Same with why Scorpion transformed into a penguin while Sheeva transformed into a scorpion.

Poor Scorpion, the only character that is truly a ninja, you certainly have gotten a heck of a lot of things taken from you and put into characters that don't make sense.

With Cyrax taking Ninjitsu, maybe they ran out of ideas to give character's specific stances?

Going through this thread, I'm not sure are we discussing all of the ninjas at once (which ones we want to see back) or are we going one by one (starting with Rain)?

... ... ...

Even though I don't count Tanya and the cyborgs as ninjas, for this thread I'm going to since the thread starter classified them as ninjas.

Ok, let's talk about the ninjas, color swappers, whatever you want to call them.


------

Scorpion and Sub-Zero are total givens like the thread starter said. Probably Kitana too.

K/Chameleon aren't going much further I'm afraid. C has the least potential of both of them, since there isn't much known about him and what we know is that he was just a watcher until he decided to fight just for the hell of it. K has failed to convince Reptile, and failed to defeat Kahn, so she also became a watcher.

Speaking of Reptile, he's just going to be someone's henchmen. He's a reptilian Baraka. However, unlike Baraka, Reptile seems to have a better reason. To restore his race. However, he kept failing, and he fucked up the perfect chance when Khameleon went up to him about the situation.

Let's see, let's talk about Noob. I think we will see Noob again. I think Sub still wants his brother either back or banished, and that will be a subplot for Sub-Zero.

Sektor has his Tekunin storyline, and I really want to see more of this, as well as Cyrax being part of OIA fighting against them.

I want to see Smoke separated from Noob and lost. I mean, like finding what he could do on his own. Should he go back to help Sub, or be on the good side, or should he embrace the evil that Noob introduced?

That leaves us with Jade, Mileena, Ermac, Frost, and Rain.

I feel Jade should lay low for a while. Stay in Edenia while the others are fighting.

Frost, eh, don't care much for her. I don't think she could go further, but if you could convince me, I might see a reason for her to stay. Same with Rain.

I don't want Mileena to go back to her kill/be better than Kitana story, but that's all I can see her doing. That and wearing less and less.

Lastly, Ermac. Oh, what would he do now? I don't know. I'm sorry, I really don't.

Sub-Zero and Kitana needs to venture away from being ninjas. Kitana has stopped being a ninja after MK2. She should have a brand new look (as I believe I stated this in my debate thread) and needs to act more of a leader-ish character than a ninja.

Sub-Zero, I wouldn't actually mind if they keep is Armageddon ending. This is the only character that I actually liked the ending in Armageddon (wow!) and would like to see him battle it out with the Elder Gods, since literally he had became very boring since Deadly Alliance.

Scorpion should be the only one out of the three mentioned here that needs to go back acting like a ninja.



If these two characters actually had a story along with them instead of being another palette swapped character, I would like for them to have something happen to them in a future game. But, since they're only fan-favorites just because they're color changing ninjas that have the same moves as all of the "ninja" characters combined, why bother have them in the series if they're nothing?



I wouldn't really compare Reptile to Baraka as Baraka just doesn't give a fuck what happens as long as he kills, kills, kills. Reptile is at least fighting for a reason, and majority of it is that he wants his homeland restored, but we all know that his homeland is destroyed and will never come to..



If the God story doesn't work out with Sub-Zero, I would give him a rivalry with his brother. This would be a fairly interesting battle to see.



Would have been interesting to see Sektor made a return before Armageddon (not including the game boy advance game, or MK4 Gold) and actually had a rivalry with his former teammate, Cyrax. The Tekunin certainly needs to be big in his story, if they're gonna scrap this, then what a disappointing turn for Sektor.



They ruined this character big time by partnering him up with Noob. He should be on his own, do what he thinks is right for him, because teaming up with someone by not being able to do something on their own isn't what I want Smoke to do. Smoke is a very popular character, he should be treated like a good character, not a poorly produced character with a very strange appearance.



As do I. Jade has done her part for right now, let's give someone else a chance to shine from Edenia. Perhaps a new character, but yet again, there's a lot coming from this realm. Either stay low and don't come for this latest game, of if you do, have something likable happen.



Frost is certainly a favorite of mine and I have an idea that might strike you.

If you go to my Deviantart portfolio, I created a sketch of my own MK roster would be like, there I included Frost (and Quan Chi, why I mention him you will find out soon.) I was going to do this as a side project when I have time to do so and create biographies per character. I was going to have Frost and Quan Chi be partnered. How?

Frost has no memory of what exactly happened to her. She was in her frozen tomb all throughout Armageddon, and since it passed, she awakens and finds herself in a place with no memory and must find out exactly who she is and what has happened. Quan Chi finds her and tells her everything, how she was a delirious individual who had a lust to kill Sub-Zero for his medallion that gave super strength in her kori powers. But since she was unable to contain the magic in her, she froze herself. When she managed to get out for the first time, she hunted Sub-Zero down becuase she thought he wanted her to die in the ice. Killing hundreds of people that looked like Sub-Zero, she finds herself trapped in ice once more and be placed in a tomb. Frost doesn't believe so and fights Quan Chi, to make a long story short, she kills Quan Chi and believes his story is a lie, but when Sub-Zero himself saw what she did, he told her that he was telling the truth, and forgave her from her past crimes after seeing Quan Chi's head in her hands.

*Takes a deep breath*

Convinced you or no?

With Rain, as I stated, he's a joke from the start. His story keeps changing like that, and as of right now I'm considering him as a Demi-God and the half son, (half-son right?) of Argus, since that's the latest story of him. Either stick to a freaking story about yourself, or take this character out of the roster for good. There's no point on keeping a character that makes no sense in a roster if he's meant for a joke.



I would like to see this character actually have a role in MK instead of being the character in skimpy clothing. Enough of this Baraka/Mileena crap, and I'm tired of the sibling rivalry (despite that Mileena is not blood related at all) Mileena needs a new enemy in the series, either someone new or someone recurring. I just think that she deserves a better role than the ones she has been receiving.



Ermac had his chance to be a great character, but his Deception appearance disappointed me a lot. I think he can be out of the picture for a while... (I don't remember if I said I wanted this character to stay or leave in the debate thread.)

My thoughts,

Reptile: Make his appearance like MK4,give him a good story,and he will be awesome.

Scorpion: Resurrect his shi ryu clan,that will go on war against sub-zero's lin kuei.

Smoke: Make him human once again (or a hybrid),but not a ninja,and no alliance with Noob,and give him a good story.

Sub-zero: His clan versus the resurrected shi ryu,and give him an updated version of his unmasked appearance in MK3 ,thus not a ninja.

Ermac :Composed of spirits,make him a tag team with Liu kang(like noob-smoke in MKD) who died and is also a spirit now.This is the only way for Liu Kang to be an interesting character once more.

Rain: Make him God of Water, but not ninja style.

Noob Saibot: Make him the right hand of MK9's Final boss and second in command,and his appearance will represent a dark ninja warrior like the other games.

Cyrax/Sektor: Same with what BlueDragonClan wrote.I don't know if Cyrax would be interesting as a human.

C/Khameleon: Don't know, couldn't care less anyway.lol.

Mileena/Jade/Kitana: Dont care.

Frost: A cool character.She only needs a great story,and a removal of her mask.

Ok, I don't feel like quoting a whole lot of quotes, and plus I'm not used to quoting on this site, but I'm going to try to answer everything I can.

To Icebaby:

On Reptile: I compared him to Baraka just because he has only been a henchman of somebody. I do admit that he has more story. But his cause isn't going anywhere if he keeps fucking it up.

On Frost: Hmmmm....you mean a Frost Redemption? I suppose so...and I guess it would be nice for someone unexpected to kill Quan Chi. OK, you convinced me.

On Ermac: The only thing that I could see Ermac doing is a subplot against one of his souls. One of his evil souls that was in the body escape, and Ermac must put that guy down. It's not that great, but something for him to do. Or have Shang go after him. Ermac is basically a soul bank for the sorcerer.

To Caleblood:

On Ermac: No offense, but god no, I hope that never happens. That's basically a good version clone of Noob-smoke. Plus Liu Kang should remain dead.

And, well basically that's it, I agree with the rest of what you both said.

Scorpion
Well he'll be back regardless and since he's technically the only "real" ninja, he should maintain that masked look. Particularly because he looks like a fucking retard when he's unmasked ALL the time. The flaming skull is supposed to be a curse...something, he's not happy about, and I imagine, something he'd rather keep hidden as much as possible. Not to mention, the flaming skull thing just reeks of desperate fanboy bait. "See how kewl Scorpion is because he has a flaming skull head just like Ghost Rider!"

Story-wise, I cannot emphasize enough, they need to leave his clan and family DEAD! Bringing them back would be taking three steps back for the character and he's already taken too many steps back as it is. Leave the clan & family dead and for the love of god, make him grow the fuck up. The revenge bit...it's done. Beyond done...it's gotten to the point where he's parodying himself constantly bitching about who spilled his milk this time.


Sub-Zero
I could go either way on whether Sub-Zero should remain masked or semi-ninja-esque. As leader of the Lin Kuei, I think he should adopt a more authorative look rather than the generic cowl/mask combo. I liked his Shredder look and I think they should definitely keep moving him a direction away from the standard MK "ninja" style.

Story-wise, I'd like to start to see some pay-off for all the build up he's gotten. I think it's time he officially graduated to main event level stories...taking on the "big bad" and whatnot. If he's to have a secondary feud/sub-plot going, I'd rather he goes against Sektor or Hotaru. NOT NOOB SAIBOT! Boring feud and a total waste of Sub-Zero's time. He has better things to do than try to save his brother.


Reptile
I appreciate how far they've taken Reptile from being just another "ninja" and I like that they connected it the story. Admittedly though, the iguana look may have been a little too over the top and the crying of ninja fans who would raher he remain a green clad human in a mask probably won't be ignored. I think his MK:SM semi-humanoid reptillian ninja look is a good compromise.

Having said that though, I think Reptile's done as far as the story goes. There's nothing left for him to do. The Zaterran race is dead and banging Khameleon or some random raptor girl he finds in Argus' Pyramid isn't going to solve that. Not to mention his constant crying about his dead people has gotten...much like Scorpion's crying about his family & clan...boring as shit and laughable.
I've no interest in seeing him become a henchman to someone else again. I don't want to see him try to start his own clan or army. He could just go rogue...but I'd rather see Mileena do that. And while we're on that subject...


Mileena
I think Mileena should stay masked and skanky because I think that suits her character. Aside from that, I think she's successfully escaped looking like just another "ninja" with the somewhat Arabian flavor they've given her. Keep stuff like that up and I think she'll be fine.

As others have said, I really hope Mileena gets over her hatred for Kitana and moves on. I think it'd be really interesting to see how she interacts and deals with different characters...particularly, other bad guys looking to screw her over.


Kitana
Kitana's in kind of weird spot in that, she should stop looking like a "ninja" since it doesn't suit her story anymore. However, story-wise, she desperately needs to get away from the princess/leader role and find something new...so emphasizing royal aspects in her design would be kind of counterproductive. Either way, I think we can all agree she needs to at least find something other than the blue bathing suit.

As said, she desperately needs to get the hell away from being a royal. It's boring and killing her bit by bit with each new game. Destroy Edenia completely or just have something so bad happen she abandons the realm and find her something new to do. Ironically, she could benefit from re-embracing her more "ninja" like qualities...being a ruthless, cold-blooded killer and such.


Jade
Terms of looks, I think Jade's escaped the "ninja" template well enough. She's just wearing a bra, panties, and loin cloth...but it does the trick. Not sure where she could go from there, but it's something.

Unfortunately, I've little-to-no interest in her future prospects. I honestly can't think of anything she could do that couldn't be done and done better by Kitana, Sindel, or Mileena.


Smoke
I don't want to see Smoke become a human again...but I can appreciate the sentiment that he shouldn't be a cyborg anymore. I say move along the ethereal theme and make him look like a more ghostly phantasm-like figure. I think that would be sufficiently non-ninja enough.

If they even bring him back. Personally, I think he wouldn't be that big a loss. If they do bring him back, obviously, they need to let him escape Noob Saibot and be his own man.


Noob Saibot
As the new ruler of the Netherealm...I'm guessing...Noob should adopt a more imposing and authorative look. Less ninja and more...I don't know. Something big and scary...like the Witch King of Angmar or something. He should, however, always retain a faceless appearance. Whether it's a mask or he's just shrouded in shadow, we should never see Noob with human features...like his Deception primary. Because then he doesn't look like Noob Saibot anymore...just some S&M gimp.

Story-wise, I want Noob Saibot back if, and ONLY IF, he doesn't feud with Sub-Zero. As said, it's boring and waste of Sub-Zero's time. If Noob comes back, have him focus on Scorpion and/or Sareena. Let Scorpion take responsibility for his actions, since he more-or-less created Noob...growing the fuck up, like I suggested....and Sareena would just be fun.
NOOB: "Hey Sareena...want to rule the Netherealm with me?"
SAREENA: "Not really....'cause I hate it there, and you're kind of a tool now."
NOOB: "....well now I'll have to kill you."
SAREENA: "Ah shit..."


Sektor
I think with Sektor they make him look less and less human. More accessories & gadgets and a continually less humanoid figure.

As said, if they bring Sektor back, I'd like to see him feud with Sub-Zero. They can build him up as Subz' antithesis and it'd be much more interesting than the Special Forces.


Cyrax
If they keep Cyrax around, they can contrast Sektor's becoming more and more machine-like with more weapons and shit by having Cyrax adopt a sleeker and more streamlined look.

If they keep him around. Personally, I think Cyrax can go. Let Sektor kill him.


Ermac
Similar to Noob Saibot, I think Ermac should always keep his face covered or hidden. Not so much because he's a "ninja" and should look like one...but more because he's a freak. He's supposed to be this enigmatic, mystical being and IMO, showing his face takes that away from him. Aside from that, keep the priest-like robes they gave him in Deception and carry on along those lines.

Far as story goes, I'd like to see Ermac develop into a major character. Set him up as Outworld's defender and maybe he can grow into one of the main heroes like how Sub-Zero did.


Rain
Since Rain is running around claiming to be royalty, they should probably show that in his design by making him look more and more regal and prince-like. Less ninja.

Story-wise though, to be honest, the only thing about him I'm interested in is a potential connection to Kitana. My interest in his ties to Taven and Daegona are dick, but I've always been a fan of the idea that Rain has some sort of crush on Kitana. With him confirmed as evil and running around claiming to be a prince, I think that could be fun. Especially if they run with Kitana abandoning Edenia.
RAIN: "Hey Kitana!"
KITANA: "Rain..? I thought you were dead..."
RAIN: "Nope. Guess what...I've got great news! Remember how we though my father was a general killed by Shao Kahn?"
KITANA: "Uh-huh..."
RAIN: "Well it turns out my real father is Argus the god! You know what that means? It means I'm royalty and we can hook up!"
KITANA: ".....I don't think it works that way Rain. And I'm kind of done with Edenia now...."
RAIN: "Ah, bullshit. Let's bang!"
KITANA: "....."


Chameleon
Fuck him.


Khameleon
If by some freak chance Khameleon came back, they should make her look like a Zaterran...like she's supposed to look. I guess she'd end up in a similar situation as Reptile, only female. But I don't see as much outcry from fans demanding she look like a human ninja again. If anything, she could really benefit from looking radically different.

Since I think Reptile's done, if they keep Khameleon around, maybe they could have her trying to find what to do with herself as the last of her kind. Might be easier to just lose her and move on.


Frost
Much as I like Frost, the problem with her is, by her very concept, she is the "female Sub-Zero." So to make her not a female Sub-Zero...you'd effectively make her not Frost anymore. And if you're going that far....what's the point?

Best Mortal Kombat storyline ever!

Some have said Reptile has more depth than a typical henchmen. That depth was squandered when it was revealed in Khameleon's profile that she revealed her entire history to Reptile, he went with her to attack Kahn, only to turn his back on her and attack her, an attack she barely survived.

Reptile knows that Kahn killed his people, and doesn't care. That really kills any hope for character development for our favorite scaley villain.

As for Frost, I always wanted her to be Noob's daughter, and have that be why she betrayed Sub-Zero. She was working for her father.

You count Tanya as a ninja, and leave out Reiko? Talk about not looking ninja-y anymore... >.> He even had shuriken. (technically Noobs from revision changes).

Ermac could be a new teacher. He contains the wisdom of many. He helped Kenshi, and Liu Kang. He has story potential.

Rain's story is getting interesting. His rivalry with Taven could escalate now that Taven is "back". Rain isn't the only Prince nod, play Mythologies 1st level, Thieves in the Temple...



Ka-Tra

I agree with the TC.

Personally I think most ninjas need to go either permanently or at least have a long absence. Such as Cyrax, Smoke, Frost, Jade, Khameleon, Chameleon, Tanya, Rain and Noob Saibot.

The other ninjas should be deninjatized with the exception of Scorpion of course and I wouldn't really mind Sub-Zero keeping the ninja look either since he is leader of a "ninja" clan even though it's not literally a ninja clan. Everyone else should start adopting their own unique appearance though. Mileena should probably also retain her ninja look and mask for obvious reasons.

I think Reptile is acceptable, though still retaining an element of the ninja look he has pretty much gotten away from that classification, Ermac though I think should undergo a few more changes.

So Reptile, even though he was trying to get back his race, finds out that Shao Kahn never really kept them alive, yet HE STILL SERVES THEM? That makes no sense!

Either Khameleon's story is non-canon, or Shao Kahn easily convinced Reptile, or the MK storywriters just made him a crazy lunatic.

I addressed this in my Storyline Analysis thread:


Either way, Reptile's conscious choice to betray Khameleon and remain on the side of evil is very revealling about his character. It's a big reason why I think he's due to die in Armageddon. He had his chance at redemption and renounced it.

To Icebaby: I don't think that they ran out of ideas. There are many different martial arts styles out there. With both Scorpion and Cyrax in MK: Deadly Alliance and with Scorpion being a ninja from a ninja clan, I would think that they would use common sense and give him Ninjutsu (even if they misspell it "Ninjitsu"). Instead, not only do they give Cyrax "Ninjitsu", they give the backstory that "Ninjitsu" was one of the martial arts styles he learned when he was a Lin Kuei warrior.

That doesn't make any sense given previously established story elements. It's just as bad as giving Aikido to Kano. Even Piguazhang doesn't really make much sense for Scorpion. I picture him as being a more linear, aggressive fighter, so I can definitely see strong influences from Koto-Ryu Koppojutsu, which is an art the ninja used. It involves attacks to the opponent's bone structure. But not only does Scorpion not use Ninjutsu, he doesn't have patience to control his rage and does not cultivate a good heart.

To XiahouDun84: Excellent idea for Chameleon!

To Tetra_Vega: Good point about Reiko. I'd probably want him back too.


Rain

Given his return and story in MK: Armageddon, he has potential to continue on. After being defeated by Taven, I'm sure he'll likely come back and cause trouble for Edenia. He's a character that doesn't have to have the ninja look to him. I think they should go for a regal-looking bandit design, and it would be interesting to see him unmasked.

Then again, for those that want to have a sense of mystery to him, he could have a costume that has a helmet that covers his head and face without going for a "ninja" design. Instead, it could perhaps be an "evil knight" look.

Character-wise, I'd like to see what can be done with Rain to make him a distinct enough villain. I'm thinking that they could have him see himself as a victim. I'd imagine that he'd focus more on antagonizing Taven. This is of course if Taven returns.

Some have suggested Rain teaming up with Tanya as a "Bonnie and Clyde" type duo. While that might help Tanya's character, I'm still not a fan of the character so I don't want her to return. I see Rain's story involving him trying to attain full godhood and maybe even demand answers from Argus.

Ermac

Ermac has become one of my favorites with his return in MK: Deception. Like Rain, he doesn't have to have the ninja look though in Ermac's case, I'd like to see his face covered to give him that mysterious vibe. I like the idea of him being a mystic warrior.

Character and story-wise, he could develop into a next-gen protagonist. I could see Ermac being more closely involved in a story with the One Being, which is alluded to in his MK: Deception ending.

Mileena

With her return in MK: Deception, I like appreciate Mileena's character a lot more than I did in the past. It's great that she's stepped out of the story with Kitana and is doing more of her own thing. Honestly, I'd rather it be that way, because both characters don't have to be reliant on each other to have a good story.

After getting her taste of power, she wants more, and I could see that being part of her story. She'll have to be smart if she is to overcome stronger evils in order to obtain the power she wants. That could involve becoming close to those types of characters. There was a thought that came to mind about a direction of her mentally degenerating, with the Tarkatan side of her gradually becoming more predominant. That could be a dilemma for her, and she could try to find a way to fix herself, albeit with just about any means necessary.

Jade

Even though I like Jade, having her return is something that should come with a good direction. Of course, that applies to all characters returning. However, this is especially true for characters like Jade, because she is seen as being stuck in Kitana's shadow with the Edenian sub-plot. I'd like to learn more about her character, her past, etc. Of course we know that she was Kitana's childhood friend and was trained to become a warrior assassin like Kitana. I just want to get more of an idea of what her character is like and how she is distinct from someone like Kitana. Not only that, I want to see Jade have her own story outside of the Edenian sub-plot. With her rivalry with Tanya shown in MK: Deception, it is possible that Tanya will return to have a continuation of the rivalry.

I don't have many concrete story ideas for her unfortunately. If she does return and has something good going for her, I'm all for it.

Sektor

Sektor is a character who has definitely grown as a villain. With the Tekunin, he could be a mid-level villain who focuses on being a threat to Earth. Also, with Sub-Zero likely returning, I could see them and their clans having a war. If these sorts of directions are going to take place, I would like to see some backstory on Sektor when he was a human. It doesn't have to go too in-depth, but it would be nice to see.

Cyrax

Cyrax is a cool character, but he is the kind of character that could be done away with for the sake of streamlining the story. However, if he and Sektor return, Cyrax could be involved in it. However, it can be argued that Sub-Zero is Sektor's antithesis (and vice versa), so it's not necessary.

Noob Saibot

With the Sub-Zero/Noob Saibot rivalry, I can see him probably returning. I definitely like Noob Saibot, but I have been thinking about the future of Sub-Zero's story. If the current Sub-Zero continues onto the next generation, if there's going to be a sense of closure, maybe there shouldn't be too much going on in his next-gen story. Although Sub-Zero wants to save his brother, there probably will be a point in which Sub-Zero realizes that his brother is gone and that he has to destroy Noob Saibot for his brother's soul to rest in peace.

Reiko

I forgot to mention Reiko, because he is sort of ninja-ish with the old outfit plus his shuriken (NOTE: The shuriken was a Samurai weapon that the Ninja used.). Although Paragon and I had him as the new Emperor of Outworld in our MK: Resurrection story, perhaps it'd be more interesting if Outworld goes through something that Japan went through by having a division of many territories each ruled by a warlord. That is what happened in the Sengoku Jidai (Warring States Period), and you could have the plot involve the different warlords trying to gain control over other territories.

Reiko could evolve from one of Shao Kahn's generals into a warlord who tries to take over the other territories and have a sense of unity. I could imagine characters like Li Mei and Ermac being his main enemies. He definitely doesn't have to have a ninja-ish look, and I'd rather have him with a Samurai theme if he's going to be like a daimyo (warlord).

I think a pretty decent job's been done thus far of distinguishing the old pallette swaps from one another, but yes, still a bit more could be done to help the process along in some cases

There's just no pleasing everyone though. You take a character too far away from their established persona, and people will cry foul. Lord help you if it's a popular ninja archetype.

Common features of your typical MK 'ninja' include the following: masks, forearm and shinguards, vests which taper off into breechcloths (those dangly strips below the belt) - or a leotard if you're a girl - and most importantly, the inability to wear more than one color at any given time.

That said, here's my stand on where these guys ought to go in terms of both looks and plot:

Sub-Zero: I'd like for him to retain the cryomancer armor, perhaps minus the helmet and furry collar, but to be blunt, I think it's time Sub-Zero II died and passed the mantle on. If the tradition of introducing an important new character with their own Konquest mode continues, it could be a role given to the newest protege, another cryomancer descendant Sub-Zero discovers and trains properly. By Konquest's end, perhaps Sub-Zero will have pinpointed Noob Saibot's location, and leave in order to try and get at him one more time, not realizing his brother is a lost cause. It would be what kills him.

Scorpion: I completely envision Scorpion as the big bad boss in a beefed-up form in some future MK. He should start getting ready to look the part. Now that he has his Shirai Ryu back, he should take the step Sub-Zero took and look more like a clan leader, very supernatural - in fact, I think it's time he ditched the fake skin on his face entirely, while retaining the lower mask.

Scorpion's been getting progressively more hateful, and the Elder Gods bringing back the Shirai Ryu as hellspawn like himself had to have been the straw that broke the camel's back. If he absolutely must go back to being a character motivated by vengeance, which seems to be the case, then why not try to get all the armies of hell behind him, for a future attack on the Elder Gods themselves? Which brings me to...

Noob Saibot: I don't think there's a single person who would shed a tear if Shinnok was destroyed and never came back. If Noob pulled it off, and used his Smoke-formed army to do it, taking possession of the Netherrealm from the blue bastard, it would be poetic justice, dating back to MK Mythologies. Full circle. And the thought of a Scorpion-led Shirai Ryu vs Saibot's new Brotherhood of Shadow for control of the Netherrealm makes me kinda moist. Two monsters who made each other, duking it out for the crown.

In terms of his appearance, Noob-Smoke's alternate costumes becoming their MKA defaults is proof that Noob hasn't magically reacquired his human-looking skin...but he should definitely appear more shadowy, and wraithlike, only faint traces and details on his oufit being partially visible at any given time.

Smoke: Everyone seems to be unanimous on this one - he needs to be nobody's bitch. Noob-Smoke was a fun one-off shot, but even though MKA didn't do much for too many people plot-wise, I was still disappointed to see him still there without a will of his own. I'd very much like it if, at the end of Armageddon, Sub-Zero helped him get his will back while Noob escaped. Sub's got a lot to deal with, on his plate are his brother, Frost, and the Tekunin. if Smoke's rehabilitated and given back his will, he could act as steward to the Lin Kuei while Sub-Zero goes after Noob. I can see Smoke taking down Sektor in a surprise Lin Kuei offensive. I thought his cyber-demon MKD-MKA form was great, and doesn't need too much altering - perhaps his face could regain a vaguely human shape with his rehabilitation - I'm thinking a blurred, obscure area with faintly glowing eyes, and not much else visible. I'd like for him to leave all traces of the cybernetic process behind.

Reptile: Man, when MKDA came out and he was a lizardman, I remember assloads of people thinking it was the coolest thing ever. When did the fanbase do a 180? I liked the Shaolin Monks look as much as anyone - I have an action figure coming in the mail - but I think it's a disservice to all his progression to just have him go back to the basic look. As for plot, I like the idea of him setting out on his own. He should come away from his metamorphosis into Onaga with heightened awareness and renewed intellect. I see him changed, hungry for power, and determined to stop at nothing to get it. I'd have his physical appearance reflect that - clothes tattered all to hell after his ordeal, maybe shirtless with the MKSM mask, revealing a hint of the grey skin which MK4 showed us from his neck down.

Ermac: Definitely needs to look even less ninja-like than he currently does. Could stand to lose the breechcloth, and have red dominate his color scheme a bit less. In my ideal future MK game, Shang Tsung has been vastly weakened but survived Armageddon, and is now back to his aged form. He realizes he needs a power boost, and Ermac, being an amalgam of souls, looks tasty. Ermac, not being an idiot, would be very aware of this, and having taken up residence with a finally-reinvigorated White Lotus Society (following his team-up with Liu Kang's spirit), could help to lead a strike team devoted to taking down Outworld's most prominent threats, with Shang as his primary target. I envision this attack as being coordinated between the white lotus (who I think are long overdue to take on an offensive role)and the OIA. Maybe he could call in Kenshi for backup, or giggles.

Rain: If anyone benefited from MKA, it was this guy. I think it's high time another ninja ditched the mask, and it ought to be him. Unlike almost everyone else who put on the palette-swapped duds, he's plainly normal in appearance under there, with nothing special to hide. I think 'thief' whenever I look at him; and would like to see that MKA look expanded on a bit more; it was great. Maybe give him an arsenal of knives strapped to his thighs. His beef with Taven is something I'd like to see fleshed out more in a future MK. Have him kill Daegon to get under his skin.

Reiko: MKA was a decent look for him, sans that damn breechcloth. I think he's successfully broken away from the ninja mold, minus that thing. Otherwise, I think he looks good. Still one for the kill pile though - MKA was supposed to kill off redundant cast members, and lordy, if you ask me, is he ever one of them.

Chameleon: Conveniently, I think the best look and plot direction for this guy are the same thing: head on a stick. Appears Ed feels the same way, thank god.

Kitana: A few touches of regal quality to the leotard they're always going to keep her in. I wrote more than a few paragraphs on this in the sexy outfits thread. Storyline-wise, i think the Kitana-Mileena feud should end with her death - I find her boring as all hell these days.

Mileena: They've got her right - raunchy and power-mad. I've got no problems with her look these days, and I just think it's time she up and killed off Kitana.

Jade: She now seems to be MK's resident beautiful amazon. I think it's a decent look that could use more visual evidence of the small arsenal she seems to carry around with her. I can't suggest too much variation in her color scheme - her name is Jade, after all - but a few touches of aquamarine wouldn't hurt. I'd like for her to kill off Tanya, and should Kitana die, with Mileena replacing her, Jade's disillusionment could cause her to emigrate to Orderrealm. She'd make a good ally for Hotaru, encouraging him to march on both Outworld and Edenia to impose - what else? - order.

Khameleon: A sadly missed opportunity I doubt we'll ever see again, unfortunately. Her MKA transparent look was alright, but the green leotard infringes on Jade's territory. I'd prefer if she were nearly completely transparent, fading in and out of view like MKT had her do - she's a great choice for a secret character in any game. Perhaps she could take on some of the more animalistic qualities people didn't like on Reptile much - I think a tail would be great. I don't know what could be done with her plot-wise though - maybe she was able to harvest some of Chameleon's DNA (bow chicka-bow-bow) before he died and already spawned a new generation of Zaterrans (assuming Chameleon was one too). Maybe it's best we got a new character out of one of those, and left her to the background (at least, until the next Nintendo version of the next MK game comes out...ZING!)

Tanya: People here seem conflicted on whether she qualifies as a ninja or not. I find her MKD outfit unique enough to qualify her as not; it's just her blinding, painful choice of crayola yellow which lumps her in. She could really be helped by wearing some different colors, that's all. Also, I'd ditch the stupid galoshes. Point's moot anyways as I'd rather she was among MKA's casualties. She's too predictable...here's hoping Jade offs her.

Frost: She's served her role as a failed protege. I'd rather she died during MKA, but if not, perhaps she could wise up and realize she's not leader material...perhaps she can atone by helping Smoke during an assault on the Tekunin. I think she could eventually be a great advisor figure, if nothing else, for Sub-Zero's eventual true successor. I've got few problems with her look, as she's an actual real 'female MK ninja', unique enough alone among a cast of women often erroneously dubbed as such. I'd ditch her mask though.

This retardation in this thread makes babies die.

Clearly the point of the thread was to discuss which characters that spawned as mere palette swaps or for whatever reason, are being categorized as a ninja by the MK Team.

Look at it this way. Chameleon has, at one point or another, had moves from Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Ermac, Reptile, Rain, Smoke, and Noob. Khameleon has moves from Tanya, Mileena, Jade and Kitana. Clearly MK team has categorized them, as loose as it may be.

That out of the way, out of all the "ninjas". Here's my list.

Definitely should return:
Sub-Zero
Scorpion
Reptile
Ermac
Kitana
Mileena

Would like to see:
Smoke

Don't really care:
Noob-Saibot
Rain
Jade

Do not want to see:
Tanya
Chameleon
Khameleon
Frost

But why consider them ninjas if they don't act like one? Then that means that Reiko is Kahn since he wore his helmet in the ending.



And you say there's retardation in this thread... Clearly Tanya is not, nor has she ever, been a ninja in the game.

No, the point of this post was to discuss how far the color swappers were. Not why MK team calls them classifies them. It seems the retardation in this thread didn't happen until you came.


Also, you forgot Sektor and Cyrax.


Babies are still alive.

OK, I guess we're discussing all the "ninja" characters at once... So...

Want to see back (top priority):
Sub-Zero
Ermac
Kitana

Would like to see back:
Noob Saibot*
Sektor*
Rain
Jade
Mileena
Cyrax
Tanya

Don't care that much:
Scorpion
Smoke
Reptile
Frost

Never want to see again:
Chameleon
Khameleon


* = could go into the top priority group as well

Well...

Primary Ninjas

Scorpion

Looks something like:
One
Two ....

A ninja, before just about anything else. Dead skin, a thing from hell who was definitely once a human man. Almost grotesque...but not so much. I don't think he should have a "clean" design about him at all really. If so, there should always be something really disturbing about it. He should look like a ninja who's been through hell...literally.

Story:

Others have expressed his story stuff....Im not a genuine Scorpion fan.

Sub-Zero

Looks:

I don't have any pictures because I don't feel that he has looked like a master martial artist//cryomancer yet. Although, his latest primary costumes look really good. I liked the MKvsDc look alot but, maybe something that signifies leadership and experience would be more appropriate as a primary. Maybe have the ninja costume be the primary, with the Grandmaster scheme as a secondary. Same sort of set up as they did with MKD....just different.

I wasn't a fan of the shredder thing, but I was able to appreciate what they tried to do with him around that design.

Story:

Again, others have expressed something akin to what i'd like to see from him. XD84, Shadaloo, Sub Zero7th, Baraka07...ect I agree with them. He should probably be going up against bigger foes. He's been ready for a long time now. And if not, why no let us have a new Sub-Zero step forward?

I think it would be really cool to see this older SZ mentoring//training the new one, and then having him die, or step aside. Btw, from my view Frost just doesn't cut it so far.... She's too childish I think and would not suffice as an adequate replacement for the male cryomancers we've seen thus far.

Something else is, I don't subscribe to any one of these cryomancers ever becoming some sort of ice god. Maybe close to it in terms of power, wisdom, attitude, and capabilities... but I don't think I'd ever want to see that day.

Ermac

Looks:

So long as they keep treating is appearance like his latest costume, I don't see any reason that wouldn't continue to be great. I loved his latest design and I think they should keep going with at least those sorts of cues. The wraps, heavy red//black design lines, topped off with the silver and green accents. Very tightly woven, clean cut designs for Ermac.

I'd maybe like to see what a special move would look like if he came undone since he's a culmination of many and the costume is the only thing keeping "them" together. Something like what happens to DC's Captain Marvel when his costume is punctured (fatality?)...sorta.

Story:

I think he's better now that he's free from Shao Kahns rule, and again, I agree with others here that he's been look like a mentor//teacher for some time now. I don't know about him ever leading an army or anything really grand like that but, he serves good purpose doing what he wants to do. I think it was really interesting to see him putting in work for the good guys for once.

Maybe that's part of the intent of some of the souls that he harbors....and what happens if some of the souls he harbors motivate him to do negative things as well?

Sektor

Looks:

One

Two

I STILL haven't seen better than what Aculeus has done with Sektor in human/Ninja or cyborg form so....something that steps up from his design seems best to me.

Sektor and his army of Tekkunin should be organic and robotic, right? So there's alot of stuff to play with there. There's cyborg, steampunk, and any other variation of robot//man you can think of.

Sektor himself should by now, be capable of transforming in some really cool way. He might have the Terminator T1000's capabilities in that he can transform into different organic or robotic things so long as it is human-like in form. I would limit him to two or three looks.

a: A very slick...very clean and futuristic sort of Robot
b: human//ninja
c: Some sort of supreme, freakish looking design only seen in maybe the Konquest mode. Maybe even something like Brainiacs Skull Sip.

Story:

Brainiac complex vs the US Speacial Forces. Many know I like the idea of a "The Matrix" trilogy, or the "Terminator" series, or "War of the Worlds" (man against the machine//alien) sort of scheme as a sub-plot for the Tekkunin vs SF.

You got Sonya, Jax, Sektor, Cyrax, and Kenshi all mixed in there up front. New character potential, potential to pull other parts of the roster into that subplot....potential for a SF side game....ect.

Sektor I think would do well over the course of a couple games trying to take over the world for some convoluted robotic reason.

Kitana

Looks:

I liked MKvsDC Kitana but I think it still under appreciates how sharp she is, and how much she should have grown as a character by now. Something ninja-like, instead of the leotard seems in order. For gods sakes nothing that screams "royalty, flowers, or soft princess". How about a mainly black costume, but with accents of blue here or there? No, not a silly "ribbon" or something flailing from her wrists....how about a stripe throughout her design somewhere.....or possibly something as simplistic as an Edenian badge//broach//stitching that recognizes her as the Princess. Idk.....

Story:

See XD84

Secondary Ninjas
(have good potential by themselves but.....I'm waiting..)

1. Noob Saibot
2. Rain ~***wildcard in this category (could be 3rd string, def not 1st or 4th.)***~
3. Mileena

Third String Ninjas
(most likely should//could come back as secrets. they don't really stand up by themselves and are pretty much overshadowed by someone else all the time.)

1. Reptile
2. Smoke
3. Cyrax ~***wildcard in this category (could be 2nd string, def not 1st or 4th.)***~
4. Jade

Ahh...whateva
(I just don't care about them)

1. Chameleon
2. Khameon
3. Frost
4. Tanaya

I think that's about how I'd call it.

You know in regards to what Sub-Zero said about "I'm not a ninja, I'm Lin Kuei" I thought that was just him saying like "I'm more than a ninja, the best ninja". Make sense? Kinda like if I were to say I'm not a cop, I'm NYPD. Just trying to beef up my dept/clan more than the others. Make any sense or am I crazy?

That's not what he meant. He is trying to distinct himself from the ninja, who are Japanese. In MK's story, ninja are Japanese counterparts to the Lin Kuei.

I have to agree with Baraka and those who support his point about the definition of "ninja" here. We're not being technical, and we're not really talking about who is actually a ninja, it's just about the palette swaps and their appearances to some degrees. People need to relax.

Here are the ninjas I would not mind returning:

Sub-Zero
Story:
Here is a character that I was never the biggest fan of, but objectively have to acknowledge as perhaps the best developed character in MK history. It's genius how they have contrasted him against his deceased older brother, and how he's grown his own personality, and redeemed his clan as a force of good.

Maybe I've missed some development somewhere, but one piece that is rarely mentioned in regards to Sub-Zero is his possession of the Dragon Medallion. Isn't it aging him as well as making him more powerful, or something? I think this itself can lead to great internal conflict for Sub-Zero. Sort of like the "One Ring" from Lord of the Rings. Does Sub-Zero keep the DM and go to an early grave for the sake of being powerful enough to defend the realms -- or does he throw away the Medallion at some point, and go back to being some sort of youthful warrior -- without the same measure of power but with more wisdom from the experience?

Many critique the potential of the storyline, but to me it does not make sense to have his connection with Noob Saibot ignored. I don't think he should become obsessed with his brother, nor should he try to save him. But it goes against the nature of the character to at least not regard that his brother exists as a wraith of pure evil. Subby should want to freeze his ass if they ever meet. If just to finally clear that chip off his shoulder and prove he is ten times the ice-man his brother ever was.

Appearance:
I think the aging of Sub-Zero should come into play here. I think they could actually give us an elderly appearing Sub-Zero, as corny as it sounds. Just for one game, before we return to the young, spry Sub. The Dragon Medallion can heal his scar, which can symbolise how the power surging through him might actually cause him to forget who he actually is (to some degree), and represent a distance from his past. He can still be an intimidating physical presence -- but I think age could be key here for Sub.

Scorpion
Story:
I really don't like Scorpion's story. It's been a dud since about MK2. I liked the idea of him agreeing to work with Shao Kahn in MK3, but we never really got an explanation as to just what Scorps was doing back in the Netherrealm, anyway. I think we need to have Scorpion killing Quan Chi in Armageddon, and getting some peace. It's kind of funny that a few of the ninja characters actually have a problem with the Elder Gods at the moment -- Sub-Zero, Scorpion and Rain all see to be getting set-up for some sort of "God vs. Ninja" war. I hope they don't go that way, though.

I've always liked the idea of Scorpion taking responsibility for creating Noob Saibot, and sort of "racing" Sub-Zero to the kill there. But can his stuff with the Elder Gods just be ignored? Another theory I've been having is that Rain and Scorpion could become involved somehow. Probably not as buddies who want to bring down the gods (although that is a possibility), but maybe even as enemies? Rain thinks he is a demi-god, and Scorpion hates the gods, so I could see the Elders sort of promising Rain a spot with them if he extinguishes Scorpion. That's if Rain returns. If not, it could be a completely new character sent to stop Scorpion. But yeah, I can't see the "Scorpion takes on The Heavens" stuff just dropped.

Appearance:
Part of me would love to see Scorpion move a little away from the yellow attire. It's so iconically associated with him, I know -- but I wouldn't mind it if they just cut it down to some detailing on him here and there. The handles of his weapons, and maybe the guard he wears over his mouth, a headband under his hood and a Shirai Ryu symbol somewhere. Perhaps have a bit of the yellow "demon blood" that has been suggested in his "reboot" version. A darker Scorpion would certainly not bother me, anyway.

Ermac
Story:
I personally think that the third primary coloured ninja take a break from the story for a little bit. I love the character as much as anybody, but I think he gets physically destroyed during the chaos of Armageddon, and he then spends all of MK9 slowly regrouping to "respawn," if you will. Mortal Kombat X can then feature the big return of the red telekinetic warrior.

Appearance:
I like what they did with Ermac for Deception. The "genie" look, as I like to call it, worked well for him. It had elements of class, mystery and added an almost exotic sting to the character. For some reason, I do not want to see Ermac move away from the red colour scheme. While I think some characters do need to move away from their current attires -- I like Ermac being dressed almost exclusively in red. It suits him for whatever reason.

Kitana
Story:
I think Kitana, like Sub-Zero, is one of the most obvious choices to return in future MK games. She's got such a well developed story, and it'd be such a waste to ditch her when there are so many ways to go with her. Personally, I'd have her mother confirmed dead (Sindel survives Armageddon, but is then killed by an assassin), while Jade and Tanya are missing (that's a friend and an enemy she has on her mind). Meanwhile there is a sort of "rebellion" in Edenia. Now that the threats to the realm are done with, there is some criticism of Kitana for once serving Shao Kahn so loyally. I can imagine a new character who had a loved one killed by Kitana as ordered by Shao Kahn as they led an early movement to liberate Edenia.

Some people want to nuke Edenia; but I say let it destroy itself over time. Kitana basically discovers does not have the right sort of skills to be the Queen of the realm, and that her mother was better suited to it. Kitana sort of turns her back on Edenia, as they are all sort of "lol wut?" as they all go to hell and Kitana is like "Yeah, fuck you for biting the hand that saves your realm, bitches." She can fight in MK9 for some reason or another -- it depends what your main villain is.

Appearance:
I think Kitana can move away from blue now. It was a way to identify her in early games, but I think we are now in an era where a character can be defined by facial features, or something of the like. Part of me would not even mind it if they gave Kitana a big, ugly definitive scar as a result of a battle during Armageddon. It could reflect how she's changed internally, as well.

For a while, I was suggesting something "regal" for Kitana; but it makes no sense for her to fight like that, really. I'd actually go really fucking simple with the design -- black leotard. Maybe give her some bands on her legs and arm, or something; but keep it really simple. Kitana was trained as an assassin -- not a fashion catalogue. You can incorporate blue into the design and patterning on her fans.

For an alt -- and this might disgust some people -- I would not mind it if she wore some sort of battle-dress to pay respect to her mother (confirmed dead) and Jade (suspected to be such). A purple/green combo would look weird as hell; but who says that Edenians need to have good taste?

Jade
Story:
Ugh, I can't believe I've been convinced that she should return. Like Ermac, though, I do not think it should be right away. Let her sit one game out, and return for Mortal Kombat X. She can chase Tanya during Armageddon, and hunt her down, killing her (I don't think Tanya should return). Jade then spends MK9 learning the truth about Edenia somehow. Either she encounters some sort of spirit, some sort of ruins, or scripture -- something that reveals that Edenia belongs to Jerrod's bloodline because of some sort of wrong in the past. Basically, I'd have Jade's allegiance to Edenia tested and perhaps even inverted.

You could either have Jade revealed to be the "true heir" to the Edenian throne (I know, it's getting old characters fighting over it), or you could have her just return with a different agenda in mind (completely ignoring Edenia and seeing it as a lost cause). Either way, I think Jade in MKX could be interesting.

Appearance:
They seem to be heading in the right direction with Jade. I liked her appearance in MKD. It'd be cool if when she returned she had a sort of "humble" look about her. Or that her clothes had aged and faded a bit while she was gone. I don't think she needs to stick to green, either. You can move her into other colours, and just give her that flexibility for future games.

Rain
Story:
I'm not completely sure he should return. His story is certainly getting more interesting, but it feels like too grand a story for such an unneccessary character. As soon as I heard he was the son of Argus, I immediately began to question who Rain's mother was. There are so many things you could do with this. Hell, it could even be Sindel, which would be weird for poor Kitana.

That Argus' sons control and manipulate fire, and that Rain has water powers seems completely random to me. It may not be exact science; but what sort of element could you clash with the very hot (fire) to make the more neutral one (water)? Ice seems like a good enough bet. The solid clashes against the gas to create the liquid. Could it be possible that Rain is not only decended from Argus; but from the cryomancers that Sub-Zero is, as well? It'd be interesting if Rain was like Sub-Zero's great-great-great-great-great-great uncle, or something whack like that.

What fascinates me is that Rain sort of has the story of Perseus going on for himself; but yet he's still a "heel" within the story. Just look up the story of Perseus -- it's so interesting the kind of names that pop up. "Argos" actually pops up in there.

For some reason, I just cannot take the name "Rain" seriously, though. Sounds so emo, and reminds you too much of the "Purple Rain" joke. Change his name to something Greek sounding, and let him be his own man for a change. Maybe have him hide in the shadows for a little bit, or completeing some sort of quest. I don't think he needs to be in every single game from now until eternity, if they do bring him back.

Appearance
I would ditch the purple. Like the name "Rain," it just connects too much to the old joke. It's hard to take the man seriously as a demi-god. Let him show his face, and let him kick a lot of ass. He should be an intimidating presence if he has the blood of a god flowing through him. Make Rain the perfect physical specimen. Perhaps even let him know it, and have an air of arrogance about the character. Keep his current wormy attitude, though.

Noob Saibot
Story:
He's been in every game since MK2, so it seems fair to even expect he will be back. I don't mind so much, as he's really developed as a character. Canonically he seems really powerful, too (defeating Goro, who was MK Champion, don't you forget). I'm not sure if I like his idea to grow his own army, or whatever. I'd like to see him out of hell, and causing havoc for the realms of the living -- becoming the responsibility of both Sub-Zero and Scorpion. I think Noob could be quite the interesting villain.

Appearance:
Keep him black and mysterious. Yeah, we know who he is, but the mystique of the character is what makes him really cool. Give him an intimidating presence -- like he could destroy you, but if you hit him, it might just destroy you too. I think the line between the physical and the spiritual could be breached with Noob's appearance. There could be elements of him that make him appear like a nightmare, or that he could just disappear into the wind at any point. Yet the trick is giving him weight, as well. Power and Noob Saibot are two things that I think go hand-in-hand. The thing about a Noob Saibot design is that when you have a good one, you know so right away.

It aged him, but I don't think it's continually aging him. They could easily reveal that the Medallion has frozen him (no pun intended) in that state...kind of like Mr. Freeze.

If they're not looking to have him pass the Sub-Zero name on anytime soon and the Medallion has left him in an ageless state, that could explain how he's not going anywhere anytime soon.