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Aquarius_D
07/24/2015 06:34 AM (UTC)
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Yeah I'm put off by many things in this game as well...and this is the first time I felt like selling off one of my MK games. Which is heartbreaking coz 23 years of being a fan is a long time. Granted the game is graphically superior and fun to play. Here a my reasons for being upset:

1. It doesn't feel like an MK game some how. MK9 nailed it for me. Everything was really good, the designs stayed true to MK. Now its all toned down shit and realistic proportions and twiggy looking ermacs and boring real life designs. I don't want realism in MK dagnabbit.

2. Faction Wars & Dynamic Towers Krap. I was hoping for a full meaty tower like in MK9 or Injustice Star Labs modes.

3. I love how the did cutscenes in the story mode just that the story itself was its own undoing. Should have renamed the game to MK Special Forces 2. Oh and Soldiers frolicking around in the netherrealm like it was in their backyard is hilarious grin

4. Bullshit mobile app what won't unlock anything on console after throwing so much of my time and money to play the game like an idiot. Not even ninja mime till this day furious

5. Shady DLC and microtransaction scams. Though they have given free DLC like the fatality packs which was nice. Charging people so much for the Kombat Pack itself was a ripoff. Which is why I didnt buy it. Don't get me started on the krypt prices and little currency you get for playing the game. Its atrocious. I remember having so much fun during MKDA and Deception where we would get koins and be able to unlock a ton of awesome stuff at a decent rate and it was fun. We would get videos, character profiles, and more cooler stuff than what we're getting now. Plus the unlockable characters were on the disc, not withheld and charged for later. They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money. The same stuff is going on with Arkham Knight. I avoided that game completely. Maybe I'll get the GOTY version of that one instead. Would have done the same with MKX if not for the inner fanboy in me.

6. EASY FATALITIES??? WTF??? NRS has sunken down to a new low. But the worst part is charging people for it wow

Maybe Rayden should go back in time and undo this travesty that is MKX sad
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SmashK
07/24/2015 06:53 AM (UTC)
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TC, I disagree with you on so many of your points, but I might not follow the pre-hype train again (from initial announcement to launch) next time too. But my reasons are different.

I'm still very disappointed in how NRS handled the flow of information during pre-launch. We had that awful 3 month information drought from October till January. Then, after the info started to flow in January, they pulled back again for the whole month of February with no new character reveals. It was very, very frustrating to get so little news on a game we were all so excited for.
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FROST4584
07/24/2015 02:48 PM (UTC)
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Nevermind
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b-rad007
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"JOHNNYBOUGHTACAR"-Raiden, protector of Earthrealm

07/24/2015 03:01 PM (UTC)
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SmashK Wrote:
TC, I disagree with you on so many of your points, but I might not follow the pre-hype train again (from initial announcement to launch) next time too. But my reasons are different.

I'm still very disappointed in how NRS handled the flow of information during pre-launch. We had that awful 3 month information drought from October till January. Then, after the info started to flow in January, they pulled back again for the whole month of February with no new character reveals. It was very, very frustrating to get so little news on a game we were all so excited for.
this was the only real problem I had was the horribly slow drip of information. They really need to be more consistent with details and information next game.that and jason, he shoulda just stayed home.
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petrcech
07/24/2015 04:09 PM (UTC)
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MKX is arguably the best MK game ever created.

However, I do agree with the OP that the story in this game is poor. MK has always had a rich and deep story in most of the games. During the 3D era, the games had a horrible fight engine and were overall bad, but no one ever complained about the story during that era because it was amazing.

Now, here we have an incredible MK game known as MKX with the best fight engine, variations, character designs, and other features that make this game the most enjoyable to play. However, NRS completely blew it on story mode. I understand that they were trying do something new, something fresh that would expand the story, but IMO it didn't work.

MKX story had the potential to be the greatest of all time with all the new technology NRS has available. In the end, I think the story mode mode was successful for new fans of the series, but those of us who have been following MK's rich story were left completely disappointed.
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lanoitarnu
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What

07/24/2015 04:11 PM (UTC)
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Aquarius_D Wrote:

5. Shady DLC and microtransaction scams. Though they have given free DLC like the fatality packs which was nice. Charging people so much for the Kombat Pack itself was a ripoff. Which is why I didnt buy it. Don't get me started on the krypt prices and little currency you get for playing the game. Its atrocious. I remember having so much fun during MKDA and Deception where we would get koins and be able to unlock a ton of awesome stuff at a decent rate and it was fun. We would get videos, character profiles, and more cooler stuff than what we're getting now. Plus the unlockable characters were on the disc, not withheld and charged for later. They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money. The same stuff is going on with Arkham Knight. I avoided that game completely. Maybe I'll get the GOTY version of that one instead. Would have done the same with MKX if not for the inner fanboy in me.

6. EASY FATALITIES??? WTF??? NRS has sunken down to a new low. But the worst part is charging people for it wow

Maybe Rayden should go back in time and undo this travesty that is MKX sad


The Kombat Pack was overpriced but it's still only $5 per character which is fine. You get a fine amount of coins in this game for the krypt. It's pretty easy to earn coins and only gets easier the more you play.

"They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money". Yea, that's how DLC works, they plan the characters they are going to make as DLC and then make them after the game goes gold. Would you actually rather they just never make any DLC and let the game die? These type of complaints just make me think you're dumb. Who gives a fuck about easy fatalities?
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MindStrikes
07/24/2015 04:17 PM (UTC)
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redman Wrote:
MK9 did a good job at rejuvenating the franchise and brought a lot of the old fans back, but the transition from MK9 to MKX was just too big imo. They feel so different and they changed a lot of the things that I felt didn't need to be changed. I agree with you on factions as well, they were a complete waste of development time. They add NOTHING to the game.

The story has gotten worse for the most part with these two games, and it's undeniable. The presentation of the games has been amazing, but with the cost of telling a good story. I'm not going to bother with giving a shit about the story anymore after this game because it's obvious that NRS has stopped caring about it. I feel like they're trying too hard to make a story that will be easy to understand and appeal to the casuals. At the same time they throw in a few 3D era characters as cameos for the "hardcore" fans to show that they actually remember that they fucking exist.

Gameplay is better in this game, but the balance hasn't been very good at all. Variations obviously aren't working as intended, so many characters have useless variations that haven't been addressed yet. Gunslinger Erron Black, Spectral Ermac, Ruthless Ferra/Torr, the list goes on. It just seems like a gimmick that I hope doesn't come back for the next game. I do like some aspects of the variations, but I would prefer if they fine-tuned it or narrowed it down to 2 variations instead of three. I believe the gameplay is a step in the right direction with MKX, but it does need some fixing.

DLC - two guest characters, 'nuff said.

The Online - absolutely atrocious. This might be the reason that I don't buy the next MK. It's 2015 and we still don't have a good functioning online. Xbox One players can barely even connect to the fucking servers. This should honestly be their #1 priority for the next game, but I bet we will still have the same issues honestly. They have no incentive to fix anything because people will still buy it.



Perfectly spoken, defenit agree with this.

Such a shame, now that most fans think alike about mkx i hope to see some changes in the future MK games.
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frabn
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Well, you all got your Tremor now. Can we finally move on?

07/24/2015 04:23 PM (UTC)
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It's funny OP that you bring up Deadly Alliance and following through from beginning to end.

Deadly Alliance was the first game in the franchise that the team spoiled absolutely EVERYTHING about months prior to release. By the time I got Deadly Alliance in my hands, which was on launch day, I was bored within 3 hours. The AWFUL fatalities, the stiff animations and gameplay, the lack of content...I enjoyed the overall story to the game, but by the time the game was in my hands it already felt OLD. It was clear that despite the years they spent working on it, they simply were not prepared for the transition to 3D. It was the "3D era" that really started the downward spiral for Mortal Kombat.

Deception somewhat rectified this - better gameplay and fatalities, stage fatalities (kind of) brought back, characters that hadn't been seen in a decade returned, Konquest mode (as tedious and boring as it was), it was the return of the feature-packed MK of years past. Then Armageddon came with its crappy fatality system, overabundance of characters that all played too similarly, unbelievably crappy endings...I was done. MK v DC made me a believer - they put a shit ton of effort into that, which cemented their partnership with WB. Then MK9 came along...

Here's the point I'm making - the greater majority of the fans on this page probably all had their jumping on point with MKDA. It was a poor example of MK to get started with and yet many people jumped on it. Most "legacy veterans" like myself, who were pumping quarters in to MK in the arcades in 1992, don't frequent this site anymore...there's very few of us. I've actually been part of this community since it was created (under a different name which I no longer use). Hence when people call me out on why I hate the Tremor fanatacism and all that, remember - I've been here since this place was a Gamers.com message board, and I've seen how stupid the fandom gets.

Right, back to the point - following the game all the way through from announcement to release is a BAD idea. By the time the game rolls around, it's OLD. And the internet isn't even to blame - YOU are. YOU can control how much content you see. YOU can control spoilers. YOU can control the information. Me? I just didn't come to any mk fan sites. If someone posted MK info on my facebook wall, I block the post.

In the end, with MKX - I was still very disappointed with the story. The direction they were taking in the comic was much more interesting. When I realized the comic and the game weren't really synching up, I abandoned the comic, but by then it was too late. I was already exposed to a better setup in the comic, and the way the story was presented in the game (albeit with GREAT production values) was not interesting.

I didn't know the entire roster. I didn't know how to do Brutalities (or that they existed) until launch day. I didn't know the Kombat Pack content until I loaded up MKX at 11:30pm on Monday, April 13th (Central US got it at 11pm). I had not seen any fatalities. Everything was a surprise. I was happy with practically everything in the game, except the roster and the disappointment with story mode.

You control the amount of content that you see prior to release. If you feel like they are "Trying too hard" with Fatalities, and that the Krypt was a disappointment, and everything else you mentioned, then you do need to evaluate - are you outgrowing MK? Or are you expecting too much? Or did they overpromise and underdeliver? You are doing yourself a favor - you will be less disappointed with the next entry if you do not follow MK news as closely. I learned my lesson after Deadly Alliance. Hopefully you've learned yours with MKX. Don't give up on it yet.
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oracle
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-sig by MINION

07/24/2015 04:51 PM (UTC)
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Oop @ me loving the story in this game. The roster too but I'm clearly biased af. I was pleasantly surprised by MKX because I wasn't feeling it when it was revealed. It's not the perfect MK game but it's the best MK we ever had.

Going to echo KM16's sentiments about if anything the story needs to be longer so they can focus on more characters. Fans are clearly miffed about some characters being playable with a comparatively small story presence but that's an easy fix.

In general I like the roster excluding Ferra/Torr and Goro the latter of whom I think is only in the game because NRS think we need a monster sub-boss.

I'll still follow the development of MK games but ill never buy another WB game at launch. Just not worth it with all the content /patches you get in the GOTY editions.
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Borshay
07/24/2015 04:51 PM (UTC)
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There are some very valid complaints. The mess that is the Krypt currency, the online, useless featurs like Faction Wars (which makes little sense to me), story mode, character selection. Variations being more of a nuisance than a draw to some.

Im really enjoying the game and I would be more so if I actually liked the characters in the game.

In some ways MKX is disappointing, but the best gameplay and character designs in 10 years really help make up for that.
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frabn
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Well, you all got your Tremor now. Can we finally move on?

07/24/2015 05:19 PM (UTC)
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I will absolutely agree on these points -

The microtransactions - a travesty

Goro as day 1 disc locked content, occupying a regular roster slot - unforgivable

The nerfing of Koins - annoying, and shameful that it was done to drum up more interest in the $20 "Unlock the Krypt" BS.

There were many faults with the game.
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lanoitarnu
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What

07/24/2015 05:39 PM (UTC)
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frabn Wrote:
I will absolutely agree on these points -

The microtransactions - a travesty

Goro as day 1 disc locked content, occupying a regular roster slot - unforgivable

The nerfing of Koins - annoying, and shameful that it was done to drum up more interest in the $20 "Unlock the Krypt" BS.

There were many faults with the game.


I don't understand this. The microtransactions for easy fatalities, who cares? It's not like it's something anyone actually needs. If it was the only way to do fatalities I could understand. To call this a fucking travesty though, you're
over exaggerating more than a 13 year old girl.

Goro is bullshit, call this a travesty not stupid easy fatals.

The nerfing of coins is another dumb one. First with this I'm pretty sure the "nerf" was just setting it to the earn rate that they probably wanted. I'd bet money they only had the reviewers earning more coins because they are reviewers and want them to be able to get all the stuff easily. Either way you still earn coins easily enough and the more you play the easier it gets to earn more. I fucking love that it wasn't stupid easy to unlock everything like MK9 was, but it still wasn't a grind.

The only actual fault here is Goro.
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Murcielago
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Get that ass BANNED

07/24/2015 05:57 PM (UTC)
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I despise this game whole heartedly.
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xysion
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Lazio? La prima squadra della Capitale.

07/24/2015 06:42 PM (UTC)
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frabn Wrote:
I will absolutely agree on these points -

The microtransactions - a travesty

Goro as day 1 disc locked content, occupying a regular roster slot - unforgivable

The nerfing of Koins - annoying, and shameful that it was done to drum up more interest in the $20 "Unlock the Krypt" BS.

There were many faults with the game.


I agree with one other poster who said two months ago "SaltyRice" or something like said: If people stopped mentioned the microtransactions I would forget they exist. Who the hell needs to buy them when the fatalities in this game are easy to do in the first place? There is a fatalty practice as well. As for the Krypt I unlocked everything in a week. This Krypt is easier to unlock then Deadly Alliance where there was six different currencies. I remember Cyrax's alternate or something like that needed an absurd number or platinum koins. And the only way to get platinum koins was to keep doing Test Your Might. That was for one koffin. It took way too long and was just grinding, The microtransactions are for casual fans so I do not see the problem.

They nerfed to koins from story mode because people were abusing the story mode. You could pick the final battle, beat Corrupted Shinnok, get a huge koin bonus then immedietely quit and do it again. Does that sound like fun? Instead of legitimately and organically getting koins, doing a boss battle over and over ad infinium?

There were not many faults. Perceived faults does not mean legitimate faults.
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frabn
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Well, you all got your Tremor now. Can we finally move on?

07/24/2015 06:46 PM (UTC)
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lanoitarnu Wrote:
frabn Wrote:
I will absolutely agree on these points -

The microtransactions - a travesty

Goro as day 1 disc locked content, occupying a regular roster slot - unforgivable

The nerfing of Koins - annoying, and shameful that it was done to drum up more interest in the $20 "Unlock the Krypt" BS.

There were many faults with the game.


I don't understand this. The microtransactions for easy fatalities, who cares? It's not like it's something anyone actually needs. If it was the only way to do fatalities I could understand. To call this a fucking travesty though, you're
over exaggerating more than a 13 year old girl.

Goro is bullshit, call this a travesty not stupid easy fatals.

The nerfing of coins is another dumb one. First with this I'm pretty sure the "nerf" was just setting it to the earn rate that they probably wanted. I'd bet money they only had the reviewers earning more coins because they are reviewers and want them to be able to get all the stuff easily. Either way you still earn coins easily enough and the more you play the easier it gets to earn more. I fucking love that it wasn't stupid easy to unlock everything like MK9 was, but it still wasn't a grind.

The only actual fault here is Goro.



And you throw curse words around like a 9 year old boy in 4th grade. What's your point?

I had no trouble with coins, I don't do the microtransactions. I'm simply echoing what the majority of the fanbase felt. Way to kneejerk react like an asshole, kiddo.
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lanoitarnu
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What

07/24/2015 07:24 PM (UTC)
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frabn Wrote:
lanoitarnu Wrote:
frabn Wrote:
I will absolutely agree on these points -

The microtransactions - a travesty

Goro as day 1 disc locked content, occupying a regular roster slot - unforgivable

The nerfing of Koins - annoying, and shameful that it was done to drum up more interest in the $20 "Unlock the Krypt" BS.

There were many faults with the game.


I don't understand this. The microtransactions for easy fatalities, who cares? It's not like it's something anyone actually needs. If it was the only way to do fatalities I could understand. To call this a fucking travesty though, you're
over exaggerating more than a 13 year old girl.

Goro is bullshit, call this a travesty not stupid easy fatals.

The nerfing of coins is another dumb one. First with this I'm pretty sure the "nerf" was just setting it to the earn rate that they probably wanted. I'd bet money they only had the reviewers earning more coins because they are reviewers and want them to be able to get all the stuff easily. Either way you still earn coins easily enough and the more you play the easier it gets to earn more. I fucking love that it wasn't stupid easy to unlock everything like MK9 was, but it still wasn't a grind.

The only actual fault here is Goro.



And you throw curse words around like a 9 year old boy in 4th grade. What's your point?

I had no trouble with coins, I don't do the microtransactions. I'm simply echoing what the majority of the fanbase felt. Way to kneejerk react like an asshole, kiddo.


I cursed three times, I'm so sorry boss. You had no trouble with the coins or microstransactions yet call them a travesty and shameful & annoying, I think saying over exaggerate like a 13 year old girl was spot on.
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Aquarius_D
07/24/2015 07:37 PM (UTC)
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lanoitarnu Wrote:
Aquarius_D Wrote:

5. Shady DLC and microtransaction scams. Though they have given free DLC like the fatality packs which was nice. Charging people so much for the Kombat Pack itself was a ripoff. Which is why I didnt buy it. Don't get me started on the krypt prices and little currency you get for playing the game. Its atrocious. I remember having so much fun during MKDA and Deception where we would get koins and be able to unlock a ton of awesome stuff at a decent rate and it was fun. We would get videos, character profiles, and more cooler stuff than what we're getting now. Plus the unlockable characters were on the disc, not withheld and charged for later. They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money. The same stuff is going on with Arkham Knight. I avoided that game completely. Maybe I'll get the GOTY version of that one instead. Would have done the same with MKX if not for the inner fanboy in me.

6. EASY FATALITIES??? WTF??? NRS has sunken down to a new low. But the worst part is charging people for it wow

Maybe Rayden should go back in time and undo this travesty that is MKX sad


The Kombat Pack was overpriced but it's still only $5 per character which is fine. You get a fine amount of coins in this game for the krypt. It's pretty easy to earn coins and only gets easier the more you play.

"They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money". Yea, that's how DLC works, they plan the characters they are going to make as DLC and then make them after the game goes gold. Would you actually rather they just never make any DLC and let the game die? These type of complaints just make me think you're dumb. Who gives a fuck about easy fatalities?


First of all Kiddo, things in my country are a lot more expensive due to the shitty currency exchange rate. If the Kombat Pack cost MYR30, I might be keen to buy it, but it costs 3.7 times more than that!.

Secondly It means that I'm fed up with the way DLC is handled by WB games and most of the other developers in general. Just Post Launch NRS/WB could have made the characters cheaper or given some of them for free at least, that could have earned them tonnes of respect from the community, but they chose this path instead. It's ok, you go ahead and support them as much as you like. Maybe next time they'll leave out half the roster and make you pay even more for the rest. WB games is notorious for this. I'm sure you'll be happy to give them all your money, since you're the smart one here wink

Frankly, if this is the route they're headed, I'd rather not see another MK

The thrill, joy and satisfaction from playing games like MKDA and MKDeception/Unchained exist no longer in this era.

sad
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lanoitarnu
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What

07/24/2015 07:59 PM (UTC)
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Aquarius_D Wrote:
lanoitarnu Wrote:
Aquarius_D Wrote:

5. Shady DLC and microtransaction scams. Though they have given free DLC like the fatality packs which was nice. Charging people so much for the Kombat Pack itself was a ripoff. Which is why I didnt buy it. Don't get me started on the krypt prices and little currency you get for playing the game. Its atrocious. I remember having so much fun during MKDA and Deception where we would get koins and be able to unlock a ton of awesome stuff at a decent rate and it was fun. We would get videos, character profiles, and more cooler stuff than what we're getting now. Plus the unlockable characters were on the disc, not withheld and charged for later. They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money. The same stuff is going on with Arkham Knight. I avoided that game completely. Maybe I'll get the GOTY version of that one instead. Would have done the same with MKX if not for the inner fanboy in me.

6. EASY FATALITIES??? WTF??? NRS has sunken down to a new low. But the worst part is charging people for it wow

Maybe Rayden should go back in time and undo this travesty that is MKX sad


The Kombat Pack was overpriced but it's still only $5 per character which is fine. You get a fine amount of coins in this game for the krypt. It's pretty easy to earn coins and only gets easier the more you play.

"They're just deliberately keeping the characters out so that they can make more money". Yea, that's how DLC works, they plan the characters they are going to make as DLC and then make them after the game goes gold. Would you actually rather they just never make any DLC and let the game die? These type of complaints just make me think you're dumb. Who gives a fuck about easy fatalities?


First of all Kiddo, things in my country are a lot more expensive due to the shitty currency exchange rate. If the Kombat Pack cost MYR30, I might be keen to buy it, but it costs 3.7 times more than that!.

Secondly It means that I'm fed up with the way DLC is handled by WB games and most of the other developers in general. Just Post Launch NRS/WB could have made the characters cheaper or given some of them for free at least, that could have earned them tonnes of respect from the community, but they chose this path instead. It's ok, you go ahead and support them as much as you like. Maybe next time they'll leave out half the roster and make you pay even more for the rest. WB games is notorious for this. I'm sure you'll be happy to give them all your money, since you're the smart one here wink

Frankly, if this is the route they're headed, I'd rather not see another MK

The thrill, joy and satisfaction from playing games like MKDA and MKDeception/Unchained exist no longer in this era.

sad


Lol I didn't even buy the kombat pack so I'm not giving them all my money, I'm just not someone who hates dlc for no good reason. DLC is good, it adds life to a game. It sucks if it's 3.7 times more expensive for you but why would they ever just give the characters for free? They have given us free skins and fatalities which is more than a lot of games ever give for free, Idk how WB is notorious for leaving out half the roster and charging for the rest since this has literally never happened.

The thrill, joy, and satisfaction is certainly still alive for a lot of people, it sucks it's not for you but that's a you problem and not an MK problem.
First time I've posted in this place in a great many eons: thus probably helping to further prove frabn's point that the heavy duty "long timers" are more scarce these days.

Some stuff in here I wanted to add to. First of all I am about as "old school" with this series as one can possibly get: I've been following it heavily and consistently since the original arcade game hit in 1992, well before any of the home ports even.

So I've been with this series since all there was was just the one lone arcade cabinet, the original scramble to find Reptile, the first ever Ermac rumors, the hyped lead up to the very first "Mortal Monday", the shocking drop of the first MKII beta cabinets in certain arcades, "Holy shit Reptile and Shang Tsung are PLAYABLE now?!", the constant, never ending rumor mill that fueled that game's original arcade run including inane Animalities/Nudalities, Hornbuckle etc, sussing out fake move lists from real ones, the agonizing over comparing each set of console ports once those hit, the batshit insane lead up to MK3, the movie, the MK3 backlash once that hit, UMK3's release, the first wave of bitching about "too many palette swaps", the oldest wave of constant fake fan made screen shot edits, the divisiveness over MK Trilogy, the overall series backlash once MK4 hit and wasn't aiming to directly compete against the likes of Tekken, Virtua Fighter, and Soul Edge like a bunch of people at the time hoped/expected it to, and of course the true "dark ages" that was almost the entirety of the 2000s from Special Forces and Deadly Alliance onward up till the "revival" period of 2010s and MK9/MKX.

Yeah. I'm THAT old and have been THAT dedicated to this game series over the past 23 years.

The crux of a lot of this thread seems to be a "generational divide" between 90s/arcade era fans and folks who didn't hop on until circa Deadly Alliance and Deception.

That's an understandable and entirely expected situation, however sad it is to read about. For a lot of reasons, the early 2000s (and to some extent even the tail-most late 90s) marks the start of this weird "generational divide" for a ton of aspects of various "geek" properties, particularly within the realm of video games.

Within video games especially, you're not gonna find a lot of common ground in perspective between anyone who started playing video games during the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era and people who started playing at anytime before, particularly if they go back to the 8 and 16 bit eras or even sooner. That specific timeframe seems to be a particularly stubborn wedge-period that saw a pretty massive turnover in fresh new gamers jumping in and forming views on gaming that clash pretty heavily with the older guard.

No reason why that shouldn't also extend to MK, which saw a LOT change pretty massively with the release of Deadly Alliance: first game of the PS2-era, first game to be console exclusive and completely shirk the by-then-dead American arcade scene, the first one to place a huge emphasis on "extra kontent" over actual gameplay substance etc.

I don't want to be a complete dick to younger gamers who didn't pick up a controller until circa 1998 to 2002, and to whom games and game design priorities and ideals that originally took root in that era are held dear to them. I don't want to be needlessly combative or be the stereotypical cranky old geezer shaking my cane at them and telling them to get off my lawn.

But at the same time... I'm NOT of their era or ideals on gaming. I've found over the years that I don't agree in the slightest with a great deal much of how they perceive these things overall. I can ultimately only speak from my own perspective while attempting as best I can to understand theirs.

As far as MK goes, the simple fact that younger gamers have to understand is that even though Deadly Alliance/PS2 era was THEIR start and introduction to things, that period is not at all the series own core roots. It has a much longer, deeper history than that, one that clashes a great deal with where gaming was headed in the early to mid 2000s.

MK was born in the arcades, and arcade game design by its very nature flies in total opposition largely to game design trends of roughly 2001 to 2008-ish. Its original core appeal is deeply entrenched in arcade gaming principals: ultra fast paced gameplay, a blistering sense of immediacy (i.e. you know exactly whether or not your going to continue playing this or switch to something else within the first 30 seconds of play or thereabouts), competitiveness, and an emphasis on deep mechanics and attention grabbing gimmickry.

MK has long taken flack for never being as technical or as deep as its immediate competitor in the 90s Street Fighter, and while that's true up to a certain point, I've never fully agreed with that 100%. I've always felt that MK's gameplay had merit of its own, its priorities were just vastly, starkly different to that of SF. And that should be fine: different and variety are good things usually.

SF built itself around one-frame links, cross ups, and reversals, MK meanwhile centered its fighting around aerial combat, juggling, and rewarding/emphasizing a more aggressive playstyle. As much as the two series shared such a closely-related pop cultural shelf space in the 90s (arcade fighting game scene) I never really felt it particularly fair to compare to two as they had such wildly different approaches to their genre: apples and oranges and all that. At the end of the day I've always loved and appreciated both about evenly for scratching two completely different itches.

The death of the arcade and the rise of console-centric gaming saw a lot of things change all across gaming, but especially for fighting games. This was the era where we saw the true birth of what we now think of as the modern day Triple A title, and all that comes with it: pushing photorealistic textures and hyping storytelling, "cinematic immersion", and unlockable content over what "hardcore" gamers of previous eras would consider to be the real meat, the actual gameplay and level of challenge.

For fighting games, this was a tricky new landscape to adapt to: the way many of them seemed to go about it was to either ignore everything that was going on completely and release "arcade style" games like the 90s never went anywhere (Capcom and SNKs's MO of the time during which they were mainly producing crossover titles of all their franchises) or this very bizarre approach where fighting games were less fighting games and more "grab bags" of various mini games and unlockables. The "core game" was usually some sort of pseudo-RPG/adventure mode, then there might be puzzle games, create a fighter, and other such things, and somewhere in there almost as an afterthought there'd be a fighting game.

The idea was instead of the main hook of the game being the actual fighting, learning and mastering the gameplay, and being competitive against other players, now the new hook was on completing the story-driven adventure mode, unlocking all the goodies (which included usually things as fundamental as more than 50/60% of the regular roster, almost all of the background arenas, and in some extreme cases even a bunch of the moves). Once you beat the story mode and unlock everything, you've "finished" the game.

MK did this, various DBZ games did it, Soul Calibur arguably popularized this approach to some extent, Smash Bros. was known for it, and Dead or Alive embraced it to the point of just dumping all pretense at even making a fighting game and putting out the "Extreme Beach Volleyball" series (where you could just play a variety of minigames and unlock useless crap all day long and never have to even pretend to concern yourself with a fighting game).

Instead of “play to enjoy the fighting and improve your skills against other players” a lot of fighting games were increasingly being built on a “dangle the shiny carrot in front of the player” model and design philosophy, not a million miles removed from what a lot of terrible mobile games do today. While it made gamers of that era play these games ravenously for a little while, without anything much to do after you've unlocked and finished everything, there wasn't much in the way of replay value or longevity to keep people coming back, since often times (especially with MK) the actual fighting game suffered under the weight of all this useless extra crap.

Some of these series, like Smash in particular, managed to do alright with this approach, but by and large, especially for a series like MK, this kind of got entirely too far away from the original core appeal.

Its not hard to see where this thinking came from at the time: during this period, there was a much sharper divide between console gamers and arcade gamers (to say nothing of PC gamers but that's a whole other story). Particularly since around the N64, there began to be fostered a younger generation of gamers who never set foot in an arcade, didn't own a game-able PC of any sort, and didn't really ever indulge in competitive-heavy multiplayer games.

To this era of gamers, games were these single player-centric "quest/objective"-driven experiences that hinged upon there being a stark beginning, middle, and end, with maybe some sub-objectives along the way. The idea of a game being entirely 100% "gameplay for the same of gameplay" with no "end goal" other than just continually improving one's skill and ability (as is the case with fighting games) seemed completely and utterly foreign.

As arcades were now dead, PC gaming at the time was starting to go on the wane for a bit, consoles were for a time the all consuming force of gaming, and stuff sort of rejiggered itself to adapt to that paradigm.

For a lot of younger gamers, that's just the way things were across all of gaming for them for the better part of close to a decade or more. From my vantage point, as an arcade rat of the 80s and 90s (born and bred) this era was kind of a hellish wasteland of tedious boredom for me. Shit was FAR too slow paced, not substantive on mechanics, and everything was consumed by these massive 30+ hour cutscene-driven timesinks with lots of "you have to play for at least 10 hours to get to the REALLY good stuff" and little in the way of that "immediacy" I mentioned before.

As all-consuming as this era seemed to be for the bulk of the 2000s, as of the 2010s, the pendulum has been swinging back the other way. Consoles by and large aren't doing quite as well as they're no longer the central-most focus of all of gaming, and while we'll probably not see a return of arcades anytime remotely soon (or ever), PC's have done an incredible turn around and are matching consoles tit for tat in a way they haven't in a great many years, to say nothing of mobile gaming's place in all this.

Indie games especially seem to be responsible for changing a lot of this too. Thanks to lower barriers to entry in game development and distribution, tons of indie games are being made (largely by older gamers weaned on the 8/16 bit era) that place emphasis back on fast, mechanics-driven, "arcadey" experiences, and are doing more than well enough to show that this style of game design isn't "irrelevant" or "archaic" like people have been constantly told during the 2000s, but still has a great deal of life and validity and a timeless sense of fun to it.

For some younger gamers who were especially entrenched in mid-2000s game design ideas and the narrative that “story-minimal/free games focused on challenge and mechanics” are these outdated relics of a deservedly dead past, the renewed popularity of this whole approach has been a sharp mental whiplash for them that they're having a great deal of difficulty adjusting to or accepting as the new normal.

For fighting games, I think that better online has done a lot add to this and to swing the genre out of the early/mid 2000s tar pits of "mini game grab bags and unlockables". Street Fighter IV really hit a nerve with a brand new generation of gamers, re-introducing "hardcore" fighting gaming and the arcade competitive format to modern gaming in a huge, huge way and I think the current renaissance that MK's enjoying owes a LOT to that. I don't think we'd have an MK9 or MKX without all of this.

There's still downsides though, largely in the form of DLC, season passes, and their respective charging models and that's where probably the most contention with the current fighting game paradigm now lies. I've got many of the same reservations and complaints with all this stuff myself as anyone else does.

But as much as I COULD bitch about that stuff, overall I'm not. I'm a LOT happier with where fighting games and where MK among them are now compared to ten years ago. Yes, there's a LOT about the DLC model that's shady as hell and bilking gamers of extra cash, and that's entirely wrong and unacceptable and I'm against that as much as the next person... but in the grander scheme of things, fighting games are in a much, much better place.

We're seeing more and more videos, blog posts, and discussions online now than we did a decade ago where players are talking gameplay, strategy, and character improving skills rather than obsessing about story and useless extra modes and content.

People are playing fighting games for the fighting games themselves again and are legitimately interested in the core of how they play rather than fixating on irrelevant bells and whistles and letting shallow, tepid fighting engines off the hook out of apathy and ignorance.

Fighting games are growing in popularity among a lot of much younger gamers now, and for the right reasons even, and not just being played by us ancient old crones of the 80s and early 90s. That's how this shit will ultimately stay alive and continue on into the future.

So as much of a concern as the issues with the more eyebrow raising aspects of the DLC model is, to me in the bigger picture it feels like a much lesser issue than the core games themselves being shallow and not catering to the genre's strengths and core appeal.

For MK in particular, MK9 and MKX are without a doubt by far and away the absolute best the games have ever been since the original arcade days in the 90s. If I'm being really critically objective and taking off my nostalgia goggles entirely (as I'm especially want to do these days) I'd go so far as to say that MK9 and X are far and away better fighting games than even UMK3 (the gold standard of gameplay in this series for the longest damned time). I still love and hold dear the original arcade trilogy as some of my absolute favorite games ever to this day, so I don't make that statement in any way lightly.

Its especially funny that some younger fans (including the OP of this thread) mention Deadly Alliance as their starting point and gateway drug title, because that game for me probably ranks as the absolute WORST game in the entire core series bar none. Worse than MK4 certainly (controversial opinion: I don't even think MK4 is all THAT particularly terrible in hindsight) and worse than MK vs DC (which lacks the signature ultra violence but is at the very least sort of playable in a barebones, baseline way). Deadly Alliance was the start of all the worst qualities in the PS2 era of the series, and also has some of the stiffest, most unintuitive controls and gameplay of all of them on top.

Its the absolute rock bottom low of the series I'd say, with each successive PS2-era entry getting subsequently... not so much “better” but less crappier. The core Deadly Alliance engine, with its “sounds cool on paper but clunky and cumbersome in practice” fighting style switching mechanic, was just an awful fighting engine at its core, and all of its sequels up through MK vs DC was essentially Midway polishing a turd by making it mildly less unbearable each outing (but still fundamentally broken and not particularly engaging).

MK9 was the first time the series really felt like it had gotten back to what made it so fun and so addictive in the first place: super fast paced, special move and air juggle-driven insanity coupled with brutal over the top gore and a motley cast of comic booky characters and settings that came straight out of a 20 year old Gen X'ers Hong Kong Wuxia and cheeseball violent B movie-addled fever dream.

There was still a Krypt and a couple of odds and ends to unlock, but they're kept largely to a bare minimum. There's a story mode, but its not really mandatory. You can just easily pick up and play this as a straight ahead, no bullshit fighting game with all the replayability in the world inherent to the fun factor and depth of its gameplay. No “carrot dangling” needed. That's all I ever really ask at the end of the day.

MKX mostly continues that, with a ton of new stuff, most of it largely cool and welcome. The variant system was a worry of mine at first (filling my mind with ugly flashbacks of the style switching shenanigans of the PS2 games) but its turned out to be a pretty cool, mostly well thought out little gimmick that ups the re-playability for me in a big way for many characters.

On paper it sounds like some of the new characters should be annoying (particularly Cassie Cage) but they're all largely pulled off very well in both visual design and especially gameplay and Fatalities and overall “personality”. Erron Black in particular is bar none the SICKEST new character MK has seen since Kenshi debuted in DA (one of the only positive contributions that game made to the series in the long term) and Devorah is really fun and creative.

I honestly don't have much of an issue with any of the new faces: we're a long, long ways away from the yawn inducing days of Kobra, Hsu Hao, and Dairou. And other than the “Selfie” Fatality, they don't ever really flog out the whole “millennial” thing too obnoxiously with Cassie either. She's just presented as another cool fighter with a Cage/Sonya hybrid thing going on (as you'd expect), and it works just fine for what it is. If I have any nitpicks, my main one might be that there's just a couple too many “generic military tech gear” suits among them for my liking, but then hey, that's what alternate skins are for.

As far as the story goes.... honestly my days of really caring about MK's story died out sometime after the time of MK3/MK4. On the “lore” end of things I've always been a bit of a loyal John Tobias guy and I always felt that the “myth building” part of the series lost something inherently vital with his departure. Even contentious additions of his like certain characters in MK4 (Quan Chi, Fujin, Tanya, etc.) seem to have been slowly vindicated with time (and Special Forces, crap though it is, I hardly hold against him as the finished product resembles his original plans for it in no way, shape, or form).

Some really cool stray bits of story here and there and some good characters still came out of the PS2-era stuff (Kenshi easily being the big winner of the whole PS2-era, and and the whole Red Dragon thing having some interesting aspects to it I felt) but on the whole MK's story and lore post 3 and 4 has been pretty “bleh” to me.

And I'm not really super fond of a lot of MK9's time travel retcons either (Of all the eras to muck with the story for, you go to the original trilogy? Really?). Some are kinda fun in a “what if?” sort of way (Sub-Zero being cyberized instead of Smoke) others are just “Huh?” inducing (Quan Chi and human Sektor/Cyrax being present for MK1). I liked learning more small bits of background info on Smoke and the Sub-Zero brothers though (and the way they snuck in the original “Tundra” name was pretty cute).

MKX, being half MK4-retelling and half-totally new stuff fares a bit better with me. There's less screwing about with old continuity this time around, and more in the way of actual forward progression. Its still not the greatest though: Sub-Zero being easily de-cyberized right off the bat sort of makes that (pretty massive) change in MK9 feel a lot more pointless now, and I'm not so hot on some of the more “Hollywood tentpole movie” moments in the cutscenes.

Not gonna lie though, its pretty damn fun seeing Scorpion alive again (and being referred to as “Hanzo” all the time: so cool for us old timers especially). And the dynamics between the “new gen” characters is really well handled. For all its faults, the story mode does a LOT to make them immediately likable.

But all that's just me being super nerdy: as I've said and as I've learned over the course of the 2000s in general, for certain video game genres (fighting games being a big one) story just on the whole does not matter all that much in the grander scheme of things. If the gameplay isn't there, then it doesn't really matter what they do with the story. This isn't a book or a movie: its a video game. If its not fun to actually play, then why am I even bothering?

As much as I like what they've done with the DLC characters (who'd have ever thought that Tremor of all characters would've turned out even halfway as cool as he ultimately did here?) yeah I'm skeeved by the steep prices for the Kombat pack(s?). On the flip side though, I don't really understand why people are freaking out so much about the “Easy Fatality” thing. Is the entire idea of it preposterously stupid? Hell yes. Of course. Goes without saying. Is it a cynical move on NRS/WB's part for doing it? Absolutely. Should anyone not idiotic enough to actually buy it (I'd hope that that's most people) let it ruin or mar the whole game for them? Not at all. That's silly.

As transparently awful as the Easy Fatality thing is, nobody's putting a gun to anyone's head to buy it. I've completely ignored it the entire time I've had the game, and you know how much its impacted my game? Not a single bit. Anyone who's enough of a rube to buy the thing and flush the 5 bucks it costs down the toilet for them... that's entirely on them and they've no one to blame but themselves and their own ignorance/poor impulse spending habits.

Though again, no fee pass to NRS/WB for taking advantage of those poor suckers in the first place. But by the same token, why anyone who otherwise likes the game would waste any energy steaming over the easy fatalities' mere existence when its the most easily ignorable thing in the world baffles me.

In summation, count me in as a super-old schooler who was severely turned off by the Deadly Alliance – MK vs DC era and was won back over in a HUGE way by MK9 and MKX. I've been playing more MK in general now than I have in years and I've been absolutely loving the hell out of it. To the younger folks to whom the Deadly Alliance/PS2 era was their main jam for this stuff and aren't happy with where things are now... I'm sorry you're in that position, but for some of us older folks, now you sort of see where we were coming from back in the day.

The only thing I can really say is that that whole era for the series was the “aberration” in its history. The past two games are MUCH more in line with its roots and what it started out as and what originally grabbed its older fanbase. Either it'll appeal to you despite how you started, or it won't.

Personally, I couldn't be more pleased with how the last couple games turned out. This to me feels like the core fundamentals of what makes MK what it is, but properly evolved to a modern standard that makes sense and doesn't feel like a compromise or watering down of anything. I still personally miss Tobias' cool art style and design sensibilities and it'll always feel to me like there's something important missing from this series without it; but overall I've been thoroughly won back over into the fold since 2011.

Like with the 90s arcade titles, I'll probably be playing MK9 and X for a great long time to come as they're made with an actual sense of longevity in mind.
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TheZombie
07/24/2015 09:13 PM (UTC)
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Well, the story of MKX is still better than the reboot's, or for that matter, the movies'. And while you guys don't like that the classics are back, next time, if they are gone, someone will cry out because of their exclusion...
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unleash_your_tounge
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"Life, for all it's anguish, is ours Miss Ives. It belongs to no other." - Ferdinand Lyle

07/24/2015 09:42 PM (UTC)
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oracle Wrote:
Oop @ me loving the story in this game.


You're not alone. I wasn't expecting it to be spot on, and there are a few things that irk me, but just as long as it was better than MK9's, I'd be completely satisfied.
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Grimm
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07/24/2015 10:29 PM (UTC)
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Thank you for those who either took the time to intellectually argue my points with their own reasoning and to the people who have the same feelings as I do.

To everyone else, if all you are gonna do is come in here and throw everyone's opinion back in their face, why even come on a message board? You must be great in social situations.

I really wish I didn't feel the way that I did about this game. And further more, I do hope that my faith in Mortal Kombat is restored in the future, but this game really knocked MK down a few pegs for me.

I seem to be one of the few who actually liked MK9's story. It was a reboot, or a re-imagining of sorts, of Mortal Kombat. But it followed the foundation that was laid out over 20 years ago (for the most part). It told a story that I couldn't wait to see what happened next. MKX, I couldn't wait for it to be over so I could just get the damn trophy for beating story mode. It was just...awful. I have come to expect a lot more from this team. The comics tell a MUCH better story than this game did.

As far as my problems with the krypt, I will admit that I didn't spend a shit ton of time on this game, grinding for coins. Because I don't HAVE a shit ton of time to grind for coins. When I go through arcade mode with whatever character, and I end up only being able to afford 1 Brutality and a concept art, shit is too expensive for the casual gamer. I don't have all the time needed to dedicate towards unlocking everything in the krypt. Which is where the microtransaction comes in as far as paying $20 to unlock everything. They knew that the casual gamer either wouldn't have the time or wouldn't want to spend the time to unlock everything, but the hardcore MK fan would want everything so they might spend the money. I refuse to give any more money towards this game. Kombat Pack 2 can be Havik, Reiko, Fujin, and Rain for all I care and I won't buy a single one of them.

The core fighting mechanics in the game are great, other than a few things that are only personal preferences that I don't like. But everything else about this game leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I can't find the enjoyment in it that I found in pretty much every other Mortal Kombat I've played, and it really pains me to say that. This is now the second series that I cherish and have fond memories of from my childhood that has disappointed me this much.
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KenshiMaster16
07/24/2015 11:43 PM (UTC)
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Grimm Wrote:
The core fighting mechanics in the game are great, other than a few things that are only personal preferences that I don't like. But everything else about this game leaves such a bad taste in my mouth that I can't find the enjoyment in it that I found in pretty much every other Mortal Kombat I've played, and it really pains me to say that. This is now the second series that I cherish and have fond memories of from my childhood that has disappointed me this much.



Despite me sharing some of the same complaints as you, I try to always remember something. I'm also a fan of Batman and 007 so that's the comparison I'm going to use; For every Die Another Day, there is a Casino Royale. For every Batman & Robin, there is a Batman Begins.

Long-standing, proven franchises (if run smartly), know when they've done wrong and usually (and smartly) correct their course and fix their issues. Hopefully MK can address a lot of our issues. Granted, I don't expect them to fix everything as everyone has different opinions, but I hope they make a more well-rounded game in terms of roster, netcode and how they deal with characters in Story Mode.

One can hope.
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oracle
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-sig by MINION

07/25/2015 01:30 AM (UTC)
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Grimm Wrote:
As far as my problems with the krypt, I will admit that I didn't spend a shit ton of time on this game, grinding for coins. Because I don't HAVE a shit ton of time to grind for coins.
This was my problem with the Krypt. When I saw it the first thing I thought was that I didn't have time for all of that foolishness. I'm trying to unlock skins not explore some dank ass spider infested dungeon so I can buy a 1,100 koin brutality for a character I'm not even going to use.

I just can't help but think that it was a waste of development time and resources. But yeah the Krypt was clearly designed to want you to pay the 20 bucks to unlock everything as if you didn't just buy a $90 game if you bought the Kombat Pack.
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AgentK
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07/25/2015 02:36 AM (UTC)
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lanoitarnu Wrote:
redman Wrote:
I agree with you on most points. MK9 did a good job at rejuvenating the franchise and brought a lot of the old fans back, but the transition from MK9 to MKX was just too big imo. They feel so different and they changed a lot of the things that I felt didn't need to be changed. I agree with you on factions as well, they were a complete waste of development time. They add NOTHING to the game.

The story has gotten worse for the most part with these two games, and it's undeniable. The presentation of the games has been amazing, but with the cost of telling a good story. I'm not going to bother with giving a shit about the story anymore after this game because it's obvious that NRS has stopped caring about it. I feel like they're trying too hard to make a story that will be easy to understand and appeal to the casuals. At the same time they throw in a few 3D era characters as cameos for the "hardcore" fans to show that they actually remember that they fucking exist.

Gameplay is better in this game, but the balance hasn't been very good at all. Variations obviously aren't working as intended, so many characters have useless variations that haven't been addressed yet. Gunslinger Erron Black, Spectral Ermac, Ruthless Ferra/Torr, the list goes on. It just seems like a gimmick that I hope doesn't come back for the next game. I do like some aspects of the variations, but I would prefer if they fine-tuned it or narrowed it down to 2 variations instead of three. I believe the gameplay is a step in the right direction with MKX, but it does need some fixing.

DLC - two guest characters, 'nuff said.

The Online - absolutely atrocious. This might be the reason that I don't buy the next MK. It's 2015 and we still don't have a good functioning online. Xbox One players can barely even connect to the fucking servers. This should honestly be their #1 priority for the next game, but I bet we will still have the same issues honestly. They have no incentive to fix anything because people will still buy it.







Maybe it's only PS4 or something but the online has been fine for the last like two months.


No, he's right. The online experience for Xbox One is fucking horseshit. It takes forever to connect to the server. I come home all excited to play MKX online, but I have to deal with atrocious connection. By the time the damn thing connects, my excitement has long ended. This is definitely one of the reasons...actually, THE MAIN REASON, why I haven't enjoyed MKX as much as MK9. I don't give two shits about any other mode, I just like to play my games online with friends. And I am hardly getting that experience with MKX.
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