Jarek never really got the chance to offend me, because I never played much MK4. It seems that his character was created entirely because they wanted new characters, though. Here are some of my problems with that:

1. This is something that bothers me about new Earthrealm fighters after MK3. Where do they come from? Didn't the best warriors Earth had to offer have their souls sucked from their body by Shao Kahn in MK3's plotline? Now, that might not mean much to some people, and there are ways around it (Kenshi, Mavadao, Kira and Kobra all have excuses, in my opinion). It's just an active character like Jarek that bothers me. Now, maybe he did have his soul saved, and chose not to help -- which adds emphasis to the pressing danger that Shinnok poses when Jarek chose to fight. But the story made no mention of that.

2. Both Kano and Kabal could have done this story so much better. Jarek was pretty much Kano's moveset with a different look and name, anyway. As for Kabal, well, you have to remember that he is not a classic hero. He may have left the Black Dragon, but the Special Forces might still know him for some of his crimes. A re-focused vigilante Kabal running from the Special Forces is very comic book-crossover like, where one hero finds another hero in their part of town, and they have a bit of a squabble over something. Then, when Mavado apparently killed Kabal in MKDA, it would have really gotten behind the point that the Red Dragon was doing something the Special Forces couldn't.

I don't loathe Jarek, but he's pretty much a non-character in the entire saga. In Armageddon, I wish they had just brought him back from the grave, now serving Shinnok having sold his soul, and thus being given some sort of demonic powers to get revenge against the Special Forces. I don't like it when characters always appear to be dead, but then really aren't.

Jarek: I didn't play MK 4 that much, and this guy never seemed that intresting to me. Let me get this straight he's black dragon, he has Kanos moves, and his nemesis is Sonya. He's just Kano with new skin.

Speaking of his looks he looks life crap. I would have never guessed he was black dragon just based on his design. I always pictured Jarek singing in the alps somewhere just by looking at his outfit. And that's not a good thing for a Mortal Kombat character. So the bottomline is he's a Kano clone, he's dumb looking, and everybody on the site says his story is pointless. This is a no brainer.

GONE.

I don't know why the dragon clans keep coming back. It's like more effort is put into the growth and development of the clans and the members are just incidental to it, when it should really be the other way around. If MK4 needed a Black Dragon member who was forced by circumstance to fight on the side of the heroes, why on earth wasn't Kabal just brought back again? That basically just would have been a continuation of his plot from MK3 anyway. And having Sonya and Jax out to kill him would have been a nice wrinkle in the story. But noooooooooo, we get THIS guy instead.

Gone, gone, gone gone gone.

I agree with you CyanFan. Kabal would have been a really nice fit for the Jarek slot. I think a lot of MK3 characters got shafted when it came to MK4. Sheeva and Sindel, for example, could have been there fighting for Edenia while Liu Kang and co. then arrived as back-up. Jade could have even been in there as a playable character. Yeah, "fighting for Edenia" would go on to become a cliched part of the story, but in a game about the immediate future of Edenia. It would allow of lot of these characters to be efficiently killed off after at least two games, or they could have developed more personal stories.

But more on that later. Jarek's problem is that he was essentially a replacement for characters that did not really need replacing. Timing is one of MK's biggest problems, and they keep some characters around for too long, or they take out others too early.

Ah! I'm lagging! I'll try to keep my Jade response short. Jarek, Jarek, Jarek. Jarek is the worst character from the worst MK (though that doesn't make him the worst MK character). But since I'm saving room for Jade, I'll be short and say that my thoughts on Jarek can be summed up in this amazing 80s hit. Jarek = Gone.

I agree with the first part of your post, but I don't necessarily think Kabal should have held Jarek's role. Kabal's alignment was good until his MKD plotline. I just wouldn't have had the role at all, as the Jax/Sonya criminal pursuit just seemed redundant by MK4.

I figured Jarek's character slot should have gone to Smoke, and I'm not just saying that as a fan. Can anyone really argue against Smoke being one of the most popular mk3 characters at the game's release (pre-ultimate at least)?


Jade does have the benefit of flexibility, though. While Kitana and Sindel are stuck as Edenian royalty, Jade could wander her way into a plotline of her choosing. That's kind of why I'd vote yay for Jade but not so much for Kitana/Sindel (though I do like those characters).

But I don't necessarily want to keep her in Edenia, as I think the sentiments on Edenia are unanimous at this point (don't want to blow it up, though). But that doesn't take away her Edenian setup. The setup is her history, her story foundation. She doesn't have to stay in Edenia to embellish that. Her story has such open compatibility: she could join the reformed Lin Kuei, tie into Raiden's story segment, thwart Rain, or even help Nightwolf do... whatever it is that Nightwolf does.

I actually have a lot to say about Nightwolf, but that day will come soon enough.

And also her design is a huge asset, though as I hinted at in my last post, it's kind of hard for me to explain why. Her main costume looks attractive without coming off as a complete whore (Li Mei? But who's complaining), and her alt costume just screams classic MK.

And expect more Carpenter references. I have a pretty big box of 'em.

Yeah, I think that we're just looking at two different sides of the same coin. You think that Jade's flexibility makes her a good character to plug in anywhere, and that's fine. I can both respect that and see the logic in it as well.

My feeling though, and again, this is just me, but I'd like to see MK go in a new direction, so for old characters return, there has to be a reason why old character X deserves a spot at the expense of putting in a fresh new character.

For me, the ability to be put in to any plotline doesn't hold any water for me because a new character can be put in to any plotline as well. Want a new pupil for Sub Zero to train? Done. A new Red Dragon leader because someone mercifully put Daegon out of his misery? Done. Want a 7 armed half egyptian pyramid/half anteater? Well, we might have a disagreement then, but you get my idea.

To me, it still comes back to whether Jade has enough to stand on her own and while I'd like to see her try and do that, I get the feeling that she kind of had that chance with a feud with Tanya and that didn't go over well to me. Not one bit.

Her classic alt in MKD was pretty cool, but I wasn't a fan of her original outfit at all. I'm not saying that she has zero potential, but the fact that she sort of just seems like a lost character that could easily be plugged in anywhere, well, it makes me think that her spot would best be served going to someone new.

Either way though, I wouldn't mind if she came back, but if I were making the list of returnees, I doubt she'd be on it.

Razor...what specimen of scorpion is that? i am lazy to do a search but if you dont know i will.

as for Jarek...i am not going into full details but i never really liked him so i say gone.

I really want to post about all the other characters but I've missed them so I won't but I'll do a quick assessment on Jade and Jarek.
Jade should stay. Though he story up till now has been lacking and revolved too heavily around Kitana and Edenia, I think there is potential to evolve her somewhat moreso than most characters. Cutting her off from the Edenian plotline as others have suggested is a good way to do this. Exploring her background some more would be good and I would like to see if there's anymore history between her and Tanya to continue and extend their feud.
I do hope Jade returns and I love her outfits. I don't understand why her MKD primary isn't liked. I thought it was simple and elegant. Also, her Glow Kick move was original until they gave her Cage's Shadow Kick. I have no idea why they did that but they really need to give her back her original kick move. All that being said, I'd vote Jade to stay.
Now for Jarek. He's a terrible character with nothing going for him except that laugh, maybe. Be gone!

Jarek is so interesting that people are still choosing to discuss Jade, which I'm sure Icebaby will not like. But hey, sometimes silence is a greater indictment than noise.

My only problem with these suggestions for Jade leaving the Edenian plotline is how much she has already given to the storyline. Now, maybe Jade is a lot older than Kitana, and she remembers her homeland. In this case, Jade choosing to serve Shao Kahn is very interesting. Is she a survivalist? Why did she obey an Emperor who took her land the way that he did? Why allow herself to become his faithful assassin? Why betray him in the end? This actually makes Jade a very interesting character to me, if someone turning the qualities associated with her on their head. Loyalty becomes less of an issue with Jade, as does bravery and honour. Suddenly Jade is not patriotic anymore. I mean, it's a way to stretch out her character, and make it warrant exploring -- but I can imagine a lot of people complaining that she was not this heroic figure anymore.

If, however, Jade was in a similar boat to Kitana -- where she didn't really remember Edenia, and serving Shao Kahn was all she knew -- then her interesting decision has already been made. Her decision to betray Shao Kahn to help Kitana gains more weight via this story. She becomes perhaps ever braver than Kitana. Jade doesn't really have anything waiting for her at the end but a fairy tale. Kitana has a castle and a kingdom to rule over. Jade helps her "best friend" chase something that neither of them is even sure exists -- effectively putting our warrants for their deaths. In this story, I just do not see Jade leaving Edenia. She gave up EVERYTHING to chase the realm. Why would she leave it? If she is finding herself or something, that is cool; but I think she would need to be absent from the story. To me, it makes no sense that this version of Jade would remain in orbit of Kitana and not be tied to her.

No idea, I just did a Google image search for "scorpion".

The only problem that I see with some of what you're saying is the fact that alot of what you see as being unanswered happened a long time ago in the series. Why would Jade serve Shao Khan? Is there really even a way to make the answer to that question relevant now for the next game?

I do think that there are ways to separate her from the Edenian storyline. Maybe she falls in love with Kung Lao and she's in Earthrealm when Edenia is destroyed. Granted, that might be a bit close to Liu Kang / Kitana in terms of match making, but you get my drift.

Maybe when Edenia is destroyed, she's racked with guilt and rage over who destroyed her home that she fought so hard for and that fuels her in the next game. The underlying plot here could be her determination for revenge over something she'll never get back and the love she's losing by being so hell bent on revenge... Or something along those lines.

I think that she has potential in that regard, but the problem for me more or less comes from the fact that there isn't alot known about her past to make her an interesting or captivating character going forward. As you said, there's a lot that we don't know about her. But can they really go in to that now? I'm not so sure how deep they can try to make her in one game. To me it seems like you can either go back (which would be difficult) or forward (which would be hard to do without the past).

It's kind of a catch 22.

But back to Jarek... Is his MKA story:

A) The worst in MK history
B) The visual equivalent of watching a moose poop
C) Sad and tragic, like watching the 4 hour Brannagh version of Hamlet
D) Less fun than having a wolverine in your pants

I'm gonna A, B and D for sure, but a little bit of C for all the wrong reasons.

I will not be updating this thread until Monday, I'm going to be out for the weekend and I will not be near a computer all weekend long. So, try to have some debate with this character.

Jax

Introduced in the second MK game, he was trying to find his partner Sonya. He finds her being chained up right next to Kano and the only way for him to free her is if he entered the tournament.

He does so and defeats Kahn and his minions, freeing Sonya, also knowing that Kano has escaped as well.

In the third, we get to see his new arms, trying to tell his soldiers that there is an evil force that is coming, but no one believes him, so it is up for him and Sonya to stop the evil force coming to Earthrealm.

He proves that he is the strongest man in the world by defeating Kahn and creating the Outerworld Investigation Agency and start investigating a new portal.

In the 4th, he returns as he tries to find Sonya again after she disappears trying to find the last Black Dragon member. Knowing that there is a new evil approaching, he must not only find her, but to stop Shinnok.

In one the worst endings ever, he just stops Jarek... I’m just gonna say that.

Deadly Alliance came and he returns working heavily in the underground facitlites of the OIA. He would send his men through the portals. He sent Kenshi and Cyrax through the portal of Outworld and realizes how much of a threat that realm can be to Earth.

He was warned by Kenshi about the new evil, and barely escape with his life when a traitor destroyed everything for inter-realm travel. With Raiden’s help, he made it to Outworld and is on the hunt for Hsu Hao.

He kills Hsu Hao by ripping his cybernetic heart and all is all.

I never cared for Jax, nor do I plan to in the future. He was introduced as the first black character in the game, but they did nothing special for him, and I think having him with metal arms just made things worse with him. He had poor fatalities in the third game, he grew into a giant and he had sword-like hands in the other. Bullshit. Jax has some major redoing before even coming into the next game.

With his story, yes, he’s heavily involved with something that he created, but that’s just it. He has done nothing special, he doesn’t do anything with Kano, that’s more Sonya’s part, but if he works with Sonya, shouldn’t he be also going after Kano as well? Nope, instead, he’s doing something else. Tracking her down, and quite frankly that’s all he does. When he finds her she’s either in trouble or he just gets everything done like that. Everyone has been saying that it would be interesting to see him turn against Sonya, could it be the other way around? Have Jax be the good guy instead of Sonya?

His moves are okay for the most part, it is showing him being a powerhouse.

Get rid of the fucking gangster appeal. That’s so stereotypical for a black guy to look. I hated that they made him look like a thug in Deadly Alliance. His primary was fine, that’s all, but other than that, yuck.

I’m not going too much in depth with this character because I never cared for him whatsoever. I say go, but I have a feeling we might see him return.

So, let’s debate. Should Jax stay or leave?

Ha ha, you make Jax sound like Sonya's stalker lol. In a way, he kind of was, as his story seemed to be searching for her 90% of the time.

I'll just say this.. I LOVED Jax when MK 2 came out. The arm rip fatality and the sound it made, his head pop fatality, the gotcha grab and the midair backbreaker (so what if it looks odd, it's still cool).

Then in MK3, which is yet another reason why I hate this game, they gave him metal arms and purple pants. WTF? A perfectly good character ruined by stilly moves like "blurry arm charge" and "I can apparently turn in to a giant so how could I ever actually lose this tournament when the champion Liu Kang turns in to a freaking arcade cabinet." Or "ICATITAGSHCIEALTTWTCLKTITAFAC" for short lol.

He saw some minor improvemetns in MK4, I guess, though they made his quad slam needlessly difficult to perform. His MK:DA look was good, but he still had the lame metal arms and his moves were so so.

Overall, I could see a future for Jax in a way that I could see a future for Sonya... Get them away from their same ol same ol stale plot and give them something new to do. That idea I had about Sonya becoming a lone wolf spy or assassin? That could work just as well for Jax. However, knowing that Sonya's in the next game again kind of makes me see little point in bringing back Major Briggs.

VERDICT: GONE. Get rid of the cyber arms, the gangster BS, the entire story and then we'll talk. As it stands, that just seems like a lot to overcome for a character that started so great and ended on several low notes. I wouldn't hate it if he returned, but if Sonya's back, then he needs to sit this next one out.

Ugh....Jax.

Believe or not, I actually kind of liked Jax when he first appeared in MK2. I didn't give a shit about his storyline, but I did find him kind of fun to use. That wore off in MK3. Then he got boring and became pretty much Sonya's sidekick. Then by MK:DA, he was not only boring, he got annoying and boring with his stupid gangsta bullshit.

They're hinting a potential "heel turn" for him, but I don't care enough about him and the only real pay-off of Jax turning evil is for Sonya's story...whom I also hate. I've no use.

Go.

Farming statistics are more interesting than Jax. Jarek is a terrible character, but I can laugh at Jarek. Jax just leaves me hollow and numb.

In essence, he's not a bad character, but the fanbase needs a little space from him for a while (Sonya as well). Kung Lao sat out two games, and when we see him again (he's in MK9, I guarantee it), I'll have open arms.

Let's take a break from Jax for a while, and when it's his time to shine again, make him interesting.

For MK9, under all circumstances: Gone.

I've never liked Jax. He was just the token black guy they put in the game to be the 'Balrog' of MK in my eyes. This combined with his rubbish story and then the sudden ghetto stereotypes of his outfits and speech in MKDA destroyed any chance of me ever liking him. I don't like his look. the metal arms are interesting and made him different but they got silyl with how large they made them.
I've never found Jax relevant in the story either. Sure he's apart of the OIA with Sonya but she seemed to be the captain whilst he was the sidekick. Jax never really had any proper development to make me care for him at all and it wasn't until his Deception ending that revelaed his hidden rage that he started to get even a little interesting. That sadly wasn't enough to warrant my full interest in him. Jax is a character I would not miss in the slightest. Get rid of him!

There's really not much I can say about Jax. I liked him in Mortal Kombat II, but after that, it just seemed like he went downhill fast. Story and looks. HE just seems like he's...there. Just to be there. No real relevance. Sorry, Major Jackson Briggs, maybe you need to sit out for a game so they can think of new ideas for you.

i would like him to stay, needs to be greatly imroved though. and it would not hurt if he sat out of a game to.

I was talking with Seanay earlier saying that if Sonya really is gonna be in the next MK game she will bring with her either Jax or Kano.

I really hope it's not Jax as I've just never felt he fit in with the rest of the MK cast.
The whole gangster thing is embarrasing and stereotypical as others have said.
It wasn't too apparent in MK Vs DC as it was in MKDA with the yellow hoodie and bling, that was cringe central.

Having a machine gun doesn't fit in the MK world either and it gives the MK makers the option of using it for a boring fatality by shooting the apponant.
I don't know if its better or worse than turning into a giant and standing on ure victim tho lol.

The only thing I like about Jax is his mechanical arms.
With MK having mechanical cyborgs I dont think they are completly out of place on Jax. They make him more interesting without having to use the gangster thing.

I'm gonna say GO as his story has never interested me and his place could be taken by a more intersting character.

i want him to stay. He has been my favorite character since his debut. I will admit that I only liked him at first because he was black. But as the years past - I began to appreciate him. I LOVE his metal arms; I think it is a very unique feature and makes him stand out. It is his trademark - I really dont get the hate that accompanies his arms. Kitana has fans, Scorpion has a spear, let Jax has his metal arms, jeez... Like the TC mentioned, I admire how he has turned into a "powerhouse" fighter. I didnt like the 50 Cent look in DA, loved his look in MKDC. I hope he makes it. besides MK1 (before he existed), Jax has always been playable if Sonya was. Probability is in his favor :)

I find it very interesting that Jax has not been in a game without Sonya and vice versa since their debuts. Thinking about Jax has made me think of how much he would benefit if he was without Sonya. A Kano vs. Jax fight would actually be quite interesting, just because it has always been Sonya/Kano, Sonya/Kano, Sonya/Kano.

I know we're not talking about whether or not they are likely to come back, but I'm just going to remind everyone that Ed Boon LOVES Jax, and that he is one of the more prolific MK characters there is. He's been in more games than Kung Lao, and they made their debut at the same time. Hell, he's been in more games than Kitana, I believe. Jax has a very good chance of returning. Especially since his darker nature is one of the few leads we have going from one era of Mortal Kombat to another.

To be honest, I actually like this storyline. I remember noticing it when I played Deadly Alliance: The way Jax just rips Hsu Hao's implants out of his body is pretty fucking sick. That's not a dude with his head screwed on right. The anger also goes back to MK3 -- where Jax tries to warn the government that Shao Kahn will be invading, and they laugh him out of the building, so he and Sonya take it upon themselves to be a two-person army.

Sonya vs. Jax would just be one of those win-win situations. Jax would be infinitely more interesting as a "bad guy" who can pretty much just rip a person's arms off and pop their head off their body. Add in some potential insanity elements, and Jax becomes a lot different to how we've seen him in previous games (although it has all been building to this). It also helps Sonya, though, as she would finally have a story that is personal to her. I know she's had Kano, but we've had that since MK1 and other than that, her goal is seemingly to always be a supporting hero. Following Sonya as she confronts a twisted Jax would allow us to see her as the protagonist of her own story. She's lost a commanding officer, a friend, a partner and perhaps even a father figure.

But on the flip-side; if they want to bring back Jax, and keep him as a good guy, then he cannot have the same goals as Sonya. But even if they do change them up (technically Sonya and Jax were doing different things in Deadly Alliance, for example), it will likely still feel that they are attached at the hip if they are both in the Special Forces. I think it's either a case of doing something drastic and daring with Jax, or a case of don't do anything with him at all -- and leave him out of games heading forward. As Jax will very likely be back, I hope it is the former.

Jax went from bland and vaguely stereotypical (the big strong guy? really?) to downright embarrassing pretty fast somewhere between MK4 and DA. I'd rather see no black character at all than a token coatrack to hang every over-the-top stereotype associated with African Americans on. I haven't played MK vs. DC yet, but it sounds like it was a little bit better there. If we see Jax again in the future, I hope he at least has just one personality this time, and not a borrowed one.

Jax: He's the token black guy, and that is the reason everybody hates him. However, that is the reason I like him. I think he is the token black guy done well. With the exception of the MKDA alt. he has never been to stereotypical. He can speak english well, he's a good partner, and a loyal soldier. I think it's good that he is a positve black figure rather than some cocky, rapper, gangsta, scum. I also like his metal arms. That's right I said it. The heroes need a big strong guy to fight the villains big strong guys. As far as his story goes I would like to see it go in a new direction. It is starting to get a little stale. As far his moveset goes I actually like most of his moves, but he may need to omitt some. I like the ground pound, the purple sh*t, and the missle. The machine gun is questionable, and so is the blurry dash. His only bad fatality was the giant one in which case has never made a return. Did anyone else find it odd that his animality was a lion? I figured Jax to either be a Rhino, or Bull. Either those or a black panther.

So any ways Jax STAYS.

I actually kinda liked Jax in MK vs DCU. He was intelligent, he got all his classic moves back, he didn't look stupid (although the vest part of his OIA uniform doesn't look so great), they did him right.

That said, I've been sick of him for years and I'd be glad to see him go. I'd prefer the story to be that he died in Armageddon and we just be done with it, but becoming a villain by either losing his mind to rage or being assimilated by the Tekunin are both potentially on the table and could be interesting, I suppose. Just as long as he's not representing the Special Forces and playing Sonya's sidekick anymore, I'll be happy.
As I've said before, I think Cyrax deserves to take over and be star of the Special Forces plots from now on, with Sonya acting as a commanding officer who relays orders to him and, if she has to be on the playable roster, does so as a hidden character, not part of the main cast.