Ah, I'm sorry man. I just found that out not too long ago and tried to delete that part of my post. I obviously don't have anything against you and I never did. I just remembered you posting a ton of Sektor stuff and back then it made me want to tear my hair out at times but to me, I always thought that you were a good MK fan and a good guy in general. So definitely no hard feelings from my end.

Besides, we've all got a little (or a lot) of fanboy or fangirl in us. So again, no harm no foul. From everything that I can gather, you make a lot of great posts, so you're cool with me as far as I'm concerned!!

Hahaha. awwww man. Im feeling a tear coming on. Its all good and at least i evolved into a real MKO contributer right? I appreciate the honesty and kindness.

now lets post some MKO!!! haha

I've given you a TON of facts, you just refuse to see them. I've given you sales figures, I've given you awards that 3D MK games have won, I've given you review scores. You refused to acknowledge any of that stuff, except when it suited your purposes.

Way to go though on the "no, you are" argument. I've been telling you about your slanted view points, your twisting of facts for two or three days now and then you have to come back at me with it.

Much like your trust in what you think pro gamers like, you've once more illustrated the fact that you're a follower. I'm a bit flattered that you're following me on that one, but I prefer to talk to people that have their own opinions, instead of stealing their ideas from other people and claiming them as their own.



Really? Because Soul Calibur was in your precious EVO tournament and Soul Calibur is a classic casual fighting game. It's got a ton of pick up and play ability but it's also deep. Soul Calibur games are always fun and are always reviewed well. Plus they sell well. So I guess casual fans know a thing or two after all.

Again, I don't grant your premise on 3rd Strike being better. It's better TO YOU. Again, another classic unsupported opinion by you. The pros know gameplay? So do reviewers. It's what they're paid to know. Gamespot gave your precious 3rd Strike a 7.4 while IGN gave MKvsDC a 7.5. Does that mean MKvsDC is better?

I also like the leap you did there... You say pros as if you've talked to any, which you haven't. You say pros know gameplay, but the only thing you're basing this off of is a tournament geared toward 2D games and yes, I'll keep saying that because of the threads in their own damn message boards talking about how EVO ignores 3D fighting games and only one seems to squeak in each year.

Also, again, the message board is located at shoryuken.com, which is an homage to Street Fighter, a classic 2D fighting series. Again, it doesn't get much more biased in appearance than that.



You don't have to dumb down your product for casual people. I hate to burst your bubble but 2D street fighter games are not difficult. They're not deep. They're not beyond the understanding of average gamers. Now if you say casual fans like you're talking about my grandma, then yeah you might have to explain the finer points of performing a hadoken to her.

But casual gamers know how to play fighting games to an extent. I've already explained this with Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur, but you keep thinking what you want. Everything I say just goes in one ear and out the other with you.



Don't "DUUH" at me you troll. Sales figures don't always indicate quality, but they can be an indicator at times. You know why I care about MK's sales figures so much? Because if the games don't sell, then the series won't continue. That's just economics and you'd know that if you were older that 8 years old.

Street Fighter 3 didn't sell well and you know what? It nearly killed the Street Fighter brand. I've read and watched interviews with SF4's lead designer where he's talked about how much he had to BEG Capcom brass to allow him to bring Street Fighter out of what they basically called retirement.

So yeah, that's why I don't want MK to have crappy sales numbers and returning to the NICHE market of 2D fighting games will do that. Why can't you see the GRAVE YARD of 2D fighting games?? I've listed so many games that had 2D gameplay that no longer exist. You've listed Blazblue, Tatsunoko vs Capcom (wow, very very niche game) Street Fighter and Guilty Gear as the only surviving 2D fighters.

Let's see...

Kasumi Ninja
Art of Fighting
Samurai Shodown
Fighters History
Fighters Destiny
Way of the Warrior
King of Fighters
Eternal Champions
Primal Rage
Weaponlord
Bloodstorm
Capcom Vs games
Darkstalkers
Killer Instinct

The list goes on and on, but those are all DEAD 2D fighting games. When you have a few left standing and a ton of dead games, that means a genre is retracting, not expanding. 2D fighting games are a dying breed and while SF4 is popular, the other three titles I listed tha came out recently are not.

Again, popularity might not matter to you, but when it comes to MK, I want to see more sequels and Warner Brothers isn't going to keep churning out MK games if they don't sell.

So lets add that up again:

2D games that aren't street fighter don't sell + game series that dont' sell well die off = MK shouldn't be a 2D game because it'll kill the series.

Do you see what I did there? That's called a logical argument. You should try to form one if we ever talk again.



Yes, I have. Now... Have you ever played a game that you liked but critics thought was bad? I really liked Street Fighter EX3. Reviewers did not. I've also played games that I thought stunk that reviewers loved. Blazblue immediately comes to mind.

Again, see where I'm going with this? I don't like what you like. I've tried to ram that idea in to your brain for about 12 posts now but you just don't get it. I liked 2D fightin games back in the 90's. Now? They're okay, but most of them don't hold my attention all that much.

Even your beloved Street Fighter 4. I owned it for a month, played it with a few friends who got bored of it quickly because it's basically the same old 2D Street Fighter from 15 years ago, but with a pretty coat of paint on it.

I like the games that I like and no amount of your interpretations of what pro gamers like or your ability to speak for other people without having ever spoken TO them is going to change that.



Okay, so now pros love 3D games? I thought you said before that pros like 2D games? Now you're just conceeding that point altogether? Fine. Umm... Thanks?

I don't know how many times I can say this... YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE ME TO LIKE SOMETHING BASED ON YOUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU THINK PRO GAMERS WOULD SAY IN RESPONSE TO ANYTHING.

Was that clear enough? You've never talked to a pro gamer, right? You've never interviewed one or taken a survey of pro gamers. You have no sample size, nothing approaching any number that could give you a general concensus of what all pro gamers think, yet you keep using these asinine statements like "pros love this" or "pros will tell you" that.

You're not a pro gamer, you don't know any pro gamers and even if you did, even if you posted a survey of 1,000 pro gamers on here, where you asked them questions about Mortal Kombat... Again, read my lips:

I DON'T CARE WHAT PRO GAMERS LIKE BECAUSE I'M NOT A PRO GAMER. Why the hell you can't get that through your pea sized brain is beyond me. I base my view of a game on my interest from previews, review scores, awards a game might get, sales figures, word of mouth (from my friends, not 2D loving pro gamers) etc.

I've been gathering my own consensus on games my entire life and I've rarely steered myself in the wrong direction. So I'll keep going with my own freaking gut on what I like if you don't mind.



Their freakin message board is called shoryuken.com!! How much more biased does it get!? They like 2D street fighter and yes, to them, 3D street fighter sucks because it's not 2D street fighter. Of course they're going to hate something that's not what they want. Just like you hat 3D MK for the mere fact that it's not 2D MK.

It's not because they're bad games, it's because they're used to something and then Capcom tried to change it and the diehard head up their ass crowd that can't change or refuses to change didn't like it.

I liked the EX games and so did reviewers, just because a few people that you've never talked to didn't like it, who the hell cares? Oh, and yet again, you use the term "pros" like you know any or like you've done extentensive research on what pros like and don't like. You haven't, so for the hundreth time, stop trying to sell your opinion as fact by backing it up with lies and half truths.



Yes, you not being a pro MEANS that you don't know what pros like. You don't talk to them. You don't interact with them. You've never done a survey of what pros like and don't like.

For the thousandth time, I DON'T CARE WHAT PROS LIKE, YOU FOLLOWER! Get your own freakin opinon and stop with this whole "well other people say that..." crap. If this was just you saying that you prefer something, we'd have no problem. But you keep trying to throw pro gamers in here like their opinon on anything means a damn and they don't.

Even if we threw out pro gamers, casual gamers, review scores, sales figures and awards... You know what we'd be left with? Just you and me and our own opinions. You like 2D and want MK to go back to that stuff from the 90's that's all but died out because games that don't sell don't continue to get made.

I like 3D games becuse of the advances in the genre which are much more complex and enjoyable FOR ME. I like counters, I like unique fighting styles, grappling, parrys, simple combos, and everything that makes a good 3D fighter good.

You don't think that MK has in the past or can in the future mix 3D style fighting with it's previous 2D ideas of special moves etc. I think they've done a good job in the past and think they'll be even better in the future.

That's it. That's all I've got. My opinion, just like all you have is your opinion. We don't agree.


Ha ha, you knew I couldn't resist. I've been trying to but you keep pulling me back in and I keep taking the bait. It's no problem. I don't hate you or anything for having a different opinion. I just don't like the way you support your arguments, but whatever, no big deal.

Personally, I think that I came at you with a good level of logic. I tried to point out examples of what was important to me in terms of my opinion of a game. You did the same.

I think where we got our wires crossed is in the fact that I don't care what pro gamers think (and also I just can't grant the idea that you speak for pro gamers because you've never done a survey of them) and while you said you didn't care about awards, review scores and sales, you then went and tried to come back at me with review scores, only to show that SF 3rd Strike got a lower score on Gamespot than what IGN gave MKvsDC. Ouch.

To me, that's hypocricy. You kept trying to negate my arguments, but then you'd try to steal my arguments and use them for your own. Like saying that my views are slanted, when I had been saying that exact same thing about you and your views.

But I agree, this is pointless. We can keep going around in circles. I'll try to be rational and you'll ignore me and restate your opinions, supported by whatever bullshit about pro gamers or whatever other stuff I don't care about and then I'll get angry and post back to you and try to come at you with stuff that I care about as far as review scores and sales and you'll say that you don't care about that stuff and we'll both be logical, we'll both be right to ourselves and wrong to the other guy.

So yeah, I'll agree to walk away from this if you can too. I don't like what you like. I got bored of SF4 after a month. I didn't like Blazblue. I feel like I grew out of 2D fighting games and I like my fighters to have more complexity and be less twitchy. But that's just me, that doesn't have to be you.

You like the games that you like and you want MK to have more speed and utilize it's 2D tradition back in a 2D world and stop trying to shoehorn it's old gameplay in to a 3D world. Just know that while I think that you're entitled to this opinion, I don't share it, and that should be okay with you.

To me, my way is to what's still relatively popular in a genre that's trying to make a comeback while yours is, again, to me, a ticket straight to the scrap pile with all of the other dead 2D fighters. I guess it doesn't matter really. MK will be 3D most likely and that's pretty much that.

End of story, end of argument? I hope?

@sadistic freak. lol why does mortal kombat 9 need a homesexual fighter???

are you actually serious or are you just playing. lol

and if you like "weird" fighters according to americans you should try guilty gear. you might never see anything like that in an american game.

Street Fighter: 3rd strike had one, his name is HUGO, i think he was a post op transexual. im dead serious, look it up.

some more ideas for my perfect mk:

details on in game finisher-you would have one chance to evade it, when an opponent first activates it. by filling up a bar by rapidly push buttons(test your might) before the other fighter fills his up. if you fail you are finished. and the final blow is in slow motion, showing you scream as you die.

reversal/ throws/combos-like tk6

details on uppercuts-you can charge up uppercuts by crouching down. the longer you crouch the stronger your uppercut is when released.

fighters have the best old costume from mk1-mk4.

fighters have intros before fight/camera gives diff views of stages-like sc

smooth fluid animation like sf3 and tk6

and bring back improved and more fluid diff block animations in mkda. you would hit a blocking opponent and his block animation changes, similar to martial arts movie fighters.

character specific/raiden- raiden starts out with little electric activity traveling around his body. the more or faster(combos,run) he moves the more electricity surrounds him.

@baraka407 i did not notice your perfect game post before(due to arguments) but i liked it alot, even though you had 3d gameplay.

dont you think 8-10 specials move are too many for one fighter???

and why did you pick shang to be the choosen one, how did he become that??

I dunno. I found it hillarious at the time, especially when MKA came out with the concept art and gameplay vids for Sektor. You completely flipped out lol

Man you dont know the least. hahaha

Before MKD came out and we had seen the shadowed E3 Select screen. The shadows out figure which was Smoke and the Seperate space being a shadow for noob. They were once seperate before being a tag character.

Hhaha That sent everybody on a rage. Ninjas and cyborgs all look the same with shadowed faces. Sektor and smoke fans were at eachother, in otherwords, it was me vs about 25 people. hahaha

There were just as many people going at it about Rain and Noob, or even human smoke.

Good times. I cant wait for MK9 at E3 simply for that reason. I hope we get that MKO madness that I feel coming on. If we get a select screen, even if boon blacked out all chars accept scorpion and subzero...

It would be a riot.

A homosexual character is nice because that character would be uniquue and other players like me would like to play as him. If there was a homo character he should be like a gay version of Johnny Cage or Taven. Someone completely sexy. Also, a transexual character would be nice too becuase it is also unique and Shion from KOF XI is a guy from what I read. He's my favorite character in that game. He's like Jade. In MK, a transexual character should look like Kitana, Jade, or Li Mei with a better sex appeal and with that one male body part at the groin while the rest is a female body. That would be AWESOME!!!!!!!

Besides those ideas, I'd want it to also be as gory as Bloodrayne 2, Thrill Kill, and even God of War 3 or even gorier than that..

Thanks for the feedback man!

As for the number of special moves, well... I've always liked special moves and I like them even more then they fit the character. By that, I just mean Sub Zero having several moves that are based around ice. His awesome counter move that he got in MKvsDC, his ice teleport that he had in MKvsDC, etc to go along with his simple freeze maneuver.

I just want to see stuff like that in greater volume. Ideas that are outside of their typical special moves. Like how Ermac in MKD had a move where he could float in the air, but then he had a few different ways to come back down to the ground. I mean that alone was about 4 special moves just in that one sort of sub section of special moves.

So when I say 8 to 10, it doesn't necessarily have to be 8 to 10 individual special moves. Maybe a few of them can spring from another special move. But to me, special moves can be a great signature to put on a character. Some might think that the more you have the more it cheapens them, but I think the opposite is true. If you have a character that has several special moves that revolve around their character and who they are, I think that it only enhances the character and makes them more fun to use a the same time.

Oh, and how did I pick Shang Tsung to be the chosen one? I just thought that it would be a great twist. Yes, he's from Outworld, but there could be a prophecy about a traveler from another realm saving Earth in it's moment of greatest need or something along those lines.

To me, it would just kind of flip the script. That's not to say that he'd become a good guy. No way, that's not his style. But with Liu Kang dead, maybe Kung Lao fails and then this prophecy comes to light and all of a sudden Earth is depending on someone that up until this point is completely evil.

It doesn't necessarily have to be him, but I'd definitely like to see a bad guy in that role and see how that character deals with it, how the good guys deal with it and what the end result from a story like that could be. To me, Shang Tsung was just obvious because he was the first big bad guy in the series and he's about as far away from looking or being like a "chosen one" should be.

Thanks again for the feedback man!

Shang Tsung was born on Earth and defected to Outworld.

AH!! I KNEW IT!! I knew that when I was typing that!! Shang Tsung lost to Kung Lao, then returned with Goro and took over the tournament when Goro killed Kung Lao! I knew it sounded weird when I was typing that Shang Tsung was from Outworld.

Thanks for the correction Razor!

a reboot with the original characters and make it 2d like sf4 and gory like god war 3 that would be a terrific mk experience

a reboot with all the original characters and make it 2d like sf4 and make it gory like god of war3 nuff said

I just played the gow3 demo. it's great and bloody. i think mk should have that dark reddish blood spilling out(maybe a lil lighter). and they definitely need to do the interactive fatalies like gow3, but make them hard to pull off. you have to button mash fast and hard to pull off one those guys heads. when you do it, you feel like you have accomplished something. that shit is EPIC VIOLENCE.

I actually think that's a fantastic idea. Rather than assuming that players will want to memorize and learn a bunch of random direction/button presses, have them do a series of interactive prompts where rotating the analog stick might turn someone around or snap a neck, mashing n a button might be used for pulling an arm out or ripping a head off, pressing both analog sticks away from one another might mean slicing a torso with two blades going outward etc.

To me, this type of fatality would be a thousand times better than the system MK has had for such a long time. Right now, fatalities are something of a novelty. You see it a few times and then it's virtually forgotten. Sure, there are some that stick with you (Quan Chi's leg rip fatality in particular was a joy to behold several times over back in MK4).

But with this type of system, where you're prompted, attempting to pull off a fatality would almost be fun in a way instead of a sort of frustrating challenge to cram several directional presses in before some invisible timer goes off.

Maybe they could even reward players with kurrency for pulling them off? Or maybe for granting an opponent mercy? Just throwing out ideas.

Yeah this is an idea that has floating around this forum for along time. i liked your ideas with the analog stick. i proposed an idea where you use the six axis motion control to do fatalities. think about some of the possibilities.

Well, that's all good, and sounds cool, but that sounds like something they tried to implement in MKA, which I was not a fan of. I might like it if they fixed the execution of it, but it just seemed generic and choppy to me.

One other thing that I think might be lacking in this is the individuality of fatalities that are specific to each character. For example, most of the time, you expect ice of some sort to be involved in at least one of Sub Zero's fatalities. If they could incorporate character-specific moves into a free-form fatality system like you are describing, then yes, that would be an excellent way to go.
One other thing, perhaps there should also be one or two "old style", "sit back and watch" type that is easier to pull off, for those that are casual players to enjoy.

yeah but we are talking about ORINGINAL interactive fatality for each fighter. at least thats what i mean. i hated the mka fatalities.


subzero head/spine rip would still be in the game, it just you would rapidlly press buttons or something like that to get it done.

kaf sucks, and kac sucks because those systems could never be deep enough for millions of players. everyone would have basically have the same fatality or character after a while.

little big planet did it though, idk if you can compare that to a fighting game though........

are you describing konquest mode or you want the whole game to be like this????

Similar to a hari kari, the loser should be able to input a button combination and try to run away from the opponet. this is for pure comedy like friendships and babatility.

also similar to the hari kari idea, the loser puts in a button combonation and the loser trys to fight for his life. this will take place in a pre set fighting sequence(qick time event). you will have two chances to input buttons. whoever inputs buttons at a preciser time will win in the quick time event. if one player wins and the the other player wins, you will have a third round. if each player wins and then its a draw you have to fight again in the game. this fighting sequence(it is a pre set animation, diff for each fighter) will only last about 15 seconds and if you ever played soul calibur 3, this idea is kinda similar to their ending movies.(especially Seong mina ending)

In the fatalities you could use the SIX AXIS MOTION controller. you could shake the opponent(shake controller) ,throw them( left to right wave motion) or pull off people heads(lift controller slowly, fake struggle like your picking up somthing heavy) using six axis motion controller.


they should have a HUMORALITY where you perform a fatality but with dark humor. it should be real funny. like someone posted before.ex: Kung lao could throw his hat then the foe dodges it and celebrates. then the hat comes back and chops his head off while he is celebrating. lol!!!!



NOW i have an idea for watching fatalitys. how about they have a FIRST PERSON VIEW where you see a first person view on how the fatality is being performed on an enemy. imagine watching from an upclose first person view perspective of mileena biting someone's neck or sub-zero riping off a head!!! what do you guys think???

Oh no no, that's not what I mean AT ALL. With that, it was a matter of pressing a direction and a button and you either ripped an arm off or turned the opponent around or whatever. No way.

I'm talking about visual prompts on the screen where as soon an opponent loses their last bit of life, something will pop up on the screen telling you what to do next and you have to do it quickly, You'll see an A button on screen getting pressed repeatedly, so it's telling you to mash on the A button, then the next prompt will come up and it'll show two analog sticks being moved in the up direction, so you press both analog sticks UP. Maybe you get some controller feedback there. Then it'll show X and B buttons getting mashed repeatedly. So you mash X and B at the same time, then it'll show the analog sticks getting moved in opposite directions so you move your analog sticks in the opposite directions.

Of course, there will be different motions like move analog stick in a 360 motion or or pressing back then forward on an anlog stick or using the bumpers or triggers or the dpad etc.

But say you take my example above. Mashing on A would be sub zero freezing the opponent, pressing up on the analog sticks would have him lift the opponent above his head, mashing X and B would be him trying to pull the ice block apart and then pressing the analog sticks in opposite directions would be him finally doing so.

Of course, there could be better fatalities than what I'm describing. But I was just using that example to illustrate how they'd work. It would be you controlling the fatality.

Oh yeah, and the BIG difference? They would be VERY character specific. No more back and B snaps the neck for every single character performing a fatality.

That's what I would like to see anyways.

@baraka407 we almost posted at the same time. lol

@icebaby so you want the game to play like mk4, mkd,and mkda?????

I also liked Mk vs. DC's gameplay...

@icebaby, ok.


now you said more than 15 fighters overpowers the roster...really??

the weapons should be included like in mk3 but i want it to have magical feeling. like just dont rip out swords from thin air. like maybe they could summon the sword(really fast) and show sparks and magic dust,.....idk. and if you played tk6 yoshi pulls out his sword and puts it back in, so it is possible to show the animation in combos too.

yeah i did not like the death traps either, they were alright at first though.

konquest can be its own game, basically mksm.....

yes a solid story would be good. but dont try to do so much because they lead to alot of plotholes. just my opinion.