So he rushes into battle and maybe didn't hear him. So what? In fairness, Johnny says "I was with Smoke" after the entire damn fight takes place as he still believes it's her on the ground too. And while Johnny's no genius, I'd hardly call him a complete fool (just a partial one).

We've had this conversation before and I've come to the conclusion Smoke's just kind of a smartass hothead. You, Razor, label him as a complete idiot. We're not going to change each other's opinions; I won't try.

When it comes to MK9, I sit grateful for the fact that he got a real name and an origin, and a decent display of his powers at his disposal, at the very least. Sure, I wish they'd built his character up well they way they did for Nightwolf, but I've got neither the time or energy to sit there lamenting every shortcoming in the plot the way I once did (There are better things to bitch about, actual terrible decisions like completely ruining the Mileena/Kitana dynamic or undermining the entire reason for the tournament existing). I'll take what I can get, be thankful for it, and move along. MK9 didn't develop his character very well, but to claim it did him zero favors is ridiculous.

I don't think there's anything that could ever justify the Smoke/Sub-Zero cyber switch for some short of a full Lin Kuei prequel videogame highlighiting their time serving together with a score composed by Howard Shore (take notes, NRS).

Actually, I'm just exaggerating for the sake of being a sarcastic jerk and amusing myself every time I call Smoke retarded or acknowledge his allegedly "arrogant" behavior in MK9 in any way because my TRUE thoughts on the matter are STILL that nothing he says in story mode demonstrates any actual personality at all.

I don't think his supposed moments of snark or "hotheadedness" are anywhere near snarky or hotheaded enough to qualify as actual deliberate characterization, I honestly believe that every line he speaks is so bland that it would not sound out-of-character if it had come out of Baraka or Sheeva or Raiden or Kung Lao or anyone else in the game's mouth.
There's nothing about him calling Kitana a "housemaid" or having a misunderstanding to fight Jade that stands out as "This is the way Smoke is, this is what makes him unique from everyone else" because MOST of the cast insult each other or say something that's supposed to sound witty before they fight, and the past FOUR MK games in a row have frequently overused the cliché of a fight being caused because two people who are supposed to be on the same side misunderstood each other for a poorly written reason. Smoke has the DEFAULT personality for a Mortal Kombat character, the one that comes natural to the writers BEFORE they start adding characteristics.

From what exactly?
He had zero personality and only one thing going for him. In MK9 he received personality and backstory. So, in my book it was more or less fair trade. I hold my opnion until / if Smoke appear again in MK games.


You good at being jerk...and good at selective blindness.


Ha-ha-ha.

And that's a shame. You're one of a few people on this forum capable of holding a civilized, well-researched, nuanced discussion without letting attitude or snarkiness obfuscate or undercut any points you make. I much prefer discussion when it's tempered with restraint and objectivity.



I can see where you're coming from, and I'm not above admitting that I'm reaching for a little insight in the mere thirty-four lines he was graced with; what I can grasp is just that he comes across as having a bit of a temper and that he's rather respectful to Raiden. I know full well those are characteristics and don't constitute a character, and they're not much. But they're something, even if small.

The overlying problem is thus: I wouldn't argue that MK9's storyline really goes out of its way in the first place to try and establish every single character's personality, just select people, and least of all side characters. They just sort of take the preexisting archetypes that we're familiar with and run with them. For those of us who've been familiar with the series for a long time, we take what we see and apply it to what we know already; and we never really knew anything about Smoke so the problem is magnified in his case.

You could apply this logic to Stryker or epecially Kabal, too (each of who also have about thirty-something lines); I don't think Story mode does either any big favors as a character, and it's never helped that Kabal's characterization's always been wildly inconsistent from game to game. And they don't have the burden Smoke has of having a fanbase who in large part has always wanted to see his human side - personality being twice as important for him due to his plotline revolving around it being taken away from him.

That's why I prefer to look to his bio and origin as where he really lucked out for new info. It wasn't the new info we really wanted, but it was something.

NRS's writers plain and simply did not realize the opportunity that they had to create basically a brand new character and imbue him with personality where none existed before. And, sadly, as a side character it likely wasn't a priority to really make him stand out from the rest of the cast. The major exception I can really think of to the rule is probably Nightwolf.

Right on I agree with this wholeheartedly.

This element still can be reintroduced to his character, if they make him actively aware of his status as enenra. Therefore, he once again will be in situation where he'd like to be regular human, but instead he is something else.

Though, this time it can handled beter rather than making Smoke plot decive in someone's basement.

Precisely my reaction when we first saw his ending.

I understand...but discussing MK9 is like picking a scab for me. Since I'm not letting the wound ever heal, I'm still just as angry as I was in 2011.

Making jokes takes the edge off. At least, I try to make them sound like jokes. Calling Smoke retarded is probably only funny to me.



See...I don't really agree there. I think it did a good job establishing almost every single character in the game. I think Kabal and Stryker DO come across as having actual character in the game.

Smoke's lack of personality specifically sticks out as offensive to me because they managed to establish Sheeva's concept of and devotion to "honor" even though she barely appears, they got across Reptile's sad-sack submissiveness without giving him a single line of dialogue (in fact, the lack of speech helps establish his lesser intelligence and animalistic nature), even Baraka has SOMETHING to him, demonstrating intelligence and military discipline compared to his Tarkatan flunkies who don't know not to point a shotgun at their own face.

And yet Smoke, who you play as for four fights, who speaks frequently throughout the second tournament, is a complete blank slate.

Yeah, some of those characters already HAD those personalities (In Sheeva's case, she's borrowing from MK4/MKDA Goro) so it wasn't much work putting them on-screen and anyone writing Smoke has the problem of having to invent him wholecloth...but Jade didn't have all that sassy-black-girl "too easy" stuff going on before. Kabal before was just "Guy who talks like Darth Vader". Sektor and Cyrax never had human personalities. Effort was put into establishing these characters for the first time ever. NONE was put into Smoke.

The only guys as undeveloped as Smoke is are Kintaro and the DLC, and the DLC aren't even IN Story Mode. (And Motaro I suppose, but that's like complaining the Masked Guards have no character. He's not really IN this story either.)

As far as your comment on Nightwolf, I would argue his personality wasn't invented by MK9, it already existed by virtue of it being the same cliché personality every Indian Shaman has in all fiction ever, and he already had speaking lines with the same temperament in MKD Konquest (not that that's a bad thing, it fits, just pointing out that it's pre-existing info). All MK9 did was give him more screentime and importance than a casual audience would expect from what's perceived to be a minor and unpopular character - but not more than an experienced MK3 fan should have expected, because he was "The backup Raiden" in 1995.

Of what exactly am I ignorant of concerning the Tobias/Boon years?

Reading the rest of the post you just quoted would answer that question, man. Come on now.

Personally i loved Smoke since day 1, and was really happy he was turned into a human, and honestly i truly hope they dive deeper and explore this whole Enera thing. The MK9 story was all over the place, and didn't really please what i would call the hardcore fanbase.

I did wish they gave him more then what Shadloo basically called 32 lines, but i also think the reason why most characters got such small pieces is because the structure of chapters as the story is shown is a flawed one. It feels like you are watching a sitcom, you only got 22 mins before it all ends.

I hope to see Smoke return, i Hope he returns as human.

his variations would be cool too 1 is human 2 is robot 3 enera I am sure that way all fans would be pleased. ( for play styles i mean)

And i would love for Sub-Zero and Smoke to team up once more, and remake the linkuei, there's a lot of potential for his character, i hope NRS takes advantage.

I make no secret that MK3-MK4 era was bad and bland design-wise.

I am ore likely speaking about the fact that Tobias never did really go further down into researching backgrounds for ideas than middle schoolers.


I mean the amount of depth the characters had was basically on par with an avertage fanfic. They didn't put story first, they wanted an adequate reason for a character and that is that.

Though they tried something with MKMSZ and MK4, but that game had overall bigger problems.

'K, let's see what else is there?


It's like your opinion, which is not a fact. I know many old fans of the series who were pleased with MK9 story.


You do now that variations do not transform characters into something else, right? Just checking if you was up to date with last news.


And once again - it's your opinion, not a fact.

@redsumac

Well let me rephrase i suppose, maybe certain parts of the story people weren't to keen on in mk9, maybe it's a selfish notion, but i wish it was longer. I do understand that because of money, and various other things maybe they couldn't do that.

And yeah on the variations i know it doesn't transform the characters, i was just saying that it would be a cool thing if NRS could pull that off, you know being able to say like "hey i feel like playing cyber this round" and that way you get a Smoke in a cyber skin and like a teleport punch and and smoking else maybe. Again all i meant by that is that it would be a cool idea, and i know its doubtful NRS would do it, but just an idea.

Also sorry i am not sure how to quote individual posts.

Well your opinion on the design aesthetic has nothing to do with the depth of the lore or the fact that Tobias is ON RECORD saying he always had more story intended than he could fit on the screen due to the limitations of the medium at the time.



Oh god, this is you complaining that the fictional versions of things don't line up with real life versions again, isn't it?

Dude, STOP DOING THAT. Keep your boner for IRL history to yourself, it's not relevant to the discussion and no one cares if you think Liu Kang should practice buddhism instead of worshipping Raiden.

With all due respect, the Lin Kuei really needs to be dumped once and for all. It's kept both of them from developing further as characters.

That doesn't make any sense... how is being part of an organization preventing characters from evolving?

Because it's been 22 years and he needs to strike out on his own (with or without Smoke) once and for all. His involvement with the LK has gotten as stale as Scorpion's constant quest for revenge. It'd be a nice change of pace.

That was why I loved his MK3 storyline. But then he went right back to them again in the 3D installments. Plus, it gave us a dud character in Frost.

Well, after the original Lin Kuei's fall, Subbie did go out on his own. He rebuild the Lin Kuei as its Grandmaster, but he also went to discover his heritage as a Cryomancer.

Not really. I can and do like some things they have come up with. Hell, if they could come up with something really rooted without resorting to real life equivalencies I would truly be happy. Though this did not come through since I skipped on that.

HELL, it is practically my job right now as a publishing writer since we are working on an anthology in a -gasp- made up fantasy world not reminiscent of medieval Europe.

On to the problem: the problem is not that they lack anything that calls back to history. I wish they had. The problem is that they are FUCKING BLAND.



+ it's fun watching you ramble.

Chrome, Sumac is already trolling Razor... we don't need you doing so as well. Behave, guys. Play nice.

Speaks volumes that we can be trolled by this. Nevermind the ad hominem attacks.

And you are cocksure of this?

I don't like idea of Smoke being ninja-cyborg-demon all at the same time. Just stick with one thing and make it good. Smoke in MK9 gameplay-wise was awesome. So, I don't see why they should transform him into something completely new. Just build up on his awesome foundation from MK9. Besides, Smoke already is a demon.

If you want to quote post, press "Add Original" button under the window with your text.


Rare case, when we absolutely agree on something.

Every "trait" that anyone has attributed to his MK9 portrayal in this thread, like insulting an opponent or accidentally starting a fight with someone who's not really any enemy, is also demonstrated by almost every other speaking character in MK9, MKvsDCU, Armageddon, Shaolin Monks, and Deception.

So yeah.