This.

Meat and Mokap are joke characters.

Hsu Hao was not the first deconfirmed character.

I have never understood why people have different options.


Ffs.

Just kill him and be done with it, Kano rips out his heart in the story mode and finally kills Mavado. Instead of ending the Red Dragon clan he forced someone new to step in, and some new character can take charge. I think the red dragon can be used more, the current people associated with it though were lackluster and should not be brought back as playable character's. IF they were ever to make them return, make them NPC's who die and never return.

I like the idea you threw out here, but he would need a major costume change, because I cant see him acting like that in his current attire.

^ I like this explanation.

Like all those new characters from MKD, most of them we don't need to see again. We encountered them because we were exploring new realms. So we met some of the characters from those realms and saw their stories. Right now, or at least in MK9, the only realms really involved in the story are Outworld and Earthrealm. Edenia and the Netherrealm are kinda hanging out in the background too though. Unless the story takes us to Orderrealm and Chaosrealm again, we don't need to see those characters. The way it looks to be going is Earthrealm and Outworld again. Netherrealm could possibly have a bigger role this time too. Who knows what's going to happen with Edenia.

PS: sorry this didn't really have anything to do with Hsu Hao, but I thought it kinda fit with the discussion. Or at least it started out that way.

In that case, why don't we retire every character that died in MK9, since their stories also came a close with death?

Or is there some sort of exception to the rule (i.e., characters people like)?



His story came to an end in the old timeline. In this new one, he can be reinvented, like many others.

You know what? It's not impossible. Maybe you're on to something.

The tweet is why I created this thread, clearly, as it is in the opening post.

If you're going to post in the thread, please have some sort of constructive input.

If you're going to post a derivative thread think about reading the original first. The link is a reference to a reinvention described in the original article. This is constructive input (that was just already posted elsewhere).

I like Hsu Hao. I like the idea of revamping Hsu Hao.

Here's my problem:









You've just described every MK villain ever.

None of this makes him interesting or stand out.

This specific character trait, "make him sound more violent!", is the first generic tactic people always seem to default to whenever they have no ideas how to make people like a character more and it rarely ever fits. Hell, Armageddon tried it with more than one dude at the same time. And the whole time, I'm thinking "you depict Reiko in a cutscene as this charming, civil guy who's all calm and pretentious and whose greatest strength is strategic thinking, which is super-interesting...but then in his bio tell us he was chosen to be general because of his "brutality"? Fuck that. If Kahn wanted brutality, he could get that from Shokans, Centaurs, Baraka, and Kano."

Hsu Hao's preexisting story of a guy who willingly submitted to a process that robbed him of his emotions and feels nothing for anything like a cold, uncaring robot was more interesting because it was different from everybody else. (Except maybe Sektor and Cyrax, but Hsu isn't full robot like they are and they both got over it)

Personally, I would just find a way to focus more on the fact that he's the Anti-Jax. That's the most interesting thing about him. They're both a big bulky ethnic minority with bionic parts that enhance their ability to do pro-wrasslin' moves, that's how they're similar...now find all the other traits you can add that would make them opposites. Look at what kind of person Jax is and invert that. Make him the Venom/Black Adam/Sinestro to Jax's Spider-Man/Shazam/Green Lantern.

Because their stories aren't over. They're set up to be used as Shinnok's army for whatever he thinks he's going to do. After MKX, who knows. But slowly phasing out characters and bringing a natural end to their stories is something NRS should have done post MKD.

Kano pretty much stole his only role in the story. There's just no point.

Is that really embellishing the most unique thing about Hsu Hao, though?
Isn't that just another example of a cliché revamp that's a first stop on the list? One that could arguably be used more effectively with other characters! Tremor - for arguments sake - actually already operates as a burly, ground pounding counterpart to Jax. He's got some other color in his backstory going for him. That could dress the counterpart gimmick up a bit more interesting than Hsu Hao, who would be going from one slightly under done premise to a different one.

Hsu Hao submits himself to Red Dragon science with no regard for himself. In his first appearance - he's fatally wounded. So lean into that idea and the disdain the fanbase have taken to him. Make the weakness a strength. Kill him off - again and again. He's dead. So the Red Dragon patch him up, stitch him together, and send him out to do it again. And he's killed again in the next go around. So the Red Dragon bolt him back together and send him out again.

It's an embellishment that is something MK doesn't already have (patchwork Frankenstein), revamps the character in all respects (visually, too), and leaves simple alternatives to other characters who might get more out of it.

No right or wrong answer. Food for thought, though.

RE:

I already read your segment regarding Hsu Hao; please do not refer to your post as the original, as I did not base my thread off of yours.

In terms of this thread, I ask that you wish to continue, please comment constructively. I do not wish for any further derailment, including retorts. I also apologize for my own.



I don't recall any character being confirmed to take actual sadistic pleasure in killing others.

If you have proof of otherwise, please show me.

I like him better than any new characther for MK:A.

But Tremor still doesn't REALLY exist. Unless MKX surprises us, I suspect he'll for the time being remain the kind of character you can expect to see in the challenge tower or not at all, not in the main roster.

Anyway, the Frankenstein approach isn't a bad one...but I don't like the idea of any character dying repeatedly like a running joke because I'm against anything that encourages the "nobody stays dead in Mortal Kombat" thing to keep becoming more and more of a ridiculous meme that robs stories of dramatic tension and prevents characters and the consequences of their actions from being taken seriously.

If a character is going to come back from the dead, then it should happen ONCE ever, and coming back should result in a major, permanent change like how Scorpion went from man with no powers to fire demon, and Bi-Han became Noob Saibot.

On that same train of thought, the only MKA ending I liked was Hsu Hao's, about him dying, going to Hell, and his lack of emotion causing him to transform into an Oni of "desolation", just like how Drahmin's pain turned him into an Oni who tortures others. I wouldn't mind seeing that actually happen.

Another suggestion for a still-living Hsu Hao that comes to mind is I'd like to see how his bionics actually improve him as a fighter, like I think it would be interesting if he had a mechanic similar to Bane where he can use the heart reactor to supercharge and make his veins glow and his muscles bulge.

Without even thinking about it, Sektor's MK9 bio immediately came to mind.

"What pleases the Grand Master is the degree to which his son relishes the life of an assassin. The secretive clan allows Sektor to express his darker nature, using any means necessary to complete his tasks."

It's also always been a big part of Bi-Han's characterization that he never spares anyone, he takes lives without mercy as often as he possibly can, whether he has a good reason to or not, and that's the big difference between him and Kuai who only kills when the mission requires it. I guess you could argue that doesn't mean Bi-Han "enjoys" it, he might just think it's more efficient, but he's still behaving like a fucking sociopath and that's why he likes being Noob Saibot.

Kobra's Deception bio is entirely about a man who gets addicted to the thrill of taking lives. (Boy, describing a guy who looks like a cross between Ken from Street Fighter and the punk kid villain from Karate Kid as an edgy grimdark serial killer sure worked out great for his popularity, didn't it?)

Baraka and especially Mileena enjoying killing should be obvious without quoting.

If I actually spent time on it, I could come up with more.

You could argue having characters die and return repeatedly would diminish the individuality of the FrankenHao gimmick/running joke, so you could also argue its an endorsement for putting a stop on that for other characters. Which, yes, would be nice just in general. I don't know that it supports a revolving door death policy anymore than they already have, but I understand the sentiment.


Not my favourite beat, but it's always nice to see them move forward and use the material they've already been dropped. Could be interesting to see how he might be redesigned. Would hope they could avoid the pitfalls of both those references, though -- Hsu Hao and Drahmin.

Any ideas about how that concept would best get him back into the fight? Is there an inbuilt hook?


Could be fun! I dig it! (Could work with FrankenHao, too!)

Well Drahmin and Moloch's designs deliberately drew on pretty much all the common traits or tropes of Japanese Oni - using an iron club, one is red and one is blue, one is angry and one is calm...

So you pretty much HAVE to go a different direction with any new Oni you invent afterward. It certainly wouldn't make sense for Hsu to be a skinned carcass either since Drahmin took 500 years of torture to get that way.

And lest we forget, Quan Chi is an oni too and looks nothing like the other two.



Well that pretty nebulously depends on whatever plots you introduce him, kill him off, and re-introduce him in, but the Red Dragons do already have strong ties with Shinnok in MKA, it wouldn't be much of a leap for Daegon to get dead men back...or more interestingly, for a variation of Armageddon's plot retold in the new timeline to end with Daegon himself banished to the Netherealm by his father for turning against the family, and rebuilding his power base down there.

I don't get why Hsu Hao is dumped on so badly.

He's a Mongolian fighter basically wearing the military uniform without the jacket. He has the heart condition and has the cybernetic thing keeping him alive and even has jaundice because of it! I thought his look was pretty cool and unique. He looked very menacing and powerful, yet vulnerable.

His sun moon weapons were awesome! And I liked his specials. He had one of the best fatalities in MK:DA! Maybe people just couldn't figure out how to us him? I had a great time playing as him!

I thought he was a great new addition, especially over Frost and Bo Rai Cho. I think they were way worse.

But I guess that's why I'm a fan of the lesser established characters. I've never really fallen in line with everyone else when it comes to MK, haha.

I really like Hsu Hao!

Ehh...I think his color is more of a slightly cartoonish/unintentionally racist rendering of a typical Mongolian-Chinese skintone.
Also, I would not so easily discount the value of Bo' Rai Cho to the franchise. Yes, the execution wasn't what it should have been and Ed and co. like fart jokes way too much...but in a fighting game, or anything trying to capture the feel of classic kung fu movies really, you GOTTA have the elderly teacher archetype in there somewhere, and you always oughtta have a Drunken Master, and he's both.

I don't see why he needs to be brought back for MKX. He'd be better suited for a game that centers on the conflict between Special Forces, Black Dragon and Red Dragon.

Like, I get and respect the idea that he's the anti-Jax, but even if Jax gets in this game, I severely doubt Jax is going to be a major character within the story (unless he becomes Cassie caretaker during her childhood or something). Granted, we need more story info, but the direction this story is going, having a Jax and Hsu conflict doesn't really work.

Before I review, please allow me to inform you that sadism is an extreme sexual pleasure in causing pain to others.



This does not specify that Sektor is a sadist.



This does not specify that Bi-Han is a sadist. Guessing is not validity.



This does not specify that Kobra is a sadist. He may have gotten a thrill out of killing, an adrenaline rush if you will, but that is far from sadism.



This does not specify that they are sadists.




With this, I will reiterate that I don't recall any character being confirmed as a sadist. Again, if you have proof of otherwise, please show me.

As for the concept, I actually must admit that I am surprised no one has yet to be revealed as a sadist, especially Mileena, who is the likeliest of all characters. Nevertheless, I dare say Hsu Hao being a sadist would be good for him. People already dislike him, and that hatred isn't going to fade. With this, that hatred will be channeled towards Hsu Hao murdering innocent people for the sake of getting off rather than him being a shitty character.

Actually, I had an additional thought that in this sense, Hsu Hao having to flea the facility before it was destroyed displeased him greatly, as he was not able to see anyone suffer and die. Luckily, with the knowledge that there were a few survivors, Hsu Hao vowed to find them and get his fill, and further vowed it will make up for all the people he didn't see die.

Indulging in this particular sexual desire is what places him in trouble with Mavado for the very first time.

I kicked a lot of ass with him in MK:DA. He was one of my mains. Bring him back and give him his MK:DA fight style.

You have narrowed the definition of the word to fit a personal bias...but I will play along for the sake of argument.

1) Assigning this trait to a male character who looks like one of the Village People is not going to make him more mainstream-popular. It is, in fact, likely to have the opposite effect.

It might work if you were writing anime/manga for a Japanese audience, but you're not.

In short, if you're going to gross folks out by taking S&M out of private bedroom roleplaying and into criminal violent bloodletting territory, do it with a woman, a "handsome" guy, or a monster like Pinhead from Hellraiser, not a grappler with a mustache and a police hat.

2) I disagree that it's untrue of Mileena. She talks about violence in a sexually flirtatious tone and is making arousal-noises during battle almost constantly in MK9. Violence making her horny is surprisingly blatant to my eyes. How much do you need something spelled out for the lowest common denominator to understand before you accept it as canon?

3) It's still the exact opposite of the established Hsu Hao, whose artificial heart robs him of personal desire and emotion.

SOME level of alteration to improve a character is fine. A complete 180 that makes them nothing like the original is unjustifiable. It would be much more efficient and more successful to make a completely new character entirely that fits your concept or find a character that it DOES fit, rather than graft your concept onto a character it does not fit.