack.

The wall game would be a blend of VF4 and T4's wall systems.

I was thinking of something sort of similar yesterday, Bleed.

Chains = bad. Nobody wants to lose 30% of their bar just because they got jabbed. But perhaps the chains could be replaced with strings, and there could be stuns that lasted not until the opponent was hit, but for set time periods. In those time periods, all moves would be guaranteed, and if you were to start a string within that time, it would be unbreakable, thus making it a chain of sorts, until the stun period is over. Once the stun period is over, the combo would then return to being a breakable string.

Example: Jax hits Sub Zero with a big lumbering knee to the mid section as a CH, and Sub Zero goes into a stun similar to a gut collapse, which lasts about 2 seconds. Jax then initiates a string of 8 hits, and the first 6 hits connect, but the stun period is over on the 6th, so Sub Zero is able to use his dragon d+3 (for example) to poke his way out of it before eating the whole thing.

Or, Sub Zero hits Jax with a roundhouse to the midesection as a CH, which gives him a free second to dish out 2 hits of a 4 hit string, before Jax recovers and sidesteps the third hit.

You get the picture. That way, Boon can keep his "cheap shots", and we can have a game with more freedom.

Question is though, would this work?

Ah new blood here in this thread, welcome.

not to bad of an idea.

Although a valid way of escaping combos has been discussed before (not that it shouldn't stop). Combing the time limit and then the advanced counters would be a decent idea. Similar wall bounce mechanism also.

Also air juggles, any one played the recent Ninja Turtle games. If you get caught in an air juggle, after a period of time, you can perform a double jump to escape. While not all characters should be able to double jump, the escaping mechanism could be the same. Character's that could double jump, and have jumps similar to the height and quickness of the old arcades would fit their storylines.

So ex:
Raiden: We've seen him fly before
Sindel: Flying umm nuff said
Sub-Zero: uses a burst of ice, as an air freeze move, so when he double jumps, a burst of mist appears to propel him, but touching him will make you freeze, and then fall to the ground
Kenshi/Ermac: Mental telekenesis burst
Nitara: Wings man, wings.
Johnny Cage: I liked the idea about interesting characters and unique gameplay with the piano guy and the 3 zombies or something. So Johnny has the highest jump in the game! What! He can create shaddow Johnny's to give him boosts up, but a well timed hit to a shadow can knock Cage onto his stomach.
Scorpion: Either teleports to a higher area, or uses his spear like Spider-Man and moves up higher. Of course it should only work on levels where the spear can grab onto something.

I'd like to see some set up moves like a counter hit punch that stuns the opponent setting them up for a special attack that does the most damage during the opponent's stun animation.

Either that, or a special move that can only be done during the opponent's special stun or collapse animation. Like how you can only do stomp attack in VF4 if the opponent is on the floor or falling.

Click the pic. to enlarge.



There could also be little details like during a gut collapse or gut stun, the character could throw up a little.

I was at work today day dreaming and this popped in my head.

Using tekken5 as an example again....

Hopefully many of you have played it already so you know what I’m talking about.

Anyway, I was imagining custom combos that I wish I could do in the game.

For example If the game had Tao Feng's button lay out so you can fight with Right foot forward or Left foot forward the same way.

Jin Kazama has this new combo that goes. db+2, 2, 3 You can delay the kick for like 2 seconds.

There is only 1 way to do the combo = Hook to ribs, chop to face, soccer style kick.

So instead of being limited to that 1 string and mix-ups.
(Mix-up = don't finish the combo and do another attack to trick the opponent)

I'd like to do his new evasion move. = tap b+1 He ducks and goes in to a block stance, looks like his Lingering Soul power up but lower to the ground.

What that would do is let me switch the last attack for an evasion then I could do his parry from that stance.

I could follow that up with pretty much anything. Maybe his new launcher
f, d, df+1.

Parry = 2 while in the evasion stance. He blocks an attack then does a power punch that stuns the opponent for like 2 seconds.

You can see these moves at Tekken Official. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Custom Link would be used like this....

(Remember, this is using a Tao Feng style button lay out so the same attack can be done while you have your RFF or your LFF, like in VF4, MKD, DOA....)

So, If you have your R. foot forward you will use one arm like your right arm, if you have your L. foot forward you will switch and use your left arm for the same move. = like in MKD, VF4, DOA, Tao Feng.......

db+2, 2,..., b+1, 2 (Must land the parry) , follow up with f, d, df+1, juggle with b, f+2, 1,..., db+2, 2, custom link his f, d, df+2 power right round house punch.


How would the custom combos be controlled so it doesn't become something cheap or abusable.

1) There could be a "Custom Link" limit like how you only have 3 breakers in MKD.

2) The CL limit could work with a combo meter similar to the street fighter super meter. Max 3 links.

3) A power up could initiate the CL or add a CL to what you already have = you can't have more than 3.

4) CL's are limited to attacks that would flow smoothly with your combo.

5) You can not repeat the same combo or attack more than 1 time while doing a CL. This would cut out some boring looking combos and unbreakable 8 jab strings.

6 ) You can not CL an attack if the next link in a combo has the same command.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ways to raise your CL meter.

1) By a power up ala Tekken or King of Fighters. Can be a taunt also.

2) Power ups linked to a combo. Like how Jin can power up after his 5 hit Kazama style combo. 1,3,2,1,4, d+1+2

3) Resting can fill the meter.

4) Combat can fill it like in Street fighter.

5) It might just fill automatically over time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This CL idea would replace the really long combos in MKD or 10 strings in Tekken.

If you have 1 CL level you can link 1 extra attack or 1 extra combo.

If you have 2 CL Levels you can link 2 attacks or combos.

If you have 3 CL levels you can link 3 attacks or combos.

(Note: You can delay a custom link but it depends on how long the delay time for the normal combo was. This changes with single attacks. With single attacks you can do a CL at any time during the recovery animation of the last attack. Your attacks will link smoothly, so if you link too fast you won't just cancel the move to another. Instead it will work like a buffer. Think buffering throws in VF4.)

This would make longer combos useful unlike the 10 strings in Tekken that are pretty much useless against someone that knows how to defend against them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example CL's with Jin in Tekken 5.

I'll mark a custom link with a //

b, f+2 // f, d, df+1

b, f+2, 1// f, d df+ 4, 3+4

b, f+2 // d+1

f, d, df+2 // f, d, df+1// 2, 1, 4~4

1, 3, 2, 1// b, f+2, 1// b+1, 4

1, 3, 2, 1 // b, f+2, 1, // b+1, 1// d+3+4

1, 2 // df+1 // f+2, 3 // b+1, 1 // 4~3

d+3 // f+2 // b+1, 1 // 4~3

Some moves cancel part of the start up animation to flow with a CL.

Like this db+2 // b+2, 3

The b+2 normally makes Jin take a step forward then do a right back fist. During a CL after the db+2, Jin already has his R. foot forward, so all he has to do is the back fist. This would eliminate the start up animation of the b+2 attack.


The basic idea is to be able to chain small combos and single attacks to make longer combos.

You can CL in mid combo, it doesn't have to be at the last attack.

And again, you can not CL an attack if the next link in a combo is the same command.

Example = If the normal combo is 1, 2, 3.
Your custom Link can't be 1, 2 // 3 because the normal combo will come out instead.

A way around that is if you tap Blk then 3. The block won't work until the recovery animation is done, so it could be used to open up more combo options. You can tap BLK after pressing 2 but before the 2 connects so when it's time for the next attack, all you have to press is 3. The combo would then work like this, 1, 2 // B, 3

For some attacks you would have to time the BLK a little late so you don’t end up canceling an attack like in VF4. If you press K then B real quick the guy will flinch and the kick won’t come out all the way.

Another bit of detail they could add to the juggles would be to change the bounce height depending on what part of the bounce animation the opponent is in.

Basically, a slight delay could change how the opponent bounces during a juggle.

If you hit an opponent at the top of the bounce from the last attack, they will bounce higher. If you hit them too soon, the bounce won't be as high.

It's like this. Let's say a bounce has 3 levels.

1= point of impact

2 = half way up on the bounce

3= Top of the bounce

You can calculate the bounce type by adding the levels.

You hit the opp. and they bounce, you hit them again when they are at level 2. The total bounce height caused by the 2 attacks would be 5.

You hit the opp. and they bounce, you delay the next attack a little and hit them again when they are at level 3 of the bounce. The total bounce height caused by the 2 attacks would be 6.

This would make the bounce high enough for certain attacks to connect when they normally wouldn't with a 5 level bounce.

Again Using the Custom Link combo I made up for T5 Jin.

f, d, df+1, b, f+2, 1,... db+2, 2 // f, d, df+2 = The last hit will miss because the db+2, 2 was too fast making the bounce just a little too low.

f, d df+1, b, f+2, 1,....db+2,...2 // f, d, df+2 = The last hit connects because the db+2, 2 was delayed making the opponent bounce high enough to allow for the f, d, df+2 punch to connect.



I guess you could call this idea Juggle skimming.

That juggle idea seems really neat. Most games have a very strict concept of juggle physics in the sense that it works the same all the time. I think it may be good to mix it up a bit. The most I've seen in that aspect is the weight properties from DOA when juggling Bass is very different from juggling Ayane. But not every attack at every given time would get the same response in a real situation. Granted, juggling doesn't work at all in real life but Tekken's style is far more unrealistic than DOA's.