I think 50/50 would be cool. ASSUMING there is 24 characters not including DLC, I think 12 old and 12 new would be perfect, for me anyway.

Then again my favorite character (and 3 others I like a lot) are already in, so more new is fine too, I just hope the rest of the new characters are epic.

You know that I'm referring to new characters completely and not returning characters when I say descendants right?

A fair ratio of both would be logical if it weren't for the fact that so many main characters were killed off. Who's left to even have descendants besides Johnny/Sonya and maybe Baraka/Mileena?

Like, I'd love to see a Liu x Kitana offspring, but they're both fucking corpses, so how would that even happen unless this game devotes part of its story to undoing shit they, as far as I can tell, seem PROUD of having done in the last game?

no. Do not let this become your run-of-the-mill manga pairing fest. The whole concept of offspring already seems off to me. At least Cassie Cage had precedent in MK9.


And do not let me start on how pointlessly shoed in the Kang/Kitana romance is on the trails of the movie. Romance iws not necessary in MK, and it's inclusion does not add depth or complexity to the plot. infact you just cement the standard Hollywood misconception that a story needs a romance plot in between it's protagonist and deuteragonist.

The constant battlecry of those who do not understand basic storytelling.
There is no "misconception" just because some people are of the personal opinion (which I suspect may or may not be biased by an embittered lack of personal success in the dating arena, but that would probably be an unfair accusation) that mainstream Hollywood lacks variety. There are only tropes and proper and improper ways to use them.

It NATURALLY FIT the progression of Liu Kang and Kitana's narratives and character development to be attracted to one another. They were designed from the very beginning by Tobias to be compatible.

Edit: Nothing to see here... just an accidental triple post...

Edit: And something fucked up... accidentally triple posted! :S

I don't want more descendants... The whole "they had a child"-thing just seems forced if several characters do that. One character like that, being Cassie, is good enough.

I would prefer more original characters who have no blood ties to the former characters, however, they can still derive from the same races... We could have another Tarkatan who isn't necessarily a Baraka clone, we could have a new Edenian, new Earthrealmers etc...

Don't wanna see any more descendants really. Cassie's enough. She makes sense. A monster child between Baraka and Mileena wouldn't. And they are only ones that would make the least amount of sense still.
Can you imagine Tarkata childbirth? With those blades?? Don't even wanna think about it

No more descendants hopefully (especially not a Liu/Kitana one).

I admire your balls to tell that to someone who actually lectures on and produces literature in such a way. Actually it is quite nice to do so. Two points, I trust you can get to the point by exercising your higher creative functions:

- > a story is not written or complete when you have added everytyhing you can to it, it is finished when there is nothing more to remove.

- > is the part/romance relevant to the overall product (NOT THE STORY, THE END RESULT!), does it achieve anything inside or outside the corpus *(body of work) or is it just superfluous information without purpose?


The rest is too long, PM me if you are interested in my reasoning.

Doing a thing and being good at it are two different things.

Example: IGN and Kotaku writers call themselves "journalists".

But if you really wanna send me that PM, I'll listen...but I can already almost guarantee I won't agree because we seem to have completely diametrically opposed ideas about the relevance story has to the final product. (I suspect you'd argue it has none since, as a game, the most important thing is that the narrative justifies the gameplay. However, since I have a on-the-fringe motivation for being a fan of this franchise, I play MK EXCLUSIVELY FOR the narrative, I consider how integrated the gameplay is to be a secondary concern, and fear of adaptation-decay/distillation is the ONLY reason I don't constantly advocate the idea that MK should more often be adapted in a passive medium so that it could blossom into something more elaborate. The story IS the product to me, and I feel it NEEDS to be much more in-depth and varied in the kinds of character interactions depicted than it has been to date or else it isn't justifying its very existence.
tl;dr: Why have a story where characters interact with each other like human beings would, if you're not going to cover one of the most BASIC fucking angles of social interaction?)

More original!

I fail to see such a thing in MKII or UMK3...where was this?

You might try Kitana's MK2 bio, Liu's MK3 ending, Liu's MK4 bio, Liu's MK4 ending, and Tobias's publicized MK1 dev notes about "Kitsune".
Shao Kahn was only defeated in MK2 because Kitana played mole and Liu was the Earthrealm warrior she allied with (note that it very specifically says she meets with A warrior, not THE warriors. Singular. Gee, I wonder...if you saw Johnny Cage, Jax, and THE CHAMPION show up to kill your evil stepdad, which of those three guys would you conspire with?) From there you get to Kitana showing up (in the ONLY appearance she makes in the original MK3) to thank him for helping free Edenia from Kahn, to him jumping to her rescue when Shinnok kidnaps her, to her proposing fucking marriage. And if that somehow doesn't demonstrate the intent of the person who created those two characters, in all of the games where he alone was the writer, the notes show a romantic motivation was implied, or intended to be, from the very moment of the Kitana character's inception, the REASON for her creation was to fit a classical "bad guy's daughter falls for good guy" archetype.
It's also a matter of historical record that the WHOLE REASON it was in the movie was because he and Ed had creative consultant roles (the serious kind, not the lip service kind) because Kassanov and Anderson are on record as having genuinely intended the first film to follow the lore as much as they could make work in the different medium.

You should had just mention the Tobias notes and that's it.
Because nothing is mention in Kitana's MKII bio nor heavily implied in Liu Kang's MK3 ending. Which is why I questioned it to begin with.

And coincidentally, the relationship happen after the movie which I was going to quickly ignore anything said AFTER MK3.

So...now...knowing that the love interest was originally the idea that later became real, it's very hard to swallow this cliche'. How do I wish this wasn't true, it's a personal pet peeve of mine...heh.

That's an outright falsehood and I already explained how. She's IN Liu's MK3 ending! She's literally ON-SCREEN. It's her ONLY on-screen appearance in the pre-Ultimate version of MK3. (unless you count the picture of her as a child in Sindel's, I suppose)
Do I also have to point out to you the places in the NON-Tobias games that acknowledge they had a relationship that literally everyone who's ever been an MK fan knows is CONFIRMED CANON by now? Because Deadly Alliance has at least two, Deception has at least two, Nightwolf's Armageddon bio fucking has one. Shaolin Monks has flirting and MK9 depicts it outright in dialogue, albeit in a "what a tragedy, it never consummated because Raiden changed history and got them killed" manner.
Or should we just stick with the "What Tobias intended at time of creation" angle? 'Cause I feel like that was already finished and I'm just being mean for no reason right now, but constantly having to explain to people how canon this fucking relationship is when she literally asked him to marry her in an FMV that came out 15 years ago drives me insane and hell, I could POST the note if you've never seen it.

Academia so far is satisfied with me. As for my incursions into literature, that remains to be seen. PM will be sent eventually.

Just because it is a basic part of life, it does not mean it must be spent on. I find the idea especiallz worrysome as the situation in which it develops is fundamentally contrary to it's support (keeping a clean head, basically they are in a covert war/outright war depending on the two timelines) and it's stock. Why should they fall in love?


I will give you an example - > Warhammer 40K. There are billions people on the death toll DAILY in the imperium, but yes, there are relationships in the Imperial guard (as Space Marines are genetically incapable of love).

Take an example from the Ciaphas Cain series: there is a lesbian pair in a women's detachment under his command. Their love is stated, but not particularly dwelled on, because it adds nothing to the narrative or the world.

The question is then - > how necessary is it to the overall intention or end result? I find the extent in MK to be overly melodramatic (moreso than needed) and futile.

Though I must admit, you made me second guess myself. I think Talisa Soto and the movies might be partially responsible for me being against the idea.

I know you love Warhammer but I'm pretty sure it's not relevant in comparison, on account of, as I understand it, the main plot is about huge armies of mostly-nameless-and-faceless soldiers waging an ACTUAL war, like the conventional kind with battlefields and shit.

Whereas Mortal Kombat is about individuals in small groups who have interpersonal relationships and conflicts. That's why romance fits the setting, because it's not all battle all the time and the people involved have multidimensional personalities and elaborate emotional connections to one another. (Or at least, they're SUPPOSED to, disappointing recent entries notwithstanding.)
My overarching point would be that Mortal Kombat (until approx. Shaolin Monks) was a CHARACTER-driven story, not a plot-driven one.
---
Let me also make the following clear: Soto and Shou sucked. I would not debate you that the movie did a poor job of making the idea appealing. When I ask for the games to be more overt with character relationships, I am NOT asking for them to be like the movies. The movies depicted two very stiff and inexperienced (or perhaps just untalented) actors, playing characters fundamentally unlike the ones from the source material, who just kind of made eyes at each other in between exposition and then he puts his arm around her at the end. Johnny and Sonya in the same movie is a more positive example, though.
In this respect, MK9 did far better though it loses points for making Kitana a clueless damsel needing rescuing rather than a secret-rebel inspired to drop her cover by the arrival of a dude who could legit beat Kahn. And for, y'know, eschewing an actual resolution in favor of playing up the tragic untimely death angle.

Without mentioning Tobias notes.
Without mentioning anything after MK3.
Just imagine that MKII and MK3 was the only game source to go by.

Explain to me again, out of these, how that it hints a love relationship?

I'll grant you that if you completely remove MK2 and 3 from all the other games, and the movies, and the cartoon, and anything John Tobias has ever said in an interview or written on OUR side of the 4th wall...

...then yes, any "love interest" status is unsupportable. It's clear they have interacted with one another and are friends or allies, but anything more would have been speculation...AT THAT TIME.

But that's the point of all the context I included. What happened in ALL of the later games and the adaptations and what Tobias has revealed over time about his intentions makes it retroactively clear what he was trying and perhaps failing to imply with Kitana's MK2 bio and Liu's MK3 ending.
That's how the ENTIRETY of MK canon works. The first couple games were super-vague and the later games filled in the fuckin' blanks.

Liu Kang and Kitana never had a relationship in the games. But they had a connection and Liu Kang's MK4 ending undoubtedly established that there were romantic ties. Kitana asks him to marry her and become the king of Edenia! Unless Kitana is a heartless bitch who just sees Liu Kang as the most logical specimen to join forces with, there would indeed be some romantic emotions between them.

MK2 and MK3 happens within a very short timespan, so I doubt Liu Kang and Kitana immediately fell in love and started making babies. But the connection between them was suggested quite clearly in the games.

After Re-reading. I see the misunderstanding. I understand now. Carry on.

No more descendants please.

Now, to resume enjoying the Chrome v Razor battle over who can be the most patronizing to each other and throw the most internet dick around.

"I suspect its due to a lack of personal success in dating"
"Interesting you say that to someone who lectures in literature"

Please continue gentlemen, its very entertaining