What's exciting about Baraka? He's been nothing but a useless henchman from the start.

And don't start that 'new characters suck' crap.

Baraka should definitely be retired. The character has nowhere to go, and even if you use the "it's a fighting game, story doesn't matter" line, he's still pretty bland. Besides his blades, he's got nothing. Take the concept of his weapons, give them to someone else. Bringing back characters just because of their style is a no-no, not when there are interesting and charismatic characters to explore, and limited slots to give to them.

If it were up to me, Scorpion wouldn't return, either. Bring in a new bad-ass guy, give him a sword, have him unleash Hell, and you have an adequate replacement.

I'm not a big fan of Sindel, either. Her gimmick when she was brought in was "evil bitch." I appreciate development as much as the next guy, but there is really no where for her to go now that she's good. Kitana is both younger (in terms of the storyline), older (in terms of how long she's been in the games), and has more potential as a character. We haven't seen her as queen yet, and whether or not she can handle that extra pressure.

True, MK has a long way to go before it can reach the same succes.

At least Vogel is not that adamant on capitalizing cheesy comic-book and media stuff, and actually does something reasonable. Post MK4 character roster newb at least have őpersonalities, which previous "classes" lack.

Johnny Cage (intended protagonist, a direct copy of van Damme from Bloodsport right down to the looks)

Kano (admitted to be the cyborg, though guy in MK. Admittedly a terminator rip)

Raiden (exact copy Thunder from Big trouble in Little China, too bad they fucked up on the gods name, the deity is called Raijin, and Raiden only means "loud thunder" or "thunderbolt" NOT an actual name, as -den is NEITHER and adverbic or nounic suffix in Japanese).

Liu Kang (Bruce Lee, without the charisma and a serious issue about the suppository shaolin-ness of him. Love with Kitana? Shaolins are celibate).

Sub-Zero, at least visually not original. Actually this is the character that retains the most element of self-madeness.

Scorpion (a chinese movie that featured a man named Liu Kang, and a thrown grappling hook to pull enemies into uppercuts..geeez, add Ghost Rider into the design, or Eldric -most prominently etc.).

Sonya (oligatory chick. terminator reference? Why not throw in the army equivalent of Sarah Connor Midway? At least she retained her personality and uniqueness untill MK4)

Goro (should have remained dead after MK4 imo, but generally unique as a GAME CHARACTER, but not as a CONCEPT. Still, noteworthy)

Shang Tsung (random racist Fu Manchu villain stereotype mixed with Lo Pan. However this villain actually achieved something, and as a focal po-int for MK3 and MKDA has clearly given something to the saga. If he outli-ved his usefullness he may rest. Otherwise do not return him if his return is something that completely rewamps him. Original power, came second only after the shapeshifter from Dark Legions)

Kung Lao (Oddjob from James Bond, random chinese boxer hat and aga-in the faux-shaolin stuff. Despite this, the background and ancestry makes him a fairly outstanding character).

Reptile (again, looks. Character devolved into minionness. Nothing uni-que, and after KI definitely not an unseen spot. nothing we have not seen in truth, just in a slightly different packing, what was a dead giveaway aga-in).

Kitana / Mileena (Kitana should have remained a class for herself, but they ioveremphasized her princess role and gave her a goodguy attitude, and apparently an emotion-whore flavour. If someone served hundreds of years as an assassin she will not become a sentimental wretch even if she swaps her allignment. That one thing bothers me, and if her romance with Kang is oversensualized, then she is a downright subversive sexist interpretation. That would be a waste. I have no problems with Mileena, aside the fact her psychosis with the original. Either deepen it, or skip on it alltogether. Visually they are no ripoffs but none too original either)

Baraka (yawn, Samoplast issue 7 goblin mask, Serbian manufacture. Add the false fingernails and vola, we have ORC RIPOFF no. 1235, check Dark legions on the Orcs arm-based weapons. Not to mention Wolverine. Not to mention henchman syndrome 7. Drop dead.)

Jax (thank god they waited with the ghetto degeneration untill MKDA. A collected and iron-willed afro american with AUTHORITY should ring a bell with the american white trash gaming community. Aside the fact he degra-ded, MK2 Jax is a prime example of a good, colored mastering of a video game character)

Kintaro (the original concept would had more staying power. Despite the remix in MKA this character fails on so many levels of originality and vague-ness, that it is not funny. He could be reused, but why? He has not done anything worthwhile)

Shao kahn (bondage fairy on steroids ripping off Skeletor and Ghenghis Kán a.k.a. Temüjin at the same time. Yet his representation was quite a novelty. too bad they had to overexpose and shove him down our throats all too many times. So, his time is done).

Sindel (composit ripoff of admittedly Wiccan saturday-easy-religion for the teenage angsters, SUPPOSEDLY gothic looks what actually is the direct opposite of the colorful 11.-13.th. century gothic era, and marvel Ripoff of the following characters: Medusa and Banshee -like to know that Banshee here is a male character, the creators obviously had no idea what the celtic phrase baen shide means. Had use for one game in plot. Was completely useless in the tier list around the Shang Tsung level, what was pretty low.
I particularly despise this character in function. and as the mocking of two of my most favourite concepts: medieval art and aestheticism. As a matter of fact her on screen role made it worse in the second MK movie).

Stryker (nothing THAT bad, but nothing new or original either. I liked the beefcake appearance though. Not everyone has to look like an "anime hero" or "perfect warrior" stereotype).

Nightwolf (I admit not liking this character at first, but a native-american warrior who late got his own instrumental part in MKD saved him from being a flop. Nothing original though, and the spandex almost killed us).

Sheeva (there is only one admirable thing in Sheeva --> the stop-motion figure what was created for her concept and later was animated. Nothing more).

Cyrax (no personality but the out of the mind weaponry and the post MK4 plotline for him made the character somewhat tolerable, and suprisingly, instrumental in MKDA)

Sektor (random evil red painted robot-android-cyborg with missiles and no personality)

Kabal (admitted as a direct borrowing from Star Wars sandman, .... and the general trenchcoat guy stereotype, paired with..hookswords? One of the things I know that using those requires extensive admittance by sifus who know how to handle those. Then we find out he was/is a Black Dra-gon ...... nothing so original, this character is like an encyclopedia with-out and ABC order).

Kai, Reiko, Shinnok are characters that lack. And they lack in every sense of character, creativity and originality. MK4 had only two strongpoints: the games pacing and Quan Chi. As a matter of fact Quan Chi is the perfect example of Elemental Asshole.

Hmm, interesting analysis on the different characters, Chrome. Just some things though...

Raiden: I thought "Raiden" also means "Thunder and Lightning". But yeah, Raijin is what he should've been called, not that his name would be pronounced correctly either way.

Liu Kang: Regarding him and his supposed romance with Kitana, please read the following:

http://www.shaolintemple.org/essay.htm#celibaby%20and%20vegetarianism

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but from what is being said, it says differently from what you're saying.

Sub-Zero: Yeah, you're right about his looks, but I'm glad that he stepped out of his brother's shadow and forged a destiny for himself.

Sonya: Yeah, she could supposedly be a Terminator reference, but I don't know. I will say that although I see some potential in her, it won't necessarily mean she'll develop as a character even if that potential is used.

Shang Tsung: lol about the Manchu villain stereotype thing; I didn't think of that before.

Jax: Yeah, I liked his MK2 version the best as well. I'm still pissed about the whole "ghetto" thing, even if he never was a favorite of mine.

Shao Kahn: Yeah, I liked that he's not the stereotypical "idiot brute" but instead a cunning and vicious mastermind. Even though he does kind of have the bondage thing going on, you have to admit his helmet is badass!

Sindel: *shrugs* I think if she were to come back, they may have to revamp certain aspects in her design, but I think there is some good exploring that can be done with her character.

Stryker: You actually liked the MK3 appearance? Wow. Hmm...I personally prefer the whole S.W.A.T. look with his MKA alt.

Nightwolf: I think he could be developed into some kind of minor mentor role, but I personally don't have that much interest in him. I was actually looking forward to his return given his MKD bio, but he ended up being a bit underwhelming and somewhat forgetable.

Why do you even play Mortal Kombat?

Anyway, we live in a world where originality is rare, because we already have done most of the things there is to do. The best thing to do is to twist or mix it to at least try and make something that would seem original. I believe Mortal Kombat has done a good job on that, though with a few slips, but haven't we all? ;P

Clones, copies, etc etc, all the games have them, but we, as fans, expect them to be there... If they took out the characters based on someone else, there would be no one left.. As long as the games are great and the characters do a succesful job in entertaining us with great gameplay, graphics, stories and all that, then I will keep playing. Because I'm a fighting game lover, MK being one of the games I have come to love the most.

Why fear what happens in the future sequals when you can hope for the best?

Next Mk should just take place in a separate or alternate universe. That way , no one technically gets killed off.

Midway could then return back to the other universe some time in the future.

imo, baraka should stay if his story gets better.

if there are characters who do die but were like in the old mks, like cage, there should be somewhere along the line in the game on how they get killed. it would be nice to know, but im just saying this. but i would personally like to see cage go.

other than that, i would just have the main popular characters and a few new guys ne in mk8.

I don't see Baraka's story getting better ever. Where can his story go? He can continue the henchmen role, which will be redundant. He could try to take his own power, which has been done before by other characters. He could become a good guy, which wouldn't make much sense given the nature of the Tarkata. Overall, he's fucked.

when they got rid of Lui Kang the game wasn't as... fun

and if they get rid of Dairou that will get me pissed

Everything but his story.


Does the truth bother you?

-never said I do play MK.

-good job, you quoted depletionism in literature. Originality is exhausted for the time of being.

I did? :P

And no, I guess you didn't say you played MK, but then I don't understand why you are here... But that's an explanation for another time :)

I liked Chrome's analysis of some of the characters. I think you might have been a little too hard on some of them, though. I mean, some may not be blindingly original, but just because someone appears to be of the human species doesn't mean you should write them off as offering you nothing new.

Baraka really isn't exciting. He's Wolverine come ugly, and it just never worked for me. His storyline really let him down, as I never felt he was a major player in the MK universe.

not all new characters suck crap. In fact aome characters even kick ass like Kenshi, Sareena, Fujin etc.

Don't forget Frost.

And I never said all new characters suck. I've been saying most new characters suck.

Just so you know.

Well this conversation is very interesting and I don't even know where to begin.

Well as far as Baraka goes, it seems that a lot of you want him killed because he is useless. IMO yes this is very agreeable story-line wise, but in my eyes he is considered a classic.

Now it's very easy to say (O just let somebody else have his role and kill him off.) but is it really that simple? What I mean is if you just give some other tarkatan warrior his role wouldn't this character be a rip off of well... HIM with just a different name?

And for that matter, can any other of his tarkatan warriors handle his position in the first place? If so why were they not mentioned before?

What I'm basically saying is, you just can't kill off Baraka because I'm pretty sure he has a fan base. Like I said he's classic, and you guys were already pissed about the fact that many of the ninjas were just rip offs from Sub-Zero to Scorpion to Reptile etc. (Which didn't bother me at all.)

Anyways if this pissed you off wouldn't it also piss you off if there were continuously replacements for Baraka? My point here is if he's gonna die, you might as well let him die for good along with his army of Tarkatans. Otherwise keep him for Fan references.

I think that characters like Scorpion and Baraka are popular only because of their gimmick not because of the actual character or gameplay (Scorpi-on plainly sucked in MK Trilogy). There are admired only because of surfa-ce stuff, like twinkies.

Look for example on Tsung or Hotaru. The first is a plain old Fu Manchu Lo Pan rip off, with the exemptional quality of succeeding most of the time and actually being a constant threat. The other is not obvious at first glance, and unlike most alignment-dilemma characters hads a solid stand on what purpose he might act. -and the fact that I have not exactly seen a visually similar character save for the flags. Even those are however rare.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up regarding characters like Scorpion and Baraka. Sure, they have their fanbases, but it's generally shallow-based and not because the character has any real value to them.

To whatuknowaboutmk?: When I mean that there could be another character to replace Baraka, I don't necessarily mean another Tarkatan. I just meant that as a villain, he's not that interesting, and a better, more interesting villain could be used instead.

Shallow-based or not, Baraka is entertaining, as evidenced by his fan base, which proves he's a successful character in this entertainment franchise. If they got fans, people will pay to play as them, and buy the games to do so.


Well, as we've already established, his surface qualities are good, meaning the only thing Baraka needs to become interesting to you is a revamped story, one that gives him depth and more character, right?

So you and Chrome will change your minds about him if future games give him a few interesting paragraphs? It's a little shallow to judge characters and put their very existence in this franshise on the line just for that.

Honestly, no offense, but I still find that to be absurd.

Most of the characters could stay in the game IF they got a story revamp... Give them new goals that fit the story.

Example: Chun Li of Street Fighter had but one goal: murder her father's murderer, M Bison (Vega if JP). I Street Fighter 3 Bison was gone and a new boss arrived. Chun Li's goal changed so she could fit into the game, but she was still the same good character. Her story just got more serious!
(For you who wonders what her new goal was; she was going to rescue a kid who was kidnapped by the cult the fnal boss were leader of.)

Also, though Mileena had it in her mind to kill off Kitana, in MKD she took over her twin's place as ruler of Edenia... Wow, that was a change that fitted her, instead of the old "I hate Kitana, she must die" attitude... Raiden and Ermac went through the same thing which I think made them even more interesting!

Scorpion however still seeks revenge, though towards others than he sought upon in the past games. But he has some potential in that his clan has come back. If he somehow could accept the fact that it won't change, he could turn his goals an other direction and his character would change massively. I'm tired of the old avenging spectre, so give him a revamp... Then he would be more than welcome to join the roster of MK8.

And the same goes with characters like Baraka, Kitana and Kung Lao.

Shallow for caring more about a character's depth, personality, and motivation than how they dress and what kind of gimmick special moves they have?

good point

In MK, story is essential.