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Grimm
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03/06/2010 07:28 PM (UTC)
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Kabal I think is a must stay, given that he gets a new story. He has one of the more original moves, look and origin. So hopefully he does come back.
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Icebaby
03/08/2010 08:35 PM (UTC)
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Ahh, that's enough talk about Kabal

Kai

A former member of the White Lotus society, he learned his skills from great masters around Asia. He met his friend Liu Kang in America, and now they reunite to assis Raiden in his battle against Shinnok.

After defeating Shinnok, Kai wondered on Earth on a quest for self-enlightenment. As Raiden was about to leave to go back to the Elder Gods, he gave Kai his staff to help him on his quest for immortality.

Then he becomes some link with the One Being in Armageddon’s ending... blah blah, I don’t care about Armageddon....


Anyways, I think Kai could become the next hero. Many have said that he has the potential of becoming the next hero, so why not we give him the chance to do so?

Make him the hero of the next game if he’s going to be in the next game. There’s really no freaking point to make Liu Kang reprise his heroic role after his death in Deadly Alliance. This makes no sense to have him return have so many despised his return in Deception as a zombie. Make Kai the next hero of the game.

I liked his appearance in Armageddon, but ditch the corn rolls or whatever they’re called. Just because he’s black doesn’t mean that every black guy should have some thuggish look, I thought that really made him look like a thug than what he previously looked like in MK4. It’s nice that they completely changed his look but I just don’t think he should look like a thug. Of course, this is in my perspective, not sure if anyone of you guys might agree with me on his look.

What was cool was that once you beaten MK4, you got Raiden’s staff for his weapon.

Oye, another character with fire for powers, at least with his powers, they’re different from Liu Kang’s fireballs. With Kai, he doesn’t shoot straight at the opponent, oh no no no... Instead he either shoots it from above or below, causing either a juggle or just a slam. In Armageddon, he got 2 new powers to get rid of the Handstand and the Lunging Roundhouse. Neither of them were that much of interesting new moves for Kai. I don’t know, I’m not quite sure about his moves.

As stated before with his story, he should be the next hero. With that said, who knows what’s in stored for Kai. He has potential to stay, but it’s in the hands of the creators.

So, let’s debate. Should Kai stay or leave?
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jbthrash
03/08/2010 08:53 PM (UTC)
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Kai: I never liked him. He's was very bland looking in MK4, and he didn't do anything. I really just see no purpose of his existence. If they where going to go threw the trouble of making a new hero why did they just make him a black Lui Kang? Any fans of Kai should not get attached, because he probably won't be back, and there are far more interesting characters to like.

Veridict: Gone. No Kai then Buy.
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Reptile1112
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03/08/2010 09:18 PM (UTC)
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Kai to me was pretty worthless. Not memorable at all. He seemed like a bad Kung Lao. I say he should stay gone forever.
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KingofKings97
03/08/2010 09:29 PM (UTC)
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I think Kai has the potential to be a pretty good character. If they mess around with his appearance and story, I'll play as Kai. So I say, Yes.
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RazorsEdge701
03/08/2010 09:40 PM (UTC)
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I think Kai was a good idea poorly executed. A student training under Liu Kang to be the next hero would've been great...if he had then done anything important or cool.

His moves list is basically a botch too. Fighting from a handstand position is silly and impractical unless you do it logically and make a character who uses Capoeira as their fighting style instead, like Eddy and Christie in Tekken, not to mention it didn't work gameplay-wise in MK4, because just like the weapons, being hit even once ended the stance and the command to return to it was too complicated to be practical.

Should he come back? I don't really think so. I don't see how there's any place for him in the story now. It's basically too late to return to the idea of him as the next generation's hero, and any other role he could fill, as a sidekick of Liu, as a Shaolin Master, as a wandering enlightened warrior, etc. Kung Lao can fill it better.
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Baraka407
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03/08/2010 09:51 PM (UTC)
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Kai is another character that I'm very on the fence about.

On one hand, I can TOTALLY see it from Icebaby's point of view. He has the potential to be the next hero of Mortal Kombat.

On the other hand, I can absolutely see it from jbthrash's point of view. Up until this point, Kai has been a rather bland character. He just goes on a journey. Wow. Exciting.

I liked his moves in MK4 though. He was unique. He had a stance switch in a time where MK didn't have anything like that and I dug it. Sure, the animation looked ridiculously unnatural, but I liked it none the less and plus, unlike Jax's quad slam which was needlessly complicated for no real reason, Kai's hand stand moves were a piece of cake to pull off.

As was this case with many characters in Armageddon, either by story or moves provided etc, that game took all that was good about Kai and crapped all over it.

Instead, they give him a leg kick special that looks exactly like his other leg kick special, only it hits higher. Wow. Weak.

His look in MK4 was decent, if unspectacular, but in MKA, they gave him one of the ugliest outfits I've seen in an MK game. It honestly looks like he's wearing a red muscle suit with two huge white nipples on it. Don't forget the white dong circle as well, because we needed to know where that was located.

WTF?

I didn't mind the hair style. I thought that it made him look similar to the guy that Liu Kang fought in the MK movie. The guy that for some reason had a lion roar? I'm not sure if you want to call his hair style dreads or corn rolls, but I thought it was cool none the less.

Regardless, I like the idea of Kai competing for the title of chosen one with Kung Lao. I think that could be a good angle. Still, he needs an improved look and hopefully, possibly, just maybe the MK team could give him some cool capoiera moves.

VERDICT: STAY, but just barely. He needs some plot refinement in a big way, but I dug him in MK4 and think that a bit of a change in look and a whole lot of change in story could make him not just a good character, but a great one. Of course, the downsides here are many. They could EASILY mess him up.

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BIG_SYKE19
03/08/2010 10:08 PM (UTC)
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i say yeah, with major improvments.
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BlueDragonClan
03/08/2010 10:11 PM (UTC)
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Ok.....Kai

First of all, his hairstyle is called Corn Rows.

Second, um, I really don't know. I wouldn't care if he left, wouldn't care if he stayed. He kinda went no where. I didn't mind his new look. It's at least better than the nonsense Jarek wore. I really liked his tattoos. His fireball moves were nice. Didn't care much for his kicks.

I'd say....go. But I wouldn't be sad if he came back.
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tgrant
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03/08/2010 10:18 PM (UTC)
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Kai is one of those characters that you barely remember exists. He is rather forgettable and aside from his special moves which are interesting and unique, nothing else about him is really appealing. I did like his MK4 Fatalities though. His story is severely lacking and just like any other character who hasn't had anything decent for them in that area, he has potential. It's a shame we never got to see something fleshed out for him in MKA. It's pretty much too late for him now. To make it worse, he was one of the worst characters to play as on MKA and he isn't very popular.
I vote that he goes.
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mkdfan
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03/08/2010 10:24 PM (UTC)
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I dont know much about Kai as I hardly ever played as him.
I'm gonna vote GO as I probs wont ever like him if I don't by now.
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XiahouDun84
03/09/2010 12:04 AM (UTC)
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I have mixed feelings on Kai.

His lack of backstory, motivation, and role makes him more of a vague concept than an actual character. He has potential...but it's broad, undefined potential that's not really based on anything. Meat has that kind of potential. As he is now, he may as well be a brand new character.

I've never really been into using Kai. I don't like his fireballs. The handstand/Capoeira fighting could be cool if they did something interesting with it and maybe developed that into "his thing." Looks-wise, I think he looked best in Armageddon alt...which was just his MK4 look updated. If anything, could be a testament that sometimes a simple design can still work even with the next-gen graphics.

I don't really have any reason to like Kai....but at the same time, I've no reason to really dislike him. It's not like he's been shoved down our throats and I could see myself liking him if they did something good with him. He needs a personality and a purpose. I don't really know what that could be. Kai's always been a character I come up blank with.

Liu Kang's dead....and God willing, STAYING dead. I imagine if Kung Lao sticks around, he'll either become the new main Shaolin hero or he'll adopt a sensei/mentor role. So in that scenario, I can see Kai becoming an up-and-comer. I don't see him immediately becoming the next "main hero" but they can build him up for it. But unless they give him some life, I don't see any reason to care to see it.

I think in the final analysis, Kai can either be a next generation star or Armageddon cannon fodder.

I guess I'll say go. But I'm open to him.
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TemperaryUserName
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03/09/2010 12:23 AM (UTC)
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Kai is okay. That's it. That's all I really have to say about him.

Some have mentioned him being the hero, which works only because his MK4 contribution was nothing more than a setup for a story that never happened. He's a better choice than Kung Lao, at least. Kung Lao has never had any real initiative and making him the main character would just seem strange at this point.

Verdict: If twenty-something of my favorite characters make the cut and there's room for one more, he can stay.
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CyanFan
03/09/2010 01:25 AM (UTC)
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I read that Kai was Gurkha somewhere, and if that's true he's from Nepal and...has no reason whatsoever to be wearing cornrows. Just like Jax has no reason to dress like a gangsta and Jade had no reason to look like an Arabian-themed stripper. Man MK:DA ~ MK:A had a lot of random cultural fail for its PoC. You know you're in trouble when Tanya is your best example of characterization.

It would have been nice to see Kai get a really great revision like Ermac and Rain did, but he didn't and I don't really know if he deserves any more chances, considering he's still as bland and unremarkable as ever. If I really put some effort into it I could probably come up with a good idea for him, but I can't find myself caring that much about MK's humorless monk brigade.

Gone.
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jbthrash
03/09/2010 02:10 AM (UTC)
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TemperaryUserName Wrote:
Kai is okay. That's it. That's all I really have to say about him.

Some have mentioned him being the hero, which works only because his MK4 contribution was nothing more than a setup for a story that never happened. He's a better choice than Kung Lao, at least. Kung Lao has never had any real initiative and making him the main character would just seem strange at this point.

Verdict: If twenty-something of my favorite characters make the cut and there's room for one more, he can stay.


I hate to get off topic, but there is no way you actually said he's a better choice then Kung Lao. First, Kung Lao is way cooler, and it would be a unique twist to have Kung Lao go from being a side kick to step up and take Lui's place. Secondly, from what I understand Kung Lao also became the main hero in MKDA(At least for that one game). Finally, having a character that was only in two games to come out of wandering the Earth, and becoming the new MK champion is insulting to the fans.

I'm also tired of the argument "Well if they reworked his story then he should stay." The problem with that is they can rework any characters story if the next game. Hell if they tried hard enough they could make the dreaded Hsu Hao become a likable character for MK9.
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CyanFan
03/09/2010 02:53 AM (UTC)
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I'm sorry, jb, but to me having Kung Lao win at this point would be just as cheap as having Liu Kang win four tournaments in a row. I mean, for one thing he originally didn't want to be the champion, so if we stick with that characterization, basically the moral of the story is that anyone descended from someone with talent will get the prize whether or not they want it or work for it. Even worse, if we go with his characterization from Shaolin Monks, you'd basically be giving the hero role to the character with a HUGE entitlement complex. As things stand, I'd rather see anyone BUT Kung Lao be the champion from here on out.
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TemperaryUserName
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03/09/2010 06:31 AM (UTC)
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jbthrash Wrote:


I hate to get off topic, but there is no way you actually said he's a better choice then Kung Lao. First, Kung Lao is way cooler, and it would be a unique twist to have Kung Lao go from being a side kick to step up and take Lui's place. Secondly, from what I understand Kung Lao also became the main hero in MKDA(At least for that one game). Finally, having a character that was only in two games to come out of wandering the Earth, and becoming the new MK champion is insulting to the fans.


Kung Lao is cooler, yes. No one would deny that. That's really all he's got, though. I don't think MKDA had any specific protagonist, but if it did, I would say it was vaguely Raiden.

If they were ever going to make Kung Lao the main character, MKDA was definitely the time to do it. But his contributions so far have been rather limited because the creators never assigned him any role beyond that of an assistant. In MK2-3, he helps Liu, in MKDA he helps Raiden, and MKA he helps Fujin. He's an auxillary character. It's not uncommon to make axillary characters into protagonists, but why now? I just think that window closed with MKD.

But even though I think Kai would suffice as a main character, I still think there are better candidates. I'm not crazy about Scorpion, but making him the elder gods' champion was a clever 180 (yet unfortunately dispensed with). Subzero is equally viable, though leader/organizers tend to avoid protagonist roles. Even Kenshi would be a better choice. But I see no problem with Kai. His MK4 story, if taken as a setup, wasn't terrible. I took it as the red carpet for something bigger.

jbthrash Wrote:

I'm also tired of the argument "Well if they reworked his story then he should stay." The problem with that is they can rework any characters story if the next game. Hell if they tried hard enough they could make the dreaded Hsu Hao become a likable character for MK9.

Maybe a bad character's placement in the story can become likable, but not the conceptual foundation. There is no saving a bad concept. Anyhoo, I'm bit scotched up at the moment, so forgive any typos/errors in this post. I'll check in the morning to make sure I didn't write anything really ridiculous.
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XiahouDun84
03/09/2010 04:56 PM (UTC)
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I feel kind of the same way Temp does about Kung Lao, that it may already be too late for him to assume the role of "main hero."
When looking at his story overall, it would appear everything was building to Deadly Alliance...where, with Liu Kang's death, he'd finally accept it's his responsiblity to defend Earth and save the day. Unfortunately, not only did he lose to Shang Tsung...he was killed, enslaved, and needed to be rescued. And, as if to further hammer home how he can never be Champion, it was Liu Kang who freed him from Onaga after he got beat up by Ermac.

If they want to establish Kung Lao as the next "hero" after Liu Kang, they're going to need to do some serious damage control.

As for Kai, I'm not sure about his being the new "hero" either. But I think if they gave some personality and motivation, they could maybe start building him up for it. Course, they could just as easily kill him off in Armageddon and introduce a new character who could be a potential successor to the Shaolin Champion. Either way, the key thing is they be built up for it and not rushed or forced into the role. That was one of the reasons Shujinko and Taven failed as heroes.
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BIG_SYKE19
03/09/2010 07:11 PM (UTC)
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i think kai should be over the shaolin monks. he should become the main teacher and mentor(take bo rai cho place i think??), just not mk hero. he goes on a quest to find another hero and trains him. liu can be left dead(like great kung lao),come back in an interesting way(no zombies) or become protector of earth(raiden becomes an elder god full time or defeat by liu and banned to netherealm like shinnok).
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Icebaby
03/09/2010 09:19 PM (UTC)
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Kano

A devoted member of the Black Dragon, a mercenary, a thug, an extortionist thief, when defeated Shang Tsung in the first MK game, he brought his own brand of treachery to the tournament. His organization forms a monopoly over the contest that brought shame and torment to all those who were involved. Their reign will end in death and the result in the final dismantling of the tournament and the Battle of the Sans.

Wasn’t until the third game he made another appearance, he was thought to have been killed but he was found alive and escaped his capture by Sonya. He convinces Kahn to spare his life as he needed someone to teach his warriors how to use Earth’s weapons.

Kano’s scheming ideas fooled Kahn as Kano led his arm and nukes them using a stolen weapon. He defeats Kahn and tries to control the spirits that Kahn possessed. The spirits attacked him and was ignorant of the fact that he saved the world that he tried to conquer.

Defeated by Sonya during Kahn’s invasion, (wow what a change in story in Deadly Alliance!) Kahn incarcerated Kano for his failure but then promoted him to general when he prevented the emperor’s assassination in the hands of Sheeva. Kahn ordered Kano to portal the last remnants of Outworld to gather more troops to go against Earthrealm

He remained in Outworld as general of Kahn’s forces. For years he enjoyed commanding the greatest army in Outworld. But Kanh’s power was fading and a chance for Kitana’s forces to take over. Shang Tsung and Quan Chi confronted Kahn and killed him. Kano didn’t interfere. He pledged his allegiance now to the Deadly Alliance

In the end, he didn’t want to be humiliated in the hands of Sonya Blade anymore so the outcome will be different. Kano requested Quan Chi’s amulet by Shang Tsung. Realizing that he is now in control of an undefeatable army, he used the amulet for himself and not giving it to Shang Tsung, he used the army and killed Sonya.



Oh, my, god... he’s certainly one interesting character... NOT!!! His story goes all over the place, and not only that, but his story differs from the ending of the third game and Deadly Alliance. He dies in the third game, and he’s mysteriously alive and was defeated by Sonya instead? Not once was he mentioned that he was dead in Deadly Alliance? Muck! I say he’s got one heck of a lot of cleaning up to do in order to be liked again.

For a character who appeared in only three games before Armageddon, he’s certainly a very good character to take moves from and put them into new, horrible characters. Every single move he has had been taken to a new character. Wow. This character should be the only character who does the flying roll move, who has a laser eye, and should remove a heart from inside of the body. That’s it, other than that, no other character should steal his moves or fatalities.

I liked his appearance in Deadly Alliance. It truly shows that he is a thug alright. I don’t see any change with his appearance.

His story needs to improve. From what we’ve been seeing so far with this character, he’s like a jokable character that’s trying to be evil. He was evil in the first, but then in the third he dies by saving the world he tried to conquer and in Deadly Alliance, he just goes on his own. MK1 was basically the last time we saw him be apart of the Black Dragon, that was it, he did nothing else with his clan in the other two games he was brought in for. I say do something with the clan, or otherwise, what else are you good for?

I don’t know, I don’t really care for this character whether he comes back or not. I never played as him in any of the games so, I have no verdict for this character.

So, let’s debate. Should Kano stay or leave?
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tgrant
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03/09/2010 09:39 PM (UTC)
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Kano should go. I've never liked him. He's constantly around only as motivation (useless and rather irritating motivation I should add) for Sonya to chase him yet again and he is always serving or double crossing someone. He has no redeeming qualities or character about him that makes him appealing or likeable, imo.
I've liked his outfits, special moves and Fatalities in past games but he has nothing else to make me care for him at all. His constantly rubbish story brings him down greatly. You'd think he's have more promising things going for him but he does not. The rivalry with Sonya is all but stale as is the existence of the Black Dragon storyline. The clan really does no one any favours in the series it seems.
As said already, I'd like Kano to go. I would not miss him in the slightest.
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jbthrash
03/09/2010 09:45 PM (UTC)
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Kano: Being an MK icon means a lot to me. Having a bad story I could never follow almost negates his fame. I agree with Icebaby that this guy just doens't make any sense. After MK1 it seemed like he really went down hill. In MK3 his story was dumb, and in MKDA it was practically pointles. The MK team needs to get his story simple and back to basics. He is just a bad ass agent of the black dragon, and he wants power. None of this double crossing b.s.

Recently his interpretation in MKvsDC was awsome. His look was good, and his motives where simple. Not to mention he was one of the few characters that felt really different controls wise. The emphasis on using the Kano ball and counter throws made him a really unique and fun character to use,

Verdict: I'm all about the classics so I say they dumb his story down, and give him a similiar MKvsDC design. STAY.
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XiahouDun84
03/09/2010 09:48 PM (UTC)
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....aarrgghh....this fuck.

Kano was fine for one or two games (even though I didn't even like him then either). He entered the first tournament to rob Shang Tsung's palace which leads to his betraying Earth by serving Shao Kahn in MK3. He fights Sonya in a big dramatic final showdown...she wins...the end.

Why is this asshole still around? They brought him back for Deadly Alliance, revealing he's survived this long due to dumb luck and supposed "cunning." There's no cunning in finding someone stupid enough to trust you and then jumping at whatever random opportunity gets dangled in front of your face...which is exactly what he was doing throughout MK:DA.

I do believe though that Deadly Alliance was meant to be his final game.
He was given a minor accomplishment in holding off the Edenian/Shokan alliance...something, in my opinion, they should've had Baraka do. They introduced Mavado...specifically pointing out in Konquest that he was smarter and more skilled than Kano AND would pose a more significant threat to the Special Forces. He was getting his ass kicked by Li Mei...illustrating that he's past his prime (according to the timeline, he's almost fifty by now, after all). And to top it all off, Quan Chi & Shang Tsung were offering him to Mavado as payment....showing they didn't even have much use for him.

Why is this asshole still around? Okay, they brought everyone back in Armageddon....but now, we're actually calling this piece of shit an "icon" in MK vs. DC? Why are we calling him an "icon?" Why does this schmuck get any recognition? Because he happened to be in the first game...ahhh fuck, here we go again.
There is no need for him. None.

Gone.
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TemperaryUserName
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03/09/2010 09:51 PM (UTC)
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I'll start with the verdict: Gone.

I liked his MKvsDC appearance and his MK3 costume, but beyond that, the thug look just doesn't appeal to me. His laser might have been cool, but for reasons I don't know how to articulate, it just seemed... meh. He has a laser eye. Others have a gun finger or a bazooka leg. I don't really know what reaction Tobias was looking for.

I did get a laugh when Jarek inherited Kano's eye laser fatality despite that he has two very healthy eyes. Wonder how many years it took Jarek to learn THAT.

Though I did enjoy some of his tidbits in Kano's MKDA konquest mode, like how he deceived Sheeva after she defeated Motaro. But none of that is essential to the character. The base for Kano still remains very very boring.

Overall, he's not the worst MK character, but he's definitely my least favorite among the tenured. I'd take Stryker over Kano (though Stryker is aging well for some reason).

EDIT: Oh my, a lot of hate for Kano. The feeling is mutual, but... wow.
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KingofKings97
03/09/2010 10:28 PM (UTC)
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tgrant Wrote:
Kano should go. I've never liked him. He's constantly around only as motivation (useless and rather irritating motivation I should add) for Sonya to chase him yet again and he is always serving or double crossing someone. He has no redeeming qualities or character about him that makes him appealing or likeable, imo.
I've liked his outfits, special moves and Fatalities in past games but he has nothing else to make me care for him at all. His constantly rubbish story brings him down greatly. You'd think he's have more promising things going for him but he does not. The rivalry with Sonya is all but stale as is the existence of the Black Dragon storyline. The clan really does no one any favours in the series it seems.
As said already, I'd like Kano to go. I would not miss him in the slightest.


My thoughts exactly! Gone.
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